Sol Zagato
senseless brute
So what will overmaxed RA do, besides fanaticism and the shamans taking over?
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] Yes.
[X] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] Yes.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Settling arrow lake only increases the time the horn riders will need to wait for their temple; since they can't herd caribou down here right now (will hopefully eventually be improved with breeding). The path to giving them a temple is one of the 2 new settlments or the summer camp, and of those river bend has the best agricultural potential and is on the relay already.
- Location
- USA
So in terms of free actions given to us due to his being both a martial and mysticism hero, I get that we will get free martial actions from this, but what exactly will mysticism give us for free? Free study options?
How long until these problems for them start to crop up? As we all assumed there would eventually be an issue with a Holy Order being without a Temple of their own to call home, however, it's rather unclear how dire the situation is.
Yeah, no, the Star Shaman seem like they're going to be our analogues to High Priests or somethings, so I'd rather not.
However, you did mention something curious with this. If we could transplant the Star Shaman simply by introducing the Horned Riders nearby, is there any real restriction from moving them to another Temple, and perhaps having them share it? For instance, since it seems likely that we will be conquering Arrow Lake as one of our own, could we not do something such as having the Horned Riders share a Temple with say the Fangs at Hill Guard, not necessarily store their animals all in the same place as I do remember the fact that our wolves scare the caribou, but simply have the members of each Holy Order be based there, until such a time that we can build a new Temple for either the Horned Riders, such as maybe a separate one, or for the Fangs getting one built at Arrow Lake.
The way I see it, I think this should deserve consideration for a number of reasons. Firstly, while there is the issue of the caribou mounts of the Riders being scared of our dogs, the thing is with how ubiquitous dogs seem to be in our civilization this will occur across any of our settlements. But the fact that the Fangs and Horned Riders both seem specialized in the magic of Beasts suggests to me that there should not be as much friction between the two Holy Orders due to how close they are in terms of their mysticism. Secondly, from how you described the Temple at Hill Guard:
It makes me believe that we could easily house both the Horned Riders and the Fangs at the Temple there, even renovate it later if need be. Both the Fangs and the Horned Riders revere nature.
Due to the fact that Arrow Lake is too far south to accommodate caribou, my suggestion here would be to see if we could temporarily house the Horned Riders and Fangs at the Temple at Hill Guard. Eventually, when the Temple we complete at Arrow Lake is complete we can then move the Fangs over to Arrow Lake as the location is not geographically locked to them as it is to the Horned Riders. We know that the caribou can survive at Hill Guard as they passed nearby earlier when we warred with the enemies of the Peace Builders, where they ventured much further south than that.
@Redium When you take into account your idea of the Horned Riders supplanting the Star Shaman, could my idea have merit? Because it seems like we will have to deal with this issue sooner or later.
- Location
- Somewhere
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
revoting.
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
revoting.
I do admit; your theories on how the Ember-Eyes performed magic are rather amusing to read; you've mentioned possibilities I didn't think of. The only issue with this explanation is that lime powder wouldn't explode. It's exothermic, certainly, but it's not exothermic enough to be considered a low explosive like black powder.
It should be streak!
I would argue that you're currently better set than if you had a Diplo hero. A Diplo hero would simply smooth out any issues without thinking about it. Your Diplo hero would fail to recognize the scope of the problem due to the relative shortness of their life; they wouldn't realize that this problem is a crisis with a deadline of a hundred years. They'd need to hybridize with another Hero type to truly realize the scope of the problem. The best you could have would probably be: Diplo/Mystic > Diplo/Admin > Mystic/Admin >> Mystic >>> Diplo.
The Star Shaman and Horned Riders are incompatible; Jeree basically had to completely restart his training to switch like he did; a non-hero wouldn't have been able to do it. The Horned Riders could merge with either the Frost-Scarred (best merge you currently have, but not objectively the best) or Fangs (not good, but compatible).
Sacred Autocracy is a valid government type and it has a higher RA cap. The only difference from what you have now would be instead of the Pareem being incidentally spiritual (i.e. being Pareem has is completely orthogonal to shaman-hood), you would fully integrate the Pareem and the shaman until they form one body.
