Honestly, we should just, like, go to China and copy everything they do. An actual bureaucracy with actual exams to appoint officials with actual merit (sometimes)! An actual tax collection system with paper records! Maps with grids! The wheelbarrow! Scissors! A compass!
 
Sorry for interrupting the much more interesting history discussion, but I wanted to ask @Telamon: Which of our Traits can we expect to apply boni to our talk with the Consul, Scipio Asiaticus? Just Orator I or also Old Blood? Old Blood's description is a bit vague when it comes to interactions with non-optimates Patricians.

If anyone else was wondering, interaction rolls in the past were modified with the Gift of Minerva (+1) and our Charisma Rank (+2). So, if we get at least some boni out of his Patrician heritage, then we should be looking at an overall +5 boni to our roll.
 
Sorry for interrupting the much more interesting history discussion, but I wanted to ask @Telamon: Which of our Traits can we expect to apply boni to our talk with the Consul, Scipio Asiaticus? Just Orator I or also Old Blood? Old Blood's description is a bit vague when it comes to interactions with non-optimates Patricians.

If anyone else was wondering, interaction rolls in the past were modified with the Gift of Minerva (+1) and our Charisma Rank (+2). So, if we get at least some boni out of his Patrician heritage, then we should be looking at an overall +5 boni to our roll.

Both Orator and Old Blood would apply, yes.
 
So how hard would it be to pass a law to change the composition of the juries someday? Removing the complete dominance of Equites where juries are concerned seems like a good first step to stop what they are doing to the provinces.
 
Got a quick question again, what are the current borders of the Republic in 84 BC?
 
Honestly, we should just, like, go to China and copy everything they do. An actual bureaucracy with actual exams to appoint officials with actual merit (sometimes)! An actual tax collection system with paper records! Maps with grids! The wheelbarrow! Scissors! A compass!
Don't you dare bring chopsticks to Europe!
So question, why where Romans so bad at boats. Like it legit seems like they had relearn how to build a navy SEVERAL times.
Not enough competition plus they are focusing on their infantry. You can't pool unlimited resources into everything.
 
So question, why where Romans so bad at boats. Like it legit seems like they had relearn how to build a navy SEVERAL times.

Leave to the sons of Carthage
The rudder and the oar;
Leave to the Greek his marble Nymphs
And scrolls of wordy lore.
Thine, Roman, is the pilum:
Roman, the sword is thine.
The even trench, the bristling mound,
The legion's ordered line


Romans liked swords. Romans did not like water.

Got a quick question again, what are the current borders of the Republic in 84 BC?

 
This is a lot later down the line but I'd love to see us conquer a large swathe of land. Maybe Dalmatia and the Balkans, or Germania, or maybe sack the Persians. Not really interested in Gaul, that's happened in our OTL, hell I'd love to go into Sarmatia just see to how difficult it would be to go against the nomads.
 
This is a lot later down the line but I'd love to see us conquer a large swathe of land. Maybe Dalmatia and the Balkans, or Germania, or maybe sack the Persians. Not really interested in Gaul, that's happened in our OTL, hell I'd love to go into Sarmatia just see to how difficult it would be to go against the nomads.
How do we conquer Germania if we don't go through Gaul first?
 
Across the Alps of course!
With our logistics skills? We will make Alexander proud!!

Edit: Speaking of him, since Mithridates was acclaimed as "Ho Megas", did he get the trait, too?
Ho Megas: You are Alexander. Your armies have marched from one end of the world to the next. From the waters of the Hellespont to the rivers of the Indus, men know your name and tremble. In a thousand tongues, they call you Great. In a thousand tongues they praise your name. You are the mightiest military commander in a hundred generations, a conqueror to shame Xerxes and Gilgamesh. The winged goddess of victory herself bows at your feet in awe. Truly, there will never be another like you. (+3 to all military actions, +4 to all diplomacy/intimidation actions, +5 Reputation, +1 to all governance actions)
With the appropriate flavour text of course.
 
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With our logistics skills? We will make Alexander proud!!
We just have to appeal to the same gods as Hannibal! Our father already laid the foundation for that :V
On a (bit) more serious note though, crossing the significantly lower eastern Alps into Noricum and expanding the Roman frontier to the Danube should be within the realm of possibility. Why Rome would want to expand in that direction as of this point in time is a different question...
 
With our logistics skills? We will make Alexander proud!!

Edit: Speaking of him, since Mithridates was acclaimed as "Ho Megas", did he get the trait, too?

With the appropriate flavour text of course.

