Even Further Beyond [Complete]

  • Rihaku's post earlier in thread clearly implied that we will certainly get the spells, but that they won't be multipliers. Meanwhile, there is a real chance other Lich doesn't even exist
  • That makes absolutely no sense given the setting and its focus on individuals. Not like you need more than one army-buster anyway
  • Given that he is top tier Lich, that he is focused on offensive spells and Doom, it's very unlikely that we'll get better shoot at this
  • He was already unable to kill squad leader who is our equal in Cultivation, and we have Ring immunity and Unravel on top of that
  • Again incorrect. We are as strong as their leader, except we are also immune to Diagram spells and can use Unravel
  • We sure can. We don't need to spend BP on spells to make them amazing - and if we do, that's because they are good enough to be alternatives to the other BP options we have at hand
Xylitemmerral is unique time limited story event provided by our Second in command and two previous choices. It would be pretty silly not to take it.

Or it's bait to get us distracted by a shiny and take our eye off the main prize.
  • Could you quote where it said we would certainly be getting the spells from the Arch Terrorist.
  • We know that there are armies of low level Cultivators running around, as we'd have been commanding such a force if we'd gone to Yongshan
  • He is focused on the kind of offensive techniques designed to kill Cultivators and kill cities. What need has he for esoteric Diagram based attacks when they're pointless against Cultivators that are actual threats to him?
  • He is besieging the Cultivators in their city, behind their defences. They aren't trying to beard him in his tower where he's going to be strongest, they're waiting for reinforcements.
  • Nameless is low to mid Dao Cleaving against Cultivators. We don't know how strong he is against Liches, although we can hope that he's the same. We know that it's expected to take multiple peak Dao Cleaving Cultivators, and Nameless is not close to that strong. The Ring is neither here nor there, as we know that direct Diagram magic based attacks are almost irrelevant against Cultivators of that grade.
  • We won't have the other BP based options at hand if we go after the Arch-Lich first, We have to spend BP at the point we learn them, and if we manage to defeat/bargain with him it will be before we resolve the situation with the local lich. It's too likely that the lure of the shiny will be too strong and then we'll end up looking at an amazing utility Further Beyond we have no hope of affording.
What we probably should do is not get distracted, finish up our business here, and then harvest the wreckage that the Arch-Terrorist leaves behind for Diagram or to get a lead on where his phylactery and Diagram Vault is.
 
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Actually, come to think of it @Rihaku

What kind of mechanism could we actually employ to revise Suizen's Foundation? If anyone can do it, it's us after all.

An Artifact of sufficient power could do it. With Archsmith you're almost guaranteed to be able to do it given enough time and resources.

Reasons to go to Xylitemmerral:
  • We actually 100% know that Lich is there, no risk of wasting our time
  • Top tier Lich means top tier spells and cool Artifacts to boot, accept no substitutes
  • Best offensive spells we can get out hands on, can be combined later with Artifacts for maximum Heroin-killiness
  • Offensive focus gets countered by our Ring
  • We get to play big damn heroes, earning us ton of reputation and brownie points
  • Chance to win it all - if we play our cards right, we might even manage to run back in time to meet second Lich, provided he's there
  • We might learn how to make teleporting flying fortress of doom
  • Bully Xylit over his Arch obsession

Also, Save/Eat voters might want to consolidate at some point, assuming that both groups are against giving our power away.

Hm... I believe at least part of the Save voters are motivated by a desire to give Zang Kong no hooks whatsoever, even theoretical, into the character. That would be pretty irreconcilable with Eat.

Can we get a confirm from @Rihaku on how Suizhen's development is Fated? Just so we know whether our investments into her will be significant in the grand scheme of things or not.

Your investments, both in her power and loyalty, are not superfluous.
 
[X] Investigate Xylitemmerral
[X] Give to Suizhen


This is a Tactical Vote

Ultimately, the current winning combination is a combination I consider to be countersynergetic, and with the confirmation that Rihaku gave to us that any loyalty and power buffs we get to Suizen now are not going to be superfluous when things get crazy, it encouraged me to push this way.

This gets us an--at minimum Combat Prowess 3.5 bodyguard with a net ++ Loyalty. It also activates and develops the Eyes of Kong, which have been strongly suggested to be her cheat-like power that makes her a Hero of the Age. We already know that one way it can develop is to identify the energies that the Diagram utilizes, and to counter them proactively thanks to this--and that was an upgrade that wasn't fueled by a Priceless Treasure that's exceptionally well suited for her body and development. If the activated Eyes of Kong serve as an Effective Combat Level Buff, we might get a second Dao Cleaving combattant in our party--and it'd make pushing for a Foundation Revision for her even more valuable, as we'd finally have another fighter on Nameless' level, not to mention the Loyalty buffs that'd come with it. Combine this with the ridiculous amount of political capital we'd get by subduing a rampaging Lich, and we'll be able to start building our reputation as an intrepid band of young experts--the very best and brightest the Empire has produced.