Even if you did go Sacred Autocracy, it's possible to walk away from that later without becoming a theocracy. Rome was a Sacred Autocracy that transitioned into a City-State, League of City-States, Oligarchy, and then Autocratic Empire. The Ancient Greeks arose out of Ancient Aristocracies before they developed independently into City-States with democracies, oligarchies, autocratic systems, and monarchies.
If you settle a second settlement for the Northlands, you could build them a temple and simply wait on building a temple in Arrow Lake.
There is combination of choices that gets you Arrow Lake and can be finagled the turn after for the Horned Riders to get access to their own temple.
Study actions, Kilns, and Temples, IIRC.
As long as Jeree is alive, it doesn't matter. That means likely 1-2 more turns; probably 2. Even then, it wouldn't be an immediate crisis. It would build over several turns and you'd get warnings beforehand.
Moving the Star Shaman is impossible. They are tied to the Cave of Stars.
The only reason that the Horned Riders can even displace them right now is because Jeree is a Mysticism Hero from the Horned Riders. Normally, in the clash between the two traditions, the Horned Riders would lose. Every time.
This is one possible solution to the issue. There's two combination of Arrow Lake/Northlands votes this turn that will spark off a temporary joint hosting at Hill Guard for the Horned Riders and Fangs. That would trigger another vote next turn on what to do with the joint Horned Riders and Fangs and how the relationship between the two orders and their temples should develop.
Essentially, there's two solutions: either commit to building a temple for the Northlands at some point in the next ~5 turns, or figure out which two choices are likely to cause the Horned Riders and Fangs to come into close proximity and end up house mates together.
This particular decision is supposed to be hard; you're deciding on shinnies and sometimes grabbing everything is impossible without some degree of pain or sacrifice. You can grab everything, but that could very well mean you choke on while you try to digest things over the next few turns. Alternatively, if you play it too safe, you lose things that you never had any reason to.
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- Location
- Somewhere
Wait, are you talking about the settle the Northerners in Arrow Lake combination with one of the maintain Arrow Lake options?
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
[X] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [War] No.
Going with these 2 options. The disperse option is almost certainly the way to get the horned riders to live with the fangs, while river bend is the best temple option because it helps us control the vaunted river plain.
As always, I am still against taking arrow lake as a settlement. It is quite literally a shiny, draining our actions. Is ++++ luxuries worth 9 actions, and more with every project we invent? I say no.
[X] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [War] No.
Going with these 2 options. The disperse option is almost certainly the way to get the horned riders to live with the fangs, while river bend is the best temple option because it helps us control the vaunted river plain.
As always, I am still against taking arrow lake as a settlement. It is quite literally a shiny, draining our actions. Is ++++ luxuries worth 9 actions, and more with every project we invent? I say no.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
[X] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [War] No.
changing vote to this...mostly the north gets their own settlement...we can build a temple there and then continue on with the hill for the fingers, as well as get a hill for the northerner's…hopefully we can FINALLY get the situation with all the temples and hills done so we can finish the fire-relays as well as get kilns everywhere. (also clay pits...because clay
)
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [War] No.
changing vote to this...mostly the north gets their own settlement...we can build a temple there and then continue on with the hill for the fingers, as well as get a hill for the northerner's…hopefully we can FINALLY get the situation with all the temples and hills done so we can finish the fire-relays as well as get kilns everywhere. (also clay pits...because clay
)
- Location
- USA
In that case I am glad that we have both an admin hero and a mysticism hero right now, as we've just stumbled into another teething problem for our civ. Hopefully things don't go pear shaped too fast.
Well, no inherent penalties is a good start, pretty convincing for those who want new settlements.
So in the cases of the surviving Arrow Lake tribesmen, once they are integrated into our fold, how will their status change over time? I know from past discussions where the Northlands was in this situation that it was said that the children of these tribesmen would not be born debtors, but I am curious how far this will go. Also what will happen to those Indebted who we liberated from Arrow Lake who were once members of the Mountain Clans?
