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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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The Laurent said:
Hmm, I do think the 'all damage takes' thing though, would make the form useless for...I mean, it says 'takes the bear's form' and so while it can be used to become a cat and sneak into a building (and that's totally cool) as intended, it seems to want to be something where you can go to war with it, and who would do so knowing that the moment they revert if they get into an actual, dangerous, fight that actually does damage they'll instantly die.
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Not really? If you go to war in bear form you won't die any faster than you would as a human, even if you assume it all carries over.

The Laurent said:
Compromise position seems more RAI, in terms of this being the five-level capstone that's meant to be impressive, now that I'm trying to think through design intent.
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Fundamentally, I think "I get an animal's stats" is pretty meh for a capstone, so from a GM standpoint I'd probably go for the "compromise."
 
If we go by the precedent established in 1e Vampire: the Requiem, additional health once lost does not change your damage total, so turning back into a human can kill you just as Resilience ending can put you into torpor.

Of course that was terrible and 2e VtR changed that completely to loud acclaim, so, uh, I'm not sure exactly what I'm saying here.
 
Actually... No. Unless the power says otherwise, when you change your Health dots by changing Size, you recalculate any damage you've already suffered - if you are usually Size 5 and Health 7, but are in a Size 8 (Health 10) shape and take nine lethal damage then change back, you end up with two aggravated, five lethal, and rapidly bleeding to death.

It's entirely intentional, and was written into the CofD's rules system so that Forsaken first ed could use it.

In Forsaken 2e, it's explained in a sidebar on page 172 entitled "temporary Health dots".

Resilience's "add to Stamina" persistent effect in 2e VtR is always on, so does not specify either way as the vampire will always keep those extra Health boxes.

If you die in a smaller form then transform back, you leave a corpse that doesn't look injured enough. But still a corpse.
 
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davebrookshaw said:
Actually... No. Unless the power says otherwise, when you change your Health dots by changing Size, you recalculate any damage you've already suffered - if you are usually Size 5 and Health 7, but are in a Size 8 (Health 10) shape and take nine lethal damage then change back, you end up with two aggravated, five lethal, and rapidly bleeding to death.

It's entirely intentional, and was written into the CofD's rules system so that Forsaken first ed could use it.

Resilience's "add to Stamina" persistent effect in 2e VtR is always on, so does not specify either way as the vampire will always keep those extra Health boxes.

If you die in a smaller form then transform back, you leave a corpse that doesn't look injured enough. But still a corpse.
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Interesting, though it seems to make Fang and Talon 5 so totally useless as to be laughable.

But, dem's the breaks, I guess.
 
Lots of writers in the middle CofD games thought that temporary increases to Health were impressive, without realizing that it's only impressive for werewolves because they also regenerate.

It's not quite on the level of thinking 9-again is a significant power boost, but it's up there.
 
The Laurent said:
Let's say the Changeling actually does turn into, say, a bear. They normally have Stamina 2, Size 5. So seven health. They now have Stamina 4, Size 7, so 11 Health. When they turn back, would all wounds be still inflicted? Like, if they take 7 damage and then turn back from grizzly to human, would they instantly start dying from a loss of health, or would none of it count or (compromise position) would it be that the health above the maximum is 'artificial health' and so they'd take the damage minus the difference. So, 4 difference, seven damage, so when they turn back they'd be sporting three lethal damage, but wouldn't, you know, be dying.
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If you go by example then yes. Never have stamina 3 as a werewolf. Ever. At least in 1st Edition.
 
An CWoD question;
I've seen references to the "Balance Wyrm" and "Purifier Wyrm" but could never find a straight answer as to what those actually are.
So, what are they? And which book/s are they detailed in?

Without an answer I've been assuming that they are whatever insignificantly small portion of the Wyrm that remains uncorrupted and tries to follow its original purpose.
 
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Sydonai said:
An CWoD question;
I've seen references to the "Balance Wyrm" and "Purifier Wyrm" but could never find a straight answer as to what those actually are.
So, what are they? And which book/s are they detailed in?

Without an answer I've been assuming that they are whatever insignificantly small portion of the Wyrm that remains uncorrupted and tries to follow its original purpose.
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Basically they where, i can't remember at the moment if they still are somewhere minor and hidden, the Wyrm because before he went mad.
 
Some Spirits claim to still serve the Balance Wyrm's cause having defected back to Gaïa. Uktena and Bat before its fall were of those. Some ancient imprisoned spirits claim the same thing and Apocalypse says that the oldest of the Wyrm's servants are not moved to immediate acts of corruption and evil.

Of course in canon that part of the Wyrm doesn't exist anymore. But who cares about canon?
 
BlueBiscuit said:
So, here's a thing. An interview with the "Lead Storyteller" of White Wolf.
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I was just about to post that.

Being a n!WoD fan (or I guess I'm a CoD fan now), I kinda disagree with a lot of his views (trying to deal with 9/11 in a game in 2003 would have been moronic), but I guess I can't argue that o!WoD is where the money is.

Knife twisting line of the day: "I love CoD and find that is a much more playable game with a more vague and unsettling aesthetic than WoD ever had. Too bad it never sold for shit and that old players hated it. It lacked the epic scope and the punk passion of the classic WoD. Had it done even remotely as well as the classic WoD things would be very different."

Honestly, I couldn't care less what they do with o!WoD, but it's still kinda mind boggling to me that they seem to be trying to recapture the 90s edgelord era.
 
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It's kinda funny how in that same line he admits that the nWoD is actually better a being a tabletop rpg, and that the "economic center" of WW going forward is going to be computer games.

