Voting is open
It should be noted that the Lystheni were planning to attack us fairly soon.
Yeah.
That's why we are thinking about sharing full-spectrum sensor recordings with the general public as well as with the Quarians.
Why would she pretend to be the old woman though? What does it gain her over presenting herself as the new Dalatrass? No, if this is a young Salarian in make-up, she almost has to be a body double.
Because maybe she wants us to expect the previous ruler's isolationist policies?
Or just another manifestation of their institutional paranoia, like how they staged the death of the guy who is apparently their fleet admiral just because.
And then continued to send the guy into Virmire space as their sole agent every time they had to buy military supplies.
 
[X] Play it cool. Depart in your own shuttle without comment to anybody. Get off of this toothless platform beforethe shooting starts.
-[X] Call for the surrender of the "Navy". Hopefully they're more reasonable.
--[X] And make sure it's recorded for posterity.
 
I could see it as a quirk of the writing, that the Dalatrass is that old but not as infirm as she wants us to believe, or that she's younger and pretending to be old because that's the only way to be 'respected'. Alternatively to make us underestimate her, because we think she's an old pushover. Or to make us let our guard down for the capture. Or this is a decoy so they didn't risk their actual leader and...

*blinks*

okay, now my head hurts. I can't stay in their mindset.
 
[X] Shoot first, shoot often. Sucker punch the Lystheni with an all-out assault. You possess the advantage of quality. An alpha strike could easily burn half of the Lystheni's ships before they get their engines started, and secure the battle.
 
Restricted-direction radio transmission is a thing 20th Century Earth is capable of.

The technology physically exists, lasers capable of being detected across the kind of distances that we're likely dealing with are bulky

I'm actually on board with 'not having the tech' in this case, now that I've thought about it. I mean sure, the tech exists and all, but they all require large focuses (foci?). And pointing that focus in the direction of our fleet would be rather noticeable, thus not useful.

If i may spit ball again: What I would do is send the shuttle out empty, but squawking to our fleet 'feign defense of the shuttle, destroy the Rachini fleet, and if we've identified any channels they've compromised make it look like the dalatrass' plan mostly worked but that I escaped with my biotics.' Then let the chips fall
 
Man I just realized there goes a perfectly good chance to make an amazing Quote. Maybe we can still use it?

This is not a negotiation. It is not a suggestion, not a trade, not a petition, not an agreement, not a compromise, and certainly not a surrender.

This is my victory march.
 
Man I just realized there goes a perfectly good chance to make an amazing Quote. Maybe we can still use it?

This is not a negotiation. It is not a suggestion, not a trade, not a petition, not an agreement, not a compromise, and certainly not a surrender.

This is my victory march.
I dearly hope not. If she was that self-aggrandizing she would be unfit to be a leader. Furthermore, anyone foolish enough to actually say that to an undefeated enemy would fully earn the troubles it would bring them.
 
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Man I just realized there goes a perfectly good chance to make an amazing Quote. Maybe we can still use it?

This is not a negotiation. It is not a suggestion, not a trade, not a petition, not an agreement, not a compromise, and certainly not a surrender.

This is my victory march.

while this is a badass quote, this was not nearly enough of a struggle to be worthy of something that grandiose. This is the kind of situation where you say something snarky about the other person being an idiot. We didn't drop the ball or anything, but the defining aspect of this was our opponent spiking the ball into the ground so hard it bounced up and knocked them out.
 
could we muddy the wattesr with ECM? make it look like the station is still contested or something? Jamming so they can't talk to the station period to confirm one way or the other.
You can and by default do lay down ECM in battle. I suppose that would mean that the Lystheni could not confirm the status of the Dalatrass.

