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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just because nothing is purely bad or purely good doesn't mean that all traits are equally balanced. Spoiled is far more bad than good from a lot of reasonable perspectives.
- Location
- United States
[X] Pursuit of the Truth
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Open the Way
[X] Palimpsest - Form of Balance [1 Beyond Point]
It seems better to try to be diligent rather than get Aurelia to do something she's not comfortable with. I'm also curious to see how Suizhen is coping with the recent marriage.
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Open the Way
[X] Palimpsest - Form of Balance [1 Beyond Point]
It seems better to try to be diligent rather than get Aurelia to do something she's not comfortable with. I'm also curious to see how Suizhen is coping with the recent marriage.
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- Location
- Australia
I actually want this for reasons different to what Rihaku has stated. In short, huge utility. While he does not state it, taking it should free up considerable amounts of time for everything else. Traveling to speak to Grandpa? Instant. Having a quick look at the Overgrowth? Drop there and back instantly with important strategic information. Very much a move that I think has huge hidden synergy with Strategic Complexion. However, if Rihaku mentions that it would not save significant time I would drop it for a different skill, then pick it up as soon we got True Incarnation. I honestly consider this a must have spell – the only question is if we need to have it during the time skip or shortly after.
Has synergy with everything, but particularly with Palimsest. THE choice to take if you are worried we will not hit IA, particularly with Elder Beast, if you can stomach what a true form devoted to nothing but raw energy accumulation will do. It sounds like at the very least it will give us some direct power, but likely to do very much more.
Gets almost an unfairly short description, given its stupidly high levels of power. Lets us farm doombeasts safely (I.e beat things as stronk as we are), makes us utterly immune to physical death while up. Really, the only reason not to take this is that we feel that we have enough raw power already. If we do not take Extra Diligent we should probably take this so that we have one proper Estoric Attack against the heroine that is reliable.
Potential power, potential power, potential power. Without a vault to farm beasties, this is your best bet for maximum cultivation passively while we do other things. Less useful if we are farming the overgrowth for beasts, and only has 'minimal' physical changes and 'minor' penalties to actually using our body for anything complicated. While a hell of a power choice, I dislike it massively, particularly thematically. I do not want to change us genetically to the truest form of a big energy battery with poor fine motor control.
Changes us genetically to the true perfect version of ourselves. While it does not offer the same cultivation bonuses as Elder Battery form, it instead gives us improvements to practically everything else as well. I strongly suspect that it would have a synergistic bonus with trying to improve ourselves mentally as well (for reducing spoiled, and doing Diagram research during this time skip), as well as probably giving intense social bonuses that would handily counteract those penalties from our eyes. I also suspect some tasty synergies between having the perfect body and being the true incarnation of ourselves mentally when ascending to immortality, but that could be wishful thinking. Even without this, it is my prime choice.
In short, I strongly recommend Form of Balance and either Open the Way or Amplification, leaning towards Open the Way.
I'd rather just go the distance ourselves with Extra Diligent than pick I'll Face Myself. Even if the likely result materializes and we remove Spoiled, will we have the freedom to put our nose to the grindstone afterward? Time isn't exactly a renewable resource here. The two options might combine well, but passing up even a chance at a Truth Diagram is an astronomical opportunity cost, and we've already done so once. Besides, time that Aurelia spends 'reforming' us has costs of its own, given her capabilities as a researcher and Naturalist. We both have better things to do.
Seriously people us we will leave pass the chance to remove Spoiled just because this opportunity comes from something external?
Not to mention that without this we do not have a confirmed way to remove Spoiled, already that Try to Change may fail and even if it works Rihaku already warned us not for expect results as early as 1-2 years.
Not to mention that without this we do not have a confirmed way to remove Spoiled, already that Try to Change may fail and even if it works Rihaku already warned us not for expect results as early as 1-2 years.
I doubt traveling the Empire takes up significant amounts of time at our level. The problem isn't getting there, it's the effort we'll have to spend on fixing whatever troubles have cropped up and need our intervention.
That was just a sloppy lead-in. Mea culpa. The point was that Spoiled is problematic due to being extreme, and that assuming its replacement would be less so is... well, an assumption. We might have the psychological fortitude. Aurelia may have that level of control. But we're not certain. I wouldn't gamble like that if it were Xiaoling or Suizhen holding the knife.
Maybe it's just aftershocks from Endless Sky. There's leaning on your friends, there's trusting them, and then there's asking too much of them. We're literally asking our wife to absolve us of our sins. That can't be cheap or easy, at least. I can understand doing it: I can't understand being comfortable with it.