Plus, that crown looks amazingly appealing. Either as something we can actually use for ourselves, or something we can use to get an early Organ Refining Perfection on the way to True Alchemist--if sacrifice is what creates Essence after all, the willing sacrifice of a Magnum Opus (Or at least just a mighty elven smith's relic) is something that'd likely push us up to the 6.5 grade we'd need to Perfect Organ Refining--and if those benefits are comparable to what we got from Perfecting the Ego Barrier, we'd be up to Reality Forming effective combat strength right then and there.
 
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A very good reason to save the Pearl for now is what great urgency do we have in giving her the upgrade now. We don't know what will happen in future, so we don't know whether we might suddenly have an emergency need for someone who isn't Suizhen to get a sudden boost in Cultivation.


This is a Tactical Vote

Ultimately, the current winning combination is a combination I consider to be countersynergetic, and with the confirmation that Rihaku gave to us that any loyalty and power buffs we get to Suizen now are not going to be superfluous when things get crazy, it encouraged me to push this way.

This is also a high risk vote that could leave us with nothing at all. The votes were previously close enough that the argument strength could easily make the

[] Confront the Bleak Ravens
[] Save It​

option win. If you switch however, that's much less likely to happen. Now you've started the bandwagon of switching, it's probably all over, unless you reconsider. There was literally two votes between the top and bottom options for the Pearl.

This could easily mean giving up on the local lich, and potentiall on getting Cultivation modifiers, in favour of going all in on Diagram Magic

An Artifact of sufficient power could do it. With Archsmith you're almost guaranteed to be able to do it given enough time and resources.

I wonder if the most efficient way to do it might be to have her chose a specific kind of Dao, such as rebirth, or refining, and give her the right kind of Artifact she can use the moment she breaks through into Dao Cleaving to allow her to rebuild herself from the ground up.
 
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Or it's bait to get us distracted by a shiny and take our eye off the main prize.
  • Could you quote where it said we would certainly be getting the spells from the Arch Terrorist.
  • We know that there are armies of low level Cultivators running around, as we'd have been commanding such a force if we'd gone to Yongshan
  • He is focused on the kind of offensive techniques designed to kill Cultivators and kill cities. What need has he for esoteric Diagram based attacks when they're pointless against Cultivators that are actual threats to him.
  • He is besieging the Cultivators in their city,
  • Nameless is low to mid Dao Cleaving against Cultivators. We don't know how strong he is against Liches, although we can hope that he's the same. We know that it's expected to take multiple peak Dao Cleaving Cultivators, and Nameless is not close to that strong. The Ring is neither here nor there, as we know that direct Diagram magic based attacks are almost irrelevant against Cultivators of that grade.
  • We won't have the other BP based options at hand if we go after the Arch-Lich first, We have to spend BP at the point we learn them, and if we manage to defeat/bargain with him it will be before we resolve the situation with the local lich.
What main prize? Random Lich that is maybe there?
  • Are you not familiar with what "implied" means? Rihaku talked how spells Xylitemmerral offers are not multiplier based and that's something we should take in consideration - that implies that we can get spells to begin with
  • Which doesn't address the point i made. He doesn't need to care about weaker dudes and only really needs three spells to deal with them. That's how this genre works
  • That is implying that esoteric attacks can't be danger to Cultivators - both Crown and Mordant Fire doe more than just damage, so that's 2/2. Diagram in general favors esoteric effects
  • Yes?
  • I just love how you outright ignored Unravel. And no, immunity against Diagram is not irrelevant against someone who focuses on offense - likewise, other Cultivators are not immune to Diagram, but to effects most Diagram can produce. There's no point in trying to indirectly target them
  • We are not forced to spend BPs bud. If presented options are worse than Vault, Might or what have you, then we will just not spend BPs. If they are amazing, then we got what we came for.
Hm... I believe at least part of the Save voters are motivated by a desire to give Zang Kong no hooks whatsoever, even theoretical, into the character. That would be pretty irreconcilable with Eat.
I meant either way. To be honest, i'm so so on consuming the Pearl myself - i'm mostly up for it because i want to create Artifact so we can Go Beyond OR as soon as possible.

Needless to say, i'm not up for crippling our growth third update in a row.
 
I think the odds are limited in that case. He's still unable to defeat the Dao Cleaving commander despite all of his advantages, and we're functionally operating at Mid Dao Cleaving with a x6 speed modifier. We also can counterspell External Magics, and we should have a distinct speed advantage on him between our Functional 4.5 combat strength and the Full Potentiated Quickening.

Like, he's not an insignificant threat, but we're running a build that would be a right bitch for him to defeat.
 
