Between the God-Machine, the over-emphasis of the Strix in Vampire 2e, the changes to Changeling, and the awfulness of Demon and Beast, I'm glad I stick to a modified version of 1e nWoD.

Something I'd like to run as an RP on here is a 1e nWoD RP using only the corebooks (WoD 1e Corebook + Gameline Corebooks) and some minor modifications for Vampire (specifically getting rid of the emotional deadness angle pushed in the 1e corebook) and that's it. Sort of an original flavor RP for New World of Darkness.

I also have considered doing a period piece Grand Strategy RP for Vampire: The Requiem set in the Middle Ages. If Masquerade got a medieval setting, why not Requiem?
 
To reiterate my earlier question, what's up with the GMC?

From my understanding, Onyx Path changed the mechanics of nWoD (now Chronicles of Darkness) and introduced a new setting element called the God-Machine (essentially a divine super-computer) which seems like it's the basis for some kind of pseudo-metaplot for nWoD 2e. The game Demon: The Descent is entirely dependent on the God-Machine and the changes have been well-received by the Onyx Path fandom but they are controversial elsewhere.
 
... The fuck? Wow, now there's even less chance that I'll care about 2E then there was before.
Yeah. The best thing to do is probably to just steal some of the better ideas and mechanics it has and adapt them for 1e, as @The Laurent has been doing in his Changeling games.

By the way, @The Laurent, have you considered making some sort of public setting document for those games, seeing as all 4 share or at least start from the same setting? I'm interested in seeing more of the worldbuilding you've done, as long as you don't think it's too spoilery. :)
 
From my understanding, Onyx Path changed the mechanics of nWoD (now Chronicles of Darkness) and introduced a new setting element called the God-Machine (essentially a divine super-computer) which seems like it's the basis for some kind of pseudo-metaplot for nWoD 2e. The game Demon: The Descent is entirely dependent on the God-Machine and the changes have been well-received by the Onyx Path fandom but they are controversial elsewhere.
But what exactly are the issues with the GMC and GMC rules? I haven't touched the nWoD in a long while and have no clue what's going on here.
 
But what exactly are the issues with the GMC and GMC rules? I haven't touched the nWoD in a long while and have no clue what's going on here.

An overuse of Tilts which are confusingly described and often contradictory, mechanical balance issues, the inexplicable need for fighting styles to do a lot of fairly basic things, and generally being less mechanically elegant than nWoD 1E.
 
What's so unfuckupable about the Beast concept?
It's literally just a blank splat to let you imprint a monster type that they haven't bothered to make yet. Wanna be a Yokai? Sure. Dragon? Yep. Giant? Alright, totally can do that.

From there, you gather up a variety of thematic powers from across mythology (you can even just lift powers from other splats if you really want to, I doubt anyone would mind) to represent various supernatural elements.

Next, you set it up so that the more powerful you get, the harder it is to hide what you are which in turn inspires more Heroes to come after you.

Heroes, as it turns out, aren't actually people. They're basically Story Elements, think a temporary True Fae or Paradox Spirit. So it becomes an issue of Force of Nature. Make it so that the closer you are to people, the faster this 'paradox' builds up. This plays up the isolation angle.

From here, you make sure to put an emphasis on the Wonder of actually being something / the personal horror of realizing that you really are a Monster. You make sure that your protagonists (IE: the player characters), aren't supposed to be monsters incapable of redemption, but make the choice between trying to be a Higher Being and just fulfilling their Base Desires a legitimate struggle.

Vampire as been mentioned as a good example. A Vampire, unless they're a psychopath or particularly delusional, knows that they are hurting people. But, they justify it in a variety of ways (I don't want to die, I'll use my new powers for the good of the people, etc.) which makes them flawed people, but people can still feel an empathy and emotional connection with them. Similarly, Werewolves as Apex Predators really does this quite well.

Beast, as a game, should have basically been a melting pot of ideas from the other lines, plus some new elements to spice it up if possible. But, even if they didn't add anything new beyond fluff, it still would have sold like hot cakes. Because the idea of waking up tomorrow and finding out that you have the blood of a mythical creature in you is a FANTASTIC story angle with all kinds of questions and just as many varied answers.

Instead, we got the Great Feminist Man Beater and Corporate Drone Simulator Man, and monsters who's best bet at a normal life is to kidnap someone off the street and throw them into their dungeon to torment forever. And if they're ever nice to them? Well that's how you get Beauty and the Beast.