In this case, could we potentially build two Temples for a single settlement, as inefficient as it is? As, aside from the idea I put forth earlier of housing the Horned Riders with the Fangs at their Temple, which seems open for renovation due to its concept, and then moving the Fangs into the eventual Temple at Arrow Lake, I am not sure what we can do to solve this issue save create a new settlement which fits this criteria.
Uhhh...somehow I doubt our neighbors now or in the future will like us much for this.
Good to know. So what exactly is the role of the Headman in all of this. Are they Pareem or are they not?
Quick question about the current Arrow Lake settlement, how intact are their other structures? Such as, how intact are their farms and other producing buildings? Did they have no infrastructure or trails of their own that we could co-opt?
Considering their current interactions with each other, Luule and Jeree, I have a feeling we may eventually get that diplo hero we need...hopefully.
C'mon Luule and Jeree, pull an Alvar and Natka for us.
From what I take of this, we can likely merge the Frost-Scarred and Horned Riders right now but as they aren't the best merge, that likely indicates that the Fangs and Horned Riders are in the long term. While the Fangs and Horned Riders may not be good now, they are compatible and I think they likely will have synergy in the future. Maybe in the future we could have hunters on caribou-back with their dogs being used as trackers to assist, similar to how old hunts had hunting dogs while the hunters were mounted.
Doable, but not preferable.
When you mean second settlement for the Northlands, do you mean another settlement after the one we are deciding on right now, or is it the one we are deciding on right now?
Either way, I think the spiritualism issue is more likely to come from the Northlands rather than Arrow Lake as we know the Northlands are deeply spiritual, seeing as they have a Holy Order and had a Grand Shaman, while Arrow Lake has never had any mention at all of religion.
It seems we will have to thread the needle if we want to get Arrow Lake and the Horned Riders their Temple. I will have my theory for this later.
That's actually pretty good for us.
So not too immediate, but something we should plan for. Gotcha. Hopefully Jeree lives like Kaspar.
Yeah, I kind of figured that.
Are mysticism heroes normally that powerful? They seem kind of niche on their own.
In regards to to the first mention, of the two combinations, my guess for that is thus:
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[ ] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
With these two combination of Arrow Lake and Northlands votes, the Horned Riders will have no choice but to temporarily host at Hill Guard with the Fangs. We know from word of QM that Arrow Lake is too far south of the caribou's natural range for them to survive down there, thus making it so that even though the majority of the Northlands will be settling down there, the Horned Riders will be forced to move somewhere else, that place being Hill Guard, which is one of the few places suited to host them with a compatible Holy Order.
[ ] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[ ] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
The other option that could potentially fit this criteria in my view is this one. Again, similar to the above, but by dispersing the Northlands' people there will also be no true home for the Horned Riders. Meaning that their best bet for one would have to be their closest analogue in the Fangs.
As for what to do with the Horned Riders and the Fang, depending on how well the two can potentially integrate, which I am guessing Jeree could help us with here, I am of two minds. One of them is to simply integrate the two Holy Orders making it so we don't have to build a new Temple for one of them, however with the time we have I think building a Temple in five turns is manageable.
The other option, is as I mentioned above. We temporarily have the Horned Riders host at the Temple of Fangs. Once Arrow Lake is up and running, and with a large population gained from having both peoples there, we can then exploit the materials and luxuries present to build a Temple there for which we could move the Fangs into, thus vacating Hill Guard's Temple which the Horned Riders could probably convert to one of their own, after likely an action or something.
Personally I think we could manage either scenario presented above, however I would prefer we thread the needle here.
So here's my vote:
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[X] [War] No.
Here is my reasoning for this choice.
By choosing this option, I believe this is one of the choices that will force the Horned Riders to share space with the Fangs, thus giving us more time to work on getting them their own Temple. As I said above, due to the ecological restrictions placed upon the Horned Riders due to geography, even if we place the majority of the Northlands into Arrow Lake they will not be able to operate there. All of the other options, whether it be the Cave of the Stars or other settlement options would give the Horned Riders an opportunity to build a Temple of their own. This one would not as they are physically unable to, making it so they would need to jointly base with the Fangs.