Penumbra is derived from paene and umbra, an 'almost shadow', the grey area between total obscurity and light where possibility resides. The obvious interpretation is that this refers to the Border Zone, the intersection between ruin-studded Vane and the primal Overgrowth. Wild, rife with possibility, a frontier far from what most would call civilization, where those who're willing to risk terrorism can carve out fiefdoms for themselves. Now that we know more about the Bleak Ravens, it seems to match their capabilities better. Auguries, shadow-manipulation, and so on. Even unreliable foresight is a borderline outside context problem for Cultivators, who are limited to their Dao-derived abilities. It's no wonder the Ravens are the dominant Sect in the region.

We should be able to fearmonger their rivals into acting, though. If the Patriarch's first act on attaining Reality Forming was the immediate elimination of competition, the survivors could very well be next if he stabilizes his foundation and emerges resurgent. The implicit support of Ming and Yong will push any fence-sitters to seize the day, and hopefully the massed forces of their enemies will provide a suitable distraction. Discarding diplomacy is unfortunate, though, since that was one of the perks of Direct Investigation. This could go poorly if the lich is cooperating with the Patriarch for whatever reason, though the Diagram-afflictions targeting lower level officers and exsanguinated Ravens found nearby are promising signs (lower-case s, sadly). With enough creative liberties taken (lying is so gauche!), this could be construed as a rescue attempt. We coopted local Sects and pitted the Cultivators against each other to break the siege of the lich's sanctum. That's our story, and we're sticking to it.
Southern Vane had not the Center's engulfing majesty or Northern Yong's pastoral vividness, but possessed an eccentric charm of its own, an air of bombed-out serendipity that reminded him of pictures he'd seen of post-WWII Europe. Moldering ruins and fantastical oddities abounded, set against a backdrop of rolling farmland and quaint, Western-style villages. Larger cities were partially colonized by the Imperial 'oriental' aesthetic, but it was more architectural symbiosis than homogenizing plague. Clocktowers of weathered marble rose statesmanlike over the courtyards of Daoist temples; lichen-crusted fortress walls loomed protectively over open bazaars, markets alive with the scurrying of rickshaws and the clamor of haggling merchants.
Less enterprising vibrancy than we were led to believe, but the imagery is vivid and compelling, if bittersweet. There's no conflict of culture, no need for the Cultivators to assert themselves by aggressively erasing the legacy of their predecessors. In a way, the elegant symbiosis is even more depressing for what it represents. The land is gradually reclaiming the last vestiges of the Age of Truth. When erosion has worn away the sigils and moss swallowed the last of the towers, who will remain to remember? Just us? If we pass on the teachings of the Diagram, are our students also subject to the Doom?
There was something whimsical, yet deeply melancholy about the land. Northern Yong as-yet lived its high noon, but the sun had long set on Southern Vane. Outside the extravagant Ruby Court itself, the region sported very few Cultivator cities, for any mid-sized settlement that failed to contain a Dao Cleaving-or-higher expert was under the remote but menacing prospect of Diagram Lich attack.
Amusing that Dao Cleaving Cultivators are effectively nuclear deterrents, hoary monsters in whose shadow a city can safely shelter, and we've rocketed straight up to that level. Mother was considered the greatest prodigy of the White Orchid Sect, given the title of Assassin-Princess, and she's only at the peak of Dao Cleaving. Maybe not even that, at the time of her defection.
Yong Clan headhunters of the Reality Forming stage could slay Diagram terrorists without locating their phylacteries, but few other paths of Cultivation demonstrated so comprehensive an offensive ability, and Northern Yong was literally halfway across the world.
Hm, it might be worth looking up other members of the Clan in the area, to see if they have any leads on spells from liches that they've killed. It's depressing to think that there are sanctums out there with shattered phylacteries, forgotten and unlooted because a headhunter applied fist to face and moved on.
But now, at long last - six months of travel by the Imperial Calendar, many multiples of that considering his time dilation - he'd made it to his first destination. The Border Zone between Southern Vane and Eastern Kong sported a ragged gradient where Southern ruins faded into the Overgrowth. Here, interactions between the exotic magics of prior ages and the robust wildlife of Kong spawned a multifarious domain of formidable beasts, monster-infested dungeons, and potent-but-poisonous vegetation. A spiritual bramble thicket, far from the few Kong cities or the concentrated power of the Ruby Court, teeming with abominations that frequently sported esoteric capabilities.
Sounds like a good time for all involved. Yongshan was a popular option discarded for its lack of synergy with Nameless' strengths and spoiled nature, but we seem to have reached a compromise option, however circuitous the path.
For low-level Cultivators, a locale not worth the risk of exploitation, despite its relative abundance of resources. For the mighty, a distant and politically marginalized zone not worth the time to explore. For Nameless - an immortal psuedolich, immune to offensive Diagrams, with no vital organs in his flesh body - it was nearly perfect. It was likely that other Diagram liches believed the same. If he dug deeply enough, he expected to find a Diagram stronghold in a pocket dimension anchored here, containing peers and contemporaries of his ancient mentor. Whether they received him fearfully or well, he would extract what secrets he could before they perished.
It'll be a bit awkward if they ask for our assistance, seeing as they're irrevocably Doomed.
The minor city of Deplian was the closest outpost to this section of the border, a regional river port and trade hub defended (and contested) by four minor Sects with Patriarchs in the mid-to-high Dao Cleaving stage. An unusually powerful Cultivator presence for this area, and the surrounding territory was relatively barren - picked clean - as a result, but a day's teleportation from here would bring one into pristine wilderness.

