Even Further Beyond [Complete]

Hm, it would be convenient if summoning shades dovetailed neatly into resurrection. Nameless' self-resurrection requires rising as one first, so it'd fit. In many cases we're more interested in the informational benefits of having access to people anyway, for things like Diagrams and knowledge from dead gods. The latter we might not want to raise at all, but the carrot of true revival is a potent incentive. I could go for a chat with Elvegekere, personally. There's a lot he could potentially offer: a detailed accounting of the last war, advice on circumventing the Heroine's defenses, his spells (possibly free Further Beyonds), what the Throne of Stars was, the identity of previous Overlords... and firsthand information about the Divine Realm and the capabilities of its denizens, gleaned from his time as a Servant. Useful if we're planning an attack; if we kill the Fates first, does it still trigger Tribulation? It might not work, but even failure would be informative. If it does, well, we'd get to tell a man who's languished in Servitude for thousands of years that help is on the way. No Overlord left behind!

The current winning combination (Diligent + Pursuit) is pretty much the 'Immortal Awakening or bust' route, needing only Elder Beast for maximum synergy, so we'd be well served by going for essence extraction. Mastery of that implies its opposite, at least according to the Necromancer's blurb. The person I imagine Nameless would be most interested in resurrecting was slain by essence depletion in the process of creating a Magnum Opus, so I don't think we can bring Baenlixnaire back until we've got a handle on it. Undiminishing Elves is nice too, and not that expensive relative to our current level of progression, but unlikely to be terribly useful. They've given us what assistance they can, though I do wonder if there are any Artificers who prefer their current state. We could also try getting Flare and fueling it with transferred essence, though it seems like it'd benefit more from true understanding than just treating it as yet another problem to throw power at. Depending on the contents of our Wish, though, even the exorbitant costs of acting as Truth can be recouped.
 
Swapping from Palimpsest to Amplification in hopes of getting enough cultivation to reach Immortal Awakening before Kong.

[X] Pursuit of the Truth
[x]Strategic Complexion

[X] Open the Way
[X] Amplification
 
Resurrection is also just a fun power politically. Remember Simple Transaction?
"I am now one of the strongest power blocks in the world and I despise you and your side! You let my sister die via your inaction!"
"Oops my bad. I can bring back your sister from the dead are we cool?"
"...I-I guess."

Darn near everyone has lost a loved one somehow some way. Five hundred years of effort my replace lost prestige and effort and cultivation, but no amount of money or cultivation is going to bring back a loved one... unless you pay the Nameless Price.

Or maybe the Emperor pays us to kill him and then bring him back sans Crown who knows?
 
How unpleasant! Zang called him as fungible as any other functionary... what if we went in the opposite direction, and tried resurrecting previous Emperors and Empresses? How would it deal with the contradiction?
There can only be One! /j

But I'd assume it wouldn't do anything as the Mantle has passed on to the next person already since they defeated the prior holder.
 
We might be able to kill the Artifact itself with enough power and Necromancer mastery and undo the effect that way, but I expect that to be beyond the scope of the quest.
Honestly, the fact that Necromancer can absorb Cultivation has made very little beyond the scope of this quest. I think I have a vague build in mind for Nameless that can grow its number of Stages exponentially, and it's not even all that hard to notice (I have no doubt at least some of you out there are thinking the same thing as me right now). It's worse than that in that I'm all but sure we can do it if we try, though it would require investment, likely quite a few BP, and a workaround to one annoying issue which I have some ideas for but no solid solution to. But still, given time I expect we can pull something like that off, and, well, the Accursed was only Level 7.34*1034​. Doubling in Stage each day hits that (in Stages, which I'm assuming correspond roughly to Levels) within, well, 10 days per factor of 1024 gives 11*10=110 days to hit stage ~1033​, so that would have us hitting the Accursed's level in Stages within a year.

Obviously I expect we would start having issues with reality/Cultivation/whatever breaking down and/or someone relevant (that is, higher-power than the Stage we were currently at) noticing before that happened, but beyond the scope of this quest has the potential to be a really high bar to hit.
 