I really hope he does, even a slim chance of Mithy creaming both Sulla and Marius would be fantastic.
 
Omake: The Definition of Love
For you, and my stupid shipping self, a very out of character what-if built on conversations that most certainly didn't happen.


The Definition of Love​


"Father, what is love?" The question comes from your son, Quintus Cingulatus Atellus, and it catches you wholly off guard.

"And what has prompted this question?" Your response is guarded, wary. There are a number of reasons your son would ask you this, and few of them are good. Perhaps a trap laid by your wife. Perhaps he questions his own loyalty to the family. Perhaps in your attempts to teach him self-sufficiency, you have instead taught him of cruelty.

"Well, Cingulla says that you don't love her because-"

You cut him off quickly in relief. "Your sister speaks rashly. I love all my children, and when she is older, she will see that that too, comes from a place of love."

"But what is love?" The root of his query is addressed, but your son's question itself remains unanswered. That persistence will serve him well in the future. But in order for it to do so, you must reward it in the present.

"Do you believe me when I say I love you?" You smile at the confusion in his eyes, clearly not anticipating that you would interrogate him.

"Of course. You're my father." he says, as if that explains all. He will not be so naïve forever, so you enjoy it while you can.

"That is love. Love is trust, that when someone tells you something, they are telling you truth. Trust that, regardless of what they do in the moment, in the end they will do what is right. It is why I love you, and your sister, and Rome itself. Because I trust them, and they in turn trust me."

"Is that why you married mother? Because you trusted her?" Ah, so he noticed the exemption you made.

"In large part, but there is more to romantic love than the love between a father and his child, or a man and his country. Trust is a vital component, but physical attraction is important as well. The other person being unmarried is usually a sign to curb your emotions, though the heart wants what the heart wants. But most importantly…" you pause for dramatic effect.

"What's most important?!" Your son seems almost desperate for the answer, demanding it with the impatience of youth. You oblige his curiosity.

"The most important aspect of romantic love… is passion, in all things. When the lovemaking is fierce," your son's face twists in disgust, but you forge ahead anyways, "you have found a good woman. When the arguments are fierce, you have found a good wife."


XXX

"The Grey Lady is a vengeful god, Roman, as vengeful as the Samnites ourselves. Should her place of worship be fouled, her revenge will be thousandfold. The land will rot, the skies will bleed poison, and there will be no good thing to eat or drink. Death shall come to Samnium." Visellia pauses her tirade a moment to look directly at you. "You can trust me when I say that."

That give you, Quintus Cingulatus Atellus, pause. Horrified, confused pause as you desperately try to remember why that sounds familiar. Tercerus snorts to fill the silence. "Pleasant god you've got there."

You look down at her and much to your shock cannot deny a physical attraction. She is no Helen of Troy, but she is young, and more fetching than most women you've seen in Rome. Her white garb lends her a sense of purity. It makes the grime and muck hanging off her from the battle seems superficial and temporary.

"This cannot be what father meant." you whisper under your breath. You raise your voice to address the priestess and test your theory. "You are right. Death will come to Samnium, for Rome has tasked me to bring it. If rebellions worship gods that give them hope against the inevitability of the Republic, then it is surely my duty to cast those gods down."

She wastes no time in firing back. "Is Mephitis not also a god in Rome? You would spit the face of your own gods?"

"A minor god in Rome, though even if it were a temple to Jupiter himself, he would not frown upon it's defilement. Aequum Tuticum rejected Roman citizenship, so any god they worship in is by definition not Roman."

"I should not expect a Roman dog to know theology. Is the worship of a god bound by the borders of nations and rule of kings? Of course not. The gods are worshipped in different ways by all, but they are the same gods. And they are vengeful gods. Especially Mephitis." She spits her goddesses' name with as much venom as she can muster.

"A goddess of vengeance should appreciate what we do tonight then. Or does she view the murder of messengers of peace too grave an affront?" She at least has the decency to look ashamed of her chief's actions. Unlike him, she apparently is no fool, and knew exactly what such an action would invite from the Roman legions.

Still, when she brings her eyes back up to meet yours, there is fire in them. "Then exact vengeance upon the people who have wronged you, as is her way. I can bear no objection to that. But a holy place is a holy place, regardless of who worships there or what they do. Leave the temple be, and leave me to tend to it."

A request such as that ought to be delivered on bent knee in a voice full of desperation. Instead she stands tall and proud, not once breaking eye contact with the man who holds her life in his hands. Much to your chagrin, you are the first to look away. "Damn it." You mutter. "This cannot have been what he meant."

