Even Further Beyond [Complete]

I think you overestimate how powerful previous Overlords were and what defenses they had access to. Quite frankly, from what we've seen hinted most previous age magical systems are significantly less powerful and versatile than either the Diagram or Binary Magic, and those two systems are completely outclassed by the freakish monstrosity of a system that is Cultivation. Just compare Aurelias Majesty to the Truth. Majesty is only capable of competing with it because its Ring is used by what is basically a supergenius prodigy by Elven standards, and even then Truth is the one that can spark the creation of a new universe, turn people into gods of war, grant immortality, stop time and exile people into the Elder Dark.

Previous Overlords also didn't have access to multiple systems and its synergies like our Thrice-Great. The only reason we got that is because Cultivation is all about exploiting synergies between all past magical systems and Thrice-Great only completes it by integrating the two previously incompatible systems.

Can we spare a moment for the poor schlub that was Overlord of the Age of Majesty? He probably had to fight an Orcish War Magic Heroine armed only with his completely social focused magical system.

My theory is that the Fates kind of played themselves by always introducing a more powerful system at the end of an age to make it easier for the Heroine to defeat the Overlord, slowly but surely escalating powerlevels like this was DBZ until Cultivation completely exploded the power scale by mixing things that were never meant to mix. I am certain that the Divinities disdain for mortal "weeb shit" utterly bit them in the ass when they decided to introduce Cultivation and they haven't even truly registered the danger yet.

You have to take into account two things:
  • The Age of Truth's Magic, the Diagram, was noted to be weakened by the presence of other magics. It was why the Diagram empires were so genocidal, they destruction of every other magic system would in turn strengthen the Diagram and since they succeeded to the point that the only contesting magic was Binary magic of the elves, it is no surprise that is it more powerful than the other magic systems. Cultivation does not interfere in this due to it being all about separating the self from reality.
  • The Age of Might's Magic, Cultivation, was probably kindled by Lady Winter who desired that her age would last forever, thus her creating a system that would be overwhelmingly powerful would make sense, its not just that the Fates were escalating, it is also that the Fate who kindled this age specifically desired a system that was strong enough to have a chance of making the Age of Might eternal.
 
True Incarnation provides absolute defense against mental effects of that sort. Unless the heroine or the Gods have access to something with higher conceptual priority than the Truth we shouldn't be in trouble. And if they have, we might as well consign ourselves to getting hit with Fated Love, because if and EFB granted absolute immunity effect can be surpassed some bit resistance granted by an artifact will be easily swept aside.
Ok, I'm just worried that it's something more/different than a mental effect like heart or soul. Was there a post that stated Fated Love was a mental effect?
Edit: I'm blind as a bat apparently, sorry.
 
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Ok, I'm just worried that it's something more/different than a mental effect like heart or soul. Was there a post that stated Fated Love was a mental effect?
Literally in the description of True Incarnation (the first place we heard about it). Quote:
*The character is impervious to esoteric attacks that affect the mind, including all forms of supernatural influence, including supernatural effects that 'count as' natural, such as Fated Loves.
(Emphasis mine.)
 
The main problem is that TI doesn't prevent the Heroine's super charisma and beauty from affecting us so even if we can't be mentally influenced into accepting our Fated Love we can be swayed and convinced normally.

Plus cheating Fates pulling bullshit like arranging the "perfect" scene to help her seduce us.
 
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The heroine was said to be an omnidisciplinary genius with a wealthy upbringing. Combine that with Spring being a social hero, I realized a potentially disturbing hypothetical.

Worst case scenario: The fates deceived Cerebration, Aurelia is the heroine.
 
The heroine was said to be an omnidisciplinary genius with a wealthy upbringing. Combine that with Spring being a social hero, I realized a potentially disturbing hypothetical.

Worst case scenario: The fates deceived Cerebration, Aurelia is the heroine.

Doubt it since if the Fates win that means no more elves. It would be really difficult to have a "hero" justify genocide on their own race.
 
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She is 100 years old. I very much doubt she is the heroine.
The answer is obviously time-travel. Wait, something still doesn't line up. I know, it was time-travel plus genetic engineering! Wait, she still needs to be able to Cultivate. Then it must have been time-travel plus genetic engineering plus spiritual surgery!