If Extra Diligent wins, which aspect of Necromancy should Nameless focus on first? Essence extraction, resurrection, defense/offense, summoning and binding of shades, something else? Since he himself is a psuedo-undead, the possibilities are nigh-limitless! With enough research, even self-bodily modification (though of a different species than the Palimpsest) could be on the table!
Soul attacks as a major focus, and essence extraction as a minor.

Kong is the Cultivation-needing threat, so getting Necromancer's cutltivation rate boost seems less relevant than strong esoteric offenses.
 
I don't think that's a good assumption. You get transfinite levels of power output around level one million, and I'm not sure Cultivation ever gets there.
On the other hand, levels don't tend to correspond to exponential gain, and we know each Stage is orders of magnitude above the prior --- level 7.34*1034​ isn't too different from level 7.34*1034​+1, in other words (given that Seram could actually fight higher-level enemies without just insta-dying), while the same in Stages would have the one-higher-(combat-)Stage character winning any confrontation, as long as they have Heavy Counter or something similar.

I also wouldn't assume Cultivation never hits transfinite power, or alternately, it may well never hit transfinite power but it brings its own rules to effectively treat everything like it had (exceptional) finite power. Reality Effects and Extrusions are things you can pick up which seem like they might be relevant to going transfinite, or alternatively pulling out things like Heavy Counter allows a Cultivator to just ignore esoterics like transfinite power in the face of a higher storage of Essence. It might take some effort, but I don't think it would be trivial to do that for levelling characters either, they would need to find their own abilities to give them that just like Cultivators would --- we just have a larger power supply to draw on. (Again, unless Cultivation just breaks down at some point, but All Paths Cultivation at least seems like it shouldn't.)
 
But I'd assume it wouldn't do anything as the Mantle has passed on to the next person already since they defeated the prior holder.
I would expect a ghost emperor is probably a melancholy figure defined by passions undiminished by death. Frustration, confusion, boredom and misery underneath a mask of dignity and industry - much as in life. As above, so below.
 
I don't think that's a good assumption. You get transfinite levels of power output around level one million, and I'm not sure Cultivation ever gets there.
Ah I think that was infinite force and whatnot at level 1 million; transfinite is different and used to describe a conceptual magical effect of ignoring obstacles. Exerting infinite strength destroys a universe like ours where exerting transfinite strength needn't do so. I believe an otherwise regular human whose strength can optionally ignore obstacles needn't have a very high level. The Siberian is an example of this plus a couple perks and while effective hardly dominates the entire verse and Rihaku said Scion would be level ~8000 on this scale.

I don't think we yet know whether the Energy of All and Nothingness is capable of supporting an ascension to an infinite amount of force. If we take the probably incorrect assumption that levels are a higher fidelity measure as Stages but otherwise the same exponential base, then we would, working from level ~500 as being the same as stage ~7.0*, have about 70 levels per Stage and thus expect to need to reach Stage 14300 combat power to ascend to infinite power.

*as the Cursebearer would have been approximately Low Titan power and around that level (I want to say it was 536 or something? this math is inherently flawed so I'm not going to bother finding the exact number)
 
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I would expect a ghost emperor is probably a melancholy figure defined by passions undiminished by death. Frustration, confusion, boredom and misery underneath a mask of dignity and industry - much as in life. As above, so below.
They may well be just like our current emperor, with no dignity or industriousness to speak of. Not like an emperor needs to work!

(Again, unless Cultivation just breaks down at some point, but All Paths Cultivation at least seems like it shouldn't.)
Laughing Vagabond guaranteed infinite growth capacity, or at least this looks like it.
*A Dao that, by definition, has no limit or end.
 
On the other hand, levels don't tend to correspond to exponential gain, and we know each Stage is orders of magnitude above the prior --- level 7.34*1034 isn't too different from level 7.34*1034+1, in other words (given that Seram could actually fight higher-level enemies without just insta-dying), while the same in Stages would have the one-higher-(combat-)Stage character winning any confrontation, as long as they have Heavy Counter or something similar.
Levels have been described as exponential, they're just finer-grained. A level gap of 30 is supposed to be close to insurmountable and each level conveys more power then the last.
Ah I think that was infinite force and whatnot at level 1 million; transfinite is different and used to describe a conceptual magical effect of ignoring obstacles
Transfinite and infinite are synonymous, and Rihaku uses them as such.
 