Hard to predict their reaction to that.
Restricted-direction radio transmission is a thing 20th Century Earth is capable of. Mostly, I (and I suspect others) are hoping to be able to get the "do unto others before they do unto us" message to our fleet in a way that the Lystheni don't know what's going on until shooting starts. (Or maybe just before, since a certain amount of prep will be necessary.)
And yeah, torpedoes are kinda inevitable, which is why I'm thinking that everyone who can will be in vac-sealed gear, and possibly very near the shuttles, just in case the platform takes too many hits. (Or escape pods, if the platform has those.)
Oh, there are regular communications in any event. Transmissions to your fleet form the platform won't be unusual. Now, your fleet opening fire, that will be unusual. :rofl:
What part of canon tells us that frigate/cruiser-sized space stations don't have a communications laser in the Rachni War era? The technology physically exists, lasers capable of being detected across the kind of distances that we're likely dealing with are bulky but not so bulky they wouldn't fit on the ship. I mean, a radio antenna capable of sending messages those distances is ALSO rather bulky, it's not like those fit in a vest pocket.

The raw technology of comm lasers is literally a 20th century technology, it's not "too high tech" for a civilization that has, say, CD players, let alone all the stuff even our 'pre-game' Mass Effect society has. Yes, I get that you want to create "steps on the tech tree" between 'Rachni War tech' and the quantum entanglement comms of the game era, but this just doesn't make sense. It's like saying that a well equipped wilderness expedition in an alt-historical Wild West setting doesn't have a hatchet because hatchet technology is too advanced.

If the station doesn't have a laser communicator, a more likely explanation is that it was simply removed prior to the negotiations. For maximum irony, Mira might have insisted on that step due to being worried about the Lystheni coordinating some kind of secret action with their fleet without our fleet knowing about it. :p
I derive this from the fact that whatever the games use for comms, it's functionally indistinct from radio or laser comms as far as I can tell. I doubt it isn't laser, at that point. The issue is that I don't know what's better than laser, but worse than quantum entanglement communicators. And given that I am unwilling to have communications technology sit at, "Yeah, laser and whatever that thing we use for FTL comms is it," for two millennia without a change, that leaves me with very limited options. At the moment, I've been positing that for various socioeconomic reasons, people have not adopted laser communicators on a sufficiently small or widespread scale to apply in this scenario.

Now, you say you recognize the issue with which I am confronted; I welcome suggestions on how to resolve this. Any pleasing-sounding technobabble with a minimum of plausibility would do.
 
You can and by default do lay down ECM in battle. I suppose that would mean that the Lystheni could not confirm the status of the Dalatrass.

Hard to predict their reaction to that.

Oh, there are regular communications in any event. Transmissions to your fleet form the platform won't be unusual. Now, your fleet opening fire, that will be unusual. :rofl:

I derive this from the fact that whatever the games use for comms, it's functionally indistinct from radio or laser comms as far as I can tell. I doubt it isn't laser, at that point. The issue is that I don't know what's better than laser, but worse than quantum entanglement communicators. And given that I am unwilling to have communications technology sit at, "Yeah, laser and whatever that thing we use for FTL comms is it," for two millennia without a change, that leaves me with very limited options. At the moment, I've been positing that for various socioeconomic reasons, people have not adopted laser communicators on a sufficiently small or widespread scale to apply in this scenario.

Now, you say you recognize the issue with which I am confronted; I welcome suggestions on how to resolve this. Any pleasing-sounding technobabble with a minimum of plausibility would do.
Hmm. Worse than Lasers but still point-to-point? Hmm.

Mass Effects are amongst other things 'spooky action at a distance', so maybe ships with ME drives can induce minor modulated fluctuations in an attuned receiving mass. So, it's not man-portable, is ship-to-ship, and maybe you need to some degree of pre-calibration to your attuned receiver... or to know the specs of the mass in detail. So it needs to be standardised. Making lasers more generally applicable, once we get another tech generation or two solving the dispersion issues at multi-parsec distances...?
 
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Communication via tuned mass effect sounds better than lasers (in that it's potentially FTL over interplanetary distances where that matters) in some ways, and worse in others (waaay bulkier, requires specially engineered receiving unit and careful tuning, probably possible for other people to tell you're doing it even if they can't read your messages, and probably low bandwidth).