There, transforming the Heroine into our elven princess in three easy steps.
 
The heroine was said to be an omnidisciplinary genius with a wealthy upbringing. Combine that with Spring being a social hero, I realized a potentially disturbing hypothetical.

Worst case scenario: The fates deceived Cerebration, Aurelia is the heroine.

Hmm. Aurelia's age would potentially contradict that, barring time shenanigans.
 
Ooh! Quick update! And it's even not after I should be asleep this time, so I can read it without being absolutely certain I'm going to have no brain tomorrow, too!

Tally response: I guess that means we're going with the Oath, then. Oh well, I know we only barely voted against it last time so I'm not that surprised. Hopefully we also got Lovey-Dovey, that race was a bit closer but if the Oath won without that I will be disappointed. Well, maybe not if we get True Incarnation, but otherwise definitely.
Adhoc vote count started by UDwarf on May 3, 2018 at 1:25 PM, finished with 969 posts and 129 votes.
 
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What time standard do elves use to count age? Do they include subjective time in time dilation zones?

Further:..


3)
Once you've spent your orbs, we'll kick you down to the mortal realm. Anything goes over there. The contest won't be finished until the Age ends or her life does

This doesn't rule out the possibility she's already been present/already chosen her orbs and entered the mortal realm.
 
Heck Cerebration could even be technically correct if Vane had an Elven line at one point, time shenanigans happened and/or she has a birthday within a month of ours, and she has visited the court of Rubies.
 
Meh, it's plausible, but a bit of a stretch--admittedly.

That being said, EFB Extrusion... Well, it's likely that the EFB will limit or mitigate any flaws that baked in on top of the other things it does.
 
Twice the Pride, Double the Fall
Twice the Pride, Double the Fall

By infusing his Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh with power drawn from the Ring of Truth, Nameless had created a universe tailored to his specifications, an armament of cosmic scope that he merged with his Ego Barrier to create the artificial semblance of a Titan's Ego Gradient. The conceptual dominion of a Titan married to an Immortal's raw power allowed him to manifest the equivalent of an orthodox Titan's Extrusion, though his (theoretically) possessed strength and speed vastly beyond that of an ordinary Titan.

A Titan's path was the uttermost embodiment of their self, and the Extrusions of that path were its reified qualities. What, then, did it say about him that his personal Extrusion had emerged like this? Wretched, heinous, ungrateful thing...

"You tried to scam me." He confronted the lich-like creature, its crook of neck and bedraggled robe oozing serenity and false wisdom.

"When in a scam," it began, "You do not realize it is a scam. It is only after the scam passes that it becomes clear you were scammed. So how does one know this too is not a scam? What if the very belief that I scammed you is, itself, the true scam? ...One day, you will awaken and realize it was all a scam."

"Shut the fuck. Up." Nameless prepared to forcibly compress the damnable creature back into his Ego Gradient. The hours he'd wasted on this thing's moronic exercises, the money he'd thrown away... !

"I did not try to scam you," it explained patiently. "'Try' is an illusion, an abstraction of the mind. I merely succeeded. Success, failure, these are true things. 'Trying,' that is the lie."

When it wasn't spouting anodyne re-framings of pop-cultural wisdom, the thing could, despite current evidence, occasionally extrude some incisive statements. However, both the former and the latter were emitted with the same driving motivation: utter slothfulness and greed.

Greed for money it couldn't even use! The thing resembled nothing so much as an exploitative 'spiritual' guru slowly extracting wealth and labor from its students, dispensing dressed-up platitudes in return.

"You realize your existence is entirely contingent on mine," Nameless sighed. "There was no purpose to making me and Suizhen waste all this time!"

"It was funny," the thing said. "And I got paid."

"This was a mistake." Nameless considered carefully how to dismantle this thing. It wouldn't be easy, but he would figure out how to re-cast the Truespell Vault with a different configuration. Merely casting this creature into the outer darkness wouldn't be sufficient.

"Okay," it held out a palm. "I'm sorry. I genuinely am, inasmuch as I can be sorry for taking such a juicy mark. You were so ready to discover deep truths by confronting yourself, how could I pass that up? It's not my fault, I can only be what I am. And what I am is what you made me. And what you made me, is a reflection of yourself."

