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You Think, Therefore You Are (A 5E D&D Slime Quest)

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chocolote12 said:
Everything you're saying boils down to a differing interpretation of what this means. You think they mean RAW. I think it's the fluff and lore and general idea of the rules. There's no point in arguing with you further unless @Novus Ordo Mundi weighs in because we're talking about entirely different things.
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They already said with the razor thing, that it's operating on RAW. So... No. The razor does two damage, even if it gets the neck.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Maybe we just need to find a bigger cliff.
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that could certainly work, but quite honest, it's not worth the hassle between having to guess the health of your victim and the fact that the damage isn't static, thus having to find a high enough cliff and having a back up plan in case the cliff doesn't do it's job, it's much easier just to lead your unwanted person of the day to a monster to be monster chow

That being said,their 'we are gods' line is pretty accurate, because the moment you have your abilities figuered out you can do pretty crazy shit with it

chocolote12 said:
Then quote where Novus said that, please. I might be blind.
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He didn't,
The only thing we have that can act as an indicator, are the race sheet and the class sheet, but as he said before he does also homebrew things and we have yet to start to story so to speak
 
sidestory said:
that could certainly work, but quite honest, it's not worth the hassle between having to guess the health of your victim and the fact that the damage isn't static, thus having to find a high enough cliff and having a back up plan in case the cliff doesn't do it's job, it's much easier just to lead your unwanted person of the day to a monster to be monster chow

That being said,their 'we are gods' line is pretty accurate, because the moment you have your abilities figuered out you can do pretty crazy shit with it
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TBH, my back up plan for the cliff didn't kill them is run away while they climb back up.
I think its a pretty good plan.
 
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Character Creation 0.4: Almost Everything Else
  • Threadmarks
    • The lunatic, the lover and the poet
    Are of imagination all compact:
    One sees more devils than vast hell can hold,
    That is, the madman: the lover, all as frantic...

    You stop yourself from continuing on. Then, with only the sounds of the hurdy gurdy accompanying him, you contemplate on why that seemed familiar.

    You focus inwards, upon the bones of the Bard. There is something familiar about it's taste. In fact, you can recall it from one other time. Some flying thing once fell into your slimy grasp, where you ate it's organic meats with gusto. It was different from the other flying things. It was a very exotic taste. Not magic. No, you've eaten magic users. No, this is more... fey-ish.

    Wait, what's a fae? Is that what that flying thing was? And why does this Bard taste like them?

    And why do you like the taste more then others?

    Obvioiusly, humanoid curiosities have so many interesting things to try and comprehend. You can't wait to experience them all.

    You concentrate again, this time on trying to come up with something original. Maybe a limerick? You close your eyes - you have eyes! - and think. After a few seconds of cranking the hurdy gurdy, it comes to you.

    I once knew a man named Calimor Rae
    Who feel deep in love with a shapely fae
    Besides the Psudeian Tracks
    They made the beast with two backs
    And it's cry was heard all out through the day.

    Somehow, you think the Bard You Consumed would have approved of that one.

    "Hello? You there?"

    You open your eyes. Is there another humanoid there? Was it looking for the Bard You Consumed?

    Maybe it wants to be your friend? Or your enemy?

    Honestly, you've never had either before. Either would be a new experience to try. And it seems you are all about new experiences today.

    --

    Now, it's time for probably the most complex vote. Good news is, I've tried to simplify the vote as much as possible. Votes will be line, with top choices winning. First off, your skills, tools, and languages.

    Skills: 4 (Three Bard, One Mnemonic).
    Already Proficient: Acrobatics, Performance
    Tools: 1 (Any, Mnemoic), 3 (Musical Instruments, Bard) (DM Fiat: Musical Instruments will be dealt with later)
    Already Proficient: Disguise Kit, Hurdy Gurdy
    Languages: 2 - 1 (1 Juiblex, 1 Mnemonic) (DM Fiat: Sylvian via The Bard You Consumed)
    Languages Known: Common, Abyssal, Sylvian

    Proficiency Bonus: +2

    Here is The List of Skills, And The Stat That Guides Them
    Here is The List of Tools You Can Be Proficient In
    Here is The List of Languages You Can Learn

    Now, go ahead and vote! There is no wrong way to choose here!

    [] [Skill]
    [] [Skill]
    [] [Skill]
    [] [Skill]

    [] [Tool]

    [] [Language]

    Due to Expertise, you can choose two of those skills to gain double your Proficiency in. If must be a skill you are voting for, or already possess. If a skill is chosen you do not have or vote for, it will be skipped.