I derive this from the fact that whatever the games use for comms, it's functionally indistinct from radio or laser comms as far as I can tell. I doubt it isn't laser, at that point. The issue is that I don't know what's better than laser, but worse than quantum entanglement communicators. And given that I am unwilling to have communications technology sit at, "Yeah, laser and whatever that thing we use for FTL comms is it," for two millennia without a change, that leaves me with very limited options. At the moment, I've been positing that for various socioeconomic reasons, people have not adopted laser communicators on a sufficiently small or widespread scale to apply in this scenario.

Now, you say you recognize the issue with which I am confronted; I welcome suggestions on how to resolve this. Any pleasing-sounding technobabble with a minimum of plausibility would do.
Well, honestly, I perceive the problem, in that it's a desire I find natural: "How can I have a tech tree in this specific field?" But I think the correct solution in this case is the Zen solution: when one opens one's mind, one perceives that the problem never really existed.

I'd honestly just say "yes, lasers are the primary mean for focused communications, with radio used as a backup or broadcast alternative." The comm buoys presumably STILL use lasers and generate some kind of interstellar mass effect corridor as they do in the game era, then fire laser pulses along the corridor to move at ludicrous speed over galactic distances. They probably have inferior bandwidth and reliability, and probably also inferior message speed, than is now the case... but they work. Maybe only for voice communications, which is the upper limit on what we've seen them used for? Have we seen the comm buoy network used for anything that couldn't realistically be done with a phone line and a dialup modem?

And then, well... there just aren't any other FTL communications systems, everything else is speed at light unless people do as Alliterate suggests and develop a weird hack based on having tuned mass effect receivers ping each other over interplanetary distances (interstellar seems unlikely/impossible). And, eventually, quantum entanglement.

And why is that a problem?

...

In this, and in some other areas where it's not obvious to you how to improve technology from this era to the game era without saying "stuff that already exists in 2015-era Earth 'hasn't been invented yet' by galactic civilization..."

My solution would be to say "the basic nature of this technology really doesn't change, people just very gradually improved the quality and ease of manufacture and reliability." It's a common SF conceit, and it's justified.

I mean, a lot of technologies have stayed pretty much fixed for two millenia in that we use the same tool now that we did then. Cloth still works the same way, in that it is woven out of threads; we got a lot better at making threads and weaving them automatically and so on, but it's not a fundamentally different principle. Knives and hatchets and hammers and so on haven't changed that fundamentally; a Roman carpenter could pick up the hand tools used by a modern carpenter and have a pretty good idea of how to use them. We still cook things on stoves and in ovens, and nothing much changed on that front until we very suddenly invented a lot of new ways to heat an oven starting around 1800. Some things are just functional-for-purpose, and while you can twiddle around the details of the design, you don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. The wheel being a great example, actually, in that we still use very clearly recognizable wheels as technology, even though the supporting infrastructure of what we make them of and how we attach them to vehicles has changed quite a lot.

Miniaturizing into handheld units instead of, say, units the size of a truck, while still preserving the ability to detect the laser signal space-is-big distances? Sure, fine. That may take progress. But the bare fact that comm lasers are being used at all is a bit like the fact that people use hatchets to chop firewood. By the standard of someone who knows how to build spaceships, it is a simple, reliable technology that works very very well, so there is no pressing need to change the basic principle of what is done and how it is done.

The hatchet you buy today is a better hatchet than would have been available two thousand years ago, and it costs proportionately much less of your income than it would have back then. But it's still a hatchet, and no genius-level breakthroughs specifically in hatchet technology were required to get here from there. All the big advances were in other areas that also had other benefits, and just coincidentally improved hatchets as a spin-off.
 