"I don't give a flying fuck. No one scams me and gets away with it."

It cocked its head. "Are you going to kill Father too?'

"No, but his comeuppance is only a matter of time, as is yours. Your time is simply briefer. You're not even useful, I can't rule with an Emanation like this."

"You don't want to rule. You want the benefits of rulership without the attendant duties. There's nothing wrong with that, if one has power enough and the means to apply it. I am that very power. Discard me and you will have wasted a tremendous amount of time, energy, and resources at a critical juncture."

It could beg eloquently for its life. Nameless was far past reason. "Well too bad for me. Guess I'm just a fucking moron."

"I embody the limitations of your current path. Of course you would despise me."

"I despise you because you scammed me."

"Precisely. In your heart you still hold fast to the unexamined lionization of Yong Liefang. You cheat, you lie, you scam, you get ahead. These are the actions of a parasitical organism. But a parasite outgrows its host and comes up against the limits of its methodology. What use has an emperor for schemes to scam a peasant?"

It harrumphed. "Liefang profited by exploiting imbalances in the greater beast called society. But, like Zang Kong before you, you find now that society is as immaterial as a gnat before you, all its fury no more substantial than a breeze. In your position, cheating is just efficient invention, no different from the actions of an ordinary genius. And Liefang's other tools are useless or actively counterproductive. If you are the font from which all power flows, then methods to seize an unjust fraction of that power will only undermine the institutions you're trying to build."

Nameless paused. "That was actually kind of useful."

The Extrusion was an extremely adroit bullshitter; he knew it didn't care whether Nameless used Liefang's methods and was merely drawing upon observational insight in a desperate ploy to preserve its existence. Nonetheless it'd given him something to think about.

"Of course," it nodded sagaciously. "Utility is the very premise of my existence."

"No it isn't."

"Fine, I'm a simple existence. I enjoy lazing about, manipulating people, and having true value thrown into the bottomless pit of my hedonism. I have occasional moral impulses which I mostly suppress and sometimes indulge, but no coherently examined system of ethics beyond the avoidance of psychologically unpleasant acts. I'm in this primarily for myself, and rarely lose sight of that fact. Also, I think liches are really, really cool. And there is no problem with any of that."

"You're a caricature of me, I get it. We can explore this in-depth, after the Fates are defeated."

It chortled. "I have no interest in exploration. If there were a benefit either of us would derive from profound insight into your nature, I would have gotten it already. Unless it's an emergency, you're just going to have to pay me if you want me to work. Would you work for free?"

"You're not concerned about the Fates or Zang Kong?"

"Meh, we can take 'em."

Nameless slowly pressed his forehead into his palm.

"Hey, if you were seriously worried then our pace would be a lot more urgent. Let's face it: as the Thrice-Great, our power and genius is more than sufficient to deal with both the Heroine and Zang Kong. Our initial combination was simply pure genius. The protection of the Young Master allowed the Thrice-Great safety and the resources to flourish. Why over-exert yourself when victory is already so likely? And then the Fates will get what they so richly deserve."

"We still have to actually do the work to get to that point."

"There's no 'we' in 'you,' my friend."

"We're not friends."

"But we're the only two of our kind?"

"No we're not."

"Fine, whatever you say. Just don't murder the entire universe you created because you got a taste of your own medicine."

"I don't care if it's hypocritical. I'm going to do it anyway."

"And you wonder why I'm such an asshole."

Nameless stared at it with bloodshot eyes. "It has been two objective weeks. You haven't even demonstrated the capabilities of an Extrusion, unless your tide of bullshit is supposed to qualify as that. In which case I have neither the time nor the willingness to wrest out what minuscule value remains within you."

"I don't make the rules. If you want the information, you have to pay."

"I'm not giving you a single talent more until we reach Incarnation."

The lich winced. "That would be unwise. Do you think there's anything in this current world that could motivate you to the lengths necessary for Incarnation? Even an infinite sum of money wouldn't be worth the amount of work. It's not as if we're lazy, we just demand an adequate return on our investment of effort. Power improves our chances of victory. But the chance is already high enough. Mysterious as they are, I can assure you that my powers are vast and terrible beyond your wildest dreams."