Boasting a population of three million mortals within the city proper, it contained the bare level of infrastructure that a Ming Princess might find acceptable. It was here that he had asked Xiaoling to meet them, and already at this distance he could see the wake of disarray generated by her arrival.
I guess it takes a trade hub to accommodate the heiress to the Trade Throne.
"Xiaoling doesn't get along well with others," he said offhandedly to Suizhen. "When we get there, hang back at first and let me handle her."
Good to see we're anticipating the conflict and planning for how to handle it.
"Of course, sir!" Suizhen saluted. "I'm content to be left alone to further my training. B-besides, I'm a bodyguard. You should only rely on me when diplomacy turns out poorly!"
Little bit of insecurity showing through. For someone nominally from a Great Clan, Suizhen's not very cultured. She stammers and falls back on formalities like the employer-bodyguard relationship to make up for her social shortcomings. It's not endearing, exactly, but it humanizes her. I wouldn't have anticipated this just from reading the Prodigy blurb.
"I certainly can't rely on you to protect us against scams," he needled gently. Suizhen stiffened, embarrassed.
She should be careful of senbon; way too easy to needle.
"S-sir! You could have told me that those 'Spiritwood fruits' were but normal cherries! Does not your Ring allow you to see through all manner of illusion?"
...really not very cultured. How much does she know about the Ring, anyway? Categorical illusion immunity would explain its eye-catching nature and make it a valuable treasure, but not one incredible enough to inspire theft or murder.
"One could say the same for the eyes of Kong," he observed. "But there's nothing wrong with overpaying a bit for some fresh cherries. They were well-grown and delicious. Besides, the only way you could have made that mistake honestly was if you'd never had any before, and who am I to deny my diligent bodyguard an expansion of her culinary horizons?"
Nameless is a real saint, providing valuable life lessons and letting some of his wealth trickle down to the common man. I wonder why he allowed it. Just for the sake of Suizhen's education, to reward a good scam well-executed? Was he impressed with the sheer audacity of trying to pass cherries off as 'spiritwood fruits'?
"But we're already low on money as it is..." Suizhen slumped. "Sir, you're consuming so many materials on your own, is it really alright to spend so much on me as well? At this rate I'll never work off my debt! To say nothing of your Quickening fee..."
Our Quickening fee, huh? I can see how she's racked up such a huge debt. I shouldn't be surprised that we charge for that, since it's taxing for Nameless, but I'm impressed at his shamelessness. Will we ask the Sect Patriarchs we plan to empower to pay as well? Maybe grudgingly offer them a discount, since we're allies?
"That is the plan," he nodded sagely. "But really, Suizhen, two centuries' wages is nothing. Anything less than a millennium is an eyeblink in the life of a Titan, and I'm sure your rates will increase as you grow in power."
Suizhen's voracious consumption of Cultivation resources was cited as a downside for picking the Prodigy. She raises a valid question; is it really all right to invest so much into her? "If you owe the bank ten thousand dollars, the bank owns you; if you owe the bank a million dollars, you own the bank," as the saying goes. But without that same investment, will she even be useful? If we investigate Xylitemmeral, she's superfluous; if we go for the Vault, she stays behind. At this rate, how will she ever kill Kong Zang? Suizhen is the sort of person to pick the Geas of Indenture, though. Mortgage her future to pay for the present? Sounds like a bargain to her! The color scheme even matches.
He paused. "I still can't believe you've never eaten a cherry before. Does the house of Kong truly suffer from such grievous deprivation? Is his tyrannical denial of foodstuffs the reason you want to off your old Patriarch?"
When you live in the Overgrowth, I imagine anyone who experiments by random fruits without Forbidden Techniques dedicated to withstanding poison is quickly culled by natural selection.
"I could add it to the list," Suizhen joked happily. Her mood was generally positive now that she'd broken into Soul Chrysalis. By anyone's standard, his bodyguard was an immaculate prodigy, though he was a bit concerned that she wouldn't be able to benefit from his Ego Barrier revision.
Being able to joke about her vengeance is impressive. Some of her amiability can probably be traced back to the need to keep her designs a secret or risk being executed for treason. Now that she's found someone she can reveal everything to, she's overcompensating and excusing our manipulations for the sake of preserving what might charitably be called a friendship. Convenient for Nameless, though.
They moved down into the city proper, and Xiaoling greeted him outside the steps of Deplian's largest hotel, a middling fifty-story affair built into the foundations of an old Diagram fortress. She had, of course, rented the entire thing.
Speaking of overcompensating, the entire hotel? Surely her luggage doesn't take that much space. Why even bother with it all? Even Kayneth only booked the top twenty-four floors of the Fuyuki City Hyatt Hotel.
"Unloved child!" She shrieked gleefully, gathering up her skirts and rushing down to embrace him. "It's been far too long."
