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The Practice War [Complete]

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I'm all for Unison dress, Open smile.

I want to meet them at the Guest Halls, with a write-in of observing them as they disembark.

I'm undecided on the topic of titles, though Mother of Circles (one who shaped the form of our society) might be an interesting one. The Speaker (with the in-joke of Speaking Words) is also an option.
mastigos said:
funniest title: former president
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Nope. TRUE most hilarious title is:
Lady in Fire Enfolded

As in, presenting ourselves as a messiah.
 
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mastigos said:
This is the most amusing combo. Probably not the wisest choice (DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS) but "wait, the agressively friendly woman wearing weird clothes who was overly familiar and very insistent on treating us like family ... is a member of the elite task force that was key to defeating the Shiplords. What. The. Fuck?

(DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS)
[] Guest Halls – Informal, short with a possibility to extend.
[] Manifest Unison – your Aegis is as unique a piece of clothing as could ever be produced, and also grants you the highest chance of detecting individuals affected by Shiplord infiltration systems, if they exist. Clearly demonstrates human technological prowess in a way that the Contact Fleet literally cannot match, but will likely draw attention to Practice.
[] Unison – the title you earned as a member of the Two Twenty Three, it's one that the aliens are very unlikely to understand. The general meanings of the word are good ones, but when the Contact Fleet actually works out what it's in reference to some interesting delayed reactions are likely.
[] Circle Greeting – although highly unorthodox in a formal situation, you aren't bound to those. Greet the representatives as you would a new or prospective member of the Circles, with joy, compassion and warmth. Might be a little much to already consider them a member of (albeit extended) family, though.
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I actually really like this.

With a possible alteration of greeting them at the docks, this plan seems very "Amanda" to me.

This said, going with "Envoy" could be interesting as well.

But I am really in favor to do a Circle greeting. This is what Amanda wants to do - and I think her instincts are correct.
 
LockedMind said:
I'm thinking
Guest halls
Manifest unison
Envoy (or maybe Unison for interesting reactions)
Open smile

Would probably prefer Casual to Manifest unison if it was only a stylistic choice, but in this situation better safe than sorry.
I don't like decision line "be like other diplomats" at all, because we aren't like them.
Circle greeting may be misinterpreted - I would be willing to try it with some race which is receptive to it according to our info, but among six of them there is going to be at least one with negative reaction.
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There also could be some races with negative reactions to open smile, since an open smile shows teeth, a sign of aggression in many cultures.

Some good will and acceptance has to be expected.
 
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veekie said:
[] Plan An Open Secret
-[] Landing Dock – highest chance of 'immediate' reactions from your new guests, without the benefit of more extensive time to adjust to human norms. You know their reaction manual, they don't know yours. A bit of an underhanded move, but the docking areas are fully equipped for diplomatic functions. Highly formal, but likely to be short.
-[] Manifest Unison – your Aegis is as unique a piece of clothing as could ever be produced, and also grants you the highest chance of detecting individuals affected by Shiplord infiltration systems, if they exist. Clearly demonstrates human technological prowess in a way that the Contact Fleet literally cannot match, but will likely draw attention to Practice.
-[] Unison – the title you earned as a member of the Two Twenty Three, it's one that the aliens are very unlikely to understand. The general meanings of the word are good ones, but when the Contact Fleet actually works out what it's in reference to some interesting delayed reactions are likely.
-[] Open Smile – against a backdrop of diplomatic smiles, yours will be the one that shines true. Although not all the races present are likely to understand the very human expression, you're confident in your ability to translate it across to them effectively. Well suited to informal or formal occasions.

Way I see it, none of these are secrets we can keep for very long, we have authorization to show it off in these limited ways, and this gives us a diplomatic shock and awe effect to stun them and continue to stun them afterwards once they figure out.
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The first two maximize chances of detecting infiltrators, so I'd combine them.
And since we are having both Vision and Iris look in here, there's no real point at hiding tech advantages. Especially since we built Concordia partly with help of Practice.

Open Smile feels like the Amanda choice as well.

I'd go with Envoy rather than Unison though; for one thing, it ensures that we aren't making any explicit or implicit promises, which avoids stepping on the toes of the regular diplomats. And for another, it allows us to see how long before they figure out what organizations we're linked to, which gives us a baseline for just how effective their intel-gathering is from a cold start.

