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Congregation of Despair (Mafia - Second Attempt)

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Alright, I have some things to respond to, but they'll be better served by me responding when I can actually write out something worthwhile. For now:

@Nictis

Apologies. I missed when you said you were at work. I admittedly seem to have a tendency to jump on people when they have perfectly good RL explanations. That does clear you of suspicion there.

I may also be able to shed some light on the SK issue. This may be one of my aha's that leads to a pointless claim and no useful information, so I'm going to actually give it consideration first instead of going "feels useful, postpostpost."
 
Broken Base said:
You said that about me, true, but you also felt free to just randomly toss it out there right before deadline? What is even the point of that? If you don't want to follow through on it, why would you say it? What was it supposed to add to the discussion other than cast shade at the other person who had a vote at the moment, but you don't want them to be lynched, no siree? Or, well, you don't actually say that. You just say that you aren't going to vote them. After saying that you found them suspicious and when pressured not being willing to specify. Also you have been consistently suspicious about me since Day 1 and yet you had absolutely nothing to list? Nothing at all? Not even some vague feelings or broad senses of things that you find off, to the point that you don't have anything in mind when you're asked about it? And this feeling is something that you never mentioned before for some reason? This feeling is something you don't even mention when you're joining a wagon with them, as is the case with Absum? And you've been suspicious of them since Day 1, and the only argument you raised all game is one you conceded on? Like, on some level you have to forgive me for being skeptical. Give me one person I did this with, one person that I was willing to vote alongside without any sort of caveat (I freely admit that I'm voting with Q right now, but I find you more suspicious), one person that I mentioned multiple days in and say that I've been suspicious of them all along but can't explain why

And that's just with me. With Nani all we get is



And then you try to deadline lynch him without giving any rationale, when your previous post on Nani was... literally nothing? I haven't looked through your posts, I confess, but searching is turning up literally no posts mentioning Nani before now? Where did this suspicion come from to the point that you were willing to vote on it at deadline, but you have been suspicious of me since D1 and don't want to vote for me until you get the details nailed down? If you actually made a case on NAni today that'd be something at least, but you haven't explained what even made you suspicious of him in the first place from my tired eyes.

Like I'm trying to get other people's opinions and have people point out flaws in my arguments, since I'm worried I'm conf-biasing here, but I really am not finding much that can convince me that all this isn't suspicious as hell.

Now I'm going to actually try and get some sleep.
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At that point in the day, I was, as I said, jetlagged and faded. I had grown increasingly doubtful of my Absum pick. However, I was worried it was too late to go for a change, and then, wouldn't you know it, Nictis pointed out that they actually had swung lynches in the last 30 minutes, so I assumed that it was somewhat normal to change votes late.
Dovah said:
Yeah, and it broke your post too.

Copied here:

Alright. I'm sus of 1KBestK.

I'm more sus of Nani. At one point during the reread I went "Oh, they claimed to catch scum, it's all good."

But what's something we haven't seen in a while? GM made fakeclaims. Of course, here, it isn't a fakeclaim--I believe Nani's role. I just think the Princess is a vampire.

This isn't based off Night actions, but instead off my read of their posts and tone and how they're interacting with the lynch.

I'm unfamiliar with Absum, so I can't weigh in there. I'm open to a 1KBestK lynch, but it isn't as vital, I think, as Nani, and I have a good feeling about this scumread, whereas 1K's explanation is at least throwing some chaff up to mess with my scumseekers.

[X] Lynch Nanimani
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I then read this post, and agreed with the general feeling Dovah had. Their feelings about Naninami lined up pretty well with my own. That's why I changed to Nami. I had mentioned Base because I had a similar feeling, but was more hesitant and regretted voicing it because, as I said, I wasn't sure, but this is mafia so you can't delete things. I'm generally more suspicious of Base because I tended to read them as town too hard my first few games, and have over corrected, I think. I was exhausted, faded, had just woken up, but didn't want to vote for Absum who I no longer thought was scum, so I jumped on another poster's wagon whose reasoning I agreed with.
 
I'll be honest, I'm starting to like 1K and I'm... Fairly neutral on Terrabrand, but Dovah still has my attention. Haven't had time to do my dive yet though.

[x] Null
 
Nanimani said:
Happery
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Again, 2 Rs, not 1 R.

So, originally, my list of 'people to get' was QT, then maybe Oshha depending on results from that, and then reconfigure with new knowledge. Then, of course, we have the whole big messy thing and that dropped QT down the list and Oshha more down the list, but it's left me without a convincing feeling of who is on top of the list. I don't really feel Terrabrand is sus right now, but Nictis left me feeling more sus after the last page or two... except I'm not really sure why I feel that which makes me double-think myself. Need to reread again and see if I can figure out why or get the feeling to go away.