Transfinite isn't the same as infinite, even if they seem very similar. Transfinite is functionally (for most purposes) infinite, but not actually infinite.

Is there really a difference from being crushing by quadrillions of tons of force, millions of force or an infinite amount of force?
 
Transfinite and infinite are synonymous, and Rihaku uses them as such.
Ah so he does I guess. In that case it must be in what is meant by strength as the Monarch is very clearly not deploying transfinite quantities of energy.
None of the curses are absolute, but they are very powerful. For reference, a level ~one million character would qualify as 'infinitely powerful,' in the sense that they are able to deploy transfinite quantities of energy.

And levels are exponential, so the Accursed is not merely twenty-eight orders of magnitude more powerful than such a being.
Is there really a difference from being crushing by quadrillions of tons of force, millions of force or an infinite amount of force?
Yes, because you can have a magical power that only works on finite amounts of force.
Far more relevantly, we can talk about having an infinite quantity of Energy of All and Nothingness and be able to use any finite amount of it without slowing down our cultivation. (depending on how it's modeled and builds up and how we access it anyway)
 
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Unbounded isn't the same as infinite, though. It could well merely have the capacity to double in strength every year, which forever remains finite.
This wouldn't make much sense, seeing as levels are just exponential gains and qualitative bonuses much like Cultivation with Reality Effects/Artifacts/whatever you use instead is, but it is conceivably possible.

Levels have been described as exponential, they're just finer-grained. A level gap of 30 is supposed to be close to insurmountable and each level conveys more power then the last.

Ah, thank you. Some searching gives me the "level 1 million" quote, as well as the exponential levels quote:

None of the curses are absolute, but they are very powerful. For reference, a level ~one million character would qualify as 'infinitely powerful,' in the sense that they are able to deploy transfinite quantities of energy.

And levels are exponential, so the Accursed is not merely twenty-eight orders of magnitude more powerful than such a being.

Levels being exponential means they can reasonably be compared to Stages, though I rather think we have a good reason to believe Stages are larger --- a gap of one Stage is horribly insurmountable, ot the point of being incomparable, even if most of that is in the breakthrough. If we go with, say, a 20:1 Levels:Stages conversion (Seram peaked out a bit past level 100, so that would put him at Stage-equivalent 5, having started at Stage 1 --- seems about reasonable, I think?) that means we would reasonably expect to be breaking into the conceptual in everything around (effective combat? effective general?) Stage 1,000,000/20 = 50,000. Yeah, if we went for exponential growth we could reach that pretty quickly.

Of course, it's possible Cultivation peaks (at least effectively), but I would expect All Paths to work around that, given enough raw power to form your own Paths. (And maybe some research.) Not sure any of this is relevant, though, expect to note that with current abilities, we, as mentioned, seem to have the potential to actually reach the top ends of this power scale, and by this scale I don't mean this world's power scale, I mean the multiversal power scale. Of course, this all blows up if I did my math wrong somewhere, or some of my assumptions turn out to have no way to get them (and while that seems unlikely, I also doubt Rihaku would like us significantly sifting the course of his perfectly good multiverse only one quest after we met the Accursed).

Edit: Ah, the other reason to believe this wouldn't work:
Anyway, the space of alternatives where your complaint is not true is small and typically uninteresting. There is nothing interesting in reading about someone who exploits a recursive loop to become infinitely powerful, thus the universe was not designed that way.
So it seems pretty likely something would stop us, even if I don't know what. Well, unless the Cultivation-verse is made in a different way from the rest of the multiverse, I guess, though that seems unlikely. I guess maybe the fact that Cultivator growth speed and actual power aren't directly linked might contribute? Cursebearers grow based on their level, which accounts for everything they can do to increase their power, while Cultivators can get power vastly exceeding their stage --- see, for instance, All Paths, allowing us to potentially have approximately twice our actual Stage in effective Stages for all purposes if we take them all Stageless --- so maybe Cultivators should actually be able to keep up with the increasing difficulty of power gain, if they do everything right.
 
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