Your mind races, full of stories and myths of mortals ignoring signs that seems so obvious, and suffering the repercussions for them. Of gods demanding sacrifice, being rejected, and visiting vengeance upon them. Every trait your father had described is present. Every one. Yet you know that this is inviting disaster.

With a heavy sigh, you accept that this is what you're doing, regardless of how awful an idea it seems. "Roma can show mercy." You watch as her eyes light up with hope and relief. Yours narrow you as you continue. "Rome can show mercy, to Roman citizens. Do you consider yourself Roman?"

Visellia obviously understands her choices, but you can see that understanding does not make the crossroads easier. If she holds to her identity as a Samnite, then you will not hesitate to kill her and loot the temple before burning it to the ground. If she renounces her nationality and embraces Rome, she lives and the temple she maintains will stand. Honestly, it should be an easy choice, any assurances she gives you have no true weight, and you don't think for a second she truly sees herself as Roman. But words have power, even if they're lies.

"I…" she hesitates to swallow her pride. "I am a loyal citizen of Rome." You're pretty sure that you were a more convincing liar when you were a toddler, but at this point with Samnites, you'll take what you can get.

"You heard her Tercerus. No fair woman of Rome deserves to be treated this way. Call the men out of the temple, and return any obviously religious paraphernalia. The gods deserve respect. The people however… they'll pay for their rebellion with their valuables. Leave them their lives."

Both Tercerus and Visellia are stunned for a moment. The former as he processes your orders, deciphering your flowery language to something he can convey to the troops with ease. The latter however, seems more confused by your compliment than your mercy.

"Understood." replies Tercerus after a moment before taking off to inform the troops and oversee a structured looting, leaving you alone with the raven-haired priestess.

"I suppose even a Roman can make the right decision every once in a while." Ah, there's that venom you've grown so accustomed to. Humility brought about by death threats is only temporary it seems.

"Truly, I am as stunned by your gratitude as I am by your beauty." you snark back. Again, she seems caught off guard by your casual compliments.

"What is it you hope to gain with such comments?" The suspicion is clear in her voice, as is her confusion. She knows you are after something here, but she has no clue what, or even why.

"Is it so wrong to state the truth?" you ask with a smirk.

He eyes narrow. "I will have my revenge on Rome. Regardless of what you think."

"We shall see, won't we? But I think there is a different fate in store, and I look forward to seeing which of us is right."



AN: So, her name in the original update is Visellia Mertia, but it's Visellia Tertia in all future updates. Which is right, or is it another weird Roman naming thing? Or did we manage to offend a different priestess of Mephitis at some point?
 
For you, and my stupid shipping self, a very out of character what-if built on conversations that most certainly didn't happen.


The Definition of Love​


"Father, what is love?" The question comes from your son, Quintus Cingulatus Atellus, and it catches you wholly off guard.

"And what has prompted this question?" Your response is guarded, wary. There are a number of reasons your son would ask you this, and few of them are good. Perhaps a trap laid by your wife. Perhaps he questions his own loyalty to the family. Perhaps in your attempts to teach him self-sufficiency, you have instead taught him of cruelty.

"Well, Cingulla says that you don't love her because-"

You cut him off quickly in relief. "Your sister speaks rashly. I love all my children, and when she is older, she will see that that too, comes from a place of love."

"But what is love?" The root of his query is addressed, but your son's question itself remains unanswered. That persistence will serve him well in the future. But in order for it to do so, you must reward it in the present.

"Do you believe me when I say I love you?" You smile at the confusion in his eyes, clearly not anticipating that you would interrogate him.

"Of course. You're my father." he says, as if that explains all. He will not be so naïve forever, so you enjoy it while you can.

"That is love. Love is trust, that when someone tells you something, they are telling you truth. Trust that, regardless of what they do in the moment, in the end they will do what is right. It is why I love you, and your sister, and Rome itself. Because I trust them, and they in turn trust me."

"Is that why you married mother? Because you trusted her?" Ah, so he noticed the exemption you made.

"In large part, but there is more to romantic love than the love between a father and his child, or a man and his country. Trust is a vital component, but physical attraction is important as well. The other person being unmarried is usually a sign to curb your emotions, though the heart wants what the heart wants. But most importantly…" you pause for dramatic effect.

"What's most important?!" Your son seems almost desperate for the answer, demanding it with the impatience of youth. You oblige his curiosity.

