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Nope, the main problem with the first RWF option is that the Admiral would produce a bill for his government to our government in regards to supplies and repairs.
Problem is, the Quarian Republic can turn round and say "We aren't paying it with actual money or resources."
And burn their diplomatic reputation?
You think their internal population is going to be happy with a government who stiffs a nation that went to great lengths and risk to save a couple hundred thousand of it's soldiers from the jaws of a fleet that was killing them?

Even the Soviet Union eventually finished paying off Lend-Lease to the US, during the Cold War of all times.

We are going to be paying for running the fleet for the duration anyway, regardless of what the legal paper says.
Option 1 is the only option for possibly getting some of the costs back, whether cash or in preferential trade agreements. And even if we don't, we are still getting a couple hundred thousand veteran spacers and their ships for the duration, which is beyond price at this point in time.

AND a look at their tech, which is kind of a big deal since we haven't been able to invest in cutting edge military RnD since the war started.

Furthermore, we get a reputation for dealing fairly with people on a national level.
Reputation is especially important for a new nation, and thus those people who want independence will really want this.

EDIT
I think we have to. The strong implication is the main reason we weren't counterattacked was the Terminus offensive. If the Rachni win there, they may decide to reduce their number of fronts and hit us hard.
If they pull enough forces away from their frontlines to make sure of this, they risk getting shanked in the back by the Citadel, which remains by far the larger threat.

Think of it this way:
The Rachni fight the Citadel on Turn 1. Both sides rest and rebuild and replace losses on Turn 2.
They fight again on Turn 3.

Put us and the Terminus/Quarians in the mix.
The Rachni have to fight us on Turn 2, instead of resting and replacing losses. Meantime, the Citadel rests and replaces, and starts again on Turn 3, while everyone else takes a breather.

And then Turn 4 we tag in while the Citadel tags out.
From what we can tell, even the Rachni have to train skilled workers and personnel, and losing them is a non-trivial issue, both for the economy and for their military. While they can replace unskilled personnel quickly, skilled are harder.
 
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[X][RWF] The 3rd is, realistically, at your mercy, but that is no way to treat allies. It would be grossly inappropriate to hold this leverage over them. You will recognize Admiral Malan as the local, ranking representative of the Republic of Rannoch, with absolute power over his domain and empowered to purchase yard space and other goods and services from your government in the Republic's name, credited to their government. This polite fiction, of course, binds the Republic itself not a whit, but the sheer generosity of this deal will represent a major concession on your part when you establish contact with the Republic proper and commence negotiations. Realistically, Malan will do what you ask of him regardless of the formality of your relationship -- but in this case, it would be asking, and to preserve the pretense would require that it ever remain just asking.
Furthermore, we get a reputation for dealing fairly with people on a national level.
Reputation is especially important for a new nation, and thus those people who want independence will really want this.
That exactly, we wanna be known as positively as possible. Now we only need to find a way to let the quarians vote for us us in the next election^^

[X][RUNNER] You denied his request. You're not in the habit of arguing suicide mission of this nature. You withdraw without sending any corvettes.
 
Nope, the main problem with the first RWF option is that the Admiral would produce a bill for his government to our government in regards to supplies and repairs.

Problem is, the Quarian Republic can turn round and say "We aren't paying it with actual money or resources."
Yes. Then the negotiations commence. Trade deals. Tech deals. Ressource access deals for Virmire consortiums. Military defensive pacts. And on and on. Leverage and reputation as a square dealer and goodwill.

And if we commandeer the fleet, we don't even have the bill to produce. And they start making noises about reparations for Quarian lives lost under our command. And we're on the back foot in negotiations.
 
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Why would it?
Whence comes the idea that people who want independence automatically want us to demand control of other people's armed forces?
If we link up with the Citadel or Terminus, does that mean that we automatically seize military vessels passing through systems we control?
No, we are making an explicit loan in cash and resources to the representative of a co-belligerent.
Furthermore, we get in the meantime an extra allied battlefleet to cover our defenses, tech-sharing in to upgrade our forces, and possibly future repayment if we both survive to the end of the war, as well as an in on future trade.
Legal figleaf maybe, but legal shit is important. I'm not seeing the counter-argument.