Not having a name is convenient in some ways, I guess. Each friend can pick the euphemism that best represents our relationship. Sir for Suizhen, Unloved Child for Xiaoling, Nerd Boy for Liefang, and so on.
"Spoiled brat," he said, returning her hug affectionately. "And how are you? Not suffering too terribly, I hope."
Hey, it takes one to know one. Pot, meet kettle.
Her ears had been allowed to grow, he noted, and were now disguised by a minor but true Artifact, a thin golden choker. A product of her mysterious mother?
Hm, they've met before? Or is he just going off of descriptions in her letters? The Artifact is interesting; being willing to siphon off a fragment of your soul to protect your child is the gold standard for parenting. Not unusual for an elf, but I wonder about Xiaoling's father? Elven charisma is purportedly impressive. Is he using Xiaoling as a surrogate for his elven waifu, doting on her as the living representation of their love?
"I'm put out," she replied, doe-like eyes flashing. "Not only were you late, forcing me to subsist within this hovel, but now I see you've picked up a stray! Why didn't you mention her in your letter?"
I suppose you could call Suizhen's loyalty dogged, but I'd like to avoid comparing Nameless to Imperia, however obliquely. They did both sacrifice their names for power, though...
"She's my bodyguard," he replied, amused. "The genius, if you recall. Suizhen broke through into Soul Chrysalis last month, a day before her fifteenth birthday."
What is the calendar here, anyway, apart from one of Grandfather's many titles? Did the Divinities just steal it from Earth?
"Ah," Xiaoling sniffed disdainfully. "It's good she's blessed with something. The girl is rather plain."
And so it begins, the shot heard around the world thread. The opening salvo of the waifu wars.
"I find her eyes very striking," he teased, turning and waving to Suizhen.
Blue is Nameless' favorite color. If only Suizhen's eyes could literally strike people down. Who knows, maybe the Sharingan parallels will continue and she'll develop the ability to set people on fire by glaring at them? That'd be nice.
Xiaoling, if he were to be frank, was indeed a heart-stopping beauty, even among the noble ladies of the Ming Court. Her light brown hair, pale green eyes, and near-translucent skin made her partial elven heritage very clear; that heritage, in conjunction with her intimidating looks and ferocious personality, had driven away most of the would-be allies and admirers in their peer group.
Green eyes fit the catty, jealous demeanor.
She had been a generous and gregarious child, openly disclosing her half-elf ancestry to him when they'd first met, but the official story was that she was only one-eighth elven (an acceptable degree of deviance for an heiress of the Trade Throne). Many of her friends of lower stature, to whom she had also disclosed the truth, had been assassinated in order to maintain the pretense. The distraught Xiaoling was subsequently spoiled by her apologetic father, and she learned that a combative stance towards others was safer for all involved. Habit became character, and Xiaoling's original open-hearted motivations had perhaps been forgotten along the way.
Without the previous experience of a past life to temper Heroic Passions and inundated with luxury, it's a wonder Xiaoling turned out so well. Perhaps her original character isn't as buried as Nameless thinks. Her history explains why Seconding her improves her disposition, though, since she can discard the combative habits originally intended to protect people. Suizhen and Xiaoling both have secrets that present barriers to closeness.
"Eyes of Kong," Xiaoling said, studying his bodyguard. Her own eyes narrowed in response. "And of that purity grade... I recognize her. She's from the Sui family branch, isn't she? I thought Zang Kong had exterminated them for treason."
Hey, it's not a proper culling unless you leave a survivor to live a long and unsightly life, hating and cursing you. For bonus points, call her a "foolish junior sister." Her survival is a bit suspicious, in-context. Heavenly intervention might explain it, but perhaps the excuse employed was that she's one of the Experimenter's projects? Another poetic death, Kong Zang sowing the seeds of his own destruction.
"It was some kind of experiment, from what I've gathered," Nameless replied. "But yes, treason against one's Marquis was the official story. Suizhen wasn't implicated, her parents were."
With Zang, it being an experiment is the safe bet.
"Enough about her," he said sharply, "What about me? And more importantly - the presents you've surely bought for me. Let's get to it! Emperor knows I only put up with you for your money..."
Swearing by the Emperor, huh? With his rumored powers of surveillance, I guess he does make a 'good' non-interventionist deity.
"Oh, that reminds me!" Xiaoling squealed, slapping a hand against his torso. "I found a new palanquin that's absolutely divine! You simply must see it, I've had an exhibition built on the 37th floor. You'll never guess where I dredged this up..."
Absolutely divine? Hopefully this is metaphorical, otherwise we should steer clear for fear of traps!
Nameless beckoned Suizhen over and headed into the hotel-fortress. It was good to be back in civilization, he mused, if only for a spell.
Heh, we are here for spells... I'll show myself out.
"...And you must be the bodyguard!" Xiaoling said sweetly, but with an air of appraisal. It was some hours into the tour, and the first time she'd acknowledged Suizhen's existence.

