notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
They were. Now they're not.
White Wolf's World of Darkness
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- They/Them
As in "it's not a lie anymore"?
Well, the debate is closed, I think. Whoever creates dinosaurs can't possibly bad.
Also, not dying of some horrible illness in a gutter is pretty nice, so there's that too.
NonSequtur
a body
They made them no longer piss opiates.
Anyway, Omicron does have a very valid point in that most people are going to take the reading that best justifies their politics, as opposed to finding the most supported/coherent[1] reading and then making judgements. Hence FBH taking a very pro-Traditions reading - not just in conclusion, but in the matters of fact that lead to it - while MJ takes a much more pro-Union one.
[1] Of course, that's still a political judgement. Ah well.
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- Location
- Spain
Or, you know just in the the way you consider more funnier.
Anyway, canon is inconsistent enough that you can basically interpret it however you wish.
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I don't disagree, but I don't think this makes the interpretation wrong. The reason a lot of people support the Traditions is because they agree with them politically, leading to the deemphasizing of things which would make them less agreeable. Other people have the Technocracy agree with them politically, whether they're the science-worshiping brogressives or authoritarian progressives or Chinese legalists or whatever, and thus deemphasize things which make the Technocracy less agreeable.
I don't see this as wrong or bad. In fact, I see this inadvertent vagueness because of poor line control to be why oMage is still popular enough 20 years in to create an anniversary edition rather than a joke like oChangeling. It's politically relevant and has stayed politically relevant.
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It's weird that they're doing an oChangeling 20th edition or whatever book, really, considering I only know of one person ever who takes it seriously/likes it.
Again, antagonist book for Technocracy games. That's my interpretation and I'm sticking to it.
Any other interpretation is just kind of depressing.
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Again, antagonist book for Technocracy games. That's my interpretation and I'm sticking to it.
Any other interpretation is just kind of depressing.
I wonder if there will be a WW/Onyx Path around to release a nChangeling 20th anniversary.
Hasn't WW and its stuff been acquired by Paradox? Given that Paradox is doing pretty okay I suspect yes, but things can change in... 10 years? 15 years?
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So, since it isn't that far off, only a decade, what are you looking forward to in Changeling: The Lost 20th Anniversary Edition, and in what ways is it completely better/totally worse than Changeling: The Lost 2e, which isn't out yet but I'm sure that doesn't stop anyone from having an opinion.
Again, antagonist book for Technocracy games. That's my interpretation and I'm sticking to it.
Any other interpretation is just kind of depressing.
It got $380,000.
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1: The Traditions of the Werwolves are Tenthousand years old, and are nearly unchanged from the start to down as they are seen as Divine Comandment.Well, worship of the state isn't necessarily needed for Fascism. I like Eco's Ur-Fascism definitions, though he makes it clear you don't have to check every box. Also some of these inherently contradict each other because Ur-fascism itself isn't exactly coherent, and that's the point.
1) Cultural Sycrentism and a worship of tradition. It doesn't have to be a coherent tradition, and you can set it in the ancient past (Atlantis), but what matters is the overall valorization.
2) Irrationalism and a rejection of modernity (often political modernity because most states have to use some technology).
3) Act, don't think. A cult of action that values action over reflection. (So many Splats I can't even count).
4) Disagreement=Treason (As if thought crimes exist...*glances at oMage)
5) A fear of difference. Often racism, but it could potentially manifest in other ways.
6) The one most every group is least likely to actually ping: appeals to a frustrated middle-class.
7) An obsession that there is a plot or scheme to run or ruin the world. Oddly enough, in the World of Darkness there is...but being right doesn't stop it from being hallmark fascist.
8) The enemy is strong, but weak. They are rich, powerful, and decadent...and yet can be overcome. They are dangerous and to be distrusted, yet can be beaten.
9) Life is war, pacifism is weakness, glory to bloodshed! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
10) Contempt for the weak, and popular elitism. There are the weak, and the strong, and the strong deserve by their merits to lead the weak, thus justifying a hierarchy while disclaiming it. Establishing it. This weakness probably could be spun into 'knowledge' though this would contradict the anti-intellectualism of other points. But, for instance, one could say, "Non-Mages are contemptible, weak nobodies, and for their own good they should grant us absolute power and authority."