No, the point is to recognize that a friendly fleet is stranded in our borders cutoff from their government; thus it is necessary them to be commanded for the period of communication blockade. This ensures the fleet will remain with a government's control with clear understanding on each other's obligation. Zero grey area and making sure the relationship remains stable even if goodwill has ran out.

It's internet consensus not to feed the trolls.
Given the signal lack of evidence of anything of the sort, Madame Mira "89% Popularity" T'Vael will free to give their concerns precisely zero regard.
And the only fringe political party in Virmire space is pacifist, has 1% popularity, and would not care anyway.

Remember that any political field with a democracy or muti-party systems will see rapid changes in popularity because the population have short-attention span and memory. In addition to lack of party for Mira, a rather large weak point with giant "hit here" target.

Why do you think it won't irritate another nation that we basically gave one of their fleets an ultimatum?

Simple, it's either the fleet getting eaten by Rachni or starved to death then suffer epic public confidence backslash or getting the fleet back and enjoy a wonderful public photo-op of historical happiness that dilutes sadness and pain.

The lystheni did not steal our stuff; they played a sneaky dishonorable deceptive hand when we were trying to be straight with them, but they didn't actually steal from territory we had formally claimed. And while they are spying on us(like we are on them), there is absolutely zero evidence of them even thinking of meddling in our politics, or jogging our arm while we're in the middle of a genocidal war.

They're a paranoid, secretive, deceptive bunch. They're not stupid.
They don't wanna die to rachni, nor do they want to crash their economy by forcing us to break trade links or impose punitive sanctions; they currently need us more than we need them, and they know it.

I'm pretty sure that territory was declared a "neutral" buffer zone, which generally means nobody does anything there without telling the other side. Which was not what had happened, and counts as hostile action. Spying was also discovered with proof under their embassy within our fully sovereign sewer system, another black mark.

Lystheni is fully aware that they will be eaten by the bugs or crushed like a bug if the Virmire government suffer system failure. Except that Mira is not the un-replaceble equivalent of the Virmire government because we did too well in cleaning up the place and installing effective people. The existence of the assembly and the fact that the strongest PM of all time accepted an election during time of war gave enormous amount of advantage to weaken and even unseating Mira. Therefore Lystheni have every reason to weaken or remove Mira from Virmire and will not actually have to worry about getting eaten by bugs.

Edit: I should re-read my posts more. I blame coffee for everything.
 
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[X][RWF] The 3rd is, realistically, at your mercy, but that is no way to treat allies. It would be grossly inappropriate to hold this leverage over them. You will recognize Admiral Malan as the local, ranking representative of the Republic of Rannoch, with absolute power over his domain and empowered to purchase yard space and other goods and services from your government in the Republic's name, credited to their government. This polite fiction, of course, binds the Republic itself not a whit, but the sheer generosity of this deal will represent a major concession on your part when you establish contact with the Republic proper and commence negotiations. Realistically, Malan will do what you ask of him regardless of the formality of your relationship -- but in this case, it wouldbe asking, and to preserve the pretense would require that it ever remain just asking.
[X][RUNNER] You denied his request. You're not in the habit of arguing suicide mission of this nature. You withdraw without sending any corvettes.
 
I feel like as long as allies are on the offensive we'll be fine. But as soon as they halt the offensive and attempt to regroup, plan, and fortify their conquest, The Rachni can leave a defensive garrison by the border and send in a proper assault fleet to finally remove us as a threat. We're no longer something they can keep hemmed in with a skeleton force while they deal with bigger issues. We're possibly one of the biggest problems they have atm.

We don't have the strength to single-handedly win the war, but our ability to harass them from their core Forces them to spread a lot of ships around to keep us penned in. And even then, we're burning down planets, rescuing fleets and costing them very valuable ships.

It's my belief that destroying us is at the very top of the Rachni 'to do' list, as soon as they can scrape together the resources to manage. And that means as soon as the Citadel and Terminus Systems stop hitting them, even briefly. Even if our allies attempt to capitalize on the Rachni's detraction, we'll be dead and the Rachni's ability to reallocate all those resources they're currently spending on us means they come out ahead.

We don't know what our allies have planned, but by sending them information that implicates the Rachni's war weariness and highlights our strategic importance, we can encourage the allied offensive to continue until a corridor is opened to us, at a bare minimum. This sort of information may lead directly to the sort of push that could end this war.

