@Snowfire is gravity linked to spacetime configuration in this version of physics? I'm wondering if sufficient application of gravity manipulation could make bags of holding or very twisted space. Also of interest is what would happen if our indestructible matter design were made in very distorted space and then the distortion were turned off so that the geometry of the matter became impossible

so for instance if space were twisted such that the start and end of a straight bar could touch eachother, and such a psuedo-circle of inviolate matter were made ... what would happen when the grav sheer was turned off?
In order:
  • Yes, spacetime and gravity are linked the same way they usually are. The Practice War universe generally follows the same laws as this one, though keep in mind that our own understanding of physics is incomplete. In particular, relativity is very likely no more an accurate description of space-time than, say, fluid mechanics is of water. It is likely to be far more computationally tractable than the real thing.
  • Gravity affects the curvature of space in a normal fashion, except when it doesn't. An attempt to make a practical, small-scale bag of holding is likely to fail, and would require negative energy in any case. As far as we know, no such thing exists.
  • "Very twisted space" already exists. A grav lance is precisely this, and the Fifth secret drives also (necessarily) involve twisting space. Depends what sort of twisting you have in mind.
  • The simplest-to-explain spacetime geometry in which a closed loop of non-curved matter can exist is if you pass it through a wormhole. If you try to pinch shut a wormhole with a bar of inviolate matter running through it... In this case, it is instructive to consider what would happen to a bar of normal matter. The answer to that is that it'd resist the pinching, in the process producing the right curvature to keep the wormhole open -- though the forces exerted are vastly beyond what any normal matter could possibly survive, and it'd snap.

    For inviolate matter, it depends on how inviolate it is. It's certainly possible that it might force the wormhole to stay open. The rule holds in general, not just for wormholes; if it doesn't get snapped, it'll produce the curvature needed to not get snapped. (...rather by definition.)
All of that being said, I don't recall seeing wormholes in the Practice War universe. There's good reason to believe they can't exist -- they'd violate the weak energy condition, as would all geometries in which you can do this, except for one. That one exception is, of course, the photon sphere of a black hole; it is warped such that a photon emitted at a tangent to the event horizon would return to its point of origin, as much as 'point of origin' can be defined under such conditions of extreme dimensional warp.

This means that it would in fact be possible to have a straight bar of iron welded into a circle around a black hole. Except, of course, for utterly impossible compressive forces it'd incur. Nevertheless, in principle...
 
The simplest-to-explain spacetime geometry in which a closed loop of non-curved matter can exist is if you pass it through a wormhole. If you try to pinch shut a wormhole with a bar of inviolate matter running through it... In this case, it is instructive to consider what would happen to a bar of normal matter. The answer to that is that it'd resist the pinching, in the process producing the right curvature to keep the wormhole open -- though the forces exerted are vastly beyond what any normal matter could possibly survive, and it'd snap.

For inviolate matter, it depends on how inviolate it is. It's certainly possible that it might force the wormhole to stay open. The rule holds in general, not just for wormholes; if it doesn't get snapped, it'll produce the curvature needed to not get snapped. (...rather by definition.)
the wormhole loop was just a simple to explain example. The real core concept was "what happens when inviolate matter is made in non-standard spatial geometries and then those non-standard spatial geometries cease to exist?" Where the question is as more about the properties of inviolate matter than anything else.

Because a big deal was made about discovering it and then ... it kind of fell off the radar.

That said, permanent non-standard curvature is hella-useful for engineering

edit: also I now want to make a blackhole gun. I don't mean a gun that shoots a singularity. I mean forcibly neutralizing a blackhole's gravity well in one direction and having the result vomited out in a super-duper-mega-nova shaped charge
 
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edit: also I now want to make a blackhole gun. I don't mean a gun that shoots a singularity. I mean forcibly neutralizing a blackhole's gravity well in one direction and having the result vomited out in a super-duper-mega-nova shaped charge
Black holes don't work that way. They don't actually have any more gravity than any other large star. The only thing that's unusual about a black hole is that because they're so small you can get way closer to the center of gravity than you can that of a normal star. Somehow directing that gravity would... maybe quadruple the power? But it would still just be "GET OVER HERE!" unless you're right on top of them.

The grav shear weapons we have right now are far superior to a black hole shaped-charge cannon.
 
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Black holes don't work that way. They don't actually have any more gravity than any other large star. The only thing that's unusual about a black hole is that because they're so small you can get way closer to the center of gravity than you can that of a normal star. Somehow directing that gravity would... maybe quadruple the power? But it would still just be "GET OVER HERE!" unless you're right on top of them.