Somewhat taken aback, Suizhen merely nodded.
Too much to hope the temporary armistice would hold.
"What a delightful outfit," Xiaoling continued, stalking a semi-circle around her newest victim. "It looks so... practical."
Out come the claws.
"Thanks!" Suizhen perked up. "I really like it. Yours is beautiful too, but how do you fight in heels?"
You know, from someone else this could be a devastatingly catty rebuttal that casts aspersion on their combat skills, but Suizhen's entirely genuine.
"Oh, you poor thing," Xiaoling shook her head consolingly. "That's what a change of outfits is for. I suppose you mustn't have had much opportunity for that. Don't worry, we must all play to our strengths... your case is simply more literal than others'."

"Um..." Suizhen faltered, somewhat confused. "I, I guess? I mean, I'm happy to be strong?"
Did she really not expect this? We even went to the trouble of warning her.
"Of course you are, dear, it's not like he hired you for the conversation," Xiaoling dismissed, turning back to Nameless.
For someone who doesn't practice Five Elements, Xiaoling's quick with the burns.
"You know she's going to be carrying our luggage," Nameless pointed out.
I would lament the lack of the Vault, but Suizhen carrying our stuff is better for inter-party relations than the three of us cooped up in there.
"All the more important that she be strong," Xiaoling replied airily. "And now, Unloved Child: I have been an absolutely wonderful hostess to you, catered to your every want, anticipated your every need-"
Our every need save for civility and refraining from alienating critical assets, that is.
He nodded. "Yes, everything has been perfect despite our being forced to live in a hovel. Good job!" He gave her a cheesy thumbs-up.

Xiaoling rolled her eyes. "I'm adrift in the winds of your flattery. But have you really not gotten anything for me?" She pouted beseechingly.

He thought for a moment, then indicated himself with a flourish. "Ta-da! It's me, your only friend!"
Okay, I laughed. Their banter is enjoyable despite Suizhen being sidelined. She's had a lot of screentime anyway; Jiarong would have made a better third wheel.
She sniffled. "You wound me so deeply..."

"I'm my father's son," he admitted. "Scum of the earth, the worst dregs of Yong."

"Absolutely heartless," she accused.

"The Mountain's Refuse, they call us. To press against us is to sink into trash."
A great line improved by the fact that Nameless pulls her into a hug next.
Xiaoling snorted and he pulled her into a hug. "The truth is," he whispered, "I did get you something. But it's so much better than the crap you've gotten me that I haven't felt like bringing it out. A giant gold-plated Diagram, really? So, if you want to see it, you'll have to do me a favor."

"You didn't like the Diagram?" She whispered concernedly.
This is all fairly lighthearted, but Xiaoling has rolled out the red carpet for us, at least as much of it'll fit in Deplian. Information is more useful than a gold-plated Diagram, but both are tokens of her goodwill, and I suspect she'd be genuinely hurt if we didn't appreciate them. Nameless being her 'only friend' is a joke, right up until it isn't.
"I love the Diagram," he reassured, "but it's still nowhere near as spectacular as my gift. Therefore I'll need that favor."
We do love the Diagram, don't we? If you squint, this could viewed as a comparison between the two branches of magic, but that's probably reading too much into it.
"Well," she said with mock umbrage, "my wish is your command, then."

"Be nicer to Suizhen."

"You ask too much."

"I didn't say to be nice. Just... a medium amount nicer. Can you do that? For me?"

"Begging for mercy on her behalf?"
Hey, it's not like she's got any proficiency in that area herself! If only we had Jiarong, now he knew how to properly grovel...
"That's right."

"Hmph. I suppose if it's a request from my... only friend," she said haughtily, "then in... desperation not to lose your friendship, I must accede."
It's good that Nameless is addressing the issue early on and Xiaoling is being reasonable about this. Before we revealed the gift, too, which speaks well of her character.
"Just as planned," he said smugly. She swatted him on the arm.

"Ow!" Xiaoling looked at her hand. "You monstrous beast, you've hurt me. Did you complete that flesh-reinforcing Diagram you were dreaming about?"
Hurting Xiaoling right after she granted us a favor? Nameless really is scum; his ingratitude knows no bounds.
"I learned to Cultivate," he said. "And, I discovered a stage between Ego Barrier and Organ Refining. Diagram Mages can access it."

"You what?"

"Don't worry, half-elves can access it too."
I see we were inspired by the WWII comparisons our jaunt through the countryside of Vane elicited and planned a verbal bombing run of our own. Shame we don't see her full reaction, but 'what' kind of says it all. Two impossibilities revealed in as many sentences.

---

1833 words.
 