Actually, okay, one thing I really dislike about the Changeling 2E rules, as odd as it sounds, is that it literally made Changelings psychic evil vampires. Like, I liked the fact that Glamour Harvesting from emotions wasn't actually stealing from someone directly, and so that there was some moral ambiguity.

Instead, the target loses ALL willpower, cannot regain willpower, and becomes a 'dull reflection of who they were'. After a SINGLE glamour point of emotional harvesting (or more, but even one counts). And it lasts for a Week or Wyrd x 2, whichever is longer.
Nope.
Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope
NOPE!


I may have liked some of the hinting that repeatedly harvesting from someone sort of 'deadens' them, but not like this. I just liked the thematic that people can become emotionally drained by just constantly being made to feel the same thing over and over and over again. So the idea is that, instead of just constantly scaring someone or always making them angry, you occasionally settle for a lesser harvest from other emotions to keep them emotionally stable and not emotionally drained.

But this...
Not like this.


Don't you regret being so mad about nDemon now that you know it was the high point of GMC? :V
Truth hurts. And this is the truth. I am in so much pain right now.
 
Beasts are literally Otherkin. This is a subculture that actually exists, so the book should practically write itself if they did any research.

And, really,"you were a kaiju in a past life" is a hook that lends itself well to both heroes and villains.

One big problem with Beast is that the world building is non-existant. There are no protagonist factions. There are no antagonist factions. There are no factions at all. If you want to do politics, you'll have to join one of another splat's factions. There isn't enough material there to support a Beat-only game, at all.

Now, Beast is specifically designed for crossover play. This means that there is nothing for your characters to do except torture people and murder whatever crazy person tries to stop them if you stick to Beasts alone, so they really expect you to slot Beasts into vampire coteries and Werewolf packs or whatever. That is to say, you're not going to play Beast: The Primordial at your table. You're going to play Vampire and somehow convince your Storyteller that you should be allowed to play a Beast.
 
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Yeah, I must say they really botched their attempt to port Slashers to 2E. I mean seriously, what kind of person would want to do a group of Slashers as the PCs? And then they made it even worse with the minority subtext and Otherkin silliness.

Although on a more serious note the utter lack of social splats is what really killed Beast. Social splats give a decent starting point for interaction, attitude, and general outlook. I mean pretty much any splat would be shit if you removed their social splat. Instead all you get is a choice of what brand of psycho you are, which isn't even a concious choice, meaning it doesn't do a decent job of replacing the points of a social splat. The lack of a morality equivalent similarly weakens the splat as suddenly it's "anything goes" instead of having certain behaviors frowned upon, which a social splat would do a decent job of mitigating.

The focus on crossover also hurts Beast, but the two problems described above are my view of why it fails as a system. It also fails hard as a metaphor but that's a different matter.

For 2E, Mage is pretty much the only thing I'm looking forward to on the current docket. Changeling I might get into as well, but that's in a "wait a few months after release to see how it pans out" way instead of Mage's "hey cool, this really seems like a good writer who's mostly changing stuff for the purpose of making it run better instead of changing it for the sake of changing it".
 
Although on a more serious note the utter lack of social splats is what really killed Beast. Social splats give a decent starting point for interaction, attitude, and general outlook. I mean pretty much any splat would be shit if you removed their social splat.

Not true. Promethean manages it very well.

But the trick about Promethean is that it is laser-focussed on telling a single, specific story. It's basically an indie game. It doesn't need social splats, because the entire game is built from the ground up for a specific theme, feel and genre.

(I <3 Promethean so much.)
 
Would anybody be up for either a quest or Grand Strategy RP based off of Vampire: The Requiem 1E but set in the Middle Ages?

Be forewarned, I have taken two major liberties with the 1e setting. The first is that vampires are no longer emotionally dead (though I think most people homebrewed away this thing, which is why 2e got rid of it) and the other major change is that the Strix do not exist at all in this setting. Clan Julii was simply an earlier form of Clan Ventrue.

The other New World of Darkness gamelines (excluding Demon and Beast) will be in effect and in play as both allies and antagonists in this game.
 
Yeah. The best thing to do is probably to just steal some of the better ideas and mechanics it has and adapt them for 1e, as @The Laurent has been doing in his Changeling games.

