Libra's Lament, a Magical Girl Quest [Complete]
- Thread starter Naron
- Start date
- Original
Uhh, reread it. "but you can not do the same". That's saying that whoever it is being spoken to cannot do "moves faster than anything else", not that whoever it is being spoken to isn't light (although that is implied).
Only limiting the speed gap between us and an opponent is a pretty silly effect to have, because there's almost no cases in which that accomplishes anything at all. Would only matter when the degree to which a speed gap exists is relevant, which is very rare. Its just not an effect that makes sense.
The kinds of effects that make sense include but are not limited to: offering temporary boosts to HSC based on the opponent's Flight level, making it so that we don't suffer any accuracy penalties against faster opponents, and amplifying the effect of any time we get the "Horrific Speed Gap" additive bonus (or similar).
As for your claim of only considering my own interpretation, notice that I did specify an interpretation that could make it do something like boost our damage when we are faster than our enemy. That was listed as a possibility for if its being spoken by Sun rather than to her.
- Location
- Earth
You do not exactly owe her either of those. It is a nice thing to do, though.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
[X] Maybe now is a good time to thank Chi for her hard work?
[X] Talk to Strength; something bothers her and maybe you can help
[X] EXP Plan Moon is a Gentle Mistress (830 EXP)
-[X] Mistress of the Tide (700 EXP)
-[X] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 13-14 (130 EXP)
I believe this is also a moderately concise plan - it makes Moon better at taking damage within her (assuming that's what Mistress of the Tide does since it replaces Shining Protector) and improves her survivability.
EDIT: Going forward, and depending on Moon's ability to shelter Sun from excessive damage, I will probably have Veil at 15, both starter spells at 10, and special Omni-Casters for both as my next purchases. Followed by Baleful Eclipse 10 and Scorching Sunlight 15.
EDIT 2: At a guess, Special Omni-Caster will pertain specifically to spells originating from the specific MG - so Sun and Determination affinity spells will work for Sun, and Moon and Love - for Moon.
[Q] Wish List (2000 EXP on the dot)(in order of purchase)
-[Q] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 15 (140 EXP)
-[Q] Scorching Sunlight 10 (90 EXP)
-[Q] Neverending Sunlight (350 EXP)
-[Q] Soothing Moonlight 10 (80+90=170 EXP)
-[Q] Neverending Moonlight (350 EXP)
-[Q] Baleful Eclipse 6-10 (300 EXP)
-[Q] Scorching Sunlight 15 (600 EXP)
[X] Talk to Strength; something bothers her and maybe you can help
Hmmm...
[X] EXP Plan Moon is a Gentle Mistress (830 EXP)
-[X] Mistress of the Tide (700 EXP)
-[X] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 13-14 (130 EXP)
I believe this is also a moderately concise plan - it makes Moon better at taking damage within her (assuming that's what Mistress of the Tide does since it replaces Shining Protector) and improves her survivability.
EDIT: Going forward, and depending on Moon's ability to shelter Sun from excessive damage, I will probably have Veil at 15, both starter spells at 10, and special Omni-Casters for both as my next purchases. Followed by Baleful Eclipse 10 and Scorching Sunlight 15.
EDIT 2: At a guess, Special Omni-Caster will pertain specifically to spells originating from the specific MG - so Sun and Determination affinity spells will work for Sun, and Moon and Love - for Moon.
[Q] Wish List (2000 EXP on the dot)(in order of purchase)
-[Q] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 15 (140 EXP)
-[Q] Scorching Sunlight 10 (90 EXP)
-[Q] Neverending Sunlight (350 EXP)
-[Q] Soothing Moonlight 10 (80+90=170 EXP)
-[Q] Neverending Moonlight (350 EXP)
-[Q] Baleful Eclipse 6-10 (300 EXP)
-[Q] Scorching Sunlight 15 (600 EXP)
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- Location
- behind you
"but you can not do the same"
That part of the sentence is in connection with the first part which said something about the speed of light. Therefor WHY schouldnt that part have anything todo with the speed of light? Which gaves us in no way any form of information towards your points and disregarding my idea (which i dont believe myself but it is a possibility).