Nictis said:
1KBestK: Lean towards scum because of their interactions around Dimensional Guy
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Could you expand on this maybe? I don't particularly remember this and a quick scan of their posts through the who posted function isn't being enlightening. I wasn't feeling they were general suspicious relating from their reactions during the whole town color thing, but if you have a good argument relating to connection with scum I'd like to here it, given they have most of the votes on them right now.
 
Happerry said:
So, originally, my list of 'people to get' was QT, then maybe Oshha depending on results from that, and then reconfigure with new knowledge. Then, of course, we have the whole big messy thing and that dropped QT down the list and Oshha more down the list, but it's left me without a convincing feeling of who is on top of the list. I don't really feel Terrabrand is sus right now, but Nictis left me feeling more sus after the last page or two... except I'm not really sure why I feel that which makes me double-think myself. Need to reread again and see if I can figure out why or get the feeling to go away.
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I may be able to clarify that.

See, I slept on it and have cooled off, but while I was distracted from this by being mad over Nictis play...

The very thing that was enraging me is also scummy, not just frustrating.

Rather than focusing his case on the things he did mention like me 'fishing for claims', which is indeed probably sub-optimal as town and could be blatantly culty, he kept trying to play it like I was going hard against Nani even after I repeatedly clarified that, you know, I was overtrusting power claims and trying to compensate.

This could easily be scum!Nictis trying to power through a lynch by baffling with bullshit, possibly legit thinking I'm Other!Scum and hoping for town cred, possibly hoping to eliminate a problematic role.

And, indeed, if he is scum, it may be his motive for shutting down claim fishing is not feeling like he has a solid enough one yet.

I could see Cult!Nictis or SK!Nictis, though leaning SK, but regardless, this, upon calmer consideration, is my strongest scum read. (Part of why I'm leaning SK is that if he is SK and susceptible to my roleblock, he would want the chance of me catching him on that basis eliminated as possible, regardless of whether he thinks I am town or cult)

So.

[x] Lynch Nictis
 
1KBestK said:
At that point in the day, I was, as I said, jetlagged and faded. I had grown increasingly doubtful of my Absum pick. However, I was worried it was too late to go for a change, and then, wouldn't you know it, Nictis pointed out that they actually had swung lynches in the last 30 minutes, so I assumed that it was somewhat normal to change votes late.

I then read this post, and agreed with the general feeling Dovah had. Their feelings about Naninami lined up pretty well with my own. That's why I changed to Nami. I had mentioned Base because I had a similar feeling, but was more hesitant and regretted voicing it because, as I said, I wasn't sure, but this is mafia so you can't delete things. I'm generally more suspicious of Base because I tended to read them as town too hard my first few games, and have over corrected, I think. I was exhausted, faded, had just woken up, but didn't want to vote for Absum who I no longer thought was scum, so I jumped on another poster's wagon whose reasoning I agreed with.
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Alright. Like, I still find you suspect and you'll probably have my vote until I can get the time and energy into digging into the hundreds of posts people have made this game, which ideally will be today but realistically be tomorrow, but honestly I'm not going to convince you you're scum, and this back-and-forth is keeping both of us from contributing to the game in other ways. So I'm just going to leave it here and leave it up for town to decide, I think.

It'd help if you use the time to really work out suspicions and make arguments, that could help me have a change of heart regarding you, I think.

@Nanimani- Nah I was suspicious of DG, I didn't think you really were. But you were also a claimed watcher that people were starting to get suspicious of, so.
 
Honestly Terra v. Nictis is still reading as Town v. Town to me. Dovah seems like an interesting avenue to explore so when I can work up the effort to dig through over 60 posts I'll probably take a look at them next.
 
Dovah did claim that I was cult immune when I didn't make that claim and in fact said that I was still vulnerable to being culted if directly targeted. It might just be him exaggerating again, but it is incorrect statement that they made.
 
Cyricubed said:
As they had been ignited they are just as fast only a pile of ash in the center of a ring of blood that didn't get burned away...their queen forever defiled and gone...once beloved then twisted into a dark abomination against life itself...the group shuffles wordlessly back to the dining hall...some muffled sobs heard within the congregation no one bothers to question who...all remember her for how she was...and dread what she has done in the last few hours.
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Ah, I did misread the flavor a bit. So DG was actually a recruit, probably N1 since it'd be a weird N2 choice. This means

1. We most probably have 3 cultists and one can still recruit, which means that we're still at lylo
2. Since DG wasn't an original cultist, I wouldn't say that my argument against 1K is completely undone, but its power is lessened somewhat and I want to look elsewhere. If nothing else, there are two other ones to catch.