- Location
- USA
How is having Aurelia remove Spoiled from us much different than having a hypnotist help you with your smoking addiction? Is there a danger of Aurelia going too far and removing too much of our ability to feel pleasure and leaving us too machine-like? In absence of that I don't have too much of a problem getting Aurelia's help and ridding us of Spoiled.
I think the real thing that needs to be addressed is Strategic Complexion. It's being hinted at pretty heavily that something is not right with Yong Shen. He lets the Overgrowth beasts encroach upon his land, he doesn't lift a finger as the Empire begins to see turbulence. We need to make the effort to see him now and find out exactly what is going on with our Family. Through them the Empire stands strong, without them things become much less certain.
[X] Strategic Complexion
[X] I'll Face Myself
[X] Open the Way
[X] Amplification
I think the real thing that needs to be addressed is Strategic Complexion. It's being hinted at pretty heavily that something is not right with Yong Shen. He lets the Overgrowth beasts encroach upon his land, he doesn't lift a finger as the Empire begins to see turbulence. We need to make the effort to see him now and find out exactly what is going on with our Family. Through them the Empire stands strong, without them things become much less certain.
[X] Strategic Complexion
[X] I'll Face Myself
[X] Open the Way
[X] Amplification
I find it amusing how just a couple of episodes ago a significant percentage of the voting base was deeply concerned that the swearing the Lover's Oath would result in us being brainwashed by Aurelia.
And now the winning vote is one where Aurelia brainwashes us.
Clearly our concerns were not unwarranted. Fucking waifus. As always, our greatest weakness.
And now the winning vote is one where Aurelia brainwashes us.
Clearly our concerns were not unwarranted. Fucking waifus. As always, our greatest weakness.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
[X] Strategic Complexion
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Palimpsest - Form of the Elder Beast [1 Beyond Point]
[X] Open the Way
I like Aurelia more and more. She even likes and understands our hedonism; she's a waifu after my own heart. Moon-tier definitely.
Anyway, I wanna meet Yong Shen. Increase to bodily actions is pathetic compared to Elder Beast, why are we trading a tripled or more increase to Cultivation rate for that and paying BP for the pleasure?
Open the Way can resist Kong's Extrusion, which is super good advantage in addition to being buffed Conjunctive Gate.
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Palimpsest - Form of the Elder Beast [1 Beyond Point]
[X] Open the Way
I like Aurelia more and more. She even likes and understands our hedonism; she's a waifu after my own heart. Moon-tier definitely.
Anyway, I wanna meet Yong Shen. Increase to bodily actions is pathetic compared to Elder Beast, why are we trading a tripled or more increase to Cultivation rate for that and paying BP for the pleasure?
Open the Way can resist Kong's Extrusion, which is super good advantage in addition to being buffed Conjunctive Gate.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
The best part is that she doesn't want to brainwash us, and we're asking her to do so.
[X] Pursuit of the Truth
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Open the Way
[X] Palimpsest - Form of Balance [1 Beyond Point]
Meh. Our Emanation is terrible for ruling but it's quite obvious that Nameless don't want to rule anything and I see no compelling reason to change that, he is enjoyable character as he is.
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Open the Way
[X] Palimpsest - Form of Balance [1 Beyond Point]
Meh. Our Emanation is terrible for ruling but it's quite obvious that Nameless don't want to rule anything and I see no compelling reason to change that, he is enjoyable character as he is.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
I think that Diligence is much better than I'll Face Myself.
Nameless' problem isn't with Spoiled, but rather with the negative effect it had on his work ethic.
Diligence focuses effort on mitigating lazy part of Nameless while leaving the enjoyable hedonist parts.
Remember, he is still sixteen and teenagers can change a lot on their own too.
I would prefer Nameless actually take strategic actions too, now that we need to prepare for the Heroine. It's time to engage with the Empire.
She's overall been a nice surprise and if she's anything like the Fairest Chosen I'm sad Uly didn't get to meet the Fairest now.
Nameless' problem isn't with Spoiled, but rather with the negative effect it had on his work ethic.
Diligence focuses effort on mitigating lazy part of Nameless while leaving the enjoyable hedonist parts.
Remember, he is still sixteen and teenagers can change a lot on their own too.
I would prefer Nameless actually take strategic actions too, now that we need to prepare for the Heroine. It's time to engage with the Empire.
I was pleasantly surprised by her liking our hedonism. It was gratifying since I was highly worried she would contaminate Nameless with temperance or similar.
