Would knowing or trying to discern someone's supernatural merits be 'Prime'? I mean, that seems like the most obvious place for it to be, though I suppose it could also be "Not possible" and yet it seems like something that you could know, at least for another Mage, even if it breaks down trying to figure out what the fuck *that* means when it happens after you scan a vampire. (It's something horrible, probably, like blood being super-addictive or the ability to hurt more people worse.)
 
Would knowing or trying to discern someone's supernatural merits be 'Prime'? I mean, that seems like the most obvious place for it to be, though I suppose it could also be "Not possible" and yet it seems like something that you could know, at least for another Mage, even if it breaks down trying to figure out what the fuck *that* means when it happens after you scan a vampire. (It's something horrible, probably, like blood being super-addictive or the ability to hurt more people worse.)
I would rule that the arcana would vary based on the merit. Aura reading would be determined with Mind, whereas Electrokinesis would be Forces, and so on.
 
You see my issue now?

Sorcery is a lovely idea, and I would love to have more on it (heck you could replace literally all of M20 with fucking sorcerers and it would still be a better book about Mages), but this doesn't change the fact that sorcery has been consistently treated like shit or given useless "rules" that could barely call themselves rules if the Most High himself came down to declare them as the pinnacle of mechanical acumen.

But yes, some Paths are certainly worse than others (Enchanting and Herbalism, I'm looking at you. :anger:)
Hunters Hunted 2 actually has concise rules for Sorcery that are generally not mechanically sucking?
Kind of sad it ended up being most playable book for Sorcerers?
(Inquisition also might actually works near as intended)

Challenge Accepted!
You're tempting me towards making an Enchanter Quest :p
Enchanting in Sorcerer Classic is actually darn useful.
Lots of +2 Amulets for Attributes & Abilities?
Abilities (oWoD)
Stack of Amulets for Secondaries can make you expert in lots of esoteric stuff?
Better still if they all have synergy together. . .
. . . like wearing your Kindred Lore/Clan Knowledge/Camarilla Lore/Anarch Lore/Sabbat Lore Amulets at once if researching vampires!
For extra fun go read my background candles on page 441 :rofl:
I'd been inspired by ManusDomine.
Going to run a Sorcerer crafting adventure!
Making a shot for a May quest.
Anything that I need to keep in mind?
 
Would knowing or trying to discern someone's supernatural merits be 'Prime'? I mean, that seems like the most obvious place for it to be, though I suppose it could also be "Not possible" and yet it seems like something that you could know, at least for another Mage, even if it breaks down trying to figure out what the fuck *that* means when it happens after you scan a vampire. (It's something horrible, probably, like blood being super-addictive or the ability to hurt more people worse.)
It's kind of hard to say, because what the supernatural merits actually represent in-universe can actually be rather varied. Minor powers in particular can run a wide gamut, so you actually have to decide if the girl who can move things with her mind has some sort of strange mutation in her brain, a supernatural lineage of some kind (and what kind), has practiced some kind of (non-Awakened) magic, or any other possibility you can think of.

Personally, when I use Psychics, Second Sights sorcerers and all the various sources for supernaturally talented humans, I use this as a rule of thumb: Prim can always tell you that your target has some kind of supernatural capability, and can give you a vague idea of its strenght (dot rating) and nature. Apart from that, other Arcana (mostly Life, Death, Spirit and Mind) can give you a more detailed look at the merit.
 
It's kind of hard to say, because what the supernatural merits actually represent in-universe can actually be rather varied. Minor powers in particular can run a wide gamut, so you actually have to decide if the girl who can move things with her mind has some sort of strange mutation in her brain, a supernatural lineage of some kind (and what kind), has practiced some kind of (non-Awakened) magic, or any other possibility you can think of.