By the way, @The Laurent, have you considered making some sort of public setting document for those games, seeing as all 4 share or at least start from the same setting? I'm interested in seeing more of the worldbuilding you've done, as long as you don't think it's too spoilery. :)

Maybe. A little later I might have a big post incoming about Changelings 1e vs. Changelings 2e vs. Vampires 1/2e RE: Harvesting stuff, and while I think that Glamour Harvesting in 1e has its own complex moral ambiguities and questions ("What sort of person am I to use a one night stand to gain magical power, why am I always making my friends angry, will I start viewing people as 'Glamour batteries' and influencing and fucking with their emotions like I'm a True Fae?") that are separate and equal to the "I'm a monster for having to do this to live" vibe that Vampire went to. More ambiguous, and just as interesting, or in some cases more.

However...I've just been without internet for seven hours and also need to go to dinner, so, uh, it'll have to wait a little while.

God, that was frustrating. Google Fiber? More like Google Bran.
 
QB Homebrew: Metagaming Sphere
I am a terrible person.

Metagaming

Example Specialties: Crossovers, Heroics, Genre Enforcement, Plot-Relevance

Stories are how humans relate to their pasts, their surroundings, and other beings. Even in the beginning, the precursors to the magi told stories of the things they saw out in the world, stoking the imaginations of their people and spinning their own stories. Time went on, and soon the stories wove into a meta-framework, from which genre, tropes, memes, and other aspects wove structure into the overall pattern and spurred further form and maturation of existence.

Notice how that paragraph was, in its own way, also a story?

The Metagamer understands how reality is composed of myriad stories all intersecting, and how the threads of plot bind the world together. They learn to discern these threads, change how they and the events around them relate to the overall story, and at higher levels spin new stories from whole cloth and at great cost force genres to shift so they are more accommodating to the Mage's preferred type of storytelling.

Legends say that the Oracles of the Narrative Art have even transcended their need to exist within the stories of this world, and encountered a greater being who weaves the substance of Creation from raw imagination, called only "The Storyteller".

(Metagaming is an alternate version of Entropy)

• Sense Plot and Genre

The flow of events often conforms to particular tropes and memes, but myriad influences and forces often shape it in unexpected ways, subverting, inverting, or playing straight the many contributing factors. The Metagamer learns to perceive the signs that lead to the eventual outcome, and thus discern likelihoods and plot twists as they occur. This awareness of the story gives an intuitive feel for the mythic threads which give structure to a narrative, and when others are harnessing or tugging on those threads.

They may also discern where the story has been twisted and gone wrong, revealing Paradox flaws and backlashes.

With conjunctional use, they may perceive a potential twist before it happens, sense a particular entity's importance to the Plot, intuit whether a given rite is Vulgar, and sense when a faraway plot point occurs.

•• Roll the Dice, Play the Game

Sometimes a narrative device is, for reasons of dramatic suspense, left more-or-less to chance. It becomes easier to suggest how events could go at such places, as multiple outcomes are already valid, and a metagamer may shift which these crossroads in Plot tend as they come up – changing the difficulty of a roll for an event they can perceive. This applies nearly anytime a result hinges on a dice roll.

Likewise, they may defend the Plot against tampering from other sources, preemptively performing countermagic against Metagaming or other fate-shiftings for the duration of an effect, and weave their effects so that they respond to plot twists and other events. Usually, these events need to be anticipated when building them into the effect, at least broadly.

With conjunctional Spheres, the Metagamer may build enchantments set to go off at particular foreseen events of the story, tie effects to momentous decisions on another character's part rather than things visible to a third person perspective, and arrive somewhere at the most dramatically appropriate moment.

••• Chekov's Gun, Plot Armor, I Am Not Left Handed

With this level of Metagaming, the Mage learns how to increase the relevance of an item or character in the eyes of the Plot, altering the outcomes of events around it. The most usual effect is to shift events so that it is prevented from an inglorious end, performs exceptionally well (or poorly), or acts as a 'karma sink'; likewise, its relevance or 'luck' may be 'hung' to unleash when a climax or other event occurs. A weapon encountered ends up being critical in a later scene (expending its karmic potential) or being a Sword of Damocles that eventually dooms its wielder, and so on.