[X] Investigate Xylitemmerral
[X] Give to Suizhen

Kakashi and Sasuke team up to fight against... lich dude.
I am not good at Naruto references.
 
What are you guys looking to go for from our Reality? Synergy effects? Esoteric offense? The Power of Friendship? The Primordium of our Grandfather? A monument to text-based waifus? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

NB: some of these are probably a bad idea
 
What are you guys looking to go for from our Reality? Synergy effects? Esoteric offense? The Power of Friendship? The Primordium of our Grandfather? A monument to text-based waifus? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

NB: some of these are probably a bad idea

I don't find it a coincidence that True Alchemist coincides with the start of Dao Cleaving. Three perfected Cultivation States using a harmony of Alchemy, Theurgy, and Astrology, merging into a single ultimate Form through which to build a World upon.

It seems pretty obvious though. The nature of our Reality is the Philosopher's Stone.

First, be recognized as a True Alchemist. A sage who has learned how to harmonize the elements of the world into greater forms. At that point, you have the right to craft a Philosopher's Stone through which you can distil the Elixir of Immortality. Make use of that correctly, and you can reign forever as a true [Philosopher-King]
 
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I have to admit that my main disappointment is that I put quite a lot of time and thought into tactics that we could use against the Bleak Ravens, and now they're pointless, as we're discarding that opportunity and the intelligence we've spent a couple of weeks gathering in favour of a random shiny.

What main prize? Random Lich that is maybe there?
  • Are you not familiar with what "implied" means? Rihaku talked how spells Xylitemmerral offers are not multiplier based and that's something we should take in consideration - that implies that we can get spells to begin with
  • Which doesn't address the point i made. He doesn't need to care about weaker dudes and only really needs three spells to deal with them. That's how this genre works
  • That is implying that esoteric attacks can't be danger to Cultivators - both Crown and Mordant Fire doe more than just damage, so that's 2/2. Diagram in general favors esoteric effects
  • Yes?
  • I just love how you outright ignored Unravel. And no, immunity against Diagram is not irrelevant against someone who focuses on offense - likewise, other Cultivators are not immune to Diagram, but to effects most Diagram can produce. There's no point in trying to indirectly target them
  • We are not forced to spend BPs bud. If presented options are worse than Vault, Might or what have you, then we will just not spend BPs. If they are amazing, then we got what we came for.

    • It may be possible to get them. That doesn't make it certain
    • We don't know what the amazing Cultivation boosting options are, because we've never seen them.
    • Esoteric effects aren't meaningful against reasonable level Cultivators.
    • The spell description itself says 'The arts of the Diagram are resistant to dispellation, but Sigils and Battle Diagrams can be weakened (if already cast) or countered (if being cast).' And Diagram Mages have presumably gone to war before, and know how to deal with dispelling opponents.
    • We don't know what the amazing Cultivation boosting options are, because we've never seen them.
I think the odds are limited in that case. He's still unable to defeat the Dao Cleaving commander despite all of his advantages, and we're functionally operating at Mid Dao Cleaving with a x6 speed modifier. We also can counterspell External Magics, and we should have a distinct speed advantage on him between our Functional 4.5 combat strength and the Full Potentiated Quickening.

Like, he's not an insignificant threat, but we're running a build that would be a right bitch for him to defeat.

How do you know that he's unable to defeat the Dao Cleaving Commander if they fought though? Cultivators of that rank have such a mobility advantage that they can chose to engage or not. He could well be able to defeat him if he could force an engagement, but he can't. That's suggested by the fact that the Cultivator in command hasn't headhunted him already and instead has to wait for reinforcements of multiple Peak Dao Cleavign Cultivators rather than soloing him. He also might be much stronger in his tower, which is why the Cultivator refuses to go after him there.

We're also seriously risking the quite likely greater prize of a source of Cultivation boosters - and there's nothing stopping us going after the remains of the battle after its over. It's pretty unlikely that Dao Cleaving rank cultivators can actually kill him, after all.
 
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Okay then, let me bring something different up.

How's he even going to be able to react properly to us?

We already learned way back when that Quickening alone--no matter how hard you pump it--won't be fast enough to let you react adequately to a Dao Cleaving Expert and they'll kill you before you can do much of anything?

How much harder would it be for him to meaningfully react to a Dao Cleaving Expert running a 100% Potentiated Quickening?
 
While it may not benefit you overmuch to Cultivate without more multipliers, there is some low-hanging Diagram fruit you could pick up with training if you had the BPs. Vault and Prodigious Might are both still available, and you have an Absolute Ego Barrier now on which to predicate Alvan's Crown. Something to think about if you don't get anything multipliers from this adventure; there are still paths of relatively easy advancement open to you.

With a Beyond I Might and Peak Soul Chrysalis Cultivation base, you'd have combat power near the equal of the peak Reality Forming Stage! That could let you collect Dao Cleaving-worthy resources with relative ease. Since you'd still be in Soul Chrysalis, any Soul Chrysalis-appropriate Legacy Zone would be yours to exploit.