    [] [Expertise]
    [] [Expertise]

    Now, onto Spells. Just to keep things from getting to complicated, I am putting down options for what kind of spellcaster you would like to be. From there, most of your spells will follow that archetype. Of course, if you really want to get into the nitty gritty, just select the spells you want, and we'll work from there.

    Remember, you can change one spell each time you level up.

    [] Offensive Preference (Examples: True Strike, Thunderwave, Shatter)
    [] Illusions and Charms (Examples: Minor Illusion, Charm Person, Invisiblity)
    [] Support (Examples: Heroism, Cure Wounds, Enhance Ability)
    [] Battlefield Control (Examples: Faerie Fire, Hold Person, Sleep)
    [] Odds and Ends (Examples: Knock, Comprehend Languages, Prestidigitaion)
    [] Across the Board (Get A Bit of Each)
    [] Create Your Own Plan! (Add your spells here)

    Finally, your stat block.

    Stat Array: 8, 8, 11, 13, 14, 15
    Juiblex: +2 Con
    Mnemonic: +1 Int

    Good news! For you, Strength is a dump stat. Any build other then Build-A-Bard will dump an 8 in there. So, you will focus on what is most important to you. You can also just stat yourself out, if you want.

    [] The Charismatic Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Intelligent)
    [] The Almost Nimble Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Dexterity)
    [] The Healthy Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Constitution)
    [] The Nimble Bard (15 in Dexterity, 14 in Charisma)
    [] The Many Formed (15 in Intelligent, 14 in Charisma)
    [] The Observant Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Wisdom)
    [] Build-A-Bard (Plug the stats in yourself)
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [x] [Skill] Persuasion
    [x] [Skill] Deception
    [x] [Skill] Sleight of Hand
    [x] [Skill] Stealth
    [x] [Tool] Thieves' Tools
    [x] [Language] Undercommon
    [x] [Expertise] Performance
    [x] [Expertise] Deception
    [X] Spell list [2 Cantrips, 6 spells]
    -[X] [Cantrip] Viscous mockery
    -[X] [Cantrip] Minor Illusion
    -[X] [1st Level] Sleep
    -[X] [1st Level] Healing Word
    -[X] [1st Level] Cure Wounds
    -[X] [1st Level] Hideous laughter
    -[X] [1st Level] Thunderwave
    -[X] [2nd Level] Enhance Ability
    [x] The Almost Nimble Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Dexterity)
     
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    [X] [Skill] Deception
    [X] [Skill] Persuasion
    [X] [Skill] Insight
    [X] [Skill] Perception

    [X] [Tool] Forgery Kit

    [X] [Language] Elvish

    [X] [Expertise] Deception
    [X] [Expertise] Performance

    [X] Create Your Own Plan! (Add your spells here)
    -[X] [Cantrip] (Mage Hand, Vicious Mockery)
    -[X] [1st Level Spells] (Sleep, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Thunderwave, Faerie Fire)
    -[X] [2nd Level Spells] (Enhance Ability)

    [X] The Almost Nimble Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Dexterity)
     
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    [x] [Skill] Persuasion
    [x] [Skill] Deception
    [x] [Skill] Sleight of Hand
    [x] [Skill] Stealth
    [x] [Tool] Thieves' Tools
    [x] [Language] Undercommon
    [x] [Expertise] Performance
    [x] [Expertise] Deception
    [x] Illusions and Charms (Examples: Minor Illusion, Charm Person, Invisibility)
    [x] The Almost Nimble Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Dexterity)
     
    You know what, I was going to make a plan of my own but then I realize this one above is actually basically what I was going to make.

    [x] [Skill] Persuasion
    [x] [Skill] Deception
    [x] [Skill] Sleight of Hand
    [x] [Skill] Stealth
    [x] [Tool] Thieves' Tools
    [x] [Language] Undercommon
    [x] [Expertise] Performance
    [x] [Expertise] Deception
    [x] Illusions and Charms (Examples: Minor Illusion, Charm Person, Invisibility)
    [x] The Almost Nimble Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Dexterity)
     
    [x] [Skill] Persuasion
    [x] [Skill] Deception
    [x] [Skill] Sleight of Hand
    [x] [Skill] Stealth
    [x] [Tool] Thieves' Tools
    [x] [Language] Undercommon
    [x] [Expertise] Performance
    [x] [Expertise] Deception
    [X] Spell list [2 Cantrips, 6 spells]
    -[X] [Cantrip] Viscous mockery
    -[X] [Cantrip] Minor Illusion
    -[X] [1st Level] Sleep
    -[X] [1st Level] Healing Word
    -[X] [1st Level] Cure Wounds
    -[X] [1st Level] Hideous laughter
    -[X] [1st Level] Thunderwave
    -[X] [2nd Level] Enhance Ability
    [x] The Almost Nimble Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Dexterity)