This information is far, far more valuable than the Hero unit's rolls with the explorer corps. If it reaches the right people, if they interpret it correctly... This one action could do more to end the war than any other single action before or afterwards.

It is madness to deny this request.
 
[X][RWF] The 3rd is, realistically, at your mercy, but that is no way to treat allies. It would be grossly inappropriate to hold this leverage over them. You will recognize Admiral Malan as the local, ranking representative of the Republic of Rannoch, with absolute power over his domain and empowered to purchase yard space and other goods and services from your government in the Republic's name, credited to their government. This polite fiction, of course, binds the Republic itself not a whit, but the sheer generosity of this deal will represent a major concession on your part when you establish contact with the Republic proper and commence negotiations. Realistically, Malan will do what you ask of him regardless of the formality of your relationship -- but in this case, it wouldbe asking, and to preserve the pretense would require that it ever remain just asking.
[X][RUNNER] You denied his request. You're not in the habit of arguing suicide mission of this nature. You withdraw without sending any corvettes.
 
No, the point is to recognize that a friendly fleet is stranded in our borders cutoff from their government; thus it is necessary them to be commanded for the period of communication blockade. This ensures the fleet will remain with a government's control with clear understanding on each other's obligation. Zero grey area and making sure the relationship remains stable even if goodwill has ran out.
The Quarians are under the command of a government. The Quarian government. It's the same way Admiral Nelson was under the command of the British government during Trafalgar. We need to coordinate with them as allies, but we don't strictly need to be commanding them at this point.

We may need to negotiate a tighter command structure if we ever plan to do a big joint offensive with them, but right now the one and only order we would give them would be to maul any Rachni forces that try to attack us. The friendly option is plenty strong enough to accomplish that. If we need more control we can negotiate for it when it comes up.

Outright strong-arming allied forces is a bad look. Not the worst look, but not a good one. It's especially unwise when the ally forces as a whole are noticeably stronger than yours.
 
Seriously though, people usually don't volunteer for suicide runs unless they think it's important.
 
No, the point is to recognize that a friendly fleet is stranded in our borders cutoff from their government; thus it is necessary them to will be commanded for the period of communication blockade. This ensures the fleet will remain with a government's control with clear understanding on each other's obligation. Zero grey area and making sure the relationship remains stable even if goodwill has ran out.
Dude, this is a solved problem.

Naval fleets have historically operated for months and years out of range of political control with their head admiral acting as plenipotentiary governmental representative, as far back as the sixteenth century at least, when Elizabeth Tudor would send Drake off on a year and half campaign against Spanish interests literally an ocean away, from Spain to Cape Verde to Colombia to Florida.

Co-belligerents have operated out of the ports of allies without demanding control of each other's fleets.
Furthermore, our military requirements do not require us to have control of them. Even if they just sit in Attican Beta and watch the relays, it suits us fine.

Remember that any political field with a democracy or muti-party systems will see rapid changes in popularity because the population have short-attention span and memory. In addition to lack of party for Mira, a rather large weak point with giant "hit here" target.
This is not a political simulation.
And furthermore, the population does not have a short attention span when aliens who literally want to genocide them are a pair of Relay jumps away.
That's like asking chickens to forget there is a chickenhawk overhead.

Simple, it's either the fleet getting eaten by Rachni or starved to death then suffer epic public confidence backslash or getting the fleet back and enjoy a wonderful public photo-op of historical happiness that dilutes sadness and pain.
This is a false dichotomy.
There is zero indication of a public confidence backlash; the public trusts the PC to handle military and diplomatic affairs until she fucks up bigly.
She hasn't yet.

I'm pretty sure that territory was declared a "neutral" buffer zone, which generally means nobody does anything there without telling the other side. Which was not what had happened, and counts as hostile action. Spying was also discovered with proof under their embassy within our fully sovereign sewer system, another black mark.
No it wasn't.
Neither SO4 nor SO7 was officially declared a neutral zone.
Nothing they did there was illegal by the letter of the law; shat all over the spirit, but not the letter.