Yeah, laser and whatever that thing we use for FTL comms is it," for two millennia without a change, that leaves me with very limited options

Eh, I rather like the idea that, sure it exists, but it's bulkier than hell and less efficient than undirected comms. Like point to point has an obvious use, but it's niche and the power requirements are absurd compared to the returns expected. Like true realtime comms have sthe same power reqs as barriers and MACs, and shuttles are good enough
 
Gravatonic communications? In mass effect, mass can be changed, and some physicists posit that the destruction and creation of mass is a faster than light event. Mind, due to conservation of mass and energy it's physically impossible to destroy mass without creating enough energy to make up it's loss as far as gravity is concerned.

But mass effect seems to let you use energy to change mass and gravity, so perhaps gravity communicators could be faster than light but slower than quantum?
 
[X] Shoot first, shoot often. Sucker punch the Lystheni with an all-out assault. You possess the advantage of quality. An alpha strike could easily burn half of the Lystheni's ships before they get their engines started, and secure the battle.
 
Eh, I rather like the idea that, sure it exists, but it's bulkier than hell and less efficient than undirected comms. Like point to point has an obvious use, but it's niche and the power requirements are absurd compared to the returns expected. Like true realtime comms have sthe same power reqs as barriers and MACs, and shuttles are good enough
Uh... do you mean communications lasers, or some other mass effect-based technology?

Lasers... really, really should not be bulky and hard to use like that, it's a reasonably mature technology NOW and the main reason we don't have laser communicators for spaceships is that we don't have spaceships to put them on that need to talk to each other that way. Also, they are totally subject to light speed lag.

It's a bit like going into a setting set in medieval times and saying "I like the idea that wheels are exotic ultratech in this medieval setting, because I want to make sure there's a step on the tech tree between fully sprung suspensions and just carrying things around on your feet."

Gravatonic communications? In mass effect, mass can be changed, and some physicists posit that the destruction and creation of mass is a faster than light event. Mind, due to conservation of mass and energy it's physically impossible to destroy mass without creating enough energy to make up it's loss as far as gravity is concerned.

But mass effect seems to let you use energy to change mass and gravity, so perhaps gravity communicators could be faster than light but slower than quantum?
Or they could be instantaneous, but inherently "short" ranged (interplanetary not interstellar) and require very elaborate equipment tuning.

Great for connecting your planet to the galactic 'internet' by hooking it up to a comm buoy. Not so great for connecting ships to anything other than a designated "mission control" or command vessel in the same system. And useless for connecting ships to planets in another star system. Thus, clearly inferior to quantum entanglement comms, but clearly superior within certain relevant niches to lightspeed communications.
 
I derive this from the fact that whatever the games use for comms, it's functionally indistinct from radio or laser comms as far as I can tell. I doubt it isn't laser, at that point. The issue is that I don't know what's better than laser, but worse than quantum entanglement communicators. And given that I am unwilling to have communications technology sit at, "Yeah, laser and whatever that thing we use for FTL comms is it," for two millennia without a change, that leaves me with very limited options. At the moment, I've been positing that for various socioeconomic reasons, people have not adopted laser communicators on a sufficiently small or widespread scale to apply in this scenario.
What's better than lasers and maser? Better lasers and masers:V.
Better frequency modulation. More sensitive receivers. Less signal loss per light year. Better computer algorithms to pack more data into it. Better comm buoy power.

Supplement with courier ships for high security/high density message or data transport. And omnidirectional radio, of course.

Look at RL. We have been using the silicon chip for the last fifty something years of exponentially improving computer performance, and we've been using fiberoptic cables to transmit voice and data since the 1980s, and copper wire for a half-century before that.
If it isn't broke, why fix it?
 
I imagine that comm laser are used in mass effect on ships is because it is more secure and would require a ship to fly over the laser to intercept the message.
 
I derive this from the fact that whatever the games use for comms, it's functionally indistinct from radio or laser comms as far as I can tell. I doubt it isn't laser, at that point. The issue is that I don't know what's better than laser, but worse than quantum entanglement communicators. And given that I am unwilling to have communications technology sit at, "Yeah, laser and whatever that thing we use for FTL comms is it," for two millennia without a change, that leaves me with very limited options. At the moment, I've been positing that for various socioeconomic reasons, people have not adopted laser communicators on a sufficiently small or widespread scale to apply in this scenario.