Besides what is the point if it is the thing where we still need points in flight? The EXP are wasted now then. Why do you deliberatly ignore that?
On another part: look back how often I was right in my assumptions and ideas within this quest.
Besides where never stated the things within the shop are for general use. Some of them have limitations of their usefulness. Like the legacy perks. They are only good if we are seperated, but right now we dont need them because we can use each others spells anyway. If we would have buyed them, it would be pointless. This is nearly the same damn situation.
We can use that to our adventage butthat wont be able to use them every time.
And because we have limited EXP we really need to think what we want to do right now.
True. Just felt that after she went to the trouble to rush out clothes for us we really should at least offer proper courtesy.
- Location
- behind you
That is something I would like to do the next day if possible, together with looking after our friends from Yggdrasil.
But first I think personally it would be better to sort out who/what we are now. This would make things like talking to them about/whith us a bit better.
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That's what I just said though? 'Light moves fast, but you don't move that fast'. That part isn't ambiguous at all.
The ambiguous part is who its being spoken to and whether its supposed to enforce that condition, alleviate that condition, or capitalize on that condition.
In all honesty though, my personal preference is to not spend any EXP at all right now, but I highly doubt that other people would vote for that.
- Location
- Elsewhere
Just level scorching sunlight to 15. That's 690 XP (100 less), shares the benefit to moon (because she can cast it as well), multiplies sun's spell damage per turn by 64 rather than 4 to 12 (depending on omni-caster's effects), and gives potentially 2 milestones on scorching sunlight.[X] Talk to Strength; something bothers her and maybe you can help
[X] Double Down
have that if you want a lot of increased Sun DPS dealing
[X] EXP-Plan sun spellspammer
-[X] Scorching Sunlight 9 -> 10 (90 XP)
-[X] Sunlight Scepter: Spellslinger (350 XP)
-[X] Neverending Sunlight (350 XP)
-[X] Total Cost: 790 XP
- Location
- behind you
We need to go a directions, because if we dont build something up what should we do if we need to level up things, but dont have the exp at hand right before a boss battle? If we have a way we want to fight and skill us that way we can more or less try that things turn out for us since the beginning.
We cant just react, but we need more acting in advance.
And the one question from me is still ignored and I wait for an answer.
- Location
- Elsewhere
I would.
The reason I say that I prefer to not spend anything is so that the only time we ever spend EXP is when its time for a boss fight.
And for your question, do you mean this part?
"Besides what is the point if it is the thing where we still need points in flight? The EXP are wasted now then. Why do you deliberatly ignore that?"
I'm not ignoring that. I'm saying that finding out that is a much smaller waste than if we level up Flight and then find out afterwards that Speed Gap makes those Flight levels pointless.
My big worry in terms of speed related things is that we encounter a boss fight that meets the following conditions:
- Is fast enough that they can dodge anything that Sun or Moon tries to hit them with.
- Can do more damage per turn to us than the girls can heal up in a turn by spamming Soothing Moonlight. Or if they can prevent us from healing.
In regards to our current state, beating an opponent like that requires one of the following:
- A new spell that's really good at hitting things that are too fast for you to track.
- Tons of EXP poured into Flight levels for the sake of High-Speed Combat.
- An Ability that lets us hit such opponents.
- Gaining enough raw skill at combat that we can accurately predict the movements of people we can't track.
- Location
- behind you
[X] Talk to Strength; something bothers her and maybe you can help
[X] Just find a nice spot to lie down and enjoy today's last sunlight; you need to think
[X] EXP-Plan
- [X] Save it
But I agree with saving it for now until we decided on the direction we want to go.
[X] Just find a nice spot to lie down and enjoy today's last sunlight; you need to think
[X] EXP-Plan
- [X] Save it
But I agree with saving it for now until we decided on the direction we want to go.