Spying? Everyone spies on each other.
It's the breadth of their operation that's irritating, not that they're spying.
Lystheni is fully aware that they will be eaten by the bugs or crushed like a bug if the Virmire government suffer system failure. Except that Mira is not the un-replaceble equivalent of the Virmire government because we did too well in cleaning up the place and installing effective people. The existence of the assemble and the fact that the strongest PM of all time accepted an election during time of war gave enormous amount of advantage to weaken and even unseating Mira. Therefore Lystheni have every reason to weaken or remove Mira from Virmire and will not actually have to worry about getting eaten by bugs.
Your assertion is that in the middle of a genocidal war, the Lystheni consider it in their interest to undermine the single best admiral on the side preventing them from becoming dinner.
And not just that, to risk punitive economic, and possibly military action by their only trading partner.

Yeah, I don't buy that. You need more people.
I feel like as long as allies are on the offensive we'll be fine. But as soon as they halt the offensive and attempt to regroup, plan, and fortify their conquest, The Rachni can leave a defensive garrison by the border and send in a proper assault fleet to finally remove us as a threat. We're no longer something they can keep hemmed in with a skeleton force while they deal with bigger issues. We're possibly one of the biggest problems they have atm.
As threats go, I doubt we're that far up on the list.

The quarians just punched a multi-dreadnought fleet through the Hades Nexus and much of the Nubian Expanse and their defensive fleets.
The Terminus is kicking off a full-fledged offensive aimed at taking away multiple systems from Rachni control.
We only managed to pull off a pair of successful raids and one unsuccessful one, and we haven't actually produced any dreads yet.

After we took Attican Beta, we went up significantly as a threat vector, but everyone else seems to have raised their threat rating enough for us to fade into the background. But we'll see what our Rachni attention is after this stunt.
 
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We don't know what our allies have planned, but by sending them information that implicates the Rachni's war weariness and highlights our strategic importance, we can encourage the allied offensive to continue until a corridor is opened to us, at a bare minimum. This sort of information may lead directly to the sort of push that could end this war.
We don't have that information at the moment we sent Kurik.

But we'll see what our Rachni attention is after this stunt.
"Pita".
 
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The Quarians are under the command of a government. The Quarian government. It's the same way Admiral Nelson was under the command of the British government during Trafalgar. We need to coordinate with them as allies, but we don't strictly need to be commanding them at this point.

We may need to negotiate a tighter command structure if we ever plan to do a big joint offensive with them, but right now the one and only order we would give them would be to maul any Rachni forces that try to attack us. The friendly option is plenty strong enough to accomplish that. If we need more control we can negotiate for it when it comes up.

Outright strong-arming allied forces is a bad look. Not the worst look, but not a good one. It's especially unwise when the ally forces as a whole are noticeably stronger than yours.

Assuming we went with the nice approach where the fleet remains outside of our command structure officially and the cutoff remains for next 5 years.
  • Does the Quarian soldiers obey our law on our soil or space stations?
  • Had they committed a crime on their ship completely unrelated to our population or property, do them conduct their law proceedings independently under their structure?
    • What happens if one of their's came to us for sanctuary?
  • Birth on Quarian fleet or our clinic, which state does the baby belong to? Citadel due to Virmire being a Citadel colony? Virmire state since we declared Independence around that time? RoR since it's the baby's lineage?
  • If RoR soldier committed a crime (say a fist fight after one drink too many) involving our citizen, is the case under our law or RoR law?
Strong-arming or mutual understanding or unofficial cooperation or not, the government can't solve these kind of issue if we don't bring the fleet under a structure where both them and us have legal ground to conduct talks between foreign government and foreign military without their government's input.
 
[X][RWF] The 3rd is, realistically, at your mercy, but that is no way to treat allies. It would be grossly inappropriate to hold this leverage over them. You will recognize Admiral Malan as the local, ranking representative of the Republic of Rannoch, with absolute power over his domain and empowered to purchase yard space and other goods and services from your government in the Republic's name, credited to their government. This polite fiction, of course, binds the Republic itself not a whit, but the sheer generosity of this deal will represent a major concession on your part when you establish contact with the Republic proper and commence negotiations. Realistically, Malan will do what you ask of him regardless of the formality of your relationship -- but in this case, it would be asking, and to preserve the pretense would require that it ever remain just asking.
[X][RUNNER] You denied his request. You're not in the habit of arguing suicide mission of this nature. You withdraw without sending any corvettes.
 
