Rihaku
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Are you sure?
Nameless doesn't trust himself to use Veil at that level! And he is wise to not.
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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
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Are you sure?
Nameless doesn't trust himself to use Veil at that level! And he is wise to not.
Bah, coward! Seek the pinnacle of pleasure!
It's a real shame that after we voted so conclusively to deal with Nameless' crippling personal flaws*, we now aren't taking the opportunity to do so, as other shinies have been presented themselves.
Is it to much to ask that we can keep to a consistent goal for even two updates in a row? It's been the continual theme of this round of votes, we choose to do something then immediately afterwards wander off aimlessly in another direction before immediately getting distracted again.
* anything that makes part of you say 'Meh, we can take them.' about your enemies when your enemies are listening counts.
Is it to much to ask that we can keep to a consistent goal for even two updates in a row? It's been the continual theme of this round of votes, we choose to do something then immediately afterwards wander off aimlessly in another direction before immediately getting distracted again.
* anything that makes part of you say 'Meh, we can take them.' about your enemies when your enemies are listening counts.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
People think Extra-diligent may be relevant here/have applicability towards dealing with spoiledness in a healthier way or something.
I think it's much more likely to simply provoke a Spoiled Proc at the end of the year when we want to leave the elves if we take it without To Face Yourself, and burn out his ability to study for another six months, as our time Cultivating at the court of Vane did. We can't afford that. We've seen that Nameless can be extra diligent while Spoiled. Spoiled just ensures that it backfires afterwards.
And what's up with this crap that having someone else helping with your mental health is unhealthy? Aurelia is effectively acting as a superhumanly competent therapist here. Getting help when you need it is a healthy act. People insisting that you have to deal with mental health problems privately and individually is a major social problem, and we're replicating that pathology here.
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OctarineShrike
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I expect us to burn out too(different from spoiled proc, which won't happen in Elven territory), though I hadn't considered involving Aurelia in Extra-diligent.
Aurelia is a supernaturally good therapist. She's not fucking with the mind though as far as I can tell. She's just superhumanly clever and eloquent. Her magic is just making her better and more competent.
The main reason for the need of a personality change was because Spoiled caused the lich to not be cooperative. That reason is no longer very important, especially if we pick diligent. As long as we can do what is necessary during the next few years, it doesn't matter much if nameless is spoiled for a few centuries afterwards until he eventually with the aid of his wife's passive influence grows up into a mostly decent person.
Unlikely since Nameless enjoys it. We do after all have a precedent for that with him not burning out despite intense Diagram research.
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Right, this is a question I should actually ask the QM! @Rihaku is there any chance Nameless could create an artifact which allowed him to have a second copy of his Grand Diagrams active at once? Alternatively, more specifically, is there anything we could do to use the fact that we have EFB Vault to get a strong vault, even if not one as strong as an EFB True Artifact-boosted Vault would be? I'd like to both see what EFB Vault actually does and hopefully get at least a semi-useful monster vault set up, and an Artifact which let us cast our Grands again would do both of those relatively efficiently.
(Note that I'm not asking if it's something which is even halfway practical at the moment, or whether it's doable with our current Stages. If it's doable but only as an Opus, that would be nice to know as well, for that matter.)
(Note that I'm not asking if it's something which is even halfway practical at the moment, or whether it's doable with our current Stages. If it's doable but only as an Opus, that would be nice to know as well, for that matter.)
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Diagram research may well have faster returns than Necromancy, leading to its rewards keeping him going. Millennia of practice are needed to master after all.
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Hence why I say at the end of the year. I can see Spoiled procing right after he leaves and him insisting on coming six months and doing nothing but indulge in the luxuries of the Isle of the Elves again.
The Emanation also needs to die on a fire.
We also have no reason to believe that we can choose Extra Diligent again if we retain Spoiled. Nameless could easily enjoy Necromancy Research now while it's novel but be bored to tears by it in a year's time.
And the reason is still critically important. We know that Nameless is much slower at Necromancy Research than the lich, and that the only way to make meaningful progress in a reasonable timeframe is with it's assistance:
Nameless being diligent only matters in so far as it changes his personality and so the lich's. It only seems worthwhile paired with I'll Face Myself.
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Enohthree
Hypersane
Something to note though is that being diligent also makes the Lich somewhat more diligent as well.
Diagram research did not have the benefit of The Veil. Also it might not matter much if nameless gets bored with the slow progress since the lich being interested in it is what matters most and progress is fast for him (and progress kind of won't be that slow anyway since Namless automatically gets whatever progress the lich makes as well).
Once the lich has made enough progress we can just keep him in the sceptre form all the time, so that isn't really much of an issue.
For the rest, see my response to Conjured Blade above.
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DkArthas
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Or, we can simply take I'll face myself and let the Lich do all the work. It's far more efficient.
Increasing our work ethic greatly and minimizing the time we have to spend on the scepter.
Aurelia can be trusted to make us see that spoiled is extremely harmful without affecting any other thing.
[X] I'll Face Myself
[X] Extra Diligent
Increasing our work ethic greatly and minimizing the time we have to spend on the scepter.
Aurelia can be trusted to make us see that spoiled is extremely harmful without affecting any other thing.
[X] I'll Face Myself
[X] Extra Diligent
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I'm just fine with situation as is. Veil of Maya is fine, Extrusion is fine and we can do other stuff.
Most importantly, however, I really like Nameless' character so i don't want to change him in such way. Victory is possible either way, so I don't see the reason to compromise him.
Basically, what Aurelia said.
Most importantly, however, I really like Nameless' character so i don't want to change him in such way. Victory is possible either way, so I don't see the reason to compromise him.
Basically, what Aurelia said.
DkArthas
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I am still not that sure of victory. I feel like Nameless is getting too overconfident and extremely complacent.
Spoiled is a chain that still bounds Nameless, given to him by the fates. We know that the fates could have stopped him from ever clearly seeing Zang Kong's offer again. And, it succeded, we wasted our oath on Aurelia.
So it's entirely possible that Nameless is being slowly influenced through spoiled by them. They are going to do everything in their power to stop him. It's Nameless's greatest weakness.
Spoiled is a chain that still bounds Nameless, given to him by the fates. We know that the fates could have stopped him from ever clearly seeing Zang Kong's offer again. And, it succeded, we wasted our oath on Aurelia.
So it's entirely possible that Nameless is being slowly influenced through spoiled by them. They are going to do everything in their power to stop him. It's Nameless's greatest weakness.
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I mean, Truth, Strategy and Diligence all have Nameless working on defeating Fates in various ways. It's not like we are voting to sit around and do nothing.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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Take his current situation for example, Nameless is being affected so much by Spoiled that he isn't even willing to put his full effort for a few years, when victory would bring him thousands of years to slack off and enjoy shit to his heart's desire.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] I'll Face Myself
[X] Pursuit of the Truth
[x]Open the Way
[x]Amplification
Full Persona
[X] Pursuit of the Truth
[x]Open the Way
[x]Amplification
Full Persona
Yes?
Are we playing the same quest? Because my version has Nameless choosing between figuring out Grand Diagram of Essence, getting Truth Diagram, working to improve the Empire or getting better at Necromancer. You know, all the things that have us massively improve our chance of winning against the Fates.