[]PLAN SUNSHINE
-[] Landing Dock – highest chance of 'immediate' reactions from your new guests, without the benefit of more extensive time to adjust to human norms. You know their reaction manual, they don't know yours. A bit of an underhanded move, but the docking areas are fully equipped for diplomatic functions. Highly formal, but likely to be short.
-[] Manifest Unison – your Aegis is as unique a piece of clothing as could ever be produced, and also grants you the highest chance of detecting individuals affected by Shiplord infiltration systems, if they exist. Clearly demonstrates human technological prowess in a way that the Contact Fleet literally cannot match, but will likely draw attention to Practice.
-[] Envoy – a neutral designator, it grants you a broad mandate to discussion but is vague enough that nothing you say could really be considered binding. A private citizen, acting on the request of the President. It understates a great deal, but that could be wise.
-[] Open Smile – against a backdrop of diplomatic smiles, yours will be the one that shines true. Although not all the races present are likely to understand the very human expression, you're confident in your ability to translate it across to them effectively. Well suited to informal or formal occasions.
 
I'm all for aliens interlude! Also can't wait for their reaction when their analysts and data-gatherers tell them that there is a minor religion centered on this strange "Envoy" woman or show them "Purify" clips. :D

(As I understand it, "Purify" and its cause (except for exact Speaking mechanics) is open knowledge and clips are floating in the Net. So it is not hard to discover that the source of the beam is, somehow, some phenomenon called "Practice" and this friendly woman and not some secret weapon (although, on the second thought, Amanda, Kalilah and 223 may qualify as secret weapons)).
 
@Snowfire - how openly accessible are Amanda's broadcasted actions during the tribute fleet fight, and how accessible is our public internet, where you cannot not see Amanda?
@ "Manner" - human body language cannot mean anything for aliens. They don't know humans yet. So, deviating in our greeting from that of our diplomats will simply send garbled signals - "why do these people greet us like that, but this one not?".
 
acegunner said:
Can the shiplords hack souls?
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Mmmmaybe? That whole "Essence disruption" thing seems to be indicative of some sort of anti-Practice effect, and some sort of soul magic is our best guess for what Practice actually is.

Faraway-R said:
I'm undecided on the topic of titles, though Mother of Circles (one who shaped the form of our society) might be an interesting one.
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I like this idea best so far. Amanda's not here as the lead diplomat (although she has great Diplomacy); she's not here as the head of Security (although she might offer some unique insights there); and she's not here as the head of the 223, which remains our premier Practice military company (although she's probably one of the strongest human fighters); she's here because, as Adriana said, "no one else alive that has the same common support, or knows humanity as well as you do." Amanda is, essentially, an unofficial Minister of Culture, the woman who built the scaffolding upon which Humanity 2.0's culture has grown, and that's why she's here now.

Faraway-R said:
Lady in Fire Enfolded
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Head Meguca. :V

Mizu said:
[X] PLAN SUNSHINE
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Voting's not open for another two hours. My take:

[] Plan Minister of Culture
-[] Guest Halls – given your clearance, it would be possible to introduce yourself informally after the Contact Fleet representatives come aboard. They've accepted your offer of accommodation for their representatives, although it took a little explaining of the human connotations of diplomatic privileges, and you could just happen to be there to welcome them once they've gotten past the formal greetings at the docks. Informal, short with a possibility to extend.
-[] Manifest Unison – your Aegis is as unique a piece of clothing as could ever be produced, and also grants you the highest chance of detecting individuals affected by Shiplord infiltration systems, if they exist. Clearly demonstrates human technological prowess in a way that the Contact Fleet literally cannot match, but will likely draw attention to Practice.
-[] Mother of Circles - of the many hats you've worn over the years, the one that most qualifies you to be here, indeed, demands you be here, is the position you earned building a new culture for humanity in the wake of the Sorrows. As Adriana said, "no one else alive that has the same common support, or knows humanity as well as you do."
-[] Open Smile – against a backdrop of diplomatic smiles, yours will be the one that shines true. Although not all the races present are likely to understand the very human expression, you're confident in your ability to translate it across to them effectively. Well suited to informal or formal occasions.

This gives us the opportunity to see the Contact reps before any "official" negotiations start, but in an informal setting so we can potentially get more done (and maybe pick up on anything our initial security guys missed before it can interfere with the actual negotiations).
 