Assuming we went with the nice approach where the fleet remains outside of our command structure officially and the cutoff remains for next 5 years.
  • Does the Quarian soldiers obey our law on our soil or space stations?
  • Had they committed a crime on their ship completely unrelated to our population or property, do them conduct their law proceedings independently under their structure?
    • What happens if one of their's came to us for sanctuary?
  • Birth on Quarian fleet or our clinic, which state does the baby belong to? Citadel due to Virmire being a Citadel colony? Virmire state since we declared Independence around that time? RoR since it's the baby's lineage?
  • If RoR soldier committed a crime (say a fist fight after one drink too many) involving our citizen, is the case under our law or RoR law?
Strong-arming or mutual understanding or unofficial cooperation or not, the government can't solve these kind of issue if we don't bring the fleet under a structure where both them and us have legal ground to conduct talks between foreign government and foreign military without their government's input.
1) - why would it stay outside? De facto it'd be integrated into a joint command structure, but the Admiral would be asked to do that. And to follow the suggestions the joint command structure comes up with. Since he'll be part of that because we'd be utter morons not to use his expertise ...
2) Why on earth would foreign soldiers on leave not have to follow the laws of the land (planet) they are visiting?
3) People of a foreign power (for example, Lystheni) asking for asylum would be processed as usual.
4) What has the place of birth to do with nationality? This is not the US.
5) Local jurisdiction applies.
 
Seriously though, people usually don't volunteer for suicide runs unless they think it's important.
Yes, and they can still be wrong even so.
At the moment, Mira does not know Kurik from Adam, and she is known to have a distaste for unnecessarily risking the lives of her men.
And he is more valuable to us where he is than taking an unplanned, risky jaunt into a freefire zone with no backup.

Heh.
Assuming we went with the nice approach where the fleet remains outside of our command structure officially and the cutoff remains for next 5 years.
  • Does the Quarian soldiers obey our law on our soil or space stations?
  • Had they committed a crime on their ship completely unrelated to our population or property, do them conduct their law proceedings independently under their structure?
    • What happens if one of their's came to us for sanctuary?
  • Birth on Quarian fleet or our clinic, which state does the baby belong to? Citadel due to Virmire being a Citadel colony? Virmire state since we declared Independence around that time? RoR since it's the baby's lineage?
  • If RoR soldier committed a crime (say a fist fight after one drink too many) involving our citizen, is the case under our law or RoR law?
You talk like these are not all solved problems. Like this is literally the first time a foreign fleet or army has operated from an ally's facilities.
If British law did not collapse under the almost 3 million American GIs who came through the UK during WW2, hosting a couple hundred thousand Quarians is not going to keep anyone of the six billion strong Virmirean population up at night.

Strong-arming or mutual understanding or unofficial cooperation or not, the government can't solve these kind of issue if we don't bring the fleet under a structure where both them and us have legal ground to conduct talks between foreign government and foreign military without their government's input.
You mean like how the US-led UN Intervention Force operated in South Korea during the Korean War? The South Korean government did not take command of said troops then, and it worked out.
Again, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
 
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No it wasn't.
Neither SO4 nor SO7 was officially declared a neutral zone.
Nothing they did there was illegal by the letter of the law; shat all over the spirit, but not the letter.

What do you know! You are right that it wasn't declared a neutral zone, we claim both So4 and SO7.

[X] Accept their terms. Lystheni formalize their claim between and immediately neighboring their current systems, thus formalizing their territory, and all systems neighboring this territory are mutually acknowledged as neutral space. Claim SO 4. Total -30 Lystheni Relations and +10 Neighbors Attention.

Dude, this is a solved problem.

Naval fleets have historically operated for months and years out of range of political control with their head admiral acting as plenipotentiary governmental representative, as far back as the sixteenth century at least, when Elizabeth Tudor would send Drake off on a year and half campaign against Spanish interests literally an ocean away, from Spain to Cape Verde to Colombia to Florida.

Co-belligerents have operated out of the ports of allies without demanding control of each other's fleets.
Furthermore, our military requirements do not require us to have control of them. Even if they just sit in Attican Beta and watch the relays, it suits us fine.

@PoptartProdigy Do we know if RoR fleet have someone been fully authorized power to make the things suggested?

This is not a political simulation.
And furthermore, the population does not have a short attention span when aliens who literally want to genocide them are a pair of Relay jumps away.
That's like asking chickens to forget there is a chickenhawk overhead.