    Honestly speaking charm person isn't that great since if you fail or when the spell ends the creature knows it's been charmed.
    Two healing spells may be overkill but Healing Word is a bonus action (and in my experience really usefull) and Cure Wounds heals more but is touch based. (might want to switch one for thunder wave though)
    (Tasha's) Hideous Laughter and Sleep are must haves, (same goes for viscious mockery IMO).
    Enhance Ability and Invisibility are also great just remember that we only have 2 second level spell slots.
    Had some difficulty choosing between Prestidigitation or Minor Illusion but most people here seem to favour the illusion spell over prestidigitation so that's what I went for.
     
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    Pretty good selection @BanTheFairyKing, however Illusion and Charms is less then ideal for us

    Invisibility is a pretty weak spell, because nearly everything does break it (a.k.a. spell casting or attacking) and Charm Person is redundant with our College ability

    [x] [Skill] Persuasion
    [x] [Skill] Deception
    [x] [Skill] Sleight of Hand
    [x] [Skill] Stealth
    [x] [Tool] Thieves' Tools
    [x] [Language] Undercommon
    [x] [Expertise] Performance
    [x] [Expertise] Deception
    [x] Create Your Own Plan! (Add your spells here)
    -[X] [Cantrip] (Mage Hand, Vicious Mockery)
    -[X] [1st Level Spells] (Sleep, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Thunderwave, Faerie Fire)
    -[X] [2nd Level Spells] (Enhance Ability)
    [x] The Almost Nimble Bard (15 in Charisma, 14 in Dexterity)
     
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    chocolote12 said:
    You're really doubling down on the rules as written, aren't you? I guess we just have different interpretations of what it means to play a quest based on a game system. If everything we do is determined mathematically, then I suppose most of your points will be correct. However, I don't think that's going to be the case, because it's kind of a serious hassle and a lot of it could be easily abstracted in a narrative manner.

    With that in mind, I'd like to explain where exactly my interpretation diverges. I don't mean this in an antagonistic sense or anything, it's just where I'm coming from.

    Okay, so mechanically you say that even a critical hit wouldn't do anything to a CR0 commoner. However, a knife to an eye is a knife to an eye, and people are not magical existences who only stop moving when they run out of hit points. Where's the cutoff where they magically become immune to having their throat slit? When do they transcend petty mortal limitations like needing their blood on the inside?

    What does HP even mean in this context? I posit that it's exactly what it sounds like; not health points, but hit points. That is, it's how many hits you can take (or, rather, how many lethal ones you barely don't). It doesn't represent raw vitality, it represents, in a fight, a combination of endurance and how much minor damage can accumulate before it starts cutting into your ability to perform as a warrior. When a Balor stabs a warrior with their gigantic lightning sword for eighty damage or whatever, but that warrior doesn't die, it's not because the Balor impaled him through the heart like a Dark Souls boss and he just got up again, it's because something he did or the way he endured it caused it to not be a lethal blow.

    This also explains why adventurers can just nap for a few days and recover from being dropped to the ground, and why you need to go into the negatives for them to actually die. They're not all superheroes, and what they're recovering from isn't stuff like being stabbed in the kidneys, unless there's magic involved.

    As such, I feel that HP isn't really applicable in instances where nobody is expecting a fight. I don't mean surprise rounds, that's when people get to react, I mean things like your barber who you've known for years doing his morning ritual on your face and suddenly his knife slips, or an enemy who's got you chained up in their dungeon not needing to stab you fifty seven times with a giant sword just because you're the party meat shield and you've got a lot of HP. There'd probably be some manner of knowing something was up, yes, if only so that the GM wouldn't be called out for railroading if it were a player on the chair, but fundamentally I feel that that's something that shouldn't be handled by contextless mechanics.

    Also, I thought I covered this in my earlier posts, but if I didn't manage to convey what I was trying to say well enough that is on me. The assumption for that suggestion was that they would be fighting anyways, yes, just that they were being directed to go towards an area of the fighting where a hazard existed that they had not noticed, but that the caster had. Sorry for the mixup.