Now, you say you recognize the issue with which I am confronted; I welcome suggestions on how to resolve this. Any pleasing-sounding technobabble with a minimum of plausibility would do.
Hm. From what I recall, even game-era high-power lasers have significant collimation/diffraction issues, judging by their relatively short effective range. (Keeping the beam from dispersing over distance.) Of course, given mass effect tech making kinetic weapons so much easier to make effective, it would make sense if laser research has lagged significantly.

(Of course, if I understand correctly, Bioware got the physics exactly wrong, saying that ultraviolet lasers were able to reach 6 times the range of infrared lasers, when the longer the wavelength, the less it tends to scatter.)

So, saying that (like mass accelerators and barriers), we currently have the tech as a general thing, but not as advanced as it got during the games would make sense. Or, possibly, that the codex articles understated what comms technology actually was like during that period. One thing to note is that inter-system comms consisted of miniature mass relay buoys which allowed communication lasers to travel essentially instantly through the network. (Which, arguably, both we and the Rachni have currently given the results of our hack on their network.)

The trick about using lasers for comms, of course, is that they need to be very precisely aimed... which is okay when you're not having to maneuver at all, but during wartime that's less of the time than you might think.

So, thinking on it, the idea that we might not have man-portable laser comm units which can lock onto a (possibly erratically) moving target and reliably send a message, over a significant distance, seems legit to me when we're expecting to be able to use the station's own communications setup. And the station probably could... but might well be noticed in the process, as I would expect the Lystheni are at least paying attention to that.
 
Communication via tuned mass effect sounds better than lasers (in that it's potentially FTL over interplanetary distances where that matters) in some ways, and worse in others (waaay bulkier, requires specially engineered receiving unit and careful tuning, probably possible for other people to tell you're doing it even if they can't read your messages, and probably low bandwidth).

Well, honestly, I perceive the problem, in that it's a desire I find natural: "How can I have a tech tree in this specific field?" But I think the correct solution in this case is the Zen solution: when one opens one's mind, one perceives that the problem never really existed.

I'd honestly just say "yes, lasers are the primary mean for focused communications, with radio used as a backup or broadcast alternative." The comm buoys presumably STILL use lasers and generate some kind of interstellar mass effect corridor as they do in the game era, then fire laser pulses along the corridor to move at ludicrous speed over galactic distances. They probably have inferior bandwidth and reliability, and probably also inferior message speed, than is now the case... but they work. Maybe only for voice communications, which is the upper limit on what we've seen them used for? Have we seen the comm buoy network used for anything that couldn't realistically be done with a phone line and a dialup modem?

And then, well... there just aren't any other FTL communications systems, everything else is speed at light unless people do as Alliterate suggests and develop a weird hack based on having tuned mass effect receivers ping each other over interplanetary distances (interstellar seems unlikely/impossible). And, eventually, quantum entanglement.

And why is that a problem?

...

In this, and in some other areas where it's not obvious to you how to improve technology from this era to the game era without saying "stuff that already exists in 2015-era Earth 'hasn't been invented yet' by galactic civilization..."

My solution would be to say "the basic nature of this technology really doesn't change, people just very gradually improved the quality and ease of manufacture and reliability." It's a common SF conceit, and it's justified.

I mean, a lot of technologies have stayed pretty much fixed for two millenia in that we use the same tool now that we did then. Cloth still works the same way, in that it is woven out of threads; we got a lot better at making threads and weaving them automatically and so on, but it's not a fundamentally different principle. Knives and hatchets and hammers and so on haven't changed that fundamentally; a Roman carpenter could pick up the hand tools used by a modern carpenter and have a pretty good idea of how to use them. We still cook things on stoves and in ovens, and nothing much changed on that front until we very suddenly invented a lot of new ways to heat an oven starting around 1800. Some things are just functional-for-purpose, and while you can twiddle around the details of the design, you don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. The wheel being a great example, actually, in that we still use very clearly recognizable wheels as technology, even though the supporting infrastructure of what we make them of and how we attach them to vehicles has changed quite a lot.