A Disciple of Metagaming may also create minor retroactive "bends" in the narrative, making something which was once presumed true unto falsehood, revealing that it was a ruse the entire time. This risks vulgarity if a fact was well-established and seems to come wholly out of nowhere, but these plot twists can deceive even destiny and the Players themselves if well-used.

With other Spheres, this narrative importance can be invested into a material, place, or future period, or even a phrase or relationship.

•••• Foreshadowing, Genre Shift, Break the Fourth Wall

Bringing up the relevance of an object is one thing; even more difficult to implement is foreshadowing future events, what the more traditional might term "destiny". An Adept of Metagaming may make implications or invoke tropes that bind a subplot into the greater Plot, creating Destinies and more complex blessings and curses. Story elements left to chance can be pushed into a path of success or failure within the bounds of their possibility.

Likewise, the very bounds of genre and good sense may be reworked by hammering the mythic threads into shape. An Awakened being can be realigned to the ambient genre, reducing the impact of Paradox by finding common ground. Conversely, a genre can be forcibly shifted to the metagamer's own, creating what amounts to a temporary Sanctum; this latter effect is always Vulgar, as it wrenches the very foundations of the Plot. Such events normally only last a scene before the strain forces it to revert.

In one of the more bizarre applications of this Sphere, the Metagamer may live up to their name and "look past the Fourth Wall", gaining fleeting glimpses of information they have no other way of knowing. In absence of Correspondence or Time, these always entail their immediate environs.

With the other Spheres, foreshadowing can be infused with resilience against other forms of magick and linked to the possession or presence of objects or beings. Genre shifts can be embedded in people, places, and other stranger things rather than the scene (which is believed to be one source of Marauders), and beings from other settings may be pulled across the gulf of the metaverse. The character may view omakes through the veil of alternate worlds and wield references to influence the other players.

••••• Subvert and Define Tropes, Mitigate Crossover, Mary Sue, Traverse the Fourth Wall

At the finest control of the narrative, the Metagamer has learned to reweave the underpinnings of the story. She may now bring a mythic thread into being and spread its influence, or degrade it to a stale cliche. Memes and counter-memes can be spread to encourage a gradual shift in the ambient genre.

When genres clash, the story itself degrades and lashes out to equalize the difference; with this level of knowledge, these conflicts can be mitigated and woven together in a satisfactory fashion, albeit at a cost of some effort and creativity. Much like with Prime 5, a point of Quintessence can be spent per point of Paradox to neutralize it.

In the most horrific application of the Sphere known, a character may be persistently granted the ability to warp the story about herself, succeeding consistently in endeavors where a more natural entity might merely have a substantial chance of victory. These Mary Sues live a life blessed beyond what any right-thinking individual might think safe or sane.

It is said that some Masters of Metagaming have learned how to bribe the legendary "Storyteller". These claims have not been substantiated, though persistent rumors of Archmastery doing so exist; however, it is known that Masters may travel to "omakes" and alternate presents. More traditional mystics consider this to be deliberately entering the Mirror Zone.
 
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I haven't been directly exposed to enough oMage to know if this is balanced or not, but I love the idea of it. could you give some direct example spells for it, instead of just IC fluff? it might help me wrap my head around this a bit more.

Seems balanced, but thematically problematic.

It's far too funny and self aware.
That's because the concept of a metagaming sphere is a running gag from Panopticon Quest.
 
I haven't been directly exposed to enough oMage to know if this is balanced or not, but I love the idea of it. could you give some direct example spells for it, instead of just IC fluff? it might help me wrap my head around this a bit more.
Detect Protagonist (Metagaming 1): With a brief glimpse into the relevancies of the plot, the Mage senses whether someone is destined to do great or terrible things and whether they will feature heavily in the narrative in which the Mage themself is involved.

I Am The Chosen One (Metagaming 3-5): By drawing the threads of the narrative around themself, the Mage accepts that they are the Chosen One, exalted above all mortals by their player character status, and that the Storyteller however cruel will not allow them a boring death even if only to ensure greater tragedy at a later date. Difficulties on all rolls in a broad category are reduced in difficulty for them by 1 for the duration per success above duration successes. The Metagaming 5 version, termed "Walking the Path of Heaven", instead converts a number of dice on a mundane ability use into automatic successes for the duration.