[X] Null
 
I think Nami is town, QT might still be town and I think Terrabrand is town. Not sure on anyone else. I'm suspicious of BrokenBase and Nictis, but as the prominent vets we had since the start, I feel that at least one of them is scum, either from starting that way or being culted. I think that 1K is either cult or town, but cannot be the serial killer, but might be the town killer. I also think that Dovah is either cult or town, but also cannot be the serial killer or town killer.
 
Honestly the amount of people agreeing that 1K could be/is probably scum is making me skeptical of them being cult too; there isn't a wagon on her at least, but the amount of people going "sure she is totally suspicious" is disconcerting.

Oshha said:
I'm suspicious of BrokenBase and Nictis, but as the prominent vets we had since the start, I feel that at least one of them is scum, either from starting that way or being culted.
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Why? And why are you suspicious of us and not Q and Nani, say?
 
On a second thought, if the cult recruiter waited until later in the night to see who Swarmingu's replacement was before making their cult attempt, they may have targeted Terrabrand to get a vet into their cult.
 
Broken Base said:
Why? And why are you suspicious of us and not Q and Nani, say?
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Day 1 convinced me that QT and Nani were town Day 1 and due to my own actions, I think Nani is still town, but I'm not so sure about QT. As for you and Nictis, I think the cult would target you because that is what I would have done in their place to recruit vets.
 
In general, I don't have any real clue on who to suspect or may actually be scum. I'm just throwing out my thoughts on what might be the case.
 
Terrabrand said:
I may be able to clarify that.

See, I slept on it and have cooled off, but while I was distracted from this by being mad over Nictis play...

The very thing that was enraging me is also scummy, not just frustrating.

Rather than focusing his case on the things he did mention like me 'fishing for claims', which is indeed probably sub-optimal as town and could be blatantly culty, he kept trying to play it like I was going hard against Nani even after I repeatedly clarified that, you know, I was overtrusting power claims and trying to compensate.
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I was working with what I saw and trying to explain it better when I was too tired to really be playing.
This could easily be scum!Nictis trying to power through a lynch by baffling with bullshit, possibly legit thinking I'm Other!Scum and hoping for town cred, possibly hoping to eliminate a problematic role.
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See, this would be pretty much like me, except that I wasn't really focusing on the Nani thing as much as you're saying I am. I was criticizing you saying that Nani was probably the Serial Killer for purely unstated fluff and because the GM liked a certain role, yes, but my focus was on you narrowing down who the vigilante could be and trying to undermine whatever credibility our Watcher had at the same time that Dovah was.

QTesseract and Nanimani were both proven to be a Tracker and a Watcher, but Dovah only listed QT as proven to be a Tracker and you only suggested that Nani could plausibly be a Serial Killer because... They were informed that one role in particular was a Cultist, which is just a Bastard piece of design if true. Alone I probably would have just tried to explain why that didn't make sense, but with both of you trying to get claims and both of you trying to suggest that Nani could be the Serial Killer it came across as scummy to me.

And, indeed, if he is scum, it may be his motive for shutting down claim fishing is not feeling like he has a solid enough one yet.
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Eyes the multiple Vanilla Claims.

Yeah. Me wanting people not to narrow down who the vigilante is is because I can't figure out a claim to make. Hi, I'm Bob The Frog.
I could see Cult!Nictis or SK!Nictis, though leaning SK, but regardless, this, upon calmer consideration, is my strongest scum read. (Part of why I'm leaning SK is that if he is SK and susceptible to my roleblock, he would want the chance of me catching him on that basis eliminated as possible, regardless of whether he thinks I am town or cult)

So.

[x] Lynch Nictis
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This is fair.

But yeah. My strongest scum reads are back on Terrabrand and Dovah.
 
1. ComiTurtle has had their [Heart Stabbed and Throat Slit] Night 1, they were Dvalinn, Ambassador of Lavisgran, a member of the Court
2. Nictis
3. QTesseract - The Tracker
4. Happerry
5. TheMaskedReader has been lynched and was Roasted Alive by the Court Day 1. They were Cain, Crown Prince, a member of the Court
1KBestK said:
Voted for TheMaskedReader: Nictis, Nanimani, Oshha, Broken Base, QTesseract
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6. Nanimani - The Watcher
7. Dovah
8. Broken Base
9. Absum has been lynched and was Roasted Alive by the Court Day 2. They were Natalia, Duchess of Boktor, a member of the Court
1KBestK said:
Voted for Absum: DimensionalGuy, Dovah, Broken Base
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10. Terrabrand - Confirmed Night Disabler
11. DimensionalGuy has had their [Heart Stabbed and Throat Slit] Night 2, They were Laine, Queen of Xalistra, a Vampire
12. Yun has been [Pierced by Holy Magics] Night 1, they were Relgar, King of Xalistra, a member of the Court
13. Oshha - Confirmed Lightning rod (w/ immunity)
14. 1KBestK

Legend:
Confirmed Power roles
Confirmed Town
Confirmed Vampire
Confirmed Teal Killer
Role Unknown

Any of this seem wrong to anybody?
 