Miniaturizing into handheld units instead of, say, units the size of a truck, while still preserving the ability to detect the laser signal space-is-big distances? Sure, fine. That may take progress. But the bare fact that comm lasers are being used at all is a bit like the fact that people use hatchets to chop firewood. By the standard of someone who knows how to build spaceships, it is a simple, reliable technology that works very very well, so there is no pressing need to change the basic principle of what is done and how it is done.

The hatchet you buy today is a better hatchet than would have been available two thousand years ago, and it costs proportionately much less of your income than it would have back then. But it's still a hatchet, and no genius-level breakthroughs specifically in hatchet technology were required to get here from there. All the big advances were in other areas that also had other benefits, and just coincidentally improved hatchets as a spin-off.
I know hatchets haven't changed; I'm not discussing the metaphorical hatchet. I'm discussing the metaphorical field of weapons development as a whole. Hatchets have not fundamentally changed because the design of hatchets is good for the purpose, and to fundamentally change them would make them not be hatchets. For instance, one could make them, instead of sticks with sharp blades on, be hollow tubes which project metal projectiles via the controlled ignition of gunpowder mixtures.

But then you don't have a hatchet. You have a gun. Different technology, one not produced by iterative improvements on the hatchet. And one which has supplanted the hatchet in the modern warrior's arsenal. Again, new inventions within a field, rather than iterative improvements somehow producing a radically different product. What I'm trying to figure out is the equivalent of the gun in this scenario; because presently, where humans in the relevant time span will be busy with polearms, longbows, crossbows, arquebuses, muskets, rifles, machine guns, aircraft, and the nuke, in the rest of the galaxy, it's metaphorical hatchets all the way down, for two thousand years.

I'm sure that if I had a telegraph machine built, I'd find it little changed from when they were still in wide use even if I gave the designer leave to make it the most pimped-out telegraph machine the world has ever seen or will ever see.

But who the hell would use a telegraph machine when they have a cell phone?

Thus, my request for metaphorical longbows and machine guns. Something to make the people of the galaxy cleave neatly and believably to, "not blibbering idiots."

On the other hand, I could always nerf your research rolls to conform to that pacing. I suppose personal barriers might have shown up a millennium or so early...:evil:
What's better than lasers and maser? Better lasers and masers:V.
Better frequency modulation. More sensitive receivers. Less signal loss per light year. Better computer algorithms to pack more data into it. Better comm buoy power.

Supplement with courier ships for high security/high density message or data transport. And omnidirectional radio, of course.

Look at RL. We have been using the silicon chip for the last fifty something years of exponentially improving computer performance, and we've been using fiberoptic cables to transmit voice and data since the 1980s, and copper wire for a half-century before that.
If it isn't broke, why fix it?
Because I refuse to believe that two millennia of development turned up nothing that worked even better.
 
I imagine that comm laser are used in mass effect on ships is because it is more secure and would require a ship to fly over the laser to intercept the message.
Exactly.

Hm. From what I recall, even game-era high-power lasers have significant collimation/diffraction issues, judging by their relatively short effective range. (Keeping the beam from dispersing over distance.) Of course, given mass effect tech making kinetic weapons so much easier to make effective, it would make sense if laser research has lagged significantly.
The limit on effective range for weaponized lasers is because you're talking about "boil holes in stuff instantly" beam intensity. If the beam spreads out to a thousand times its original width, the beam is spread out over a million times the area, which means one millionth the intensity, which means a beam that could have blasted holes in tank armor at point blank range will barely even warm the armor up at the (much) longer range.

For comm lasers, that limitation is less relevant because you don't need the target to be melted by the beam, you just need the target to be able to see the beam. Since you can use the kind of high sensitivity equipment that astronomers use in telescopes for this purpose, there's really no reason for this to be a problem at anything less than interplanetary ranges.