11) "We can be heroes, just for one day!" Everyone is educated to be a hero. To die gloriously to save the world. Not just an exception, but the rule.
12) Machismo, often in the form of sexism or homophobia (again, this is one that WoD at least hits somewhat more rarely than the others, though it's implied that the Technocracy might have once been certain things before rewriting history so that they were never on the wrong side.)
13) Selective Populism. You appeal to the people, without asking persons. You have a dictator who hears the "Voice of the People" yet you despise parliaments and want this voice heard in a vague, qualitative way, not in anything like, say, actual voting.
14) Newspeak. Now, every splat has more than a little of this, honestly.
It's surprising how many of these are hit by different splats.
2: Stasis is baaaad , And so technological inovation is baad.
3: Act , and then be ashamed and let your faults controll your afterwards. They ater all have 3 different sorts of Blind rage where they can't controll themself.
4: See the fate of the native american Werwolves and the Australian ones. Oh and every shapechanger that is not a wolf.
5:War of Rage
6:Eh, got nothing there
7:The apocalypse is comming and we can't stop it
8:"We can#t win but we can still beat its minnions up, even if we are loosing. " "Humans are weak, which is why we now have to hide from them because there are to many of them to genocide them back to a managable level."
9:Warriors of Gaia, we got one Tribe that is more Pacifist then the others and we all look down on them for that.
10:Standing among Garou is determined by how honorable and impressive you are, meaning that the strong rule because they are Effective, and the weak serve because they are weak. And that is among Shifters, if you add there kine which all to often ends up as broodmares to birth new warriors and no other concerns for them are raised...
11
ie in glory is one of there Taglines.12:Norwegian Nazi tribe, Mainly Female tribe that all to often ends up written as Femnazi. Prejeduce against people born from "sinnfull encounters." And Maximum Warrior Culture as we got more tribes that define themself over there warriors and the War then about other things.
13:Not really
14: The first tongue, which is better then a Human speach etc.
And as a bonus, every tribe is a racist stereotype going from Drunk Oirish, Nazi Vikings, Egyptian Travelers of Mysticism, 3 Flavors of Native Americans. Shifty Eastern Europeans ...
Well that is flat out wrong considering how far the vampires fell if one compares them in the 12th century to the 20th century.
For one Population. The laws of night in the high middle age where that you on average should not have more then 1 vampie per 1000 humans, nowadays its 1 per 100K , which is mostly because of the changed situation. Second they are clearly still Powerfull, but they are not sitting in the Rulers cabinet , or are semingly openly ruling somewhere, they turned to the shadow and while they are influential in covering themself up, they also harm less people then in the middle ages.Making mortals go to war now is impossible for non Metusalah while it was normal in the Dark Ages.
Dragons are gone, Fae do not ride and hunt humans for sport , even if the comparsion between CtDA and CtD is a bit problematic thanks to the changed focuss.
The werewolfs have to hide instead of ruling openly even if that has unwanted knockdown effects. Spirits are not able to demand sacrifices even if they no longer offer boons that easily but considering how 1/3 of them are banes that is a good thing.
AshenFox
Copy Control, we are a go.
- Location
- Sector 13
Currently, this is what is going to happen concerning the Worlds of Darkness and all other related things:
The Old / Classic World of Darkness, is now the One World of Darkness (or possibly just the World of Darkness, how they've talked about it can make it a bit unclear as to what they're actually saying at times). This World of Darkness will see all of it's currently funded / in production projects through Onyx Path Publishing finish. However, all future development will be done in house at Paradox. The entire focus of the game will shift to Europe, Africa, and Asia (the implication was basically that if you weren't part of these markets, you didn't matter, or at least that was my reading / understanding of the whole thing). And... that's about it for Old / Classic / One / World of Darkness (Welcome to 'oh my god, stop, to many names' country).
As for the New World of Darkness, it will be (they've already changed it actually) renamed the Chronicles of Darkness. It will focus on basically being a sandbox kit for running games of your choosing with. Onyx will be allowed to continue making stuff for it (for now). However, it should be noted that Paradox basically had a gun pointed at New World of Darkness's / Chronicles of Darkness's head and was genuinely considering pulling the trigger to get rid of it entierly because, "It threatens the 'brand' of the Old / Classic / One / World of Darkness." However, such benevolent rulers Paradox is that they have been kind and not killed off an entirely different set of game lines... because.
