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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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tq343 said:
Well, for that, it is pretty similar to Vampires -- they tend to congregate in places of power. The difference is what Mages consider to be places of power; political power is important -- The Broken Diamond actually discusses it, there are a large number of Order Mages in DC in order to keep the Vamps and Seers out of politics as much as possible -- but in general what they consider to be a place of power is based on their favored Arcana. Acanthus, wielding Time and Fate, will congregate where there are chances being taken and great things hang in the balance, or places loaded with history; you'd be likely to find a disproportionate number of them in Las Vegas, Wall Street, Rome, and near historic ruins (especially ancient, possibly-Atlantean ones). Mastigos, wielding Mind and Space, are likely to be found at great cross-roads, or where great ideas are created and spread; Chicago, New York, Hollywood, famous universities, political centers, and so on. Same idea goes for Moros (Matter and Death), Obrimos (Forces and Prime), and Thrysus (Life and Spirit). If you want to know where Mages are, think of their thematics and themes, and where people focused on studying or using things close to those themes would go. As for wilderness vs. cities, I don't think there's a particular preference; the only one I can think of is that you are more likely to find Mastigos in cities (which are natural crossroads) and to find Thrysus in wilderness (where the presence of man and his works don't strengthen the Gauntlet that separates the spirit world from the physical one).

Don't forget the iron. Modern cities, building more specifically, are built on skeletons of steel, with rebar-reinforced concrete for muscle.
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Alright, can you give an example of Moros, Obrimos and Thrysus cities? Mastigos fits for Kansas City, the rail hub that used to be the last-stop on a cattle's drive towards death, which was right along several important rivers and which is the City of a Thousand Trods, Changelings-wise, which might have a mortal impact or might not, and I suppose any Questers reading here now have OOC knowledge of at least one possible focus.
 
The Laurent said:
Alright, can you give an example of Moros, Obrimos and Thrysus cities? Mastigos fits for Kansas City, the rail hub that used to be the last-stop on a cattle's drive towards death, which was right along several important rivers and which is the City of a Thousand Trods, Changelings-wise, which might have a mortal impact or might not, and I suppose any Questers reading here now have OOC knowledge of at least one possible focus.
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You know, this OOC knowledge might have been worth something if I actually knew enough about Mage/Changeling to make sense of what you just said. It might as well be gibberish for all the sense it makes to me.
 
The Laurent said:
Alright, can you give an example of Moros, Obrimos and Thrysus cities? Mastigos fits for Kansas City, the rail hub that used to be the last-stop on a cattle's drive towards death, which was right along several important rivers and which is the City of a Thousand Trods, Changelings-wise, which might have a mortal impact or might not, and I suppose any Questers reading here now have OOC knowledge of at least one possible focus.
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For Moros, the city that pops most readily to mind is Detroit. Once, a great manufacturing hub, a wealthy and powerful city, now sinking into decay and blight. Places that are being (preferably slowly) destroyed would be the best place for a Moros wishing to study Death, as well as places where great disasters have swepped through and changed everything, like New Orleans. Places where there were great changes or great battles. Cairo, and many other places in the Middle East, thanks to the Arab Spring overturning a number of governments; London, for the echos of those who died in its many great fires, or Stalingrad, because Stalingrad. Somewhere near the trenches of World War I, or a concentration camp (though that might be too grim).

I can't think of any particularly good cities for Thrysus, but anywhere there is a leyline intersection -- and by extension a lot of Essence -- will likely draw them, because spirits gather there. Again, though, they'd probably be a little bit more inclined to live outside cities, where the Gauntlet is weaker. I'm afraid I can't think of anything at all for Obrimos, barring places where great and powerful natural disasters often occur; California, Tornado Alley, near volcanos, that sort of thing. Maybe others have a better idea than I do.
 
tq343 said:
I'm afraid I can't think of anything at all for Obrimos, barring places where great and powerful natural disasters often occur; California, Tornado Alley, near volcanos, that sort of thing. Maybe others have a better idea than I do.
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The Ring of Fire springs to mind. The 'rim' of the Pacific Ocean gets a hugely disproportionate amount of the planet's tectonic activity - earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. Seattle, Portland, Anchorage, Vancouver, Japan and Southeast Asia, San Francisco and Los Angeles, Western Mexico, Central America, Peru, Chile. Cities with mountains nearby might also be interesting to them - mountains shape weather by their mere presence and are also associated with asceticism and spiritual/religious experience. Likewise, 'hot' deserts are associated with heat, sunlight, and also with hermitage, so desert cities might be of interest to them.

...huh. There's probably a lot of Obrimos hanging around L.A., and probably in northern India at that.
 
