- Location
- Central Standard Time
I believe sustain refers to how expensive our fleet is.
[X] Daniel O'Farrell (Intel +)
[X] Ayako Tomioka (Logistics +)
This was a hard choice. (If @Whiskey Golf decides against approval voting, I'll drop one of these.)
Mandat de l'impératrice des Cieux - Imperial Princess Troubleshooter Space Opera Quest
- Thread starter Whiskey Golf
- Start date
- Original Mature
[X] Daniel O'Farrell (Intel +)
[X] Ayako Tomioka (Logistics +)
This was a hard choice. (If @Whiskey Golf decides against approval voting, I'll drop one of these.)
Hmm. On second thought, if playstyle as Yui going to be more political machination, then intel indeed going to be more useful. Synergy bonus
On the other hand, SSR politics with baseline intelligence competency can be enough to carry the day in that play, while good logistics mean when the combat do become necessary, we will be able to keep wielding our fleets main stick surer and longer.
In other word, choosing logistics here would be a balanced build, with intel is more on the less-combat build.
On the other hand, there's this.
So yeah. Still on the option that suppor Firepower Princess' Firepower Festival better. Dakka all the way!
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
1. Average Logistics is going to be good enough for us to properly manage supplies, whereas raising our intel is of higher priority, given the fact that it can be used in any situation and also helps shore up our fleet combat abilities, by allowing us to know more about the enemy and plan accordingly.
2. I heavily disagree with the fact that, in fleet combat, a logistics officer is more pragmatic than an intelligence one. The logistics officer isn't really involved directly in the fight, whereas an intelligence officer is also in charge of carrying espionage actions, like sabotage, misinformation, false flag ops and other similar acts, actions that actually contribute directly to a battle (but then again, I don't exactly know much about intelligence and logistics officers, so I could be wrong about some of the things I'm saying).
3. Proper managing of supplies isn't really going to matter if our opponents can defeat us, and our fleet combat stats are average and combined with our character's obsession with honor, means that any opponent who's either smarter or more pragmatic than the norm could defeat us without any real difficulties, which is not a good thing. An intel advisor could allow us to slowly start working on removing the obsession with honor, and also teach our character the importance of tactics and of dirty fighting, making her more efficient at fleet combat, while also making us better at politics.
4. As for sustain, I suspect it's related to how good the ships are when it comes to a prolonged engagement. Our heavy ships have great firepower, but are slow, and once they use that firepower, they won't be doing very much, meaning that we want to ensure a victory as fast as possible.
Note that I was arguing about pragmatism. These are not what 'pragmatism' means. They are espionage tactics, applying them could be pragmatism but they are neither necessarily pragmaism nor 'more pragmatic' must include them.
I interpret pragmatism as 'being realistic as what you can achieve' , 'doing what necessary to achieve purpose' and 'concern more with practicality over aesthetic/idealism'. What's our fleet can practically do determined by logistics, and the job of a logistics is very much a concern over what's practical.
The Logistics officer may not be able to tell you much on how to fight, but they can very much tell you, when say, keep going with brute force method here would be beyond the fleet, and you need to come up alternative method if you want win/survive, even if means breaking some of your preferred ideal.
Comparatively, espionage is not inherently practical or pragmatic. A lot of espionage actions over the course of history is motivated by idealistic purpose, and undertaken in means that are not necessarily wise or practical.
Also, those examples of action you mention? They looks like it could have fall into Politics just as much, if not more. I don't think you need to taught someone with SSR politics how to be manipulative. Hard to believe anyone can get that accomplished in politics without having cutthroat side. The write up of Yui portray her as concerned with honor on battlefield, not out of them.
This seems in contradiction with what @Whiskey Golf has stated in regard to the character. You make it with look like Yui is really weak, when in has been stated that she isn't stupid and at least competent in combat.
I am also contesting on the validity of idea of intel officer knowing how to manage fleet battles. Intel is first about information gathering before dirty fighting, and even then the kind of dirty fighting agenst engaged in is whole different ballpark with dirty fighting in starship battles.
EDIT: also, sorry. But your first sentence don't make sense to me. Supply management matters, because that's part of how to avoid defeat.
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Exterminatus
Tsukumogami User
- Location
- Southern California
[x] Mulia Ketmanee (Politics +)
Let me elaborate on that. Let's imagine an opponent that manage to outfight us by brilliant tactics. But what did they actually do exactly?