The grav shear weapons we have right now are far superior to a black hole shaped-charge cannon.
you misunderstood: negate the gravity and let the unrestrained mass rapidly expand along the corridor of negation as if squirted out of a high pressure container
 
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Uh, I'm not sure what that would do, exactly, but that's an entire star's mass. Wouldn't it swallow the gun, and you, in about a nanosecond? And be really, really hot from compression?
 
you misunderstood: negate the gravity and let the unrestrained mass rapidly expand along the corridor of negation as if squirted out of a high pressure container

That is not how mass works. At all. Or how black holes work, for that matter. When a black hole dies you get a bunch of exotic radiation, mass doesn't suddenly pour out of it.

Gravity is the name given to an effect. The cause of this effect is mass bending space-time. Black holes are an impressive amount of mass compressed into an impossibly small space.

If you alter the mass of a black hole you're doing rather freaky shit to begin with, so you might as well just use that freaky shit as the weapon.... and I have no idea what that might do. Increase or decrease the size of the Event Horizon, probably.

If you alter the way reality works within a given area, you could do something like what you want, I suspect, but there's not really a point. If you're that capable you might as well use simpler means to accomplish the objective.
 
you misunderstood: negate the gravity and let the unrestrained mass rapidly expand along the corridor of negation as if squirted out of a high pressure container
Oh. So a particle beam, but using more exotic effects. As other commenters have stated, that wouldn't work. We probably COULD use the Fifth Secret to make a corridor of antigravity, but the star-mass wouldn't make a collimated beam. So the mass would leak out to the sides and get caught in the remaining gravitational well, so... yeah, that would make a mess. A big mess. And then black holes aren't exactly the easiest thing to transport around... It would be more efficient to have a sub-critical mass of stuff and propel it with a mass driver.
 
More importantly, turning a black hole into a particle beam either requires a super beefy application of the Fifth Secret (i.e. powered by the total output of a star or a bigger black hole) or something weird like changing the gravitational constant in an area. At that point though you aren't so much using a Secret as creating one, and there are much better ways of killing something available to you than Gamma Ray Bursts.
 
the wormhole loop was just a simple to explain example. The real core concept was "what happens when inviolate matter is made in non-standard spatial geometries and then those non-standard spatial geometries cease to exist?" Where the question is as more about the properties of inviolate matter than anything else.
I have no idea what would happen, and probably neither do our characters.

It'll be exciting. Let's test it!
 
So many people rating me 'funny'...

I was completely serious, guys. This seems like an important thing to test.
 

It's what people who don't have a love for things like "coming up with ideas for how involite matter created in warped space time reacts when said warping is removed" call it when they have to do that thing I wrote in the quotation marks.

If you, on the other hand, choose to play with such thoughts, I look forward to seeing your conclusions if that'd be cool? :)
 
It's what people who don't have a love for things like "coming up with ideas for how involite matter created in warped space time reacts when said warping is removed" call it when they have to do that thing I wrote in the quotation marks.

If you, on the other hand, choose to play with such thoughts, I look forward to seeing your conclusions if that'd be cool? :)
I'm pretty sure everyone in the tech support team enjoys recreational physics-hacking. :p
 
Update is finished, but as with the last one, I'd like to get it checked before I post. Too many errors can slip in when I'm writing late. Still, I think you'll like the finished product.

There is a vote in this one, but it's not one I could just leave out. The direction you go with this stands to be important.
 
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Turn 17 - Steadying Harmony
November 14th​, 2122

:Are you sure you want to do this, Mandy?:
Mir sent, apprehension clear in his mental voice. :I know we're good, but six of us against all two hundred and seventeen of them. Isn't that a bit much?:

Since the Second Battle of Sol, the Unisonbound had trained year upon year, and you'd made sure to keep up with them. It had been difficult around the demands of the Presidency, but as one of the nominal commanders of the formation, it had been something you couldn't avoid. After stepping down, you'd spent two years helping fix the problems that the minimal time you'd been able to give before had meant you couldn't focus on. The Unisonbound were strongest as a whole, and that made fixing them something you could only really do together. Now that that was done, though, there was time for more than that.

:Perhaps,: Elil's not-quite-confirmation of the concerns of the newest member of the Heartcircle really wasn't what you'd hoped to hear. :But it doesn't have to be.: Or maybe not, you thought, sending a burst of thankful warmth down your link to the dark-skinned Clarity-Focused. Mir's confusion was a palpable thing, but Lea took pity on him before you formed a reply.