(This is a summary, I can math later)

The trick about using lasers for comms, of course, is that they need to be very precisely aimed... which is okay when you're not having to maneuver at all, but during wartime that's less of the time than you might think.
You can still use lasers to signal a target as long as you know where it is. If our ships are in a parking orbit, they're predictable targets until they start moving and firing weapons.

So, thinking on it, the idea that we might not have man-portable laser comm units which can lock onto a (possibly erratically) moving target and reliably send a message, over a significant distance, seems legit to me when we're expecting to be able to use the station's own communications setup. And the station probably could... but might well be noticed in the process, as I would expect the Lystheni are at least paying attention to that.
See, this is a plausible way to create the necessary dramatic problem without setting any problematic precedents! :)

I'm sure you could build a handheld laser device to signal a spacecraft, but it'd be specialist emergency equipment (the equivalent of portable signal lamps in real life), and it would be far less long-ranged and effective at signaling a target than would a ship-mounted or station-mounted platform.

And it IS plausible that the Lystheni would be able to tell if the station swings a comm laser assembly to talk to our ships. Not necessarily-true, but plausible.

I know hatchets haven't changed; I'm not discussing the metaphorical hatchet. I'm discussing the metaphorical field of weapons development as a whole. Hatchets have not fundamentally changed because the design of hatchets is good for the purpose, and to fundamentally change them would make them not be hatchets. For instance, one could make them, instead of sticks with sharp blades on, be hollow tubes which project metal projectiles via the controlled ignition of gunpowder mixtures.
The design of communications lasers, as we'd build them in 2018 if we had spaceships to put them on, is also pretty good for spaceship communications.

What I'm saying is, laser communications for point-to-point signalling within a solar system is one of those technologies that is "hatchet-like," in that it can be done quite well with technology that is simple compared to starships. Not "firearm-like" or "radio-like" in that it will be constantly, rapidly evolving over an extended period of time.

Not every field of technology HAS to evolve rapidly. I imagine that Virmireans still use electricity, and will continue to do so, and may very well even still be using alternating current though superconductors at least reduce the disadvantages of DC relative to AC.

But then you don't have a hatchet. You have a gun. Different technology, one not produced by iterative improvements on the hatchet. And one which has supplanted the hatchet in the modern warrior's arsenal. Again, new inventions within a field, rather than iterative improvements somehow producing a radically different product. What I'm trying to figure out is the equivalent of the gun in this scenario; because presently, where humans in the relevant time span will be busy with polearms, longbows, crossbows, arquebuses, muskets, rifles, machine guns, aircraft, and the nuke, in the rest of the galaxy, it's metaphorical hatchets all the way down, for two thousand years.

I'm sure that if I had a telegraph machine built, I'd find it little changed from when they were still in wide use even if I gave the designer leave to make it the most pimped-out telegraph machine the world has ever seen or will ever see.

But who the hell would use a telegraph machine when they have a cell phone?

Thus, my request for metaphorical longbows and machine guns. Something to make the people of the galaxy cleave neatly and believably to, "not blibbering idiots."

On the other hand, I could always nerf your research rolls to conform to that pacing. I suppose personal barriers might have shown up a millennium or so early...:evil:
Well, the field of communications technology may just not be the natural target for this kind of development? I mean, we've got all kinds of room for potential advances in medicine. In drive reliability for our ships. In mass driver firepower and barrier performance for everything from infantry to vehicles to starships. In material science to make uprated, well, everything. In precision mass effect field manipulation to revolutionize manufacturing and enable the creation of stuff like omnitools. In automation to build robotics and ultimately drones and 'mechs. In areas like holography that impact how we capture and store images and data. In computer design, likewise, for all I know. And I'm sure that's not an exhaustive list.

But it may well be that a comm laser is just about the optimal method to send a light-speed message from point to point in an untraceable, high-bandwidth, energy-efficient way, and will remain so, and that all the miracles of progress will boil down to "here is how to make a better comm laser," just as all the miracles of progress in cloth manufacture from Roman times to 1900 AD boiled down to "here is how to make and sew cloth faster, better, and cheaper."

