- Location
- Reno Nv
Well, at least Kislev is more than just a speed bump for the next chaos invasion.
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
- Start date
- Mature
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy intrigue happens male protagonist ck2 quest belief stronk count of cannons drunken wisdom foes in the shadows graf of guns (guns) if you have a question check the front page first it begins... mountain vietnam ogres paranoia rising unseen enemies everywhere use the search function before asking waifu wars wake the bull
Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
I think the cherry on top is how Katterin is going to die as a hated despot and tyrant, and that's going to be her good end. As long as Kisliv comes out of her reign, either from the civil war or her death from another cause, stronger than it was before, she'll consider it a win. That's all that matters to her now.
- Location
- Viet Nam
Wow that is... not as bad as human sacrifice so their soul is use to fuel forges of Hell so they can invade faster.
Remember being kill by normal human is the prefer method of death rather then being kill by Chaos worshiper since the soul is claim and eternal torment yada yada.
Remember being kill by normal human is the prefer method of death rather then being kill by Chaos worshiper since the soul is claim and eternal torment yada yada.
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
I mean, unless you are Boyars you can't argue with results and how they have made Kislev stronger and more capable of fighting off the constant Chaos attacks.
You know, when you put it that way, the brewing rebellion against Katterin looks significantly more reasonable.
We do what we must
Because we can
For the good of all of us
Except the ones who are dead
But there's no sense crying
Over every mistake
You just keep on trying
Till you run out of cake
And the science gets done
And you make a neat gun
For the people who are
Still alive
More like this.
To be fair, That's only if the Bokha win.
If Alexandra wins the civil war that follows Kattarin's death and Tzar Mattrin Ursus ascends the Throne.
Kattarin will become the Mother of All Kislev.
Unless of course everything goes to shit in the Civil War and Alexandra von Hohenzollern ascends as Tzarina.
What happens then is up for grabs.
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NCRTrooper
Wishing For A Nuclear Winter
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eh, if the ones who are rebelling against her had their way, Kislev would be significantly weaker than it is now, with no centralized army, blackpowder weapons, a defensive alliance with the Empire, rebuilt infrastructure, and a centralized pantheon that's seemingly made the gods of said pantheon stronger.
As I said way back in the thread, she's essentially a female Peter the Great. with all the good and bad things such a thing implies.
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- Location
- United States
Yeah, Kattarin is very, very cursed from the prospective of an individual. She was pushing through harsh reforms before her husband died, but after...that broke her. Everything: the people, the cities, the slaves, the weapons, the Bokha, the cults, her children; all of them are just ingredients to create a more powerful, unified Kislev. To be fair, it is working...for now. Will it continue to do so when the new Tzar/Tzarina isn't the most powerful Ice Witch seen in basically forever; the one who personally cowed and murdered and shaped all of these things into the new vision of Kislev? Who can tell.
Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
That's certainly a possibility, but for that to happen every single one of Kattarin's children would have to die and Alexandra would have to want to ascend. Which...is actually a choice I could see her make in that situation. The whole reason Frederick married Natasha at the beginning was to secure an alliance with Kisliv in the event of another Chaos Invasion, ensuring that Kisliv is stable to repel another Chaos Invasion by being their leader is well within Alexandra's logical reasoning. It would certainly put Frederick in some political hot water if it happens though. If.
- Location
- Germany
I mean, barring extremely weird coincidences, it will only be a matter of time until Kattarin wins.
All of her children and grandchildren are married in Erengrad, Kislev, Praag or Southern Kislev. This not only gives her the best possible farmland in the country, but also completely cuts off the rebelling nobles in the north from all sources of outside trade and help.
Erengrad is under her families control, after she removed the former nobility. This allows her to monopolize the sea trade and the navy in Kislev. The south borders on the Ostermark and a tiny bit of Talabecland. This part is secured by the treaties (Northern Trident and Blue Steel Concordat).
Ostland is married to her and more or less supplies her with the things she needs to accelerate Kislev's centralization of power. Weapons, technology, resources and political allies.
The north is cut off. They cannot expand north or east (for obvious reasons) and will inevitably be outpaced by Kattarin's superior economy.
The only person in court not married is Alexandra and for good reasons.
Leading the secret police of this effective police state means, that Kattarin cannot allow her loyalty to be compromised.
Furthermore, any noble family married to her would gain diplomatic access to Ostland and thereby obtain the chance to break Kattarin's monopoly on weapons, trade and farming technology.
All in all, she made some very good moves and secured Alexandra's willing loyalty to the point where I don't believe she will come back one her own. (barring extreme circumstances)
While I'm not happy about it, I'm okay with it, since all of Frederick's children managed to make something of themselves and paved their own future.
I'm alright with it, as long as she is happy.
A Kislev forged and lead by Kattarin is infinitely safer for her to stay in then one plagued by constant raids and impotence.
No matter how despicable the means are.
All of her children and grandchildren are married in Erengrad, Kislev, Praag or Southern Kislev. This not only gives her the best possible farmland in the country, but also completely cuts off the rebelling nobles in the north from all sources of outside trade and help.
Erengrad is under her families control, after she removed the former nobility. This allows her to monopolize the sea trade and the navy in Kislev. The south borders on the Ostermark and a tiny bit of Talabecland. This part is secured by the treaties (Northern Trident and Blue Steel Concordat).
Ostland is married to her and more or less supplies her with the things she needs to accelerate Kislev's centralization of power. Weapons, technology, resources and political allies.
The north is cut off. They cannot expand north or east (for obvious reasons) and will inevitably be outpaced by Kattarin's superior economy.