Why is this a good thing for us? Simple, it helps us keep down our RA, lowers the needed infrastructure we would require, and simplifies our future plans. As the QM illustrated before, Arrow Lake is rich in materials and is fertile enough to invest in. By placing both the Northlands and Arrow Lake survivors at the Arrow Lake settlement, we will likely maximize the output of it as the Northlands will give it the needed staples to recover, Arrow Lake itself would provide the materials needed for infrastructure and the building of a new Temple, and the people of the Northlands would also bolster the defenses enough so that we don't have to worry as much about revolt or invasion.
By focusing on Arrow Lake we can still keep our built tall strategy intact better than if we founded two new settlements in total. We would only need to build one set of infrastructure buildings, however with the boon of Arrow Lake itself, our current resource deficits should be mitigated somewhat. Making it so we have a shorter distance we need to catch up in.
As seen from what the QM has said, Arrow Lake as a settlement is a rich one, and one that can likely help address our current deficits. With it having been stated as being 3X more profitable for us compared to dispersing them with the integrated luxury option, 2X more profitable in terms of materials, while at the same time possessing craftsworks as well, if we focus on Arrow Lake we can likely make up for the lost lock in time through having fixed our current deficits or worked towards easing them.
This is what I believe we can do to thread the needle.
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Dang those frost-scarred fellows are creepy.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
- Location
- USA
While this option likely will cause the Fangs and Horned Riders to come in contact with one another and share the same Temple, the issue I have with your vote is that this will likely lead to the two Holy Orders fusing into one rather than staying two distinct entities as by not taking Arrow Lake as a settlement, you are not offering an out for the Fangs in getting a Temple of their own.
Arrow Lake is more than just the shinies as you put it:
The QM himself states that taking Arrow Lake intact would make it two times as productive in terms of materials in addition to the three times amount of shiny luxuries we would get as well. That is not chump change considering we are currently facing a moderate deficit in both materials and luxuries. Furthermore, as seen by the pluses and minuses, it also offers craftsmen as well, something else we are in need of.
Being efficient and building tall is great and all, however, to build tall you still need resources. By taking Arrow Lake we will likely alleviate some of our current resource problems by having more of it available.
So in my opinion, yes, it is worth it to delay ourselves somewhat in terms of efficiency in order to get ourselves out of the current hole we're stuck in.
[X] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[X] [Lake] Integrate Arrow Lake into the People; have them address the lack of Materials. (+ Materials, + Craftworks)
[X] [War] No.
changing vote to this...mostly the north gets their own settlement...we can build a temple there and then continue on with the hill for the fingers, as well as get a hill for the northerner's…hopefully we can FINALLY get the situation with all the temples and hills done so we can finish the fire-relays as well as get kilns everywhere. (also clay pits...because clay
The problem I see with this vote is that if we assume the pluses and minuses are comparable in scope, we won't be able to build a Temple at the site you are proposing as the two things we need most for them, craftsworks and materials, cancel out when added together above, making it so that our current resource deficits would remain, thus preventing us from building any Temple in a timely manner, let alone a Hill.
- Location
- Somewhere
[] [North] Merge into Arrow Lake's settlement. (+ Staples, + Martial, + Luxuries)
[] [War] No.
edit: Nevermind. I remember I want the ethinicity of the northen nomads. I worry their genetics will be lost if we put the northfolk in Arrow Lake.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
The temple of the fangs is custom built for them. It's basically a massive kennel. Kicking them out will piss them off and do so in a manner that they will have a constant reminder of unless we renovate the temple.
Why would maintaining the settlement one way cause a merger while maintaining it the other way wouldn't? The 2 paths are almost certainly the same north option with the 2 different lake options from the same set. I do admit that given your points, the "true" option is almost certainly maintain+merge (and I would never vote for that path, since it would destroy herding as a livelihood and damage our tech gains, and destroying our caribou tech to support an organization who's main benefit to us is caribou stuff is absurdly backward) or maintain+disperse, which at least only gets us an extra settlement outside of the envisioned path, IF we were right about this being the correct path. If not, we just screwed the horn riders out of a temple for all forseeable future.