    Yes, charm only makes people friendly towards the caster, it doesn't make them their slave. They wouldn't jump in a pool of acid, but they would eat a snack you gave them. They wouldn't fight to the death for your amusement, but if something not-too-scary was going to attack you you could ask for help and they'd probably try and save your life (so, like, a tiger, but not a beholder). I'm not one of those people who think anybody one charms is automatically their slaves; they're still characters, even if their disposition towards the player has been altered.
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    sidestory said:
    No, it's just that you ignore the GM plain and simple, if it was like you said, it would have been stated by the GM,
    However he didn't say so, instead he said we use dnd 5e rules, so I'm not understanding why you have to argue against DND rules when the GM said he uses DND rules



    Welcome to dnd where the dice decides everything and it's up to the GM to interpret what these dices mean for the story


    Okay first of all, here has been a mistake on my case, which comes from my experience using improvised weapons
    Improvised weapon are all item that you use to deal damage that aren't simple or martial weapons
    This is important, because it decides how much damage you can do, which is exactly 1d4
    Now in my case, the only improvised weapon I ever used was a Torch, since I usually play spellcasters and a Fireball beat a stick anyday if you get my drift
    Now why is this important, simple because a torch is unique among the improvised weapon in that it deal only 1 fire damage, as long as it is not used against swarms,
    Now since I never used anything else, I approximated that this is the case for all simple weapons (that they deal only 1 damage)
    However that is not the case, as such yes if you are lucky or have enough Strength you can kill a commoner with a shaving knive, even easier with a crit and if you read up on the rules you could have corrected me on this, butyou didn't instead you start complaining about the rules as they are and that they do not represent you view of narration and while I agree that some rules do not work with reality, I have also to say that dnd is a fantasy setting, where the gods create everything, as such you cannot assume that a DND Human is a baseline human, better you view them as just another magical race, that just looks like us

    Also for you info
    A crit gives you 1 additional damage dice,



    1. adventures are
    2. when they are immune the cutting damage (there are item & spells for that)
    3. When they multiclass into Lichdom

    Or for a more proper and plain answer,
    While these things are indeed deadly, if you fail to deal enough damage, it simple means that you didn't succeed in the action

    You wanted to slit a Commoners throat, but only roled 2 damage, well that obviously meant that the Commoner jerked back in the right moment and your cut wasn't deep enough

    You want to stab a noble in the eye cause he felt you up, but you don't roll enough damage, well maybe if you had a better angle your knife would have been buried in his brain, but alas, due the bad angle you only blinded him



    Ok you clearly have trouble with this so how about this, yes you can translate Full HP to 100% Health, with each time where the adventurer takes damage his health go down first to 99%, then to 98% until he reaches 0,001% and is unconcious

    And with the Total HP representing how many wounds he can take until he is unable to fight anymore, which is why an experienced level 12 fighter can take more hits then a greenhorn level 1 fighter, despite having the same stats

    However, at the same time, most spells would be outright deadly, if used in reality,
    Ice Knife for example is basically a gunshot with a frag granate attached to it, nevermind something like Fireball, and yet adventures can easily survive things like that despite being hit by them

    Things that normal Humans wouldn't surive, things that dnd Humans wouldn't survive, as such while you interpretation of HP does hold merit, your interpretation of what is deadly for these characters is not



    Lol you are funny, clearly you have never seen a level 20 character, let me give you a few examples of their 'superpowers'
    A level 20 fighter can go 1v1 with a T-Rex, a level 20 Druid can bring people back that had been dead for years, a level 20 Wizard can manipulate time (Timestop), create life (True Polymorph) & rewrite Reality (Wish) and a level 20 Bard kill with a Word or grant the ability to see the future

    These people would be gods, if it weren't for the fact that there are actual gods, Elder Beings, Demon Princes and Ancient dragon in the world, alas there are and as such they are just adventures

    Nevermind the fact that even a lvl 2 Bard can already heal magically, as such even a stabbed kidney wouldn't be deadly



    I nice that you feel that way, but the body doesn't stop fuctioning the way it does, just because you start a conversation, that line of reasoning is plain unlogical, as I mentioned before, Adventures, Guards, every humanoid that goes out to fight, or that studies magic in naturally tougher, then their civilian equivalent

    Blame magic if you want, but that s how it is



    There is no difference if the person is not equiped to deal with either, since both can kill you
    And that is the difference between charming a combat npc and a normal npc

    A normal NPC would never help you in combat, a combat NPC however would help you because he has the right mentality and since you are his best friend, at least until he gets hit

    Edit: had to edit because I acciedently hit the sending button early
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    Slaggedfire said:
    Of what?