Not a political simulation? Where did the assembly power, style, and election systems discussions go?:o

This is a false dichotomy.
There is zero indication of a public confidence backlash; the public trusts the PC to handle military and diplomatic affairs until she fucks up bigly.
She hasn't yet.

I was actually talking about RoR reaction instead of our government's reaction.

Your assertion is that in the middle of a genocidal war, the Lystheni consider it in their interest to undermine the single best admiral on the side preventing them from becoming dinner.
And not just that, to risk punitive economic, and possibly military action by their only trading partner.
Yeah, I don't buy that. You need more people.

Sure, like how corporations or politicians has never sold out their political enemies nor their countries' interests.
 
Strong-arming or mutual understanding or unofficial cooperation or not, the government can't solve these kind of issue if we don't bring the fleet under a structure where both them and us have legal ground to conduct talks between foreign government and foreign military without their government's input.
Others have addressed your concerns, and I don't share any of them.

On this one, we do have a structure. We recognise the Admiral as the ranking representative of his government. All talks, all decisions, judgments- the RoR perspective lies with him. He is his governments input, as their highest representative. No problem.
 
What do you know! You are right that it wasn't declared a neutral zone, we claim both So4 and SO7.
We claimed SO4 AFTER the Lystheni had looted it to bedrock.
SO17 is still unclaimed ground.

@PoptartProdigy Do we know if RoR fleet have someone been fully authorized power to make the things suggested?
I quote:
You will recognize Admiral Malan as the local, ranking representative of the Republic of Rannoch, with absolute power over his domain and empowered to purchase yard space and other goods and services from your government in the Republic's name, credited to their government.
That's the only addition of powers he already has over his own fleet, as bestowed by his own government. When on voyage, captains are God on their own ship, and admirals over their own fleet.

Not a political simulation? Where did the assembly power, style, and election systems discussions go?:o
Discussing the structure of government =/= roleplaying election campaigns.

I was actually talking about RoR reaction instead of our government's reaction.
Admirals have legal officers for precisely reasons like this.
Entire military legal codes for crimes from murder to malingering. The authority to shut down bases, establish curfew, ban their officers from drinking or socializing with civilians, or even going off ship.

You really underestimate how much power a commanding officer has over the men in his care as a matter of course.
Sure, like how corporations or politicians has never sold out their political enemies nor their countries' interests.
At the moment, you are claiming the Lystheni are in effect functionally retarded.
This is an extraordinary claim, and requires extraordinary proof.
Churchill was no fan of Stalin or communism, and yet was very much in favor of aiding him against Hitler; to quote:
"If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.
 
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As threats go, I doubt we're that far up on the list.

The quarians just punched a multi-dreadnought fleet through the Hades Nexus and much of the Nubian Expanse and their defensive fleets.
The Terminus is kicking off a full-fledged offensive aimed at taking away multiple systems from Rachni control.
We only managed to pull off a pair of successful raids and one unsuccessful one, and we haven't actually produced any dreads yet.

After we took Attican Beta, we went up significantly as a threat vector, but everyone else seems to have raised their threat rating enough for us to fade into the background. But we'll see what our Rachni attention is after this stunt.
What I've learned playing games like Hearts of Iron or even Risk is that you definitely want to kill somebody in our position. Desperately, even.

When they could station a single stack to keep us penned in, we were negligible.

When we broke through, threatening multiple systems, they'd be wary, cautious, but not particularly threatened. "Damn", they'd say. "We need to do something about that when we can. For now, defend, if they try anything on one side we'll get them from the other. Back to fighting France and Russia..."

Now we've become Austria-hungary, and with our Czech puppet we're threatening core territory and have way more troops than expected. If they don't pull out of Poland to deal with us, they're basically dead. They can take back Poland from russia afterwards, right?

We don't have that information at the moment we sent Kurik.
That's only half-true. We have the information, we just haven't analyzed it yet or made the appropriate deductions. They should be able to make the same deductions we're about to make, if we manage to give them the raw data.

I suppose it's a bit meta in terms of Mira making the choice without realizing exactly how important it is, but it's information freely given to the players before the vote so I don't feel bad about it.