You had to drill by Heartcircle, that was how the Two Twenty Three fought; and when each Heartcircle was different, matching them against each other in a way that was fair was almost impossible. They were getting better, though. You could see it as you watched a dozen skirmishes rage across an area of space over a light-minute on a side. Void training had been something the Unisonbound had begun practicing more regularly since the Second Battle of Sol, after the true breadth of their capabilities had made the limits of a planet-based training program painfully clear. And these combat drills had more than one advantage when the Contact Fleet was present and watching. Knowing what you'd told them, and seen in recordings, that was one thing. This let you show them how Practice had allowed humanity to break the Tribute Fleet sent against you in a way anyone would understand. Sensor data from their own ships didn't lie.

:You're our hole card for this, Mir. What you've been learning on Mars, none of the rest of us have had time for.: You felt Vega twitch through your link to her. She'd learnt how to Speak before you'd even considered real classes, and that reaction worried you.

:It's not just the Speaking,: you interrupted, coasting your Heartcircle closer to the edge of the combat zone. A few of the skirmishes slowed, proving what you'd suspected. They'd been watching. :It's not fair putting us in command of one side, not with Vega's link to the Web.: You filled that statement with as much warmth and non-judgemental understanding as you could, trying to direct it at the Harmonial and felt more than most of it slide off into nothing. :It's known that we're the strongest Heartcircle in the Two Twenty Three, but the margin needs to be quantified. The only way to do that is to face us off against everyone else and use every trick we have against them.:

:It feels wrong…:
That wasn't a complaint. Mir's Focus was Peace, and he'd found even the idea of training for battle difficult to swallow. He'd known where going through synchronisation trials could lead, that was made clear from the very beginning of that process. His entire psych profile going in had shown that he'd be able to make it work, and he'd proven that time and again over the last few years. That didn't make working past his Focus any easier. Every single one of you knew it.

:We know.: The words came together without conscious timing. You'd all been helping him in your own ways and he was getting better, but this was the first time his abilities had been made the centre of the Heartcircle's tactics. :We're all here.: For either you or Vega to use Words would be simply unfair in all but the most strenuous tactical exercises, and the Harmonial had been unwilling to do so since the Restoration anyway. Mir was one of the quiet students in your special elective, however, and with Alvar's help he'd made swift progress. He wasn't competent to Vega's level, let alone yours, but he was getting there. He had a talent for the art, now he was getting the chance to use it outside of the classroom.

:Which one should I use?: The question was sent to all of you, but it was clearly aimed at you. A surge of calm and warmth pulsed down the link again as you answered.

:Any of the ones you know best.: You grazed along the edge of the combat zone, watching as more of the Heartcircles started to slow, to react to your presence. Once you crossed that line, it would be all of them against you. :If you can slow them down a bit…:

:I can do that.:
He nodded, only a touch hesitant. He'd made up his mind. :Should be close enough.:

:I'm sure it will be,:
Kalilah assured him, her weapon unfolding smoothly into its spear configuration as the rest of the Heartcircle readied their own armaments. You reached out, aquamarine fire blooming at your fingertips as they closed around empty space that was empty no longer. Gentle white rippled across Vega's Aegis, the web between the Heartcircle tightening, drawing you all closer; the shared perspectives of six minds blurring into one. You felt Lea's hands as your own, waiting to reach out and break anything that came too close. Elil sinking into the connection, adding his clarity to Vega's Harmony as you skimmed down the line that would take you into the exercise.

Then you crossed it. Not as six people, but six-in-one.

Power that did far more than just match your own flared in a hemisphere before you, extending around as you dived into the centre of the combat zone. They were getting better at coordinating without you, that was good. The half-dozen largest Heartcircles started to close in, cutting the angle to intercept, and you all felt the power gathering in Mir's lungs. He breathed in just as you'd taught him, then held it, the energy waiting like tinder for the spark of sound and intent that would set it ablaze. Not-light burned against the lines of Kalilah's weapon, tearing at the sight of anyone who tried to look at it. The entire star system knew what that meant, but that was the point.

The leaders of your opposition hurled their own weapons at you, but it was all too obvious. Trying to split one of you off wouldn't work, none of you would let it. Equally, you couldn't dodge everything coming at you. But Lea was herself…and you were you. The other Mender's hands were everywhere, catching the larger energies that the formation couldn't dodge, and tearing them apart with her Focus. Your own light joined it, discs of light flashing in and out of existence to stop anything Lea couldn't. These were tactics the other Unisonbound knew, and they'd close through them regardless of what you sent back. But it wouldn't be that simple this time.