Anything owned in whole by Onyx (Pugmire, Trinity Continuium, Scarred Lands, Cavaliers of Mars) is still Onyx Path Publishing's things to do with as they please.
Exalted will be, similarly, finishing it's current projects with Onyx and then reverting back to White Wolf (possibly for in house development like oWoD).
Scion (last I heard anyway) will simply continue to be published and created by Onyx Path.
(My information or interpretation of said information is my own opinion, and may not be 100% accurate. I'll admit that, I haven't been paying close attention to the situation since the initial announcements and the subsequent "here's what happening" talks.)
Edit: Also, Paradox acquired everything related to White Wolf from CCP. This includes all the products of the attempted MMO for example. If it was White Wolf, and especially if it was oWoD (and by extension nWoD) they got it.
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notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
On the one hand, they almost killed off a gameline, and aren't focusing on the Americas (I can understand Asia, but Africa?). On the other hand, I really dislike a lot of what Onyx Path's done recently, and taking back Exalted.
Also, citation, especially on the Exalted bit?
AshenFox
Copy Control, we are a go.
- Location
- Sector 13
Yeah, was basically my outlook too.
I'll have to dig up the Exalted citation when I get the chance later tonight when I get home.
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Alright, Lloydgame Session 1!
In which it turns out that economics is complicated, Lloyd gets lucky not to wind up a huddled mess, cars are involved, and also long speeches! Finally, in which food is mentioned yet never portrayed.
Also, you should be able to access it to look, right?
In which it turns out that economics is complicated, Lloyd gets lucky not to wind up a huddled mess, cars are involved, and also long speeches! Finally, in which food is mentioned yet never portrayed.
Also, you should be able to access it to look, right?
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As far as I know, Scion was purchased outright at the same time the Trinity Continuum was, so that should also be in the "Onyx Path's things they can do with as they please" file.
Grunt
Well, sorry Sword-Princess!
- Location
- Austria
Yeah, Scion was bought by Onyx Path, that's why it gets the same new system as trinity, so that its not based on a system The Onyx Path doesn't actually own or has the right to use.
Also, the new Lead Storyteller Martin Ericsson is rather in favour of participatory storytelling for the oWoD, I hope that was the term, and he intends for official LARPs to guide the metaplot in some way. That was in combination with the new focus on europe, asia and africa.
I would really like to know where AshenFox got the stuff about them possibly pulling the trigger on nWoD/CofD, since I saw nothing like that from anyone but disgruntled fans.
Also, the new Lead Storyteller Martin Ericsson is rather in favour of participatory storytelling for the oWoD, I hope that was the term, and he intends for official LARPs to guide the metaplot in some way. That was in combination with the new focus on europe, asia and africa.
I would really like to know where AshenFox got the stuff about them possibly pulling the trigger on nWoD/CofD, since I saw nothing like that from anyone but disgruntled fans.
- Location
- Italy
I find this to be less and less true the further one goes from the 1e corebook (which might as well had "BTW this isn't Ascension" as a secondary subtitle).
As Awakening started to grow in it's own thing and fully embrace it's conspiracy-horror leanings, it adopted the general aptitude of the rest of the nWoD towards history: on the surface, it happened exactly as in the real world, but in the shadows the supernatural has partecipated and influenced things to variying degrees.
It's when stuff like the Silver Ladder having conspired against and helped depose the Merovingians (a Proximus Dynasty, so they had actual magical powers) because they had too uppity, or the Halifax Explosion being the result of a large scale conflict with the Seer Ministry of Paternorster.
There's a lot of stuff like that, especially in the various Order books, that kinda disproves the "mages are too busy messing with each other to mess with other people".
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The thing is, though, even with all of that, Mages no longer run history. Neither do vampires.
- Location
- Italy
Of course they don't, especially if by "run history" you mean literally rewriting history books and academic consesus they way the Technocracy does.
But they most certainly partecipate in it, and it would actually be wierder if they didn't. They aren't bystanders.
Edit: There's also the fact that the history of the oWoD very much isn't, and never was, in line with that of our own world.
But they most certainly partecipate in it, and it would actually be wierder if they didn't. They aren't bystanders.
