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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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EarthScorpion said:
Honestly, I'd just say "it's part of the mother's body, therefore it does the whole 'reset on waking' thing for the vampire mother, so she's just going to be eternally pregnant with an eternal unaging ungrowing foetus".

So, you know, some body horror there, but nothing overtly grotesque.
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I'd at least consider ruling that the foetus is a seperate entity, so rather than being turned as part of the mother it develops as per normal- But, due to mommy dearest being a vampire, the baby basically gets vitae pumped through it through its entire development and is born as a severely mutated revenant.
 
Soul enters the body on first breath. Thus there's nothing to corrupt is my take. Makes a bit of a too strong statement though.


I actually think that child vampires are kind of a common element of the genre and should be covered at some level if the designers think they can do it right. If they don't, no shame in avoiding it though
 
Mutton said:
Soul enters the body on first breath. Thus there's nothing to corrupt is my take. Makes a bit of a too strong statement though.
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Revenant ghouls are a thing in the oWoD though; If you breed ghouls, there's a chance that the resulting offspring will be born a ghoul that produces its own vitae in its blood stream.

Since I'd assume this is because the fetus is exposed to enough vitae in the womb to adapt (or be corrupted, depending on your perspective), it only makes sense that a human fetus within a newly turned vampire would adapt similarly (Assuming one doesn't rule that the fetus is part of the mother, and not a separate organism).
 
Mutton said:
I actually think that child vampires are kind of a common element of the genre and should be covered at some level if the designers think they can do it right. If they don't, no shame in avoiding it though
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Oh, there's totally a place for child vampires.

They're just going to be fucked up. Because all vampires are fucked up, and vampires are metaphorical drug-pushing rapists which means that a drug-pushing rapist child is even more fucked up. But even if you ignore the themes, vampires are fucked up people and children are less mature and less good at staying calm, which means oh shit now you have a frenzying six year old popping Protean 3 and trying to claw you to shreds and drink your blood.

(A child Larva is... arguably not any more fucked up than a normal Larva and honestly against a pack of them the PCs will just be glad that one of them has fewer HLs. :p)

Vindictus said:
Revenant ghouls are a thing in the oWoD though; If you breed ghouls, there's a chance that the resulting offspring will be born a ghoul that produces its own vitae in its blood stream.

Since I'd assume this is because the fetus is exposed to enough vitae in the womb to adapt (or be corrupted, depending on your perspective), it only makes sense that a human fetus within a newly turned vampire would adapt similarly (Assuming one doesn't rule that the fetus is part of the mother, and not a separate organism).
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No, actually.

What I'd argue is that if you don't count it as just another one of the mother's organs, it probably just dies when she dies. And the dead biological matter will leave her body at some point. The embracer isn't spending WP to embrace two people, after all.

Plus, then you get into the grounds of people making revenant bloodlines through this kind of shit, and that's just like "No. We don't want those incentives".
 
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Vampires have plasticity of character to an extent - there is nothing keeping them from buying Intelligence, Wits or Resolve, and some of them even have their self-control or smarts improved by the Embrace. A child vampire may never complete their biological development and maturity, but they can still grow as a person, and mature in a less literal sense.

Most won't, because their starting point is such that they are not likely to survive very long. And even if a child vampire learns to act like an adult their nature will still poke through from time to time with moments of creepiness. But they're not necessarily stuck being mentally children forever.
 
EarthScorpion said:
No, actually.

What I'd argue is that if you don't count it as just another one of the mother's organs, it probably just dies when she dies. And the dead biological matter will leave her body at some point. The embracer isn't spending WP to embrace two people, after all.

Plus, then you get into the grounds of people making revenant bloodlines through this kind of shit, and that's just like "No. We don't want those incentives".
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I'm pretty sure that infants don't instantly die the moment their mother does IRL, and I'm not sure if 'You get a superpowered ghoul baby to take care of, it'll take at least 5 or 6 years before it's useful for anything' is much of an incentive to embrace pregnant women. I mean, it's not like you can't just buy a revenant in char gen as a high value retainer, and not have to deal with 'Damn it he's mauled the nursemaid again' on a regular basis.

Still, these are the sorts of things that you've got a lot of leeway in deciding, because they aren't actually in the core rules. I doubt it would come up in most games anyway, so this is basically just a hypothetical.
 
What if you embrace both the fetus and mother at the sane time?

What if you inject Vitae into the Fetus over a long period of time?

What if the baby Awakened when the mother is Embraced?

Could you create a fetus Frankenstein, and put that inside a lady Frankenstein?

Could an Unfleshed even make a baby in the first place?

If a pregnant lady dies in China, and comes back as a Kuei-JIn, what happens to the baby?

Could two different clans

What if a pregnant lady get's stolen by the Fae and gives birth beyond the hedge?

Why am I even asking these questions? :/ It feels wrong and unnecessary.
 
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EarthScorpion said:
It'll be pretty damn close. Once she stops breathing and her heart stops beating, that means "no more fresh oxygen". It's just another one of her organs, effectively.
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If the kid is far enough along, it should be able to survive if you get it out quickly, which means an abrupt cesarean. This would result in a Daywalker, possessing all of a vampire's strengths, none of their weaknesses, a bloodlust that can only be kept in check by a special serum and a burning desire for revenge against all vampires. Naturally, he will be trained by a Hunter named Whistler.