Curse Your Sudden Yet Inevitable Betrayal (Time 2, Metagaming 3 or Metagaming 4, optional Time 4): By predicting who is most likely to betray you, you may levy a curse on them to be enacted upon the event of their betrayal. With Metagaming 4, this curse can be applied regardless of actually knowing who will perform the betrayal, or arrange events to push it to occur regardless of likelihood. The opposite of this, Heel Face Turn, determines one of your enemies likely to defect to your side and grants them minor boons when acting in accordance with that end - or arranges events to push them over the edge. Paradox effects may include feelings of paranoia about entirely loyal characters and pushing them away.

Retroactively A Doombot Prana (Correspondence 3, Life 2, Matter 3, Metagaming 3): By displacing their misfortune at being captured or nearly assassinated onto a prepared body double, the character may reveal that they were actually a log or robot the entire time - and the Plot will back them up in minor changes that reveal this was always the case. With Life 3, the aftereffects of being stabbed may be transferred to the body double. With Correspondence 4/Life 4, they can instead reveal that they were instead their own stunt double or a giant chicken. With Forces 3, the body double may immediately self-destruct (including or perhaps especially if revealed to be a chicken). While Metagaming can to an extent corroborate this backstory, changes that are too extreme may result in feedback errors or equivalent misfortune having much the same effect as the fate they thought they escaped.

Seems balanced, but thematically problematic.

It's far too funny and self aware.
By Design Won't Fix
The first step in dealing with your problem, is admitting you have one.
I refuse to acknowledge it as a problem. :D
 
Detect Protagonist (Metagaming 1): With a brief glimpse into the relevancies of the plot, the Mage senses whether someone is destined to do great or terrible things and whether they will feature heavily in the narrative in which the Mage themself is involved.

I Am The Chosen One (Metagaming 3-5): By drawing the threads of the narrative around themself, the Mage accepts that they are the Chosen One, exalted above all mortals by their player character status, and that the Storyteller however cruel will not allow them a boring death even if only to ensure greater tragedy at a later date. Difficulties on all rolls in a broad category are reduced in difficulty for them by 1 for the duration per success above duration successes. The Metagaming 5 version, termed "Walking the Path of Heaven", instead converts a number of dice on a mundane ability use into automatic successes for the duration.

Curse Your Sudden Yet Inevitable Betrayal (Time 2, Metagaming 3 or Metagaming 4, optional Time 4): By predicting who is most likely to betray you, you may levy a curse on them to be enacted upon the event of their betrayal. With Metagaming 4, this curse can be applied regardless of actually knowing who will perform the betrayal, or arrange events to push it to occur regardless of likelihood. The opposite of this, Heel Face Turn, determines one of your enemies likely to defect to your side and grants them minor boons when acting in accordance with that end - or arranges events to push them over the edge. Paradox effects may include feelings of paranoia about entirely loyal characters and pushing them away.

Retroactively A Doombot Prana (Correspondence 3, Life 2, Matter 3, Metagaming 3): By displacing their misfortune at being captured or nearly assassinated onto a prepared body double, the character may reveal that they were actually a log or robot the entire time - and the Plot will back them up in minor changes that reveal this was always the case. With Life 3, the aftereffects of being stabbed may be transferred to the body double. With Correspondence 4/Life 4, they can instead reveal that they were instead their own stunt double or a giant chicken. With Forces 3, the body double may immediately self-destruct (including or perhaps especially if revealed to be a chicken). While Metagaming can to an extent corroborate this backstory, changes that are too extreme may result in feedback errors or equivalent misfortune having much the same effect as the fate they thought they escaped.


By Design Won't Fix

I refuse to acknowledge it as a problem. :D

I love this~ I love it so much~!

Also,

The Metagaming 5 version, termed "Walking the Path of Heaven", instead converts a number of dice on a mundane ability use into automatic successes for the duration.



Tendou? How'd you get out of the Kamen Rider world?
 
Tendou? How'd you get out of the Kamen Rider world?
Summon Crossover (Spirit 4, optional Metagaming 4): The Mage reaches out into the metaverse and brings the manifestation of a character from an alternate setting to their location. The being so summoned is compelled to behave as the character would, but is not otherwise bound without additional effects. With Metagaming 4, the character can undergo character growth and become naturalized to the local reality, creating a persistent crossover setting.
 
Is not that different from Talecrafting, really. Is a perfectly valid paradigm to follow, there is nothing really weird about it.
 
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