Oh wait, I forgot to mention, did you try Trinity Universe? It broaches transhuman themes using the ST rules.
White Wolf's World of Darkness
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
For what it's worth, there are Autourgic(Knew full well what they were getting into and chose it), and Epimorph(Chose to become changed without knowing all the details) options for character origins.
Queshire
Wants a pink flamingo for their lawn.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Huh. Huuuuuuuh. Tempting... Mrr, shouldn't spend more money but still tempting...
EDIT: Backed it, starting to read the backers only thing, want to kick the person that wrote it in the balls and / or punch them in the boobs. Just once.
EDIT #2: Okay, after the first immediate impressions I'm hopeful.
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A while ago I had this crazy idea that characters who lost all their sanity meter would turn into beasts.
Kalzky
The Patron Saint Of Thowing Stuff In The Sun
- Location
- MI
As in like, mortals? Cause mortals can't lose their last dot of integrity.
No. I'm operating from the assumption that any characters who act like murderous psychopaths will steadily lose their sanity/karma meter until they eventually spontaneously become a beast rather than whatever normally happens in canon. They can keep playing at that point, but the intent to enforce the idea that beasts are amoral predators and not innocent victims unfairly persecuted by the evil heroes.
To be honest I don't like a lot of the canonical fluff or mechanics, especially not the sanity/karma meters. But I'm not going to complain here because I was already asked to move it to a different thread several times. Unless you're actually interested in hearing my critique of things.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
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- She/Her
Peep Witch Finders from Hunter: the Vigil. I think you'll find it cool and instructive.
The basic problem with Beast was the bloat afflicting nWoD. As someone said to me earlier in this thread, past a certain point new splats don't add much value. I don't think that's necessarily true, but it is a problem if you aren't planning everything many years in advance. Conceptually, Beast wasn't distinct enough from all the splats that came before it. It seemed like it was just a grab bag of ideas intended to cover the same ground as various fansplats like leviathans and dragons (which also have a similar distinction problem).
That Beast was written as predator apologia is just bad luck.
What White Wolf should have done was not to make up nWoD as they went along. They should have planned every splat they were going to produce in advance, and not deviated from that without a really really good reason. Instead, the second edition ended up a conceptual mess because they tried to combine all the stuff they previously did, then intended to add even more as they went along. All without doing anything to simplify their workload like using universal rules with point buy to adjudicate things.
I don't understand what you're implying here. Beasts really are self-serving scumbags. There's no debate here. The lead writer was a pedophile.
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- Denmark
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- She/Her
I don't really think that's the core problem with Beast, I also don't really think @mothematics was saying anything about Beast not being bad. In fact, I don't really understand how you got that from what she said.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm saying that if you're looking for mechanics of moral degeneration/karma/whatever then Witch Finders is good to look at. Beast is uniformly gross and disappointing, I wasn't commenting on it.
My mistake. I got the wrong idea from you quoting my entire post. Thank you for offering.
I oppose the design/implementation of nWoD's morality/sanity/whatever mechanics in basic principle. It's rather complicated to explain so I won't right here unless you want to hear it.
You don't think the bloat, insufficiently distinct concepts, and general lack of long-term planning is a problem? How so?
Talking about beast I have another idea for my Slayer splat. You know how the Doom Slayer strike the fear of God into demons by his mere presence?
Well it's the same with the beasts and my splat here.
Most beast would retreat back into they lair at mere hint of a Slayer presence and risk starving them self while others will throw at the Slayer even if they have no chance of winning.
The existence of the Slayers have even give rise to a cult of beasts who worship them as sort of avenging angels who has come to judge them for they crimes.
Well it's the same with the beasts and my splat here.
Most beast would retreat back into they lair at mere hint of a Slayer presence and risk starving them self while others will throw at the Slayer even if they have no chance of winning.
The existence of the Slayers have even give rise to a cult of beasts who worship them as sort of avenging angels who has come to judge them for they crimes.
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Okay? I loved Doom's ridiculous violence, but I'm not a fan of Beast and the tones don't seem to sync up.
Also, how common are beasts supposed to be, anyway? The way the WoD books are written, it seems like cities are teeming with legions of vampires, witches, werewolves, etc like Sunnydale on steroids.
The population dynamics never made sense to me. They're way too high to keep anything secret without positing some cosmic force keeping them so and that makes attempts at staying secret seem absurd.