Vindictus said:
I'm pretty sure that infants don't instantly die the moment their mother does IRL, and I'm not sure if 'You get a superpowered ghoul baby to take care of, it'll take at least 5 or 6 years before it's useful for anything' is much of an incentive to embrace pregnant women. I mean, it's not like you can't just buy a revenant in char gen as a high value retainer, and not have to deal with 'Damn it he's mauled the nursemaid again' on a regular basis.

Still, these are the sorts of things that you've got a lot of leeway in deciding, because they aren't actually in the core rules. I doubt it would come up in most games anyway, so this is basically just a hypothetical.
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Dude. Vampires are immortal. 5 or 6 years from now is no different from Next Tuesday. Elders don't have 5 year plans, they have 5 century plans.
 
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hyzmarca said:
Dude. Vampires are immortal. 5 or 6 years from now is no different from Next Tuesday. Elders don't have 5 year plans, they have 5 century plans.
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Vampires - the kind that think ahead anyway - know perfectly well that they're going to have to periodically go into Torpor, hope against hope that any laid plans don't get totally derailed while they're napping, and desperately hope their reawoken self will be able to make enough sense of their notebooks to try to resume things.

Torpor may not be death, but it sure provides a cap on how long your plans can functionally extend.
 
notthepenguins said:
Vampires - the kind that think ahead anyway - know perfectly well that they're going to have to periodically go into Torpor, hope against hope that any laid plans don't get totally derailed while they're napping, and desperately hope their reawoken self will be able to make enough sense of their notebooks to try to resume things.

Torpor may not be death, but it sure provides a cap on how long your plans can functionally extend.
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Yep.

I mean, the smartest people who are actually good at planning and politics and stuff are aware that a year in politics is a decade in any other measure of the time-frame, and that the best laid plans often go awry.

Though honestly, that's more an objection with the way that a lot of people treat smart planners in general, rather than something with vampires.

But it is something that I've thought a lot about, since my Quests (all of them, actually) involve intelligent people, and some of them are quite willing to plan and scheme and dream towards the future.

So I've had a lot more time than most people do to try to work it all out.

The one prominent vampire I've written so far doesn't even have a specific plan for victory, just a knowledge that time erodes all victories and that he's liable to be able to outlive the (non-vampire) foe that has the upper-hand, as well as a set of guidelines and policies to hold things off in the meantime.

Sorry, talking too much, I know.
 
notthepenguins said:
Vampires - the kind that think ahead anyway - know perfectly well that they're going to have to periodically go into Torpor, hope against hope that any laid plans don't get totally derailed while they're napping, and desperately hope their reawoken self will be able to make enough sense of their notebooks to try to resume things.

Torpor may not be death, but it sure provides a cap on how long your plans can functionally extend.
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Honestly I find it odd that a rotating Princedom isn't the default form vampire leadership. Find 1+ kindred who aren't directly opposed to your goals and convince them rule with you in 100 year shifts.
 
Brother Mouse said:
idongeddit
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I'm sorry, I've been up for 60 hours straight because of Sinus congestion and have begun making stream of conscious rants to my cat about cartoons I watched when I was 6.

Noozles, also known as Blinkey the Wonderful Koala, is a children's anime that aired on Nickelodeon in the 80s. It's about two magical koalas from KoalaWalla Land, an alternate universe that can be accessed only through on Ayers Rock.

The noozles are known as such because they go into a magical sleep in which they're indistinguishable from plush toys and can only be awakened by rubbing you nose against theirs.
 
hyzmarca said:
I'm sorry, I've been up for 60 hours straight because of Sinus congestion and have begun making stream of conscious rants to my cat about cartoons I watched when I was 6.
Noozles, also known as Blinkey the Wonderful Koala, is a children's anime that aired on Nickelodeon in the 80s. It's about two magical koalas from KoalaWalla Land, an alternate universe that can be accessed only through on Ayers Rock.
The noozles are known as such because they go into a magical sleep in which they're indistinguishable from plush toys and can only be awakened by rubbing you nose against theirs.
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As a fan of old cartoons and someone that has been thinking of how to do an Australia-based game I have only good things to say about this idea.
Most of those things involve Alternate Worlds and Changeling.
 
Vindictus said:
This requires trusting somebody to look after your interests for 100 years.

In a Vampire game.

Hah.

Funny joke, man.
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Buddy of mine made a merit for such an occaison;

Boon Companion(s) every 2 dots you get a true friend of any splat (with GMs permission) that will NEVER willingly betray you and will always have your back.

Or somethin like that i dint remember.
 
Vindictus said:
This requires trusting somebody to look after your interests for 100 years.

In a Vampire game.

Hah.

Funny joke, man.
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If only any elder lived long enough to have a spare year or two of research dedicated to inventing a ritual that would make a vinculum-like mutual loyalty that lasts for centuries, hmmm . . .
 
Vindictus said:
This requires trusting somebody to look after your interests for 100 years.

In a Vampire game.

Hah.

Funny joke, man.
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That would require a Prince to be able to last a hundred years without being backstabbed by rivals / lynched by angry young neonates / stumbling into one of the many troubles of the World of Darkness.

And then for him, having lasted that long, to hand it over to someone who's been asleep for a hundred years and expect them to pick up the incredibly delicate balance of spinning plates and complex favours and unspoken politics and trust and not drop all the plates.

Which is, bluntly, laughable in its own right. Yeah, sure, a confused Fog-of-Ages afflicted elder who's 100 years out of date can just pick things up, and won't get cluster-sucked by every power interest who wants to take advantage of the clearly-good-at-their-role Prince who's been running it for a hundred years not being around anymore.
 
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