- Location
- behind you
Flight is a surefire method to getting us fast enough. The other ways are just gambling. Nothing more and nothing less. That is something which goes against the advice of Strength.
If the enemy is that fast that we cant win even if we level up flight, it would be unfair. Naron isnt unfair, I can truly assure you that knowing him. (Mostly because I would the first who would blame him, but he didnt do it until now. Why do it now or in the future?) Maybe we can encounter such enemys if we are always around Strength and so on. Because we fight against enemies which arent meant for us.
[X] Talk to Strength; something bothers her and maybe you can help
[X] Just find a nice spot to lie down and enjoy today's last sunlight; you need to think
[X] EXP-Plan
- [X] Save it
Getting Flight for one twin to level 19 (High-Speed Combat Lvl 3) costs an additional 1650 EXP over what we've already invested in Flight. Getting HSC to level 4 requires an additional 2070 EXP after that.
This is something I'm worried about because "high DPS + high Evasion" is a very typical style of Glass Cannon build, while also being a build we're nearly helpless against.
[X] Just find a nice spot to lie down and enjoy today's last sunlight; you need to think
[X] EXP-Plan
- [X] Save it
Flight is a sure fire way of doing that, but it's a gigantic EXP sink, even if we only get it for Sun and not for Moon.
Getting Flight for one twin to level 19 (High-Speed Combat Lvl 3) costs an additional 1650 EXP over what we've already invested in Flight. Getting HSC to level 4 requires an additional 2070 EXP after that.
This is something I'm worried about because "high DPS + high Evasion" is a very typical style of Glass Cannon build, while also being a build we're nearly helpless against.
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- Location
- behind you
But then again why should we forced to fight against someone with that build who is high enough that we would be completly useless/chanceless.
If we consider the first page and the sheets there. We that even the hogh level MG´s dont have that kind of speed anyway.
Getting flight to level 10 would be more than enough already. That would cost 780 EXP, which would be more than Speed Gap BUT both girls are fast enough (even when seperated, which you are believe will be inevitable happening).
If someone has that high stats and HSC we are dead anyway. Which makes me thing if we even truly need speed gap and how often it really will be of use.
Why do you believe of us encountering such a MG whichwould hardcounter nearly every other MG? (besides the top 3, but they are on a complete different level and fighting such monsters would be plain unfair)
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
You know what?
You have a point. Let's leave the fancy aside and settle for straightforward.
[X] EXP Plan More Sunfire
-[X] Scorching Sunlight 9-15 (690 EXP)
Solve the problem of "not enough dakka" once and for the remainder of the quest.
And never have to worry about firepower ever again. Not with 3.2 million unified damage.
[X] Talk to Strength; something bothers her and maybe you can help
[X] Double down
- Location
- behind you
A question why using double down? They are both within both bodies at the same time. If we let the bodies to different things we have more things we can do. Because we get every exp doubled now. Thanks to Naron I realized that because of the former: "beeing within both bodies at the same time".
Now that we have it we should use it. Naturally a few things make more things if both bodies are present, but this time it wont be needed.
Now that we have it we should use it. Naturally a few things make more things if both bodies are present, but this time it wont be needed.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Talk to Strength; something bothers her and maybe you can help
[X] Just find a nice spot to lie down and enjoy today's last sunlight; you need to think
This plan would raise Suns damage potential and make it actually possible for Moon to make use of her massive health pool by being able to heal it. ~82k damage from a single sunlight. ~ 41k heal from a single moonlight.
[] EXP-Plan damage and healing
-[] Soothing Moonlight 8 -> 13 (500 XP)
-[] Scorching Sunlight 9 -> 12 (300 XP)
-[] Total Cost: 800
For now though, I will be voting to save the exp
[X] EXP-Plan
- [X] Save it
[X] Just find a nice spot to lie down and enjoy today's last sunlight; you need to think
This plan would raise Suns damage potential and make it actually possible for Moon to make use of her massive health pool by being able to heal it. ~82k damage from a single sunlight. ~ 41k heal from a single moonlight.