Because I refuse to believe that two millennia of development turned up nothing that worked even better.
Why? I mean, two millenia of development didn't turn up anything better than a spoon for eating soup with. Or anything better than the wheel for allowing large vehicles to move smoothly in contact with the ground using a minimum of traction force. Or anything unambiguously better than textiles made out of woven threads for general-purpose garments.

MANY problems find radically different and better solutions as technology advances (radio versus telegraphy versus carry stuff around on a horse for communications). Some problems find incremental advances that improve the technology a great deal but don't cause a difference in kind (wheels and textiles). And some problems don't find better solutions at all (spoons).
 
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Because I refuse to believe that two millennia of development turned up nothing that worked even better.

Sometimes you just hit a physical limit and the laws of physics say you can't do better. For example, there's actually a hard capped limit for how many transistors could fit on a silicon microchip.

Currently, the way they're manufactured is by having a laser burn tiny channels, called transistors, into the silicon so that the chip can channle more streams of electrons and handle more independent binary calculations at the same time. At a certain point, the laws of physics degree that this breaks down. If you keep adding more and more transistors in a microchip, eventually the walls will be so close together (about 5 atoms width) that the laws of quantum dynamics will take over from classical physics. This means that sudden quantum uncertainty comes in and you can't predict where an electron actually is. That means that the probability space of an electron could 'leak' from their designated transistor to the ones next to it. This utterly screws up the microchip and causes everything to short circuit.

There's no way around this. It's a fundamental law of physics preventing us from increasing the density of transistors on a microchip. Now, you could make a bigger microchip, you could make them 3D, you could develop a better algorithm to make more effective use of transistors, but you cannot add more. Doing so will destroy the chip.

In order to actually make a 'better' microchip, you need a breakthrough and complete paradigm shift. Currently, we're projected to hit the quantum limit for microchips within 5 years. After that, Moore's Law will stop and microchips can't get any faster (unless they're made bigger). We would need to figure out either optical computing (using photons in place of electrons) or quantum computing in order to keep making better microchips.

Quantum Entanglement communicators could be that paradigm shift from laser coms. There's no reason to think that the laws of physics will simply continue to let technology improve. They don't have to be that convenient. Some things may be flat out impossible because of how the universe works.
 
Uh... do you mean communications lasers, or some other mass effect-based technology?

Well see-

And it IS plausible that the Lystheni would be able to tell if the station swings a comm laser assembly to talk to our ships. Not necessarily-true, but plausible.

I was gonna do a huge song and dance about needing specific optics to catch specific bandwidths otherwise you're basically trying to get the mk1 eyeball to see infrared, but your comment above basically nails the point i was trying to make. Yes it can be done, but over the expected distances that platforms operate, they need a large comm array in order to hit the wide gamut of the EM spectrum they'd be expected to need in order to coordinate efforts with both local and planetary forces. As such, if that array starts to move, yous gonna notice.

also, powering a 1MW laser for communication purposes so you can update a ship on the tactical situation it needs to resolve is still a helluva draw on power. (for lasers, power is bandwidth, so higher w/o burning things is better for communicating more w/ fewer packets)

What I'm saying is, laser communications for point-to-point signalling within a solar system is one of those technologies that is "hatchet-like

this I'll grant, it is very much like the wheel. At the same time, if you're looking for a vehicle's approach in a Mexican standoff you're very much listening for the sounds of wheels and internal combustion. IE, you can also look for the reflections of the laser off the side of the CL, and go 'Ah HA! the station is communicating with the Virmireans!' just the fact that the conversation is taking place says a lot. light scatter is a cruel mistress
 
something else to consider, this is a defense platform. Something designed to be as cheap and subtle as a cinder block. Why waste build time and space with a laser comm system? what are the odds of needing that? If they ever had one I could see them being stripped out when we took the action to make these platforms more economical.
 
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