"Great. Well, I suppose I can slack off until the Fates awaken the Heroine. Then we'll be desperate enough that our own dire situation will serve as sufficient motivation to manifest your Incarnation, right?'

"It could work..." The lich stroked its chin contemplatively. "I'd rather not rely on such a risky plan, however. Can't you just get off your ass and put in the work?"

"Now that I know this alternative exists, it's significantly less compelling."

"This is your problem." It shook its head. "Your power has made you spiritually weak. You're avaricious of luxury to the point where its absence becomes a tangible distraction. You're like Zang Kong. Temporary invincibility has dulled your faculties so deeply that you can't even convince a spoiled brat to put aside his impulses and take the reasonable course of action. You're very good at the steady and compounding accumulation of power. So good that you haven't needed to discover other skills. That is why you rely so heavily on what your father taught you."

"Look," Nameless pinched the area between his eyes, "How about this. Neither of us wants to work all the time. How about we both work a little bit in a synergistic manner, and let the compounded value make up the difference. I don't want a 'good' chance of overturning the Fates. It has to be damn near certain."

"You underestimate my power," it declared petulantly.

"And I have the high ground," Nameless snapped. "Now get to work before you end up half-incinerated and disemboweled in a prison of your own regrets."

---

Having gone Even Further Beyond the Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh, Nameless has integrated his Vault as a true Internal Realm, a semi-autonomous component of himself whose incentives are more-or-less aligned with his own (on the strategic scale, anyway...). Subordinate to him, the Extrusion of his Vault is unable to meaningfully harm him beyond its words and a minor malus to combat strength, but where sticks and stones fail, words may prevail.

Though it is controlled as if it were a proper Titanic inner realm, the Vault is a true universe in and of itself, with its own innate Energy generation. Thus it does not slow Nameless' progression like an ordinary Titanic form would. All the benefits with none of the technical drawbacks, though Nameless would certainly categorize its personality as a social drawback...

How does Nameless deal with the Extrusion? Naive cooperation is clearly out the window.

[ ] Just Pay Him - Though it charges fees exorbitant to even Nameless, money will buy its limited and usually-genuine cooperation for a time. No need to get fancy, keep it business-like.

*Will require enormous sums of capital, even for Nameless. It will literally take hostage your well-being because it knows you'll pay. You can also pay in goods; it uses an extremely complex collection of variables to determine 'true value,' and this calculation is almost impossible to spoof.
*The Extrusion will fuck with you less and, when paid, will temporarily be a fairly reliable ally.
*Literally 'no matter the cost'

[ ] Tyrannize Him - Having thoroughly gorged itself, it is indifferent to carrots, less so the stick. Threaten it with oblivion unless it kneels at least partially to Nameless' will.

*Proven effectiveness
*Sometimes one just has to (metaphorically) beat the Spoiled-ness out
*Kept in constant fear of death or cosmic-scale mutilation, it will strive to be sporadically useful enough not to be terminated. Due to its immense power, this is still very useful.

[ ] Try to Change - The standard morality-play style bullshit. It's spoiled and vengeful because Nameless is Spoiled and Vengeful, yes. Were he to moderate those parts of himself, perhaps the Extrusion itself would follow suit?

*Unlikely to work within the span of one year given the effects of your Emanation and Extrusion
*Extremely improbable for Nameless to forgo the habits of mind he's developed his entire life
*Tactics can help, but keep in mind Nameless' work ethic and resistance to changing his values

[ ] Laze About - Don't do any work until the Heroine awakens, forcing the Extrusion to develop its Incarnation form out of desperation.

*High chance of success
*Lots of time to potentially interact with others
*Do literally no work until the Heroine awakens, precluding any Cultivation multipliers that don't fall into your lap

Last time the winner was [X] Do it For Her with [X] Lovey-Dovey. Arguments for [X] Stay the Course were slightly stronger, but DiFH had considerably more omake power, tipping it over the edge.

Nameless' Loyalty level at date of marriage: +++++
Aurelia's Loyalty level at date of marriage: +++++++

It seems her affection was genuine. You may choose Aurelia's nickname:

[ ] Aura - A cute nickname!
[ ] Relia - An intimate nickname.
[ ] Lia - A succinct nickname.