Also:
>Will the Werewolves remain crypto fascist eco-terrorist?
>More than they have ever been. Global Warming has released the Wyrm-tide. The end of the Impergium (ancient Werewolves hunting humans to keep their numbers manageable) seems like a terrible mistake in retrospect.
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Red Talons did nothing wrong :V
 
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Cogsprocket said:
"I love CoD and find that is a much more playable game with a more vague and unsettling aesthetic than WoD ever had. Too bad it never sold for shit and that old players hated it. It lacked the epic scope and the punk passion of the classic WoD. Had it done even remotely as well as the classic WoD things would be very different."
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"Our new game was great because it was a vague toolbox that never settled on any answers for anything ever, and we never published any Chronicles Books / Lines to create meta stories for it. Therefore it sold bad because there was nothing to get players to connect with one another, because each game could be so horribly different from any other game."

NO! You don't say! It's almost like you never even payed attention to Dungeons and Dragons or any other game system built around a core toolbox set of rules, but that then had a bunch of 'world' supplements. Which is ironic as fuck, given that you WROTE 3RD PARTY STUFF FOR D&D.

I would also point out that a major reason that I've been quoted for not liking it is basically because you can't be insanely powerful.
"What do you mean I can't just levitate people into air and throw fireballs at them!?!"
"What do you mean I can't make a horde of zombies hidden away in my basement!?!"
etc.
 
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BlueBiscuit said:
So, here's a thing. An interview with the "Lead Storyteller" of White Wolf.
Once again, I'm reminded why 98% of the oWoD makes me cringe.
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I have a feeling that I am not going to like his views on Mages...

(Please no 90s "stick it to the man" themes, Please no 90s "stick it to the man" themes, Please no 90s "stick it to the man" themes, Please no 90s "stick it to the man" th...)
 
It sold bad relative to the oWoD at least in part because... uh, you know. The RPG market in the mid 00s was radically different to the early 90s. The supplement treadmill of the 90s had collapsed and videogames were an actively-mainstream rival. If the oWoD had been released in the mid-00s, it would be considered a failure compared to 90s-released oWoD just as much.

The industry by the mid-00s - and by now, certainly - was a shadow of the 90s. There is one big publisher left that actually runs as a proper publisher, and that's WOTC. The OGL caused massive collateral damage. GURPS is effectively a vanity project funded by Munchkin. In fact, the RPG industry is practically a cottage industry, made so by the very low barriers to entry - and with the usual flaws of cottage industries.
 
ManusDomine said:
I have a feeling that I am not going to like his views on Mages...

(Please no 90s "stick it to the man" themes, Please no 90s "stick it to the man" themes, Please no 90s "stick it to the man" themes, Please no 90s "stick it to the man" th...)
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Given that his spiel includes 'the Technocracy has won, since we let machines control our lives,' I'm going to go with no.
 
Also: "At the same time we are applying engineering to quantum mechanics, making magical theories manifest as Science"

FUCKING MAKE THE PAIN END! "SCIENCE" ISN'T A FUCKING PRODUCT, IT IS A PROCESS OF OBSERVATION!

[SCREAMS INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY]
 
Vindictus said:
Elricsson's pic is kind of hilarious, isn't it?

He's wearing a gauntlet.

Like, a super fancy ornate one, but it's still a gauntlet.
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He looks like the guy you want to be running your game line, certainly.

EarthScorpion said:
It sold bad relative to the oWoD at least in part because... uh, you know. The RPG market in the mid 00s was radically different to the early 90s. The supplement treadmill of the 90s had collapsed and videogames were an actively-mainstream rival. If the oWoD had been released in the mid-00s, it would be considered a failure compared to 90s-released oWoD just as much.

The industry by the mid-00s - and by now, certainly - was a shadow of the 90s. There is one big publisher left that actually runs as a proper publisher, and that's WOTC. The OGL caused massive collateral damage. GURPS is effectively a vanity project funded by Munchkin. In fact, the RPG industry is practically a cottage industry, made so by the very low barriers to entry - and with the usual flaws of cottage industries.
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This is only half true. oWoD still has a huge following that the nWoD was never able to achieve, and they pay more money for their shit. Just comparing the Kickstarters for oWoD20A products and nWoD2E splatbooks is really telling.

And, the fact of the matter is that there are no nWoD video games. oWoD has Bloodlines, which is still relatively popular.

Metaplot also helps, a lot. It's easier to build a game when you know what's going on in the world. Old World of Darkness had that out the yazoo.

And, of course, there is the Onyx path licensing issue. I suspect that they can't just void that contract, and would have to accept whatever Onyx Path handed to them. Not what they want if they're looking to create an integrated multimedia franchise with books, games, and television series all on the same page.

Finally, Old World of Darkness is just easier to sell, to investors. To television networks. Heck, Vampire the Masquarade had a television series. It lasted for half a season because Fox always cancels everything, but it existed.

Really, what I take away from this interview is that Paradox has the ambition that CCP lacked, and are going to try to make the most of their IP, rather than just milking it for licensing fees.
 
hyzmarca said:
This is only half true. oWoD still has a huge following that the nWoD was never able to achieve, and they pay more money for their shit. Just comparing the Kickstarters for oWoD20A products and nWoD2E splatbooks is really telling.
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... man, you're not actually contradicting me at all. Like, one bit.

I say "The market in 2004 was radically different and had basically collapsed and that if oWoD had been released in 2004 rather than the early 90s, it would have been nowhere near as popular".

You say "There are a lot more fans of oWoD than there are of nWoD".

Like... that isn't a refutation. At all. When a market collapses, that's because people aren't buying things.
 
I'm not certain if it was the market for RPGs in specific so much as the culture at the time.

Vampire just caught the cultural zeitgeist of its release date in a way that the nWoD never did.
 
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