    Couldn't we just lure people into a false sense of security and then bury a hatchet in their skull? If narrative rules don't give us a crit for something like that then I'd just give up trying to kill people.
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    To weigh in: The fun thing about "classic" RPGs is that you aren't limited to "attack with sword and hope the rules allow you to hurt your opponent." If you want to attack the opponent with random rocks or boxes or even a bush, it's possibly (if not advisable) outside of pre-set puzzle zones.
    It's why D&D 3.5 had Coupe de Gras rules; cutting throats successfully should be lethal, unless your hand slips or the throat belongs to a succubus who isn't going to take enough damage from an ordinary knife to do anything- the throat will just mimic superman then because it works thematically. It's the whole point of Rule Zero: The DM/GM can discard the mechanical rules where they don't work. If we have an opponent who is helpless and we fail to kill him, maybe we slipped or he broke the Charm. If we toss him off of a cliff and he takes NO damage, the cliff probably isn't that high, and there shouldn't be any rocks down there anyways. If the death makes sense, though, and the rules don't accurately simulate a world in X or Y situation, then the DM/GM is perfectly capable of saying "You got him."
     
    boo600 said:
    If we toss him off of a cliff and he takes NO damage, the cliff probably isn't that high, and there shouldn't be any rocks down there anyways. If the death makes sense, though, and the rules don't accurately simulate a world in X or Y situation, then the DM/GM is perfectly capable of saying "You got him."
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    Thematically it does indeed make sense, however if you go down the line what an adventurer does take from monster is also makes sense that dnd Humans, especially adventures are tougher then RL humans, simple because they wouldn't be able to survive things like Demons or Dragon, as such deciding what thematically makes sense shouldn't be based of 'What kills an IRL Human' but 'What should kill this death world motherfucker of an adventurer'

    because really that's what we (or at least I am/) are talking about,
    It also why I said it's far easier,, if you think of humans, dwarves etc as just another set of monsters, thatare just relatable to us
     
    [X] [Skill] Stealth (Because we are a blob of slime, we don't have hands and people might try to kill us. Let's sneak around on the ceiling, then drop onto their faces!
    [X] [Skill] Arcana (Because spells, and the others may take a bit to be useful. Hopefully, we won't need Investigation)
    [X] [Skill] Perception (Because ambushes SUCK)
    [X] [Skill] Deception (Because I'm not sure about Intimidation, and the other two CHA might be very, very limited for us for a bit)

    [X] [Tool] Thieves' Tools (I guess a mount is a bad idea, and there isn't much else. Plus, this is popular, and we have an instrument)

    [X] [Common] (I'm seeing a lot of undercommon, with some elvish, and I understand why. Still, I want to be able to read the common surface language, since they have lots of books, so I shall resist the urge to go for Abyssal or Sylvan)

    Expertise:
    [X] [Expertise] Arcana (New Spells!)
    [X] [Expertise] Perform (We have a hurdy-gurdy!)


    [] Offensive Preference (Examples: True Strike, Thunderwave, Shatter) (I loved Shatter as a 3.5 Warlock Inv; it was battlefield control, a specialized attack against crystaline/bone creatures, a ranged sunder, a distraction... but as a Vancian one-off spell, I'm worried about using it up. Thunderwave and so on are cool, and TS shows this isn't an Evocation focus, but...)
    [] Illusions and Charms (Examples: Minor Illusion, Charm Person, Invisiblity) (Very Bard-y, and fits with "cosmic horror that affects how you see reality by eating your brain")
    [] Support (Examples: Heroism, Cure Wounds, Enhance Ability) (We may not have that many allies)
    [Removed] Battlefield Control (Examples: Faerie Fire, Hold Person, Sleep) (Want this too badly)
    [] Odds and Ends (Examples: Knock, Comprehend Languages, Prestidigitaion) (Love these, but Battlefield Control)
    [] Across the Board (Get A Bit of Each) (This is "generalist," but with limited spells...)
    [] Create Your Own Plan! (Add your spells here)

    Going for Mage Hand. With 5e cantrips as "you never run out," even weak telekinesis is awesomely useful. Plus, Sleep, Detect Magic, Thunderwave, and FF are all awesome, and EA shouldn't be a problem.
    [X] Create Your Own Plan! (Add your spells here)
    -[X] [Cantrip] (Mage Hand, Vicious Mockery)
    -[X] [1st Level Spells] (Sleep, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Thunderwave, Faerie Fire)
    -[X] [2nd Level Spells] (Enhance Ability)

    [X] The Many Formed (15 in Intelligent, 14 in Charisma)
    I like the name. Sue me. :p
    Plus, spells and Cha are important!
     
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