Personally, when I use Psychics, Second Sights sorcerers and all the various sources for supernaturally talented humans, I use this as a rule of thumb: Prim can always tell you that your target has some kind of supernatural capability, and can give you a vague idea of its strenght (dot rating) and nature. Apart from that, other Arcana (mostly Life, Death, Spirit and Mind) can give you a more detailed look at the merit.

And what if it is a Mage merit?
 
And what if it is a Mage merit?
I actually find that Mage-specific merits tend towards being "things you own", knowledges and social status stuff, and few are magically significant things that are added to the characters, probably because Awakened magic already covers so many things.
Still, even with things like some of the Banisher merits, I would rely on Prime, unless you think something fits better with the merits theme.
"Graduate from Otranto" for example is definately something that a Fate aligned scan would pick up.
 
Oh! Really neat idea I just had. Could be 1920s, but honestly it could even be modern. Imagine a Legacy or Cabal/group of high-finance, rich businessmen or Wall-Street people who have a specific theme and a specific goal. They muck around in the Temenos, the 'Collective Unconscious' of humanity for absolutely petty, hubristic bullshit. Make the people of New Orleans (or some smaller town, since smaller targets are easier ones) prefer the brand of butter their grocery store sells, and rake in the profits. Increase consumer confidence among certain sectors (stockbrokers) even as the bottom falls out of a corrupt business, giving just enough time to get out while the getting's good.

So on and so forth. This...maybe make it a Legacy of some kind? But it's 'the worst' in the sense that they're exactly the sort of people who shouldn't have magic. Their ambitions and schemes aren't even grand. They're not trying to make Universal Capitalist Utopia or something (though such a goal is also impossible to achieve in the Temenos, admittedly), they're just trying to make a quick buck or three or million, even though the material wealth of the Fallen World is a bunch of illusory bullshit. I think they wouldn't *just* be Seers, but that the kinds of schemes they do would be stuff that wouldn't strike Seers as anything but reasonable. Why not beat the competition not by convincing people that yours is the best Auto-Repair shop, but by changing your local town so that everyone always defaults towards yours? Or whatever else.

I'm not sure what their Attainments would be, but it seems a reasonable enough plot idea. And then a Mage/PC would come across them and be like, "...what are you doing?"

And they'd be like, "Hookers and blow, cause greed is good and who cares about hubris?!"
 
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The first question on attainments is secondary Arcanum. They're rather clearly mind, but the other one I could see working as Fate for even more dickery with making people more likely to buy from them and reading the market, Matter for more direct cheating and messing with products, or maybe Time for similar reasons to Fate.

Their primary would probably be a mix of those Dream guys from Legacies the Ancient and various tricks for taking advantage of customers or influencing people. Like their final ability is just a really long duration suggestion to go buy their products in favor of everyone else's.
 
The first question on attainments is secondary Arcanum. They're rather clearly mind, but the other one I could see working as Fate for even more dickery with making people more likely to buy from them and reading the market, Matter for more direct cheating and messing with products, or maybe Time for similar reasons to Fate.

Their primary would probably be a mix of those Dream guys from Legacies the Ancient and various tricks for taking advantage of customers or influencing people. Like their final ability is just a really long duration suggestion to go buy their products in favor of everyone else's.

Well, how influencing people from the Astral Realm works is tricky, and is as much a statement on the Legacy as anything. Like, it's not easy and it's not quick, and so they're going through a lot of effort to cheat. You go to the Temeros, which is the collective unconscious of humanity. You can find Abraham Lincoln battling against the Realm of Feudalism The Idea (Which has gotten some Dark Enlightenment cred, and is related to him to the extent that people imagine Abraham Lincoln in opposition to slavery and connect it to feudalism), and then journey from there to people's imaginings of Richmond Virginia (Because slavery=Confederacy in people's minds), and so on and so forth.