Valkyries: 93 + 32 = 125. Greater Success

Clarity saw, Harmony sang, and Mir lifted his voice across the heavens.

Cease

It wasn't you Speaking. But it was enough.

The Word raced out, catching Unisonbound by the dozen in its grip. It wouldn't last long, but Kalilah didn't need long. The weapon Asi had been created to be spun in his master's hands, and a tide that was the absence of light swept across the frozen masses. Dots vanished from your mental screen, and if you'd actually been fighting instead of training, you knew almost fifty people would have just died. Light flashed and sparked at the edge of the wave of conceptual destruction, fighting to overcome, before the sphere of not-light broke apart. Scores of Foci washed it away, and the energy of Practice unleashed whispered against your souls.

The plan shifted, Mir swallowing his next breath. They were ready this time and tests had shown that Unisonbound could resist Words. You'd culled some of the horde, but the rest of it would be down to the melee. Clarity gave you failure, but long odds were no stranger to the six of you. Shields of cyan materialised around you, layering deep as Kalilah retracted her spear's emitter spines.

:Come get us: Your defiant voice swept the Web, merged so deeply that it was hard to tell where one any one of you began.

They came.



The word, you considered, working fingers through your hair as you luxuriated in the shower, was impressive. You'd fought parts of the Two Twenty Three as just your Heartcircle, and every time the different part had shown new skill in countering you. This had been your first drill against the entire unit and though they were still learning to work as one without your presence, they hadn't lost. A hundred and ten had been knocked out of the exercise before the last of you reached the training limits, over fifty to the mousetrap Mir had executed so well. You were proud of him, all of you. It hadn't been the most powerful example of a Word, but he'd been under infinitely more stress than any of his classroom attempts.

You stepped out of the shower, reaching for a towel as a ripple of your Aegis sent water tumbling off of you. A few moments of vigorous towelling later, you slipped on a robe and padded through the bedroom of your quarters. The Unisonbound facility had all the comforts of home, and plenty of space available. Even if the commute to other worlds was short, bringing everyone together for these drills had a positive effect you couldn't ignore. It also helped with debrief and the meticulous after-action review process that Lina had suggested you implement. Your mind was already busy with that as you stepped into the small living area and stopped short.

Harmonic Voice: 78 + 33 = 111. Synergy Greater Success

"Hi, Amanda." Vega waved faintly from just inside the doorway.

"I didn't hear you come in," you temporised. Vega had been distant towards you for most of the year. She'd hid it well, but you knew her. Something was eating at the Harmonial, and with you obviously being a part of it, what it was had been obvious. "Please, make yourself at home." You waved her over to small sitting area, all the while thinking furiously. The Restoration, specifically its handling after-the-fact, had been difficult for Vega. Restoring Mytikas, and the rest of the old Martian settlements with it, had focused considerable attention on her and in ways she wasn't equipped to handle. Bringing back Skylark had changed things for her, but only in proving that she could do what she claimed. And her work at the Elders' Vault remained a matter of national security, just like the Vault itself.

"Thank you." She sank down opposite you. "I was hoping that we could talk," there was a long pause. "Mandy." She hadn't called you by that name for almost a year.

"Of course." You wanted to ask what was wrong, what had changed, but those were the wrong questions.

"I," she stopped, her shoulders slumped. Again, you wanted to do something, but some instinct deeper than the first thought of any with your Focus stopped you. Moments later, she pulled herself back level with you, though still not meeting your eyes. "You probably know what it's about, but it's been hard finding the words."

"Take your time," you offered gently.

"It's…" she sighed, and for a moment you thought she might not continue. "When the Restoration happened, when I offered you the chance, I thought I knew what I was doing Mandy. I really, really did. With your help, we could do so much more, give so much more back to humanity. That was the point, really. But then you did what you did, with our help, and we…I," the words were pouring out now like a flood. "I was left in the middle of a spotlight that was suddenly much, much larger than I'd expected. And I didn't know what to do with that, Amanda. The Harmonic Circle needed time to recover from the stress I'd chosen to put them through, and that left me…having to deal with that spotlight. I've never been good at that, but it was something I'd chosen to do. You were only just out of the Presidency, and I'd asked for your help, I couldn't just fling you back into the middle of things.