Hmm, what would owod vampire/werewolf/mage(/technocracy)/changeling splats look like in a much less modern setting, like American Civil War or French Revolution.

Does the system still work when you cut to a non-urban fantasy/urban horror setting?
 
Foyada said:
Hmm, what would owod vampire/werewolf/mage(/technocracy)/changeling splats look like in a much less modern setting, like American Civil War or French Revolution.

Does the system still work when you cut to a non-urban fantasy/urban horror setting?
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in the new world of darkness it works mostly unchained , you only have some social changes for the vampires and maybe for the changeling . Some subgroups are not yet in there and others are in. That is helped as the combat system is better at knives respective sabers in a alleyway then in regards to dealing with uzis.

In the old world it is only in regards to mage and the technocrats that change a bit as more stuff is allowed on both sides with the mages coming out slightly on top.
 
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Foyada said:
Hmm, what would owod vampire/werewolf/mage(/technocracy)/changeling splats look like in a much less modern setting, like American Civil War or French Revolution.

Does the system still work when you cut to a non-urban fantasy/urban horror setting?
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There are several OWoD historical lines. The Dark Ages lines of Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Inquisitor and Fae, the Renaissance era of Mage: the Sorcerer's Line, Victorian Vampire (with a Victorian Mage in the pipe line), Wild West Werewolf and Wraith: the Great War. Not to mention talk scattered around various OWoD books about what they'd look like during specific eras.

So yes, it works just as well.
 
The Laurent said:
Now, knowing that Mages aren't necessarily bound by population-murder-statistics like Vampires are, sorta like Changelings in that population does matter all that much.

But, like, are there any guidelines for how many Mages there are out there?
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Adding on to what others have said, Imperial Mysteries says that there's roughly 100 Archmages at any given time. I doubt this info will be of use but it's still interesting.
 
Thanks, and yeah, there's a lot you can do with historical settings. I got quite a few ideas last-night for a Changeling setting/mood set in the 50s. I mean, in my own opinion, you shouldn't ignore how much history acts on the supernatural splats, as much as them acting on history if not more. A classist, racist Changeling sent through their Durance isn't going to step out and suddenly see the error of their ways as far as not liking poor black people, and while a female Ogre's ability to rip arms off and other such aspects makes sexism a little more 'unsteady' in the Changeling world...well, look at the real world. Stereotypes about women and math and education persist baldly in the face of the feminization of higher education to an extent that there should be a change. So I could entirely imagine a Freehold considering Ogre women coarse, unwomanly, wanton, etc, etc. And that's not even getting into the homophobia and transphobia that would no doubt be present. If you wanted it to be, you could always just wave the 'well, Changeling's have been through shit so they naturally set all that aside' wand.

Not to mention the Beats, the growing bar scene in my cities, the strengthening and formation of all sorts of groups and institutions, the Broken-Cage Spring Entitlement just getting its start, the rise of suburbs threatening to tug Changelings apart even as the rise of cities earlier had led to a stream of country-fried Changelings entering the big city or being taken there more often.
 
So, I've practically pinned most I how I want the Consilium and Cabals to look like, but now I arrive at one of my weak points: naming stuff. I suck that, so here's what I've got so far:

Hierarch: The City Official, Silver Ladder, either Obrimos or Acanthus, influential the NYC government, works to help is cabal's geomantic projects as well as his order's interests in the city's secret societies.
Concillors:
  • The Urban Shaman, Thyrsus, Free Council, one of the most personally powerful Councillors, strongly involved in the Shadow, where they looks for insight.
  • The Crime Boss, Moros, Adamantine Arrow, the most militant Councillor towards Apostates or Seers, often conflicts with other mages and supernaturals involved in organised crime
  • The Aloof Master, Mastigos, Mysterium, personally powerful, is more interested in the exploration of the Mysteries than the politicking,
  • The Hard Woman, Obrimos, GotV Epopt, heavily inspired by Amanda Waller and "Control" from Person of Interest. Concerned with keeping the Veil safe from the mess that is New York City and it's supernatural denizens, as well as combating the Seers influnce in the city
  • The Peace Advocate, Acanthus, Silver Ladder, tends to argue non confrontational solutions to issues, and is the one who most often thinks about the Sleepers.
As for Cabals, I think I've narrowed it down enough, and like the NPCs, are in need of a (better) name;
  • The Watchmen of House Morgan: The Mages most interested in the economic market, as well as the diplomatic community around the UN building, as well as combating supernatural influences they don't approve of, especially from Seers, the Ministries of Mammon and the Hegemonic being their most frequent opponents. Mainly Guardian and Silver Ladder. The Hard Woman leads this cabal.
  • The Lodge of Echoes: Almost totally Guardian cabal (perhaps has an Arrow or two) dedicated to the New York Labyrinth, as well as leveraging it's connections to protect the often strained Veil of the city.
  • The Architects: Silver Ladder and Mysterium mages interested in geomancy, occult designs and resonance manipulations, with an eye towards influencing Sleepers, creating environments that if not Awakening, can perhaps open people to sleepwalking. The Hierarch leads this Cabal.
  • The Challengers of the Unknown: Mysterium with one or two Libertines, this Cabal of urban explorers sometimes steps on the toes of other cabals and supernatural organisations in their search for the secret places of power of New York. The Aloof Master is the distant leader of this group.
  • The Bringers of Truth: Silver Ladder cabal heavily invested in the order's Cryptopoly, which they often use to gain favors and levarge on othe Pentacle cabals, as well as Apostates. The Peace Advocate resides here.
  • The Seekers of the Five-fold Soul: Free Council and mistagogues mages heavily involved with the politcs and ecology of the Shadow. In particular, they seek to reconcile the struggle of the City spirits of the five boroughs into a union into a single proper spirit of New York. The Urban Shaman is a member.
  • The Red Throne: mostly Adamantine Arrow, as well as when necessary the "muscle" for the Consilium as a whole, this Cabals fights Seers, possessing spirits and the other gribblies of the world of darkness on the street level. The Crime Boss is the leader of this cabal.
Comments?
 