I just had this crazy idea that the population dynamics might make more sense if human civilization is spread across interstellar space. Does it?
Also, how common are beasts supposed to be, anyway? The way the WoD books are written, it seems like cities are teeming with legions of vampires, witches, werewolves, etc like Sunnydale on steroids.
The population dynamics never made sense to me. They're way too high to keep anything secret without positing some cosmic force keeping them so and that makes attempts at staying secret seem absurd.
I just had this crazy idea that the population dynamics might make more sense if human civilization is spread across interstellar space. Does it?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
It's not actually secret I think. It's just that a massive supermajority of the population practices willful ignorance because the supernatural is farking terrifying. Everybody's had some encounter they try to forget.
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So Sunnydale on steroids. Buffy is partly a campy comedy. WoD is super serious all the time. The tone doesn't match.
It starts getting silly and unbelievable
Nevermind. I'm leaving. This discussion is aggravating my depression
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
I don't know about that, it always seemed to me that even most big cities only had a couple dozen vampires at most (which is why they all knew each other at least a little).
Shunned by the Moon has an Azlu who became a scientist by getting high as a kite off a hippie she ate once and thinking imaginatively for the first time. Its parent game has, in the Iron Master section, one trying to apologize to the Storm Lords after she confused a guy Claimed by a Leech spirit for a vampire. Earlier, in Mummy: the Curse, the quotation for "mortal antagonists" when we come to hunters is, verbatim, "DIE THING OF EVIL!" - Yancy Rand Jr.,gunsmith (last words).
Bolded part assumes facts not in evidence.
EDIT: Also, quick aside; what's "comedic" about it? Literally everyone is so scared by the monsters the only thing they can think of is pretending they are not there. It also makes the monsters a lot more tense when keeping the secret of their existence intact, because they know that if people finally get fed up with the monsters in their midst and realize what their weaknesses are, they won't have to convince anyone else to believe them - only to stand up for themselves. Hence, why hunters are so diverse; literally everyone already knows the truth, the hunters just realize they can't just blithely accept it any more.
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I left this fandom years and years ago because my every interaction was a flame war. I decided to come back in the middle of another flame war in a different fandom. Being here causes me nothing but mental anguish. Good bye
But you last post says your leaving but then you came back. What's your deal anyway?
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UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
You came in here aggroing everyone, and you can't take the wound. What do you expect, seriously?
How? I mean in my write up the Slayer is teaching the monsters the meaning of fear just like he's doing in his home series. I don't see a disconnect here.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, as a general rule in nWoD there's no massive top-down conspiracy enforcing a party line and what massive conspiracies there are a. still tend to be pretty limited in the slice of the world they can actually engage with (since they're multinational corporations or shadowy government agencies or something that's neither but kinda wearing the skin of both vs Vampire World Government) and b. dealing with deliberately watered down versions of the other splats that they can meaningfully engage with instead of, like, "the Changeling lunges across a threshold and pops into the Hedge and is five states away by dawn"/"the werewolf pack goes furry warframe on your ass"/"the Mage makes your liver explode last Saturday" (moderate exaggerations for illustration, but on the whole I'm pretty positive of the idea of rewriting versions of the other PC lines that are explicitly meant to function as antagonists, threats, and uneasy allies at best for Hunters, but that's sort of a tangent).
Everything is, generally speaking, pretty fragmented afaik. The highest authority in Vampire Land is the Prince fr'ex, the ruler of a single city (sometimes not even that), and they don't have the resources or power or incentives, necessarily, to run a perfect clean up operation. Mages are concerned about not being seen but that's because Paradox is a bitch and sometimes it brings brainspiders, and it's notable that this barrier is pretty malleable and movable depending on how motivated (or moral) you are. Changeling Courts care more about hiding from their Keepers than about hiding from humans. And so on.
I like it tbh. It's less Sunnydale on steroids imo and more...in nWoD there's a whole different world waiting there in the shadows and the depths and the lonely corners of the Earth. It's there and once you see it it sees you and it's so, so easy for even normal people to fall through the cracks. To be lost in it and never find your way back. It's less Enforced Dogma and more, like you said, many people, maybe even most people, have seen something that doesn't quite make sense. That they've uneasily dismissed and tried to forget but still think about sometimes, when they're alone in the dark.
And I love that mood really.