[] Plan Aliens are Aliens
-[] Landing Dock (see below)
-[] Manifest Unison (infiltrator detection. And will be recognized once the aliens get access to our public network)
-[] "Representative" – Amanda represents humanity, the diplomats the governing function
-[] From Afar (don't confuse the aliens. Baring fangs isn't immediately recognizable as friendly)
 
TheEyes said:
-[] Mother of Circles - of the many hats you've worn over the years, the one that most qualifies you to be here, indeed, demands you be here, is the position you earned building a new culture for humanity in the wake of the Sorrows. As Adriana said, "no one else alive that has the same common support, or knows humanity as well as you do."
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Here's the thing:
We're not president. We're not (officially) politically active. Influential as we are, we chose to give Adria space.
Presenting this way implicitly claims authority in a way the aliens cannot fail to pick up.

We would be undercutting the main message of the actual diplomatic contingent as opposed to serving as a plenipotentiary envoy who can serve as an auxiliary channel, and if necessary be disavowed for going beyond her remit.

EDIT
MTB said:
-[] "Representative" – Amanda represents humanity, the diplomats the governing function
-[] From Afar (don't confuse the aliens. Baring fangs isn't immediately recognizable as friendly)
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1) No she doesn't. And again, it undermines the government's actual negotiating team to claim some sort of "special" link to humanity.
Especially since Amanda has been doing her best to avoid any sort of religious role.

Heck, might undermine the thrust of our fifteen years of governance, since we have been going out of our way to ensure that we are not an indispensable figure.


2) The choice is fine; I don't agree, but it's fine.
But the whole baring fangs justification is balderdash. Project Insight spent a significant amount of time on these people; if there were specific body language taboos, it would be in our briefing packet.

The fact that Amanda considers an open smile as permissible says it's not.

And it's not like people who interact with sentient fungi are going to freak out about alien body language.
One of the polities here is a multispecies one, after all.
 
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uju32 said:
Here's the thing:
We're not president. We're not (officially) politically active. Influential as we are, we chose to give Adria space.
Presenting this way implicitly claims authority in a way the aliens cannot fail to pick up.

We would be undercutting the main message of the actual diplomatic contingent as opposed to serving as a plenipotentiary envoy who can serve as an auxiliary channel, and if necessary be disavowed for going beyond her remit.

EDIT

1) No she doesn't. And again, it undermines the government's actual negotiating team.
2) The choice is fine; I don't agree, but it's fine.
But the whole baring fangs justification is balderdash. Project Insight spent a significant amount of time on these people; if there were specific body language taboos, it would be in our briefing packet.

The fact that Amanda considers an open smile as permissible says it's not.

And it's not like people who interact with sentient fungi are going to freak out about alien body language.
One of the polities here is a multispecies one, after all.
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The last update told us explicitely that the aliens don't have the 'Humans: 101' available yet. Therefore, human body language cannot transport the meaning it'd transport when talking to other humans.
But perhaps I should abstain from this vote because the options themselves explicitely use human body language to transport meaning towards aliens, which breaks SOD hard for me.
 
MTB said:
The last update told us explicitely that the aliens don't have the 'Humans: 101' available yet. Therefore, human body language cannot transport the meaning it'd transport when talking to other humans.
But perhaps I should abstain from this vote because the options themselves explicitely use human body language to transport meaning towards aliens, which breaks SOD hard for me.
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Only the Sarthee and Marionettes are single species.

The Cich'swa Confederacy and the Schorvan are both multispecies polities, and therefore are pretty cosmopolitan.
They have experience with shit like this, as well as some Second Secret mods to help.
And the Nileans are bullshit. Also multispecies. So are the Telas.

And there's the intelligent translator program the Shiplords left behind that we reverse-engineered.
We have advantages, but we have no idea what the other states bring to the table, or how quickly they'll pick up basic human body language.
 
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MTB said:
the options themselves explicitely use human body language to transport meaning towards aliens
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Getting this right now before I infodump later; I'm using human terminology in the explanations because it's the easiest way to explain it. You may consider @uju32 correct in their assumption that the actual delivery of Amanda's manner will be routed through her understanding of the contact fleet's numerous social customs.

This won't be perfect, and it will certainly cause some confusion in regards to 'how the hell do they know all this stuff?' but it will be effective. As for 'human 101', a basic version is included in your Contact package. It's just that it takes time to absorb that sort of stuff - Sidra let Amanda cheat. Although you have, in an interlude, seen the Nileans use technology to mess with their processing speed.
 