Perhaps they have manage to go around our supply lines and break it. Okay, so now how many supply we lost? It is enough to keep going? How we can mitigate ist effect to fleet capability? Is there alternative way to secure replenishment? Depends on the answer of this question, they fleet may keep proceed toward their objective, even if they have to suffer detour or reduced combat capability, instead of giving up.
Perhaps they have managed to inflight heavy blows to our fleet. Allright, we retreat and reorganize. How many reserve we have? How many ships can be repaired to battle-capable again and how fast? Depends on the answer, the fleet may still able to swing back for a rematch.
Perhaps they trap us into having a series of long battles. Well then, do we have enough munitions?
Supplies is important part of determining how much winning chance a military have, so it just confound me that you dismiss it by saying 'it won't matter, can defeat us'. When the defeating thing is dependent on (among with other factors) logistics. Can we lose even with excelllent logistics? Yes. But that's doesn't make it immaterial to the win-defeat calculus.
Now, if the enemy can annihilate our fleet in one alpha strike, you will be right. There's no meaning to our supplies situation when everyone is dead. But I don't think that's likely to happen. Not until the game has gone on for quite a bit at least.
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- Location
- France
[X] Ayako Tomioka (Logistics +)
Logistics is what Yui needs the most.
She already is excellent at politics.
She's average at fleet combat but she has superior firepower.
Whisky said that she could use imperial assets to gain intel.
The one thing she can't buy is logistics skill. (i'm not talking about getting the supplies but actually managing them.)
Whisky said that we would fight different types of battles including "financial battles", so I'm pretty sure that one mission will be dealing with mismanagement of a province, wich can't be dealt with with politics, intel or weapons.
Plus her fleet is the heaviest, wich means the one who consummes the most supplies.
One other thing is that we can't choose our battles, we clean the Empress and that's it. That means we can't avoid actual combat or management missions. I would be fine with maxing out politics if we could focus on only that but that's not going to be the case and we really don't want to neglect logistics if there's a chance we can be cut off from supplies or caught in an attrition war.
Logistics is what Yui needs the most.
She already is excellent at politics.
She's average at fleet combat but she has superior firepower.
Whisky said that she could use imperial assets to gain intel.
The one thing she can't buy is logistics skill. (i'm not talking about getting the supplies but actually managing them.)
Whisky said that we would fight different types of battles including "financial battles", so I'm pretty sure that one mission will be dealing with mismanagement of a province, wich can't be dealt with with politics, intel or weapons.
Plus her fleet is the heaviest, wich means the one who consummes the most supplies.
One other thing is that we can't choose our battles, we clean the Empress and that's it. That means we can't avoid actual combat or management missions. I would be fine with maxing out politics if we could focus on only that but that's not going to be the case and we really don't want to neglect logistics if there's a chance we can be cut off from supplies or caught in an attrition war.
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- Location
- PA
Rrrgh.I'm torn. On the one hand I DON'T want Logistics if you guys are just going to think 'WE HAS A BIG GOLDEN HAMMA~!' because that's what the LAST Empress had and it's why we're in a mess right now. On the other hand, logistics WILL open up methods and ways to help that will be more tangible then what Intel might allow.
[X] Ayako Tomioka (Logistics +)
Because I voted for fluffy tail to help put this Empire BACK together before it falls apart. Not to use the Wrath of the Empire to carve out some petty Kingdom out of the wreckage, that's Saltman's job.
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What the Sustain Stat means for this Quest
Whiskey Golf
Being of Editing & Technical Assistance
- Location
- Chained to my desk
SV doesn't actually have any rules against doubleposting, just FYI. Anyway...
Sustain + is actually the Imperial Navy's baseline standard for independent operations. What that means is that you carry a full warload of weapons, and have enough consumables and perishables for a standard Imperial Navy deployment (which is several months), but you don't have fleet tenders and must thus periodically "refuel" (taking on reaction mass and propellant) from various space stations. This is generally not an issue because practically every system has at least one refuelling depot; a lot of the more built up systems can have multiple spaceports/docks where you can refuel. If you expend ammunition and need resupply, likewise the Imperial Navy has authorised bases/ports where you can get resupply.