She's overall been a nice surprise and if she's anything like the Fairest Chosen I'm sad Uly didn't get to meet the Fairest now.
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Aurelia is an elf and loves Nameless, flaws and all, with an intensity that most can hardly imagine and understand, let alone experience. Of course she doesn't think he needs to change, she likes him just the way he is and since we don't need it for power, she believes it is too radical a step unless he is really certain about accepting the consequences. But this isn't only about her, it's about Nameless. If he sincerely thinks that he needs to change and trusts his wife (which he should by now), then there's nothing wrong with a little supernaturally effective persuasion.
The problems I myself have with "I'll Face Myself" are somewhat different. The first is a matter of self-respect. Aurelia won't think in those terms and probably won't change her feelings, but we're essentially admitting we're too weak to control ourselves and need our wife to lead us by the hand through the process. I... Nameless' mentors have taught him pretty well that pride is only useful so far as it doesn't impede achieving one's objectives, but when actually presented with such an option, I find myself somewhat uncomfortable with it. Nameless will forever remember that he couldn't force himself to put in the effort and chickened out when it came to dealing with his vices. It might be better than still having those vices, but is strictly inferior to solving the problem on our own.
The question is if we're capable of that.
One other thing that makes me reluctant to take this option is this line:
The problems I myself have with "I'll Face Myself" are somewhat different. The first is a matter of self-respect. Aurelia won't think in those terms and probably won't change her feelings, but we're essentially admitting we're too weak to control ourselves and need our wife to lead us by the hand through the process. I... Nameless' mentors have taught him pretty well that pride is only useful so far as it doesn't impede achieving one's objectives, but when actually presented with such an option, I find myself somewhat uncomfortable with it. Nameless will forever remember that he couldn't force himself to put in the effort and chickened out when it came to dealing with his vices. It might be better than still having those vices, but is strictly inferior to solving the problem on our own.
The question is if we're capable of that.
One other thing that makes me reluctant to take this option is this line:
We'll be losing this if we shed Spoiled, and while there are a number of downsides to the Veil when misused, it can be employed positively and enhances Nameless' quality of life in a myriad of ways. It's not just a drug, though it is also that, which is why I'm still on the fence.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Yeah, intellectual pleasures are also philosophy, the arts, even writing!
The Veil of Maya could be very useful in creating a beautiful civilisation of supernatural aesthetes or encouraging Cultivators to a more philosophically minded society.
(I mean, being contemplative even helps at Grand Solipsism! Their rate of accrual of the Energy will tank, but mental development should overall increase)
It can be a force for good if we use it in limited ways and with Relia's stamp of moral approval.
The Veil of Maya could be very useful in creating a beautiful civilisation of supernatural aesthetes or encouraging Cultivators to a more philosophically minded society.
(I mean, being contemplative even helps at Grand Solipsism! Their rate of accrual of the Energy will tank, but mental development should overall increase)
It can be a force for good if we use it in limited ways and with Relia's stamp of moral approval.
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Alas, I wouldn't trust any civilization that doesn't possess self-restraint on the level of the elves not to descend into hedonism of the worst kind under the effects of the Veil. It's possible to steer it on the individual level, but I suspect most people will enjoy it for the drug it is, not the enhancer it can be. Intellectual pleasures sadly lose out to more basic ones all too often.
[X] Pursuit of the Truth
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Extra Diligent
Look, if you're fucking your brains you might as well do it properly!
That seems very unlikely from the Vault description. It amplifies ALL emotions, which would include negative ones. The description also explicitly mentions that it risks causing anarchy. It also can't be turned off, which might change if we remove Spoiled.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
If we use it in moderation (like 50% level increase) and strongly socially encourage a certain hobby like philosophy or art in society to vent the desire for intellectual pleasure it could be possible.
I realise it'd take a lot of social actions, but Nameless, Aurelia and Xiaoling are competent social operatives and so should be able to do social engineering on that level in our seat of power.
[X] Pursuit of the Truth
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Open the Way
[X] Palimpsest - Form of Balance [1 Beyond Point]
Balance give us social and physical activity bonus that synergy well with extra diligence and research for Truth.
I am torn between amp and way but choose way because want to go solve the problem directly at Overgrown later.
[X] Extra Diligent
[X] Open the Way
[X] Palimpsest - Form of Balance [1 Beyond Point]
Balance give us social and physical activity bonus that synergy well with extra diligence and research for Truth.
I am torn between amp and way but choose way because want to go solve the problem directly at Overgrown later.