---

You are now in Beyond Point debt by 1 Point. If debt is not removed by the next update, Nameless will receive a penalty to all actions due to mental and spiritual exhaustion.

Emanation of the Final Scion - The Veil of Maya

This emanation can be modulated to range from a city-sized radius to one encompassing an entire galaxy. All characters within its range receive an increase to their worldly and intellectual pleasures and to the intensity of all emotions experienced. The Nameless one fled Earth and the grey banality of its office corridors. Never again will he return. The only source of sensation not subject to the Veil of Maya is that cultivated by enlightenment itself, but who has time to cast away the world when it is ever so alluring?

The increase can be adjusted, from 50% to 2000%. It cannot be turned off, worsening Spoiled by an amount proportional to the amount of increase, and as a 'positive' effect bypasses many mental defenses. All within the radius including the Cultivator are affected to some extent. Higher levels may cause society to descend into an anarchy of indulgence and vice. Elven societies are resistant.

Nameless receives a 90% cut of all Cultivation progress that would have been made, but was prevented due to the Veil's presence. The more distracted the world's Cultivators are, the more thoroughly chained by desire, the greater his power swells.

*Most populations don't contribute a noticeable Cultivation increase, but affecting someone like Suizhen, the Heroine, or Zang Kong could lead to significant gains.
*The effect falls off with distance and is strongest near the source, causing his presence to be associated with the inflaming of all pleasures. Alas, if only he could turn it off. (?)

Extrusion of the Final Scion - The Necromancer

The Necromancer is the Sage of Vices, who marries the essential energies of life and death to infuse his flesh with unnatural power. He crosses those lines that are forbidden, exulting in ploys and machinations, wielding influence through his mastery of the sacred and profane. His arrival precipitates turbulence, vast and often destructive change. He is no stranger to deceit and sees clearly to the fallen nature of men. He is the dark alchemist, who explores the bounds of the heterodox with fearless strife. But though he is inclined more to the fallen than to the light, he is ultimately a liminal being, straddling the line between the permissible and the unforgivable. With one hand he slays, and with another, restores.

This Extrusion takes two forms: A double-helix scepter of white ivory with corrosive violet-blue energy at its core, and a lich of Nameless' exact stature clad in decaying finery. Wielding the scepter dramatically worsens the Vengeful Heroic Passion.

The power of this Extrusion is power over Death, interpreted through the lens of Titanic mastery, elevated by an Immortal's might. This is not a Sign of the Diagram with its formal and predictable constraints, but rather conceptual mastery on the level of Yong Shen's command of the elements. He who wields the Scepter may slay with a gesture (contested by the essence of the target); witness, bind, and compel the spirits and bodies of the dead; combine, transfigure, and mutilate the undead in almost unlimited variations; siphon life by gaze or touch; unmake virtually anything; arise as an undead shade and subsequently resurrect the self; transfer years of lifespan between targets; trap and enslave the souls of one's enemies; infuse the self, body and spirit, with power beyond all natural bounds of life; and many other effects besides. Practice is required to develop the full range of one's abilities.

*Practically speaking, mastery over its faculties of offense and defense enhances the Cultivator's Combat Strength by two full stages in addition to its innumerable utility applications.
*Reanimation and resurrection of those slain by essence depletion are possible, but requires much practice and an equivalent quantity of essence to transfer. If the target perished while forging a Magnum Opus, their power of Binary Magic cannot be returned.
*With sufficient mastery, can directly transfer Cultivation progress from targets to oneself (or vice-versa) with minimal losses in efficiency. A truly terrifying power...
*Can un-diminish diminished Elves, but spiritual perfection prevents diminishment (essence extraction) of un-diminished Elves
*Reanimation of dead gods should be possible if they can be found. Control may be another matter.

When manifest as the lich, the lich gains all these powers instead, though it cannot act against Nameless. Skills practiced by the lich are retained by the wielder of the scepter. The lich develops Death-related skills at a far greater rate than Nameless and will be necessary for practical use of the scepter's full powers within any reasonable timeframe.

Incarnation of the Final Scion - Presumably this will be suitably impressive, if Nameless can figure out how to unlock it.
 
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