This assumes that you're not in range of a Navy base to resupply though, and there are a good number of Navy bases in the Empire. Basically, the Imperial Navy's approach to basing is like the USN. There are bases that the Navy owns and controls (like the USN's Rota or Guam or Pearl Harbor). There are bases that the Navy shares with local Ducal forces* (Like how the US shares Yokosuka with Japan). And there are bases where the Navy has a logistics presence (Changi Naval Base in Singapore is owned by the Singapore Navy, but has a full on USN logistics presence and docks capable of refitting and repairing aircraft carrier). In IRL terms, Sustain + is a USN DDG operating on detached duty and stopping by various ports to refuel.
Sustain ++ , Alastor's setup, is the Navy's baseline for extended independant operations - this is basically enough consumables to last at least 6 months, with fleet tenders carrying extra consumables, spares, ammunition, reaction mass, propellant, and a repair ship or two. In IRL terms this is a USN carrier strike group with fleet tenders (oiler, ammo ship).
Sustain +++ , Yonatan's setup, he gets that by cheating abit. He's about torp dumping, minelaying, hit and run attacks, so his fleet mix is mostly lighter combatants that are more easily sustained (predominantly DD & CL), along with carrying an utter shitload of tenders, ammo vessels, and repair ships.
*I'll talk about this both organically in a story update and later in a lore post.
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AsuraKyoko
The Witch who was known as the Goddess of War
- Location
- Brockton Bay
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- Location
- Central Standard Time
In any case, I feel like intel is a bit more general.
[X] Daniel O'Farrell (Intel +)
[X] Daniel O'Farrell (Intel +)
Whiskey Golf
Being of Editing & Technical Assistance
- Location
- Chained to my desk
You don't need to be a logistics nerd if you can continue to have access to the Imperial Navy's logistics, or be rich enough thst you can pay for the refuelling of your fleet out of yourmown pocket...
DaS5
Shiny Colors
- Location
- Jakarta, Indonesia
Hmm, actually going to change my vote. Going for Logistics wouldn't be the best imo since well, we do have access to the Navy's and if needed, the IRG's, facilities. So the time it really shows its worth is when either the Empire fractures, or we really are going to some remote part of the Empire.
Politics, in light of Yui's likely expertise with high society, while it would be useful to stack, covering a capability gap with additional intel would be more general.
[X] Daniel O'Farrell (Intel +)
Politics, in light of Yui's likely expertise with high society, while it would be useful to stack, covering a capability gap with additional intel would be more general.
[X] Daniel O'Farrell (Intel +)
Whiskey Golf
Being of Editing & Technical Assistance
- Location
- Chained to my desk
Remember to crossout your old vote if you're changing votes!
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[X] Ayako Tomioka (Logistics +)
- Location
- nz
[X] Daniel O'Farrell (Intel +)
Whiskey Golf
Being of Editing & Technical Assistance
- Location
- Chained to my desk
Actually word of god time (I really would have preferred to bring this up in a story post but my slow typing orz) but Yui actually doesn't want to fight nicely and honorably, she wants to steamroller her foes with her BB squadrons and CA screen.
But then that looks really bad like she's bullying people weaker than her, and the other Great Houses are going to use that as negative PR against the Royal Family (a fair part of Hagoromo-no-Kaneo-no-Mikoto's legend is that instead of crushing her rivals Sumeragi, Fenghuang and Hoou, she instead let them live if they would bow their heads to her, and further was so gracious as to elevate them to the level of Great Houses, above the other two Great Houses who were her staunchest allies). So Yui has to make the effort to have a fair and clean batchall and not be dezgra and give the other side multiple opportunities to surrender before she goes in for the kill.
(Otoh, if they give her a chance to use her full fleet against them? Hell yes she's going to drown them in her capships.)
The problem with relying on the Imperial Royal Guard is that the IRG has its own agenda, and the IRG's loyalty is to the throne, and most importantly, the IRG assigns you what support it 1) judges the mission deserves and 2) what they can spare. So you might get a shit hot Delta team and their intel section supporting you for one op, but then you can't get them for your next op because they've been reassigned.
Having an Intel Adjutant means that you have a more robust, more capable in-house intel staff, and you have consistent continuity between missions. That's the costs of doing business.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Okay. Yeah, we're going to want our own intel.
It's easier to SSR-politic supplies than intel, imho.