We have 5 turns before it becomes an issue. We have trails. We have kilns. We have wood, if it comes to that. We have options. This isn't a hole we need to dig our way out of, it's a speedbump that we have the actions to bypass.
- Location
- USA
Not necessarily, especially if we are willing to simply build them a new one fit for their specifications.
While the description of the Temple of the Fangs does have it described as a kennel there is more to it.
With large open space, and being a sprawling nature compound, it works just as well for the Horned Riders.
The two options I presented have it the reverse. If we pick any other Northlands aside from that of merging them with Arrow Lake, there is little chance for interaction with the Fangs being needed. The option for the Cave of the Stars as has been discussed earlier would've forced us to build a second Temple for the Horned Riders or have them subsume the Star Shaman Temple. If an unclaimed location was chosen as the settlement site then there would be no need for the Horned Riders to hole up with the Fangs at Hill Guard as they likely would be able to, and would choose to stay at the site of the settlement and wait for a new Temple to be built for them. By having the Northlands merge with Arrow Lake at that settlement site the Horned Riders would be forced to go elsewhere as the Arrow Lake site cannot support them. Looking at the other Temple options available among the other settlements, it is only Hill Guard that could likely take them. In essence any other option aside from Arrow Lake gives the Northlands riders the chance to simply wait for a Temple to be built, while the constraints of Arrow Lake force them to stay with the Fangs.
Dispersing the Northlanders, and thus the Horned Riders among all of the People's settlements in my view would not lead to a Temple being created for the Horned Riders as a separate entity as the dispersal of the Northlands themselves, without one true settlement to claim as their own, likely would mean that the Horned Riders are more likely to merge with an existing entity than retain their own traditions.
Until @Redium clarifies, if he chooses to do so, there are a number of choices which could fit the bill.
The same could be said for the build tall strategy in terms of efficiency. There have always been arguments made that we will have plenty of time to address issues when more often than not unexpected issues crop up causing us to deviate such as the wars against the Northlands and Arrow Lake which none of us predicted happening. 5 turns is a long time, and considering how we currently have a materials deficit, a luxuries deficit, a faction in the Fingers, and an overcapped religious authority I'd rather prefer to correct our issues now in what seems to be the most expedient way than to let the issues compound and assume we are going to be left alone to do so.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The 2 options you presented have different northland options. The only share the same arrow lake option.
That said, I do agree that taking arrow lake (though not shoving the northlands there) is neccesary if we want them to flat-share with the fangs, for the reasons you noted.
Why would having no settlement to claim as their own be more likely to cause the horned riders to merge into the fangs if the settlement they claim is so far south that the mounts that give their order it's name can't live there? It seems like preventing the non-holy-order northlanders from herding by settling them in arrow lake would do way more damage to the horned riders than keeping them dispersed, since it would remove their civilian herds and recruiting pool.
[X] [North] Disperse among all of the People's settlements. (+ Martial, + Staples)
[X] [War] No
Changed my vote for the northlands as i really don't want my star shamen to be eradicated.
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DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
Maintaining Arrow Lake seems clear to me, because that location is both extremely valuable and under external pressure from adjacent populations- which means if we don't move in, someone else will, and we'll end up needing to fight this whole war all over again, probably against someone whose idea of a military strategy is more sophisticated than "roll well". Yes, it'll strain our internal politics and take a bunch of actions to get properly brought in line with the rest of us, but that's a problem that we can handle, and we'll be stronger for it in the end. I'm not too worried about rebellion if we just replace the leaders, and we're culturally strong in a way that we'll be enforcing on them and our culture involves a lot of population churn internally, so having them remain a distinct conquered-and-resentful populace seems quite unlikely.
The Northlands' disposition is trickier. Any new settlement will cause additional strain on our already-strained politics thanks to the Arrow Lake choice, but there are holy order issues if we cram them together when we want to maintain distinct traditions. The options to have them settle in Arrow Lake will leave them in a very different environment than they're used to which isn't great, dispersing them basically increases our population but loses everything that made the northlanders unique and useful while it does so.