Yes, and they can still be wrong even so.
At the moment, Mira does not know Kurik from Adam, and she is known to have a distaste for unnecessarily risking the lives of her men.
And he is more valuable to us where he is than taking an unplanned, risky jaunt into a freefire zone with no backup.
The first part is IC Mira reasoning. As Mira doesn't know Kurik, she has no particular reason to value his life. Rather than throwing it away, it's a question of if she's willing to trust this random captain to make decisions about his own worth and usefulness.

The last part is you, OOC overriding his IC belief that this is worth risking his life. It's saying "my tactical assessment of the situation is more accurate than Kurik's". Nothing wrong with that, but I think having Kurik on my side gives my argument a bit more weight, given that unlike Mira we know he's a pretty sharp dude. It may be more accurate to say I'm on his side of this vote. It's his suggestion.
 
@MTB

1) - why would it stay outside? De facto it'd be integrated into a joint command structure, but the Admiral would be asked to do that. And to follow the suggestions the joint command structure comes up with. Since he'll be part of that because we'd be utter morons not to use his expertise ...

It's the part where the Admiral have absolute power over his domain that i do not like. Because it means he does not need to do jack if he or his fleet feels they are not yet ready or simply does not feel like do anything.

[ ][RWF] The 3rd is, realistically, at your mercy, but that is no way to treat allies. It would be grossly inappropriate to hold this leverage over them. You will recognize Admiral Malan as the local, ranking representative of the Republic of Rannoch, with absolute power over his domain and empowered to purchase yard space and other goods and services from your government in the Republic's name, credited to their government. This polite fiction, of course, binds the Republic itself not a whit, but the sheer generosity of this deal will represent a major concession on your part when you establish contact with the Republic proper and commence negotiations. Realistically, Malan will do what you ask of him regardless of the formality of your relationship -- but in this case, it would be asking, and to preserve the pretense would require that it ever remain just asking.

2) Why on earth would foreign soldiers on leave not have to follow the laws of the land (planet) they are visiting?

Ask the soldiers stationed in oversea bases post WW2, Cold War, or current day. The exists news of soldiers committing crimes where the local authority can't stop or prosecute because the army base was simply untouchable.

3) People of a foreign power (for example, Lystheni) asking for asylum would be processed as usual.

Do we do anything if their origin state ask for them, after consideration on relationship between states?

4) What has the place of birth to do with nationality? This is not the US.

If it involves our national? Like it or not, babies pop out and we have to take care of them because fleet is no place for them. Then comes the school questions, family relationship, marriage. We don't know how long the war and blockade will last.

Usually they do so expecting to profit. The profit here would be - getting last in line for the banquet?

Getting the seat of Prime Minister's office actually, as well as removal of the threat of purge in corporation sector. Pretty sure some of our political contender are heavily lobbied by corporations to turn back the clock too.

At the moment, you are claiming the Lystheni are in effect functionally retarded.
This is an extraordinary claim, and requires extraordinary proof.
Churchill was no fan of Stalin or communism, and yet was very much in favor of aiding him against Hitler; to quote:

I am claiming the Lystheni are in fact assertive and felt the success of our fleets have completed ensured that Rachni are unable to assault the core system. Even better now that our stable government have competent replacement commander, nearly unprecedented amount of centralization around Mira; who have not been playing the political game and actually went and limit her own power. An excellent investment to curtail or even remove Mira will result in political chaos that likely makes Virmire much more agreeable.
 
... Reading some of this discussion that has nothing to do with the current vote... I hope it doesn't influence Mira's opinion. I know I'm skimming it and I'm disagreeing with most of what VoidZero is thinking when he implies distrust of the Quarian Admiral and speculation that the Lystheni would expect to benefit from removing Mira, among other speculation.

In fact, I wouldn't have bothered commenting at all except for the small chance that not commenting might make Mira more paranoid than she needs to be. All because discussion affects Mira's mindset...
 
What I've learned playing games like Hearts of Iron or even Risk is that you definitely want to kill somebody in our position. Desperately, even.
Turns out that when you are fighting a war on four fronts, you might be a little strapped for resources to do everything you might want to do.
And might decide to prioritize the enemies with multiple dreadnought fleets over that with none.
Funny, eh?:V
The first part is IC Mira reasoning. As Mira doesn't know Kurik, she has no particular reason to value his life. Rather than throwing it away, it's a question of if she's willing to trust this random captain to make decisions about his own worth and usefulness.
She has every reason to value his life, and that of his crew; they're Explorer Corps, which means Virmire has invested inordinate resources in selecting and training them.And the Explorer Corps just displayed it's quality.