[] EXP-Plan damage and healing
-[] Soothing Moonlight 8 -> 13 (500 XP)
-[] Scorching Sunlight 9 -> 12 (300 XP)
-[] Total Cost: 800
For now though, I will be voting to save the exp
[X] EXP-Plan
- [X] Save it
Actually, I don't believe they'll get separated unless we fight an opponent who can forcibly separate them. Considering the twins' abilities, that is very hard to do. I do not consider that likely to happen.
I only mentioned the fact that the costs are separate for the twins because it means that if we want to fly fast from one location to a different location (outside of combat), one of the twins needs to carry the other twin, which is a bit odd.
As for even high level MGs not having that kind of speed, its not even something that requires you to be that high level.
For example, take Blue Sky from CWMGQ, a very typical 'nothing special' MG. She has a level 13 ranged weapon with Danmaku (3 Attacks per Turn, 1170 Base Damage, and 1300 Magic Modifier) together with level 20 Flight and almost nothing else. That means that you need level 3 High-Speed Combat to track her when she's moving at max speed and she can throw out 3 attacks of upwards of at least 4095 damage per turn.
In this example, neither side would be able to hurt the other, because we wouldn't be able to hit her and she wouldn't be able to get past our Veils. But if you replaced Danmaku with Judgement, Smite, or Unstoppable, or if it was something like Danmaku + Juggernaut, then we would stalemate at best.
Agreed. The only reason to double down is if we want to make things more comfortable for whoever we are talking with or if we think that our action choice might lead to a boss fight, neither of which seem like very big concerns in this case.
- Location
- behind you
Having that high speed without anything else wouldnt do anything against us. The next thing is: Why using MG´s from other quests again here? Dont misunderstand I get your point there, but then again: she would be built to be our exact hardcounter and would hardcounter nearly everything else too.
Encountering such a thing would be plain unfair. Why do you believe it will happen? As far as I know is, that Naron is the nicest QM in that kind of story and he already is quite nice and forgiving towards us.
Just used her as an example to show that someone who is specialized in that way can have that build without being top tier. That someone very normal can have it.
After that the question of whether we stalemate or lose comes down to whether or not they have a way to overcome Veil of the Solar Goddess.
The thing is, its not completely unfair. Because if we spent our EXP differently (invest in Sun's Flight instead of our Connection, for example), that type of build would be easy to beat.
Of course, an alternative is to just plain do lots of target practice. Train (without spending EXP) to be better at aiming at things that are moving really fast. The cost of doing that is time instead of EXP.
- Location
- Elsewhere
I'm saving xp for now, but my personal xp goals are:
1: (Possibly) Radiant Shine Unbroken. It brings Sun's defense up to ~20-30k either way, and 40-60k if it makes radiance always trigger (which it looks like it does). This effectively requires a level in moon's veil, or she is vulnerable to splash. Moon's veil level brings her no-sell to ~40k as well. 880 xp to double or quadruple our defenses and bring them up to par. We made preparations last xp vote to get closer to it, and not on something that's especially worthwhile otherwise. (Sun's health.) However....
1A: There's a bit of a sunk cost fallacy there. Leveling Sun's scepter and Moon's veil in sync lets us near-double our defenses for very low investment. Bringing scepter to 15 and veil to 18 brings Sun's no-sell to 400-600k normally and 800-1200k with radiance, while Moon's is brought to ~950k. This lets our defense keep a rough parity with our offence (see below). That would cost 1350 XP including the prerequisite level in radiant shine unbroken (it's 2,000 exactly for them both). Expensive, but not horrifically so, especially considering how it can be paid ~300 xp at a time. This can be bought instead of RSU for a potentially greater overall effect, as spending a mere 750 xp on it brings sun's no-sell to 120-180k, 3 times what RSU gives if it makes radiance always trigger. So this is probably higher priority than RSU. We can always get RSU later, when the increasing costs make it more worthwhile. However, RSU's actual effect has yet to be revealed and could well be something more valuable than just applying Radiance to everything. It's a gamble, but a reasonably safe one.