Within the proper realm, let's say Richmond, you can then influence what goes on, and as below, so above, mentally, with it being harder the more people are affected, and the more central the change is. You have to use all of your powers and cunning to do so, it's an adventure, not (just) a roll. So, for instance. Let's say you want to make it so that yours is the only...I dunno, Italian Restaurant that anyone goes to in this medium sized town. So in the Temeros you go around poisoning the food of the other Pizza shops, and breaking their water manes, and otherwise fucking stuff in the Dream-Pizza up.

It doesn't cause it to happen in real life, but what it does do, if you do it enough, is make the Realm say, "Oh, hey, that pizza place sucks, I swear I got food poisoning once, don't you remember?" And then in the real world, people unconsciously find themselves ignoring the coupons to go to those restaurants, or driving ten miles out of the way just to avoid going there.

I mean, obviously you can do more significant things, but the more important the belief is to someone (and it can't change matters of obvious fact, like making people believe water will burn you alive), the less likely you are to sway someone.

Luckily, since the Legacy's point is that it does petty shit for petty reasons, it's a Mind-Fate sort of Legacy that goes into a Realm and does petty shit. If they actually wanted to be a Legacy of, I dunno, revolutionaries remaking the world via the collective unconscious, that would be actually-hard. Rather than just Mage-hard.

Instead, all they need to do is journey into the Astral (which does take work, but...), find the right people, ruin or promote the right ideas/products, and then get out of there to reap the rewards as suddenly everyone goes to their Pizza Joint.

Note: if your pizza really, really sucks and people get food poisoning, that'll, you know, start counteracting all of the work you've done to cheat your way into financial dominance. It effects attitudes, not reality: nothing can make you a good pizza chef. Except extensive mob ties or playing that Quest that neither I nor @MJ12 Commando will ever make about being a pizza corporation.
 
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I have to forcibly restrain myself from describing Supernal creatures as "angels from Neon Genesis Evangelion", every damn time I do Mage.

Manus: "Okay so it's like godzilla."
Manus: "Except with giant shoulders and a weird skull-beak"
Manus: "And toilet paper arms"
Player: "what the fuck are you on about"

I know this is four pages back, but this is the song I will always use to describe achieving Ascension. :V

I might be four pages and like eight days late but: Seers (Threat Null?) :V
 
Manus: "Okay so it's like godzilla."
Manus: "Except with giant shoulders and a weird skull-beak"
Manus: "And toilet paper arms"
Player: "what the fuck are you on about"
No the problem is that my players have watched Evangelion.

And Zeruel doesn't have a beak u fuck, Zeruel is just a skull.

arnt u a real fan tenfoldshields?

(Besides, I prefer Rebuild's angel design where Zeruel is awesome and terrifying and doesn't wear an orange jumpsuit. :V)
 
Now I'm just wistful for that one Worm crossover where a dying Ramiel welded itself to the ruins of Taylor's mind and the story did all sorts of shit with what AT Fields can do when wielded by a sapient being. Also, the main character being literally a gestalt of the two characters and thus having... worrisome abnormalities in their understanding of the world. Also also, a really cool depiction of the Ramiel fight in Evangelion, from Ramiel's viewpoint. Damn that was good. :(
 
Now I'm just wistful for that one Worm crossover where a dying Ramiel welded itself to the ruins of Taylor's mind and the story did all sorts of shit with what AT Fields can do when wielded by a sapient being. Also, the main character being literally a gestalt of the two characters and thus having... worrisome abnormalities in their understanding of the world. Also also, a really cool depiction of the Ramiel fight in Evangelion, from Ramiel's viewpoint. Damn that was good. :(

You had me at Ramiel.

Rami-Chan is the true Best Girl. :V
 
NERV is best Hunter Compact.
You poor VALKYRIE bastards lack Evangelions or even Jet Alone.

a): NERV is much more Cheiron than Valkyrie.
b): Based on what we see of the Evangelion units, I think it's best for the World of Darkness that there are no Evangelion Units in it (though I have been working on Engel Units for Cheiron Corp, which are like Evangelions but less insane).
 
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