"The most important aspect of romantic love… is passion, in all things. When the lovemaking is fierce," your son's face twists in disgust, but you forge ahead anyways, "you have found a good woman. When the arguments are fierce, you have found a good wife."


XXX

"The Grey Lady is a vengeful god, Roman, as vengeful as the Samnites ourselves. Should her place of worship be fouled, her revenge will be thousandfold. The land will rot, the skies will bleed poison, and there will be no good thing to eat or drink. Death shall come to Samnium." Visellia pauses her tirade a moment to look directly at you. "You can trust me when I say that."

That give you, Quintus Cingulatus Atellus, pause. Horrified, confused pause as you desperately try to remember why that sounds familiar. Tercerus snorts to fill the silence. "Pleasant god you've got there."

You look down at her and much to your shock cannot deny a physical attraction. She is no Helen of Troy, but she is young, and more fetching than most women you've seen in Rome. Her white garb lends her a sense of purity. It makes the grime and muck hanging off her from the battle seems superficial and temporary.

"This cannot be what father meant." you whisper under your breath. You raise your voice to address the priestess and test your theory. "You are right. Death will come to Samnium, for Rome has tasked me to bring it. If rebellions worship gods that give them hope against the inevitability of the Republic, then it is surely my duty to cast those gods down."

She wastes no time in firing back. "Is Mephitis not also a god in Rome? You would spit the face of your own gods?"

"A minor god in Rome, though even if it were a temple to Jupiter himself, he would not frown upon it's defilement. Aequum Tuticum rejected Roman citizenship, so any god they worship in is by definition not Roman."

"I should not expect a Roman dog to know theology. Is the worship of a god bound by the borders of nations and rule of kings? Of course not. The gods are worshipped in different ways by all, but they are the same gods. And they are vengeful gods. Especially Mephitis." She spits her goddesses' name with as much venom as she can muster.

"A goddess of vengeance should appreciate what we do tonight then. Or does she view the murder of messengers of peace too grave an affront?" She at least has the decency to look ashamed of her chief's actions. Unlike him, she apparently is no fool, and knew exactly what such an action would invite from the Roman legions.

Still, when she brings her eyes back up to meet yours, there is fire in them. "Then exact vengeance upon the people who have wronged you, as is her way. I can bear no objection to that. But a holy place is a holy place, regardless of who worships there or what they do. Leave the temple be, and leave me to tend to it."

A request such as that ought to be delivered on bent knee in a voice full of desperation. Instead she stands tall and proud, not once breaking eye contact with the man who holds her life in his hands. Much to your chagrin, you are the first to look away. "Damn it." You mutter. "This cannot have been what he meant."

Your mind races, full of stories and myths of mortals ignoring signs that seems so obvious, and suffering the repercussions for them. Of gods demanding sacrifice, being rejected, and visiting vengeance upon them. Every trait your father had described is present. Every one. Yet you know that this is inviting disaster.

With a heavy sigh, you accept that this is what you're doing, regardless of how awful an idea it seems. "Roma can show mercy." You watch as her eyes light up with hope and relief. Yours narrow you as you continue. "Rome can show mercy, to Roman citizens. Do you consider yourself Roman?"

Visellia obviously understands her choices, but you can see that understanding does not make the crossroads easier. If she holds to her identity as a Samnite, then you will not hesitate to kill her and loot the temple before burning it to the ground. If she renounces her nationality and embraces Rome, she lives and the temple she maintains will stand. Honestly, it should be an easy choice, any assurances she gives you have no true weight, and you don't think for a second she truly sees herself as Roman. But words have power, even if they're lies.

"I…" she hesitates to swallow her pride. "I am a loyal citizen of Rome." You're pretty sure that you were a more convincing liar when you were a toddler, but at this point with Samnites, you'll take what you can get.

"You heard her Tercerus. No fair woman of Rome deserves to be treated this way. Call the men out of the temple, and return any obviously religious paraphernalia. The gods deserve respect. The people however… they'll pay for their rebellion with their valuables. Leave them their lives."

Both Tercerus and Visellia are stunned for a moment. The former as he processes your orders, deciphering your flowery language to something he can convey to the troops with ease. The latter however, seems more confused by your compliment than your mercy.

"Understood." replies Tercerus after a moment before taking off to inform the troops and oversee a structured looting, leaving you alone with the raven-haired priestess.

"I suppose even a Roman can make the right decision every once in a while." Ah, there's that venom you've grown so accustomed to. Humility brought about by death threats is only temporary it seems.

"Truly, I am as stunned by your gratitude as I am by your beauty." you snark back. Again, she seems caught off guard by your casual compliments.