The only person in court not married is Alexandra and for good reasons.
Leading the secret police of this effective police state means, that Kattarin cannot allow her loyalty to be compromised.
Furthermore, any noble family married to her would gain diplomatic access to Ostland and thereby obtain the chance to break Kattarin's monopoly on weapons, trade and farming technology.
All in all, she made some very good moves and secured Alexandra's willing loyalty to the point where I don't believe she will come back one her own. (barring extreme circumstances)
While I'm not happy about it, I'm okay with it, since all of Frederick's children managed to make something of themselves and paved their own future.
I'm alright with it, as long as she is happy.
A Kislev forged and lead by Kattarin is infinitely safer for her to stay in then one plagued by constant raids and impotence.
No matter how despicable the means are.
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Restalaan
What do you mean i am not a real cowboy?
Well, that's assuming the dice rolls for them goes well. It certainly can go sideways if the dice decides to add a little spice to it.
But even on a bare minimum roll, Kattarin achieved her objective by raising the standard of living and infrastructure that the Boyars have to acknowledge and accept because it's too good not to go about with. Which is a great thing.
The brewing civil war...not so much and it's Kattarin thing to settle it, bloodily and painfully. So fingers crossed and hopefully she earns total victory that it solidifies her rule to the point they're unassailable.
But even on a bare minimum roll, Kattarin achieved her objective by raising the standard of living and infrastructure that the Boyars have to acknowledge and accept because it's too good not to go about with. Which is a great thing.
The brewing civil war...not so much and it's Kattarin thing to settle it, bloodily and painfully. So fingers crossed and hopefully she earns total victory that it solidifies her rule to the point they're unassailable.
I mean, if all her reforms get torn down because she's tainted them by association then it's questionable whether anything she did was worth it. That would be the real kicker; succeeding in your goals only for it all to be unraveled when you die because you kept going "the ends justify the means" and lost sight of how the means determine where you end up.
Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
This is the curse of having brilliant and powerful leaders, they aren't one of kind, they aren't always once-in-a-generation, but everyone gets so used to having a powerful leader to follow that once they're gone, whether by natural causes or are killed, the ones left are never enough to pick up all the slack. Kattarin is certainly doing a fair job of ensuring her children are in strong positions to pick up from, but it's always a question of will it be enough?
Well, if Alexandra ascends to Kisliv's throne, Frederick Hohenzollern, Elector Count of Ostland of Sigmar's Empire, would be the father of the Tzarina. Or in other words, the nominal leader of the nation is the daughter of a foreign prince. It could easily be spun as Freddy making plays to turn Kisliv into an Imperial Province, or being part of a plan to cut the Northern Trident off from the rest of the Empire. Those would be the most severe accusations, but there would be a lot of discontent among the peoples of the Empire and Kisliv, from nobles to peasants. Politics aren't about the realities of the situation and rumors are unconstrained by logic.
Restalaan
What do you mean i am not a real cowboy?
Eh, we were shown in her interlude that the Boyars have accepted the roads, weapons, and even utilizing the pantheons that she revived as a way to gain political clout. So I doubt everything is going to be torn down or undone.
Which is what Kattarin aimed for and willingly accept it.
hmmmm depends on how Machiavellian her sons are willing to be if you ask me, blame everything bad on the previous administration fix the worst steps backwards and bask as the people view you as a better voice for the people despite fully supporting most if not everything they did to set you up.
Annatar
Lord of Gifts
- Location
- Pittsburgh
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Unless whoever comes after ger both politically aligned with her and has a good enough grip on power, it's almost certain most if not all of her reforms are getting thrown out the window the second she's dead and buried. The nobility, even the ones allied with her won't like so much of their power being taken by the centralized government and it would be easy to get them on your side if you promise a return to form for them.
- Location
- Germany
Point is: this is the best possible time for a civil war and centralization, if there ever was one.
The Empire has a defensive and non-aggression pact with Kislev.
The Greenskins are south.
The Beastmen are taken care of by the Empire.
The Dwarfs got a new hold to the east.
The Trolls are to the north and therefore the nobles problem.
And the entire Norscan coast collective moved away. I guess they are currently fighting the Norscan-Dwarf/Old-One Norscan alliance?
I wouldn't be surprised if Chaos were to focus on that, because having an active Slann camping at your spawn point is very bad.
The longer she is in power the more used the people will be to the changes made by her and the harder it is to dislodge said changes. The longer the Norscan are a no-show the more time she has.
The Empire has a defensive and non-aggression pact with Kislev.
The Greenskins are south.
The Beastmen are taken care of by the Empire.
The Dwarfs got a new hold to the east.
The Trolls are to the north and therefore the nobles problem.
And the entire Norscan coast collective moved away. I guess they are currently fighting the Norscan-Dwarf/Old-One Norscan alliance?
I wouldn't be surprised if Chaos were to focus on that, because having an active Slann camping at your spawn point is very bad.
The longer she is in power the more used the people will be to the changes made by her and the harder it is to dislodge said changes. The longer the Norscan are a no-show the more time she has.
Fredrick is not looking forward to trying on the trial of Ursun to prove his worth.
But damn would it be worth it to have our grand-niece ride a big-ass polar bear.
taovkool
Forever Gone
- Location
- The Library, Department of General Works
It's Warhammer.
The answer is unfortunately and unquestionably 'yes'.
....Those might be the only mounts that can support an ogre.
Canonically ogres ride Rhinoxen, stat wise they're fucking terrifying (and in mordheim lore have to be physically wrestled by their riders or they won't submit... and probably will wound if not straight up kill you, orgre or otherwise)
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