As commander in chief, with higher intel clearance and a full five points of Martial better than him, she has a better view of the potential risks, as well as the greater economic implications of gambling a large chunk of her nascent Explorer Corps on a high risk toss of the dice that won't pay off for multiple turns, if it does at all.
The last part is you, OOC overriding his IC belief that this is worth risking his life. It's saying "my tactical assessment of the situation is more accurate than Kurik's". Nothing wrong with that, but I think having Kurik on my side gives my argument a bit more weight, given that unlike Mira we know he's a pretty sharp dude. It may be more accurate to say I'm on his side of this vote. It's his suggestion.
IC, it's Martial 24 Mira saying her assessment of the situation is more accurate than Martial 19 Kurik.
It's also Stewardship 18 Mira telling Stewardship 5 Kurik that the economic value of his Explorer Corps crew in finding new planets and relays is worth more than a longshot throw of the dice on a mission no one prepared for.

OOC, it's me simply asserting that we need his Hero bonus on exploration, so that there are more planets of value for the FDO to exploit to fuel our war machine. It's also me deciding that his Intrigue Score, which is much better than ours, means that we need him around for our Personal Actions.
Which is kinda important, since if our raids are to be successful, they need to be guided by the best intelligence available.

I mean, OOC it might seem like Mira is a gambler. She really isn't.
She may have nerves of cold steel, but calculated risks after stacking every cheat she can are way more in her character than blind rolls of the dice.
And she really doesn't like losing people, even if the people are willing.
I am claiming the Lystheni are in fact assertive and felt the success of our fleets have completed ensured that Rachni are unable to assault the core system. Even better now that our stable government have competent replacement commander, nearly unprecedented amount of centralization around Mira; who have not been playing the political game and actually went and limit her own power. An excellent investment to curtail or even remove Mira will result in political chaos that likely makes Virmire much more agreeable.
Citation needed. For all of this.
 
It's the part where the Admiral have absolute power over his domain that i do not like. Because it means he does not need to do jack if he or his fleet feels they are not yet ready or simply does not feel like do anything.
I simply don't think the admiral who got command of a battle fleet and fought would do so simply for 'I don't feel like it' reasons. For once, not in-character for him, and there's not much stopping us from removing the fig leaf.
If they feel they are not ready we'd do good to listen to him because it's his fleet and his people and he knows them.
Ask the soldiers stationed in oversea bases post WW2, Cold War, or current day. The exists news of soldiers committing crimes where the local authority can't stop or prosecute because the army base was simply untouchable.
That was a superpower strong-arming their bases. Here, it's vice versa.

Do we do anything if their origin state ask for them, after consideration on relationship between states?
That depends on the treaties we will have will won't sign. At the time of contact.

Getting the seat of Prime Minister's office actually, as well as removal of the threat of purge in corporation sector. Pretty sure some of our political contender are heavily lobbied by corporations to turn back the clock too.
The original answer was about Lystheni backstabbing us, but, whatever. Yes, I agree, no lack of short-sighted idiots. But even short-sighted CEOs don't work alone, cannot do shit alone and have to convince/browbeat/blackmail others. Now, if we start with unpopular measures, lose some fights and get a few of our cities annihilated, that might convince enough people that we must be removed. Stopping looney loners however, is the job of our internal security.
I am claiming the Lystheni are in fact assertive and felt the success of our fleets have completed ensured that Rachni are unable to assault the core system. Even better now that our stable government have competent replacement commander, nearly unprecedented amount of centralization around Mira; who have not been playing the political game and actually went and limit her own power. An excellent investment to curtail or even remove Mira will result in political chaos that likely makes Virmire much more agreeable.
But that claim is functionally saying the Lystheni are retarded. Because why are the Terminus, Citadel and Quarians still fighting if we managed to "have completed ensured that Rachni are unable to assault the core system"?

... that is spaghetti posting, isn't it? Anyone an idea how to avoid that and still make clear which point I'm trying to address?


//

And might decide to prioritize the enemies with multiple dreadnought fleets over that with none.
Funny, eh?:V
Hmmmmmm - so, we should stick to battle cruisers?
 
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