"What is it you hope to gain with such comments?" The suspicion is clear in her voice, as is her confusion. She knows you are after something here, but she has no clue what, or even why.

"Is it so wrong to state the truth?" you ask with a smirk.

He eyes narrow. "I will have my revenge on Rome. Regardless of what you think."

"We shall see, won't we? But I think there is a different fate in store, and I look forward to seeing which of us is right."



AN: So, her name in the original update is Visellia Mertia, but it's Visellia Tertia in all future updates. Which is right, or is it another weird Roman naming thing? Or did we manage to offend a different priestess of Mephitis at some point?

Tertia.

Telamon errs sometimes.

Anyhow, quite a nice fic, even if it is blasphemous.:V

100 XP to Charisma, and 100 to Intrigue.
 
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Leave to the sons of Carthage
The rudder and the oar;
Leave to the Greek his marble Nymphs
And scrolls of wordy lore.
Thine, Roman, is the pilum:
Roman, the sword is thine.
The even trench, the bristling mound,
The legion's ordered line


Romans liked swords. Romans did not like water.



To make sure I understand the geography of war correctly, where is Mithridates' army right now? In Pontus or somewhere in Asia away from the coast?
 
For you, and my stupid shipping self, a very out of character what-if built on conversations that most certainly didn't happen.
Splendid, thank you. Very entertaining.:D

Truth be told, I should probably also write something, I'm thinking either Scaevola hearing of Atellus' speech or discussing him with another high ranking Sullan partisan, but I'm having trouble starting.

Edit: Might it be because my last attempt went unnoticed? ;)

Also, update:

Stats:
Military: Accomplished (13) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (6793/10000) to Rank 14
Charisma: Accomplished (11) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) --(3300/10,000) to Rank 12
Stewardship: Poor (4) -- (Levels 4) (-2 Modifier)-- (1200/4000) to Rank 5 (No Modifier)
Intelligence: Renowned (15) -- (Levels 15-17) (+4 Modifier) -- (390/15000[?]) to Rank 16
Education: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (700/10000) to Rank 11
Subterfuge: Average (7) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (100/7000) to Rank 8 (+1 Modifier)
Skills:
Combat: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (4230/10000) to Rank 11
Oratory: Accomplished (11) --(Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (2326/10000) to Rank 12
Command: Proficient (8) -- (Levels 8-9) (+1 Modifier) -- (1796/8000) to Rank 9
Engineering: Abysmal (1) -- (Levels 0-1) (-6 Modifier) -- (0/1000) to Rank 2 (-4 Modifier)
Logistics: Very Poor (2) -- (Levels 2-3) (-4 Modifier) -- (140/2000) to Rank 3
Law: Proficient (9) -- (Levels 8-9) (+1 Modifier) -- (4535/9000) to Rank 10 (+2 Modifier)
Philosophy: Average (5) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (374/5,000) to Rank 6
Administration: Average (5) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (4250/5000) to Rank 6
Diplomacy: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (120/10000) to Rank 11
 
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To make sure I understand the geography of war correctly, where is Mithridates' army right now? In Pontus or somewhere in Asia away from the coast?

Mithridates' main army, comprised of his Pontic forces and Armenian allies, is in Pontus, having just pushed Marius into Roman-held Bithynia. His position has recovered, and he once again holds much of Galacia and Cappadocia.

Mithridates' other army, under the control of his general Archaelaus, is in Greece squaring off against Sulla. Ironically, their position in Macedonia (smack-dab between the two Roman armies) means that if Marius and Sulla put aside their differences, they could easily crush him and bring an end to the war — of course, being Marius and Sulla, they will do no such thing. Their position , cut off from the Pontic heartland as they are, is not exactly great, but the local Thracian tribes and Macedonian cities are still giving them support and supplies, and Archaelaus has rallied many Thracians to his cause, swelling his ranks.

From Atellus' understanding of the situation, Mithridates' best hope is that the strife in Rome continues and that he can exploit this to defeat the Romans piecemeal, then link up his armies to drive them out of Asia for good. OTL, when Marius and Cinna died, there was no real reason for the Marian legions in Asia not to join up with Sulla, which they promptly did, and wiped the floor with Mithridates for the better part of two decades.

EDIT: Sulla's main goal is to defeat Mithridates quickly and then unify Rome — the dramatic final showdown that Marius seems to want isn't in either of their interests at the moment. Surrounded by enemy armies, a conflict between Romans right now will probably just mean that Mithridates can swoop in to take out the victor.
 
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