1KBestK said:
Any of this seem wrong to anybody?
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Not really, no. Which would be part of why I am currently heavily inclined to lynch from a pool of Nictis/Broken Base/Happerry and have been all day- that's the three of the five unknowns that I have never roleblocked.

Like, if teal is a maf and not a serial killer, against my current expectations, being blocked by me and teal kill happening doesn't prove a player isn't a teal, and stuff, but well. I've either blocked cult/teal before, or they are one of those three, or someone is pulling serious shenanigans with claims.
 
Terrabrand said:
I'm the roleblocker. I'm one Court Musician Degrelis of the Lute. I'm a d&d esque magic bard by flavor, I put out a magical lullaby at night.
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It's worth noting that this is worded a bit differently from pretty much any claim so far. The name is first among all our dead players.

Cyricubed said:
1. ComiTurtle has had their [Heart Stabbed and Throat Slit] Night 1, they were Dvalinn, Ambassador of Lavisgran, a member of the Court
5. TheMaskedReader has been lynched and was Roasted Alive by the Court Day 1. They were Cain, Crown Prince, a member of the Court
9. Absum has been lynched and was Roasted Alive by the Court Day 2. They were Natalia, Duchess of Boktor, a member of the Court
11. DimensionalGuy has had their [Heart Stabbed and Throat Slit] Night 2, They were Laine, Queen of Xalistra, a Vampire
12. Yun has been [Pierced by Holy Magics] Night 1, they were Relgar, King of Xalistra, a member of the Court
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My claim and Happerry's claim are the same.

Happerry said:
I am Varkistad the Guild-master
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Broken Base said:
I'm Lyrus, Head Servant
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As is Oshha's.
Oshha said:
General Tanabris of the 1st File
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This sort of "master of the flute" addendum is also something only Tanabris had (And that was specifying his designation and not an addendum related to his abilities), which is a little curious, though not as alarming to me. I don't know Nani or Q's rolenames as far as I can tell, so maybe they match up more with Terra's. I'm not sure.

So I was going through Terra's posts and was like "eh" but this made me raise an eyebrow, going to admit.
 
Broken Base said:
It's worth noting that this is worded a bit differently from pretty much any claim so far. The name is first among all our dead players.



My claim and Happerry's claim are the same.




As is Oshha's.


This sort of "master of the flute" addendum is also something only Tanabris had (And that was specifying his designation and not an addendum related to his abilities), which is a little curious, though not as alarming to me. I don't know Nani or Q's rolenames as far as I can tell, so maybe they match up more with Terra's. I'm not sure.

So I was going through Terra's posts and was like "eh" but this made me raise an eyebrow, going to admit.
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Melbor, the royal advisor.
 
Ah yeah, the one thing missing is that I'm proven not the teal killer. I'm not sure if they're cult or a vig, though. As it stands we have a few unknowns:
  1. The teal killer. They aren't vampire, they can kill town (and would have some reason to), and could theoretically be cult or vig.
  2. Any remaining Vampires.
  3. Whatever town role used the magic attack on yun.
  4. Possibly a cult? I don't think we've explicitly confirmed the existence of a cult.
If anyone has any roles they think are missing from this, shout.

So, we know that the teal killer is either Nictis, Happerry, Dovah, or Broken Base (with the possibility that Naminani and QTesseract could have a secondary power). Unless we're going to say that some vampires have special abilities or can infect people, we know that some number of the following people are vampires: Nictis, Happerry, Dovah, Broken Base, or I.
 
Broken Base said:
It's worth noting that this is worded a bit differently from pretty much any claim so far. The name is first among all our dead players.
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I'll admit, if I get lynched for honestly claiming the role name provided right there in my role card, when I had 6~ or so examples right there to work with, for breaking a pattern that I could easily have identified when planning a fake claim if we assume I am fake claiming scum, my opinion of town's overall intelligence is gonna plummet.

There is no reason for me to mess that up if this is a fake claim with such a buffet of examples before me. I would have looked it over, and just ordered it to match the majority to avoid exactly this kind of response.

Instead, I provided the name provided without thinking on it, because I had no reason to expect to be lynched for being Sue The T Rex like poor ComiTurtle so long ago.

Obviously, you can argue I messed it up intentionally to provide this defense, but that's pure wifom at that point.

I'm not gonna argue that there's no good logics to lynch me, but this is a baffling one to try to put forward.
 
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