Snowfire said:
Getting this right now before I infodump later; I'm using human terminology in the explanations because it's the easiest way to explain it. You may consider @uju32 correct in their assumption that the actual delivery of Amanda's manner will be routed through her understanding of the contact fleet's numerous social customs.
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Thanks for the info. Using the human terminology in your update had the stated effect on me - "how the hell are the aliens parsing human body language when they have no experience with humans" coupled with "why would humanity2.0 assume that could work".
 
Oh yeah, eight hours gone, so voting time.

[X]PLAN SUNSHINE
-[X] Landing Dock – highest chance of 'immediate' reactions from your new guests, without the benefit of more extensive time to adjust to human norms. You know their reaction manual, they don't know yours. A bit of an underhanded move, but the docking areas are fully equipped for diplomatic functions. Highly formal, but likely to be short.
-[X] Manifest Unison – your Aegis is as unique a piece of clothing as could ever be produced, and also grants you the highest chance of detecting individuals affected by Shiplord infiltration systems, if they exist. Clearly demonstrates human technological prowess in a way that the Contact Fleet literally cannot match, but will likely draw attention to Practice.
-[X] Envoy – a neutral designator, it grants you a broad mandate to discussion but is vague enough that nothing you say could really be considered binding. A private citizen, acting on the request of the President. It understates a great deal, but that could be wise.
-[X] Open Smile – against a backdrop of diplomatic smiles, yours will be the one that shines true. Although not all the races present are likely to understand the very human expression, you're confident in your ability to translate it across to them effectively. Well suited to informal or formal occasions.
 
[X] Plan Unison
-[X] Landing Dock – highest chance of 'immediate' reactions from your new guests, without the benefit of more extensive time to adjust to human norms. You know their reaction manual, they don't know yours. A bit of an underhanded move, but the docking areas are fully equipped for diplomatic functions. Highly formal, but likely to be short.
-[X] Manifest Unison – your Aegis is as unique a piece of clothing as could ever be produced, and also grants you the highest chance of detecting individuals affected by Shiplord infiltration systems, if they exist. Clearly demonstrates human technological prowess in a way that the Contact Fleet literally cannot match, but will likely draw attention to Practice.
-[X] Unison – the title you earned as a member of the Two Twenty Three, it's one that the aliens are very unlikely to understand. The general meanings of the word are good ones, but when the Contact Fleet actually works out what it's in reference to some interesting delayed reactions are likely.
-[X] Open Smile – against a backdrop of diplomatic smiles, yours will be the one that shines true. Although not all the races present are likely to understand the very human expression, you're confident in your ability to translate it across to them effectively. Well suited to informal or formal occasions.
 
Faraway-R said:
I guess it's this...
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You know, you can make your own votes or suggest modifications if you wish to. The voting community for this quest has slowed down quite a bit it seems since we left the CK2 stuff behind, so I'll be leaving this open for a while. I do hope that number of options isn't overwhelming.

Answers to the questions I've left this evening, some RL stuff came up.
 
Snowfire said:
Getting this right now before I infodump later; I'm using human terminology in the explanations because it's the easiest way to explain it. You may consider @uju32 correct in their assumption that the actual delivery of Amanda's manner will be routed through her understanding of the contact fleet's numerous social customs.

This won't be perfect, and it will certainly cause some confusion in regards to 'how the hell do they know all this stuff?' but it will be effective. As for 'human 101', a basic version is included in your Contact package. It's just that it takes time to absorb that sort of stuff - Sidra let Amanda cheat. Although you have, in an interlude, seen the Nileans use technology to mess with their processing speed.
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Also, regarding the "bared teeth" thing - these are going to be experienced cross-species diplomats. Even if it does mimic some body-language cue that one of the other species finds hostile, they should have had significant training in overcoming those instinctive reactions. After all, they're all part of polities with (more-or-less) peaceful contact with other species.
 
Lightwhispers said:
Also, regarding the "bared teeth" thing - these are going to be experienced cross-species diplomats. Even if it does mimic some body-language cue that one of the other species finds hostile, they should have had significant training in overcoming those instinctive reactions. After all, they're all part of polities with (more-or-less) peaceful contact with other species.
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And what would they make of that gesture? How would they know what it means? If you've got a description and/or years of experience, you can correctly interprete such a thing. But on a first contact?
 
MTB said:
And what would they make of that gesture? How would they know what it means? If you've got a description and/or years of experience, you can correctly interprete such a thing. But on a first contact?
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Try to remember if the Contact packet we sent them references anything like that, and if not, default to "unknown, wait for more data." Or, you know, ask.
 
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