Ultimately I'm inclined toward giving them their own settlement, but doing so in a location that makes use of as much existing infrastructure as possible, which means either River Bend (already either on the Fire Relay/Great Trace or very easy to link in) or their current summer camp (already maxed on trails, as we found out rather painfully when we fought them). River Bend also has the large benefit of being partway between our existing settlements and thus has the net effect of making our nation more interconnected as a whole- settlements closer together have easier communication, trade, and support.
This combination of actions is setting ourselves up to need to pour a lot of actions into infrastructure in the upcoming years, but we do have two young heroes at the moment (probably worth 2 actions each before dying, plus better results overall) and we just finished the only war in sight. We should have quite a few actions to throw around even if we're running into the Paths of Civ "half your actions are spent manipulating your resources to make the few actions you care about actually possible" problem. We're going to have a religious upheaval, too, but I don't have a problem with that- governmental and value changes are usually beneficial overall and we have heroes in place to help manage it.
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [North] Found their own settlement at River-Bend, west of the Fingers. (++ Staples, + Luxuries, - Crafts, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
Maintaining Arrow Lake seems clear to me, because that location is both extremely valuable and under external pressure from adjacent populations- which means if we don't move in, someone else will, and we'll end up needing to fight this whole war all over again, probably against someone whose idea of a military strategy is more sophisticated than "roll well". Yes, it'll strain our internal politics and take a bunch of actions to get properly brought in line with the rest of us, but that's a problem that we can handle, and we'll be stronger for it in the end. I'm not too worried about rebellion if we just replace the leaders, and we're culturally strong in a way that we'll be enforcing on them and our culture involves a lot of population churn internally, so having them remain a distinct conquered-and-resentful populace seems quite unlikely.
The Northlands' disposition is trickier. Any new settlement will cause additional strain on our already-strained politics thanks to the Arrow Lake choice, but there are holy order issues if we cram them together when we want to maintain distinct traditions. The options to have them settle in Arrow Lake will leave them in a very different environment than they're used to which isn't great, dispersing them basically increases our population but loses everything that made the northlanders unique and useful while it does so.
Ultimately I'm inclined toward giving them their own settlement, but doing so in a location that makes use of as much existing infrastructure as possible, which means either River Bend (already either on the Fire Relay/Great Trace or very easy to link in) or their current summer camp (already maxed on trails, as we found out rather painfully when we fought them). River Bend also has the large benefit of being partway between our existing settlements and thus has the net effect of making our nation more interconnected as a whole- settlements closer together have easier communication, trade, and support.
This combination of actions is setting ourselves up to need to pour a lot of actions into infrastructure in the upcoming years, but we do have two young heroes at the moment (probably worth 2 actions each before dying, plus better results overall) and we just finished the only war in sight. We should have quite a few actions to throw around even if we're running into the Paths of Civ "half your actions are spent manipulating your resources to make the few actions you care about actually possible" problem. We're going to have a religious upheaval, too, but I don't have a problem with that- governmental and value changes are usually beneficial overall and we have heroes in place to help manage it.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
It seems as if mathematical/action efficieny concern are over taking narrative.
The northlanders are a herding and hunting people, thier culture is built upon the great beasts of the plains.
The current popular proposal is throwing them down the far south.
Think what it does to a culture to be forced to march that far south to a land that is anathema to thier traditions.
Hell, even mechanic wise, the QM said that going arrow lake basically kills the tech advantages unique to northlanders.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
- Location
- The Summer Sea
- Pronouns
- Nah
[X] [Lake] Maintain the settlement, but mix in a noticeable number of the People, primarily shaman and warriors. (++++ Luxuries, ++ Crafts, + Materials, - Martial, - Magic)
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
Smart sheep.
[X] [North] Maintain their current summer camp as a year-round settlement. (+ Staples, ++ Luxuries, - Materials)
[X] [War] No.
Smart sheep.