"I wanted to, you know," her eyes dropped, shamefaced, "I wanted to just push it all onto you but I couldn't do that. And I'd promised to help with the Unisonbound problems that you'd talked with me about before I'd come to terms with everything. I couldn't just go back on that promise, it wouldn't be right. So I got through the year, somehow, and hoped we'd have time to talk at Wintersnight, but I was there with Mir and you focused on Adri and Kalilah. I got why, I still do, but it still hurt. And then-"

"Vega." You didn't raise your voice, but the calm statement cut through her rushing words with ease. A few thoughts swirled in your head. That she should have come to you, that she could have talked to Adriana, or someone else. You dismissed them all. None of it would help. "What can I do?"

She leaned back slightly, eyes widening in shock. "What?" She breathed out, as if she couldn't understand that question.

"You told me something almost ten years ago, when I was trying to find my balance after an event shook me to the core." You could still see that moment, less than an hour before humanity engaged the Tribute Fleet. Before Purify. "That all of the Unisonbound could feel my confusion, and there was more there that you never touched on. That you wanted to help, but I had to let you in." You reached out, offering your hand. "So I'm asking you what I can do to help you, but to answer that, you're going to have to let me in."

She brushed a hand across her face, leaving it to hold her chin. "I don't know if you can," she began, but the feelings seeping down the link between you put a lie to that, a link that had felt dead for over six months.

"What makes you feel that?" You asked.

"I don't know," the pain in those words was almost physical. There was an answer, there were several in fact. But this needed the right one. Vega wasn't just a member of your Heartcircle, she was your friend.

What do you do?

[] The Slow Way: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Right now, Vega is hurting, but you can't just…fix that. She needs time and a safe space to express herself. You can give her that. (Will lock an action to Harmonic Voice next turn)
[] A Twist in Harmony: There is pain here, great pain, and you were always taught to take responsibility for what you did to others, accidentally or otherwise. Apologise for this now, and work with Vega to restore the harmony you once shared over the rest of the year.
[] The Web Beneath: Vega is opening herself to you again, and you can give her so much more support through the Harmonic link than by voice or time. Offer that to her, that she might express herself. And let you do the same.
 
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It was expressed to me by my beta (thanks Tayta) that the voting options here are a bit difficult to parse if you've not had relevant background experience, so I'm going to lay them out quickly here. The first option is simple, you take the trust you've been given and give it time to grow and come across. This is a more traditional means of fixing the problem, but it will take time, which is why you will be losing a Personal Action next turn if you choose it. Twist in Harmony revolves around another aspect of this sort of process, whereby acknowledging guilt and apologising for it can restore even a broken bridge - which this isn't, it's just damaged. The third option relies on the Harmonic link between you and Vega, one that she's opening to you almost without being aware of it. It's possible to express a great deal more through that then with words, but processing the results will take time.

To be clear, none of these options are wrong; you rolled a Greater Success and that's going to hold. It's why Vega came to you, instead of the other way around. What matters right now is what you feel is most right for this situation. It won't do anything to your success, but it will affect the way your relationship with Vega evolves in the future. Anyway, hope you liked it. There may be a small follow-up to this depending on the vote you pick, but equally I might just leap straight to the next turn post and make reference to your choice there. That feels more organic to me right now, but we'll see if it stays that way. Hope you enjoyed both the heart-to-heart, and my first real work on writing Unisonbound combat since the Second Battle of Sol. They've come a long way since then.
 
[X] The Web Beneath: Vega is opening herself to you again, and you can give her so much more support through the Harmonic link than by voice or time. Offer that to her, that she might express herself. And let you do the same.

Option one works very well as well, I just prefer three's ability to not have any miscommunication or misinterpretation crop up since I regularly have that issue irl.

Even then I really am almost tempted to vote option 1 instead anyway. Taking time to do things that really matter is... important.
 
Hm. I have a slight preference for A Twist in Harmony, because we knew when we chose for Amanda to Speak that there would be consequences, so accepting responsibility for them seems to be the right path. Not entirely sure yet, though.
 
[X] The Slow Way: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Right now, Vega is hurting, but you can't just…fix that. She needs time and a safe space to express herself. You can give her that. (Will lock an action to Harmonic Voice next turn)

Was flip-flopping between this one and the ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Practice magics ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ vote. On one hand, Vega's character is basically centred on Practice. On the other, Practice is kinda why she's in this bind right now...

I dunno, using Practice as an expedient seems a bit spooky. And part of the whole post-Presidency phase was to be able to take our time with these things, wasn't it?
 
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