Edit: There's also the fact that the history of the oWoD very much isn't, and never was, in line with that of our own world.
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- She/Her
That sounds like a pretty micky mouse version of ascension.
Like, that sounds actually like the total opposite of Ascension.
So no, I can't say I'm very convinced by this plan as opposed to mass religious awakening, fuck the whole population up on drugs or even teach everyone kung fu.
I don't tend to pay much attention to white wolf's end game scenarios, or really any lf the fluff from revised, because most of it doesn't really do what I want to do with a mage game, and also because the end game scenarios are artificial and silly. The end of your campaign isn't something you should let anyone else write.
Totally. If you're in a technocracy game.
I do, probably also cause I don't really obsess about mage fluff very much. (If I did, I'd say "the technocracy are obviously the bad guys because they're in bed with the Captain Planet Devil")
If you want to look deep enough into the stuff white wolf produced, you can find a lot of silly, even racist stuff, and a lot of strangeness introduced by them trying to keep their settings all in the same world.
However, playing traditionalists in mage does ultimately challenge the beliefs I (and I'd guess, most people on this board) hold. There really are higher things for humanity than "less suffering, more pleasure". There is a higher power, and conspiracy theories are real. Also, science is potentially evil and eating your soul.
Those are all things that challenge the basis of my world view, and I find it interesting to explore them.
Who?
I hate to tell you this my friend but this is one of those things we traditionalists call a joke. I realize mirror shade wearing tools of the System have your sense of humour removed by surgery, but try not to take it too seriously.
Who?
Uhuh.
Things might not be as bad as the dark ages, but vampires are still killing large numbers of humans, and are effectively controlling large parts of mortal society while the technocracy looks on.
AshenFox
Copy Control, we are a go.
- Location
- Sector 13
I bow before the superior knowledge. I was never much of an Scion fan, admittedly.
That one was direct from Onyx Path, who said something along the lines of, "Initially Paradox was going to end all of nWoD, because they felt it diluted the World of Darkness Brand and caused to much confusion. Instead, they've let us repackage it as Chronicles of Darkness to remove any and all hints of connection between the two."
The implications being very much, "Paradox had big plans for oWoD, and were not thrilled with having anything even remotely close to confusion going on as to what WAS World of Darkness and what was New World of Darkness and how they were different." (Basically a Star Wars EU issue.)
Edit: Looking back, I can't seem to find specifically where I read that Paradox was thinking of canceling the nWoD. It could be that I am not remembering correctly or was pointed / told such by someone else and then just sort of took it for granted / at face value. I'll admit, I wasn't exactly super thrilled at the time from the whole 'shift focus to anywhere but NA'. Which I might be biased, you know, living in NA and all and having supported Onyx and by extension White Wolf through the times when they literally had to spin off all operations into Onyx because otherwise CCP was just going to let everything sit and rot.
That being said, it may have been in one of the videos, which I won't be able to access until later this evening when I get home.
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NonSequtur
a body
I'd love to see how this plan ends up effective without resorting to tactics fundamentally similar to those of the Union.
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
Sure, except where the Archmages actually are literally rewriting history like some kind of cosmic Wikipedia edit-war.
History?
I'm sorry. The world began in 1962. Everything else is a false history, a lie made up by the god-kings of reality who've got us so fooled that we even believe that magic has a longer history. You can't trust anyone who was born before that. They were made as clay dolls, puppets of the Exarchs who have words inside their heads.
The Cuban Missile Crisis is the scars of the Fall in the timeline. I have proof, you see. It's all to do with the numerology of the headlines covering the crisis. The news records the hidden truth, even though it's covered up - because as we all know, numbers never lie. JFK is the echo of a would-have-been Oracle who failed to get into the Supernal - of course, the Seers had him killed because he remembered fragments of the world-that-was.
And the mockery that the Exarchs imposed on one of the Queens of Atlantis, stripping her power and wisdom and leaving her transcendent beauty as a scar to cover her true nature - well, that was cruel beyond words. If you find the original prints of some of Marilyn Monroe's movies, though, you can find clues that should lead you to one of her palaces. The Pantechnicon is looking for them, too. They realise the nature of movies and how they - as moving pictures - can trap a record of the soul.