You may also want to consider the implications of your enormous power at such a young age. To face Dao Cleaving evenly at the age of fourteen is pretty much unprecedented, and once Nameless begins to act his reputation will begin to ripple far and wide unless you take proactive measures to avoid premature infamy.
 
While it may not benefit you overmuch to Cultivate without more multipliers, there is some low-hanging Diagram fruit you could pick up with training if you had the BPs. Vault and Prodigious Might are both still available, and you have an Absolute Ego Barrier now on which to predicate Alvan's Crown. Something to think about if you don't get anything multipliers from this adventure; there are still paths of relatively easy advancement open to you.

With a Beyond I Might and Peak Soul Chrysalis Cultivation base, you'd have combat power near the equal of the peak Reality Forming Stage! That could let you collect Dao Cleaving-worthy resources with relative ease. Since you'd still be in Soul Chrysalis, any Soul Chrysalis-appropriate Legacy Zone would be yours to exploit.

That all sounds like making Diagram Magic an end in itself and giving up on Cultivation, Artificing and Philosopher King. I'm not at all interested in playing that game to be honest.

And this all seems like a hint that if we go after the Arch-Lich we'll be in serious danger of not getting any more Cultivation modifiers. It doesn't matter if we can gather Dao Cleaving resources easily if it takes so long to cultivate to that level that we'll run out of time.

This really seems like a decision that risks seriously harming our long term power level in reward for a shiny.

Upping our Cultivation multiplier critically enables so much of the rest of our power set. If we want esoteric attack modes, Cultivation powered Artifice does that for us. If we're threatened by a novel power set we hadn't realised we needed to prepare for, Artifice deals with that for us.

So much of our potential power is gated behind Cultivation modifiers, we can't afford to throw it away now.

But beyond all that, the point of Diagram magic is to multiply Cultivation speed. That was the promise of the voters who took us down this path. It's not meant to be an end in itself. We've be waiting quite a long time for that promise to be redeemed, update after update committed to Diagram magic. Now is the time.
 
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[X] Investigate Xylitemmerral
[X] Give to Suizhen

Going for the Lich against my better judgement. Also making sure we don't consume that when our Mini-Heroine can make more of it. I would of preferred our half-elf got it though.
 
Going for the Lich against my better judgement. Also making sure we don't consume that when our Mini-Heroine can make more of it. I would of preferred our half-elf got it though.

Why are you switching, if I may ask?

I admit that Bleak Ravens has suddenly switched from being in the lead to taking massive tumble down the vote board, but what's changed your mind?
 
So much of our potential power is gated behind Cultivation modifiers, we can't afford to throw it away now for shinies.

Thing is, using Artifice burns our Cultivation gains, making it ineffecient to use when we're at higher Cultivation stages unless we Diagram or Artifice ourself some more multipliers. The next stage of Philosopher Stone was confirmed by Rihaku as needing a GS-tier Artifact to complete.
Adhoc vote count started by Origami Clock on Mar 25, 2018 at 6:09 PM, finished with 274 posts and 48 votes.
 
I am a bit surprised that Xylitemmerral's been as popular as he has. Are you guys just not as interested in more Cultivation speed boosters?
 
I am a bit surprised that Xylitemmerral's been as popular as he has. Are you guys just not as interested in more Cultivation speed boosters?

Are you promising that they're a thing here?

Because so far, you've been ambivalent on the topic, except suggesting that none of them exist going after Xyl.

I mean, I'm not against Confronting the Bleak Ravens, I just think if we're going to do that, keeping the Pearl as potential leverage is more important, but the current voting scheme is such that the people who want to confront also want to burn it for immediate power.
 
I don't find it a coincidence that True Alchemist coincides with the start of Dao Cleaving. Three perfected Cultivation States using a harmony of Alchemy, Theurgy, and Astrology, merging into a single ultimate Form through which to build a World upon.

It seems pretty obvious though. The nature of our Reality is the Philosopher's Stone.

First, be recognized as a True Alchemist. A sage who has learned how to harmonize the elements of the world into greater forms. At that point, you have the right to craft a Philosopher's Stone through which you can distil the Elixir of Immortality. Make use of that correctly, and you can reign forever as a true [Philosopher-King]
Sure that's possible but if it isn't the case and we have free choice then what are you interested in?
 
I am a bit surprised that Xylitemmerral's been as popular as he has. Are you guys just not as interested in more Cultivation speed boosters?
Lich going all out on a city-killing blaze of glory sounds a lot easier to miss out on than Lich sitting in a cave having a staring competition with a crippled sect leader. Besides, it'll be interesting to see what synergies are available to us with some of the more dramatic Diagram spells. Grand Force Kinetic Kill Vehicle Artifact anyone?

If we kill the Heroine on her 18th birthday with our Artifact Killsat I feel it'll placate Dr Apocalypse enough that we can join his multiversal insurgence against the Divinities.
 
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