The Laurent said:
Thanks, and yeah, there's a lot you can do with historical settings. I got quite a few ideas last-night for a Changeling setting/mood set in the 50s. I mean, in my own opinion, you shouldn't ignore how much history acts on the supernatural splats, as much as them acting on history if not more. A classist, racist Changeling sent through their Durance isn't going to step out and suddenly see the error of their ways as far as not liking poor black people, and while a female Ogre's ability to rip arms off and other such aspects makes sexism a little more 'unsteady' in the Changeling world...well, look at the real world. Stereotypes about women and math and education persist baldly in the face of the feminization of higher education to an extent that there should be a change. So I could entirely imagine a Freehold considering Ogre women coarse, unwomanly, wanton, etc, etc. And that's not even getting into the homophobia and transphobia that would no doubt be present. If you wanted it to be, you could always just wave the 'well, Changeling's have been through shit so they naturally set all that aside' wand.

Not to mention the Beats, the growing bar scene in my cities, the strengthening and formation of all sorts of groups and institutions, the Broken-Cage Spring Entitlement just getting its start, the rise of suburbs threatening to tug Changelings apart even as the rise of cities earlier had led to a stream of country-fried Changelings entering the big city or being taken there more often.
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And well of course there are the new borders drawn, after all that person over there is a beast, not much better then a negro while , well I am a Fairest and so clearly more important then them as I am better.
 
Scia said:
And well of course there are the new borders drawn, after all that person over there is a beast, not much better then a negro while , well I am a Fairest and so clearly more important then them as I am better.
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Indeed, new sorts of racism as well. I could also imagine hypocrisy. "I'm a Beast...but since I'm white it's more like I'm the noble lion or hawk or Eagle who is more American than you." Oh, and anti-communist fears could be translated into fears of certain internal elements that are "conspiring" with the Fae. "Are you a hidden loyalist!? No? Then why are you listening to strange Fae music that leads people astray! Why are you believing collectivist lies that will only destroy the Freehold?!"
 
NonSequtur said:
Wouldn't Fuck You, Got Mine capitalism be very in-line with the True Fae? Communism might resonate more with the Changelings.
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Some of them, yes. Hence the conflict. There would be Changelings who felt the call towards Communism, while others believed that things like Gods, Guns (shoot the fucking Fae in the head) and Religion are the things that make America strong, along with capitalism (and Goblin Markets are very capitalistic and plenty of Changelings use them) and thus they should be promoted.

In other words, conflict.

Which is to say, story. Characters taking sides. Arguments. Ideological, diplomatic, and representational fist-fights. The things that make a fun setting, I think.
 
BlueBiscuit said:
So, I've practically pinned most I how I want the Consilium and Cabals to look like, but now I arrive at one of my weak points: naming stuff. I suck that, so here's what I've got so far:

Hierarch: The City Official, Silver Ladder, either Obrimos or Acanthus, influential the NYC government, works to help is cabal's geomantic projects as well as his order's interests in the city's secret societies.
Concillors:
  • The Urban Shaman, Thyrsus, Free Council, one of the most personally powerful Councillors, strongly involved in the Shadow, where they looks for insight.
  • The Crime Boss, Moros, Adamantine Arrow, the most militant Councillor towards Apostates or Seers, often conflicts with other mages and supernaturals involved in organised crime
  • The Aloof Master, Mastigos, Mysterium, personally powerful, is more interested in the exploration of the Mysteries than the politicking,
  • The Hard Woman, Obrimos, GotV Epopt, heavily inspired by Amanda Waller and "Control" from Person of Interest. Concerned with keeping the Veil safe from the mess that is New York City and it's supernatural denizens, as well as combating the Seers influnce in the city
  • The Peace Advocate, Acanthus, Silver Ladder, tends to argue non confrontational solutions to issues, and is the one who most often thinks about the Sleepers.
As for Cabals, I think I've narrowed it down enough, and like the NPCs, are in need of a (better) name;
  • The Watchmen of House Morgan: The Mages most interested in the economic market, as well as the diplomatic community around the UN building, as well as combating supernatural influences they don't approve of, especially from Seers, the Ministries of Mammon and the Hegemonic being their most frequent opponents. Mainly Guardian and Silver Ladder. The Hard Woman leads this cabal.
  • The Lodge of Echoes: Almost totally Guardian cabal (perhaps has an Arrow or two) dedicated to the New York Labyrinth, as well as leveraging it's connections to protect the often strained Veil of the city.
  • The Architects: Silver Ladder and Mysterium mages interested in geomancy, occult designs and resonance manipulations, with an eye towards influencing Sleepers, creating environments that if not Awakening, can perhaps open people to sleepwalking. The Hierarch leads this Cabal.
  • The Challengers of the Unknown: Mysterium with one or two Libertines, this Cabal of urban explorers sometimes steps on the toes of other cabals and supernatural organisations in their search for the secret places of power of New York. The Aloof Master is the distant leader of this group.
  • The Bringers of Truth: Silver Ladder cabal heavily invested in the order's Cryptopoly, which they often use to gain favors and levarge on othe Pentacle cabals, as well as Apostates. The Peace Advocate resides here.
  • The Seekers of the Five-fold Soul: Free Council and mistagogues mages heavily involved with the politcs and ecology of the Shadow. In particular, they seek to reconcile the struggle of the City spirits of the five boroughs into a union into a single proper spirit of New York. The Urban Shaman is a member.
  • The Red Throne: mostly Adamantine Arrow, as well as when necessary the "muscle" for the Consilium as a whole, this Cabals fights Seers, possessing spirits and the other gribblies of the world of darkness on the street level. The Crime Boss is the leader of this cabal.
Comments?
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I think it's really good, and you have a rather fun variety that seems to fit New York well.
 
I think I may alter the Bringers of Truth, from just Cryptopoly focused, to generally interested in interacting with the Apostate organisation and cults peacefully, with an eye towards recruitment. The membership would also be more of a mix of Silver Ladder and Free Council.
 
I love Geist, it's my favorite NWoD line. I just wish they had given us more books in the line besides the Quickstart, some mini-adventure modules, one adventure module and a NWoD tie-in book. Promethean: the Created got four books outside the Core book, the Quickstart, adventure books and the like but all Geist got was a single World of Darkness book on Ghosts and the Underworld. A damn shame.
 
So has anyone read the Beast playtest leak? The leak is basically the complete book as far as I can tell, except that some of the rules text references vampires rather than Beasts.

As far as I can tell it's a decent concept with some serious failures in execution. Some of their powers are rather overpowered compared to the other splats and they lack a clear thing to do. Also, their main antagonist splat is rather poorly executed. The first time they're introduced, it goes on for several pages about how pathetic they are, then it says that they are essentially anti-feminist gamergaters. The thing is, the heroes don't really seem evil. They seem more like they developed paranoid schizophrenia due to their contact with the Beast, which kind of makes all the pathetic talk kind of mean sounding. Also, a significant portion of Beasts have done things that are bad enough for to make the Heroes seem reasonable in their killing of Beasts.
 
Wow. I mean, that sounds pretty bad. Anyone else able to back him up on some of this stuff, since I'm not sure whether I'll be able to get around to reading it.

Also, the person is suggesting dropping the Manifestations all-together because he doesn't think they were that well playtested. We'll see. Thoughts on that?
 
Omicron said:
...the what now?
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Beast the Primordial is the new 2e "Gameline that we make that's niche and gets a few books but isn't that important" I think. It involves these Beasts, born of...something or other, who by their very nature create their own "Heroes" obsessed with killing them.

Like if Grendel, by his nature, drove people crazy enough to become Beowulf just to stop him.

Also, according to some-guy-on-the-internet complaints, Beast's unbalanced and the Heroes aren't actually a threat, nor are any of the other splats. I should probably read it, though I'm not supposed to.
 
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I've dimly, distantly followed Beast, trying to decide whether or not I should be getting interested in it. I'm aware of the premise, though. My question was mostly "wait, another leak?"
 
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