2: Bringing Scorching Sunlight to ~15. This solves most all our damage problems (it makes our solo damage close to what we've seen from high-tier MGs other than our sister, and a full third of Strength's 2-echo Bullet Hell), potentially unlocks 2 milestones, and is usable by either character. This was not originally on my list, but Absolute connection letting Eva use it is a massive boon that fixes Eva's biggest problem (lack of damage) if we level it. This costs 690 XP.
Other than that, we have options. We can try to bring our flight levels up to par (probably HSC 3, though we might leave Moon lower), try to bring our healing up enough to meaningfully heal Moon (Level 15 should be enough for a while, like Sunlight), bring baleful eclipse higher (As with the others, 15 seems a good level to stop, though we can probably stop earlier (maybe 10) if we assume we won't need to go nonlethal against larger threats), or save for Harmonious Incorporation. Or we can start looking in the mystery boxes.
Special Note: we can save for Harmonious Incorporation specifically whenever we want. I would personally delay it until after we have Scepter and Scorching Sunlight at 15 and Veil of the lunar goddess at 18. (Which is 1990 XP total). But going into it immediately should be valid too.
1: (Possibly) Radiant Shine Unbroken. It brings Sun's defense up to ~20-30k either way, and 40-60k if it makes radiance always trigger (which it looks like it does). This effectively requires a level in moon's veil, or she is vulnerable to splash. Moon's veil level brings her no-sell to ~40k as well. 880 xp to double or quadruple our defenses and bring them up to par. We made preparations last xp vote to get closer to it, and not on something that's especially worthwhile otherwise. (Sun's health.) However....
1A: There's a bit of a sunk cost fallacy there. Leveling Sun's scepter and Moon's veil in sync lets us near-double our defenses for very low investment. Bringing scepter to 15 and veil to 18 brings Sun's no-sell to 400-600k normally and 800-1200k with radiance, while Moon's is brought to ~950k. This lets our defense keep a rough parity with our offence (see below). That would cost 1350 XP including the prerequisite level in radiant shine unbroken (it's 2,000 exactly for them both). Expensive, but not horrifically so, especially considering how it can be paid ~300 xp at a time. This can be bought instead of RSU for a potentially greater overall effect, as spending a mere 750 xp on it brings sun's no-sell to 120-180k, 3 times what RSU gives if it makes radiance always trigger. So this is probably higher priority than RSU. We can always get RSU later, when the increasing costs make it more worthwhile. However, RSU's actual effect has yet to be revealed and could well be something more valuable than just applying Radiance to everything. It's a gamble, but a reasonably safe one.
2: Bringing Scorching Sunlight to ~15. This solves most all our damage problems (it makes our solo damage close to what we've seen from high-tier MGs other than our sister, and a full third of Strength's 2-echo Bullet Hell), potentially unlocks 2 milestones, and is usable by either character. This was not originally on my list, but Absolute connection letting Eva use it is a massive boon that fixes Eva's biggest problem (lack of damage) if we level it. This costs 690 XP.
Other than that, we have options. We can try to bring our flight levels up to par (probably HSC 3, though we might leave Moon lower), try to bring our healing up enough to meaningfully heal Moon (Level 15 should be enough for a while, like Sunlight), bring baleful eclipse higher (As with the others, 15 seems a good level to stop, though we can probably stop earlier (maybe 10) if we assume we won't need to go nonlethal against larger threats), or save for Harmonious Incorporation. Or we can start looking in the mystery boxes.
Special Note: we can save for Harmonious Incorporation specifically whenever we want. I would personally delay it until after we have Scepter and Scorching Sunlight at 15 and Veil of the lunar goddess at 18. (Which is 1990 XP total). But going into it immediately should be valid too.