It's important that there are niches for the various deities, though there can be overlap so that followers, priests, etc. of one god, can work with and aid the followers of others in certain areas.

As has been mentioned in 'Other Gods' piety action in recent turns, "Verena is the Goddess of Knowledge, Science, Law and Justice" and Myrmidia, on top of being a war goddess is, "a Goddess of Wisdom, Beauty, and Honor, and perhaps just Civilization".

Freddy is working out the kinks of Ostland law. That seems right up Verena's alley. Even after the mess that the current laws are is finally finished, a goddess of Law is a good thing to keep it from becoming a tangled mess again.

Frederick did note that either goddess might be suited for the purposes of Ostland engineers. If that printing press we bought is reproduced we'll probably start making more books. Expansion of knowledge, science, etc. is Verena's turf and wisdom is Myrmidia's.


We have a school of gunnery and engineering in Ostland, but if Verena/Myrmidia and knowledge/wisdom/etc. become more valued perhaps that could lead to a proper university in one of the provinces of the Northern Trident sometime in the future.

Ulric and Sigmar are war gods and venerated by martial types, but there's room for Myrmidia in that part too. Potential for synergy, even. The warhammer fantasy wiki I looked at indicates she's more about the art and science of war.


I don't doubt there will be some Ulricans and Sigmarites that push back, regardless. But it could be worth it.
Niches are fine, I was more pointing out how it might set back other projects if we tried to intervene.

As for the rest...
While the option to investigate Myrmidia and Verena describes Myrmidia as "a Goddess of Wisdom, Beauty, and Honor, and perhaps just Civilization," Tome of Salvation does not. Nor does Sigmar's Heirs, WHFRP 1st ed Core or WHFRP 2nd ed Core.
Rather, these books name Verena as the Goddess of Wisdom. It's why Verena's main symbol is the Owl(Myrmidia's symbol is the Eagle, which is one of the smaller distinctions that keeps Myrmidia from being a complete Athena copy).
As such, the fluff of the option where Freddy tries to learn what Verena and Myrmidia are about is more an indication that Freddy doesn't know a whole lot about Myrmidia(and possibly Verena to some extent) than a statement about what Myrmidia actually is about.

And the cults do not work well together. It's why Emperor Magnus created the Grand Conclave(for them to work out their issues in a neutral setting) to begin with. Shit like there being strong questions asked to the Myrmidians why so many of their compatriots were part of a foreign conspiracy? That's a positively tame response to something like the Magrittans packing up en-masse.
It's also why most military commanders keep their troops segregated(Tome of Salvation page 115).
 
Bleh, didn't know that about Wolfila. It could have been Wolfila's son, but maybe not. If this were a different province I could just say that no one knows that fact cause its been ages, but this is Ostland. They'd probably know. Or maybe they might have made up what happened because there were no survivors. Guhgh. I'll look into things.
 
Bleh, didn't know that about Wolfila. It could have been Wolfila's son, but maybe not. If this were a different province I could just say that no one knows that fact cause its been ages, but this is Ostland. They'd probably know. Or maybe they might have made up what happened because there were no survivors. Guhgh. I'll look into things.
I'm personally of the belief that it was Wolfila's son, fathers name their sons after themselves all the time. Maybe the name Wolfila can have a dual meaning to the Ostlanders, meaning that you are either destined for greatness or for failure, just like the other two Wolfilas.
 
Niches are fine, I was more pointing out how it might set back other projects if we tried to intervene.
.

I'm not sure. If we actively sent out notice that we're looking for more Myrmidian clergy (more than those already in the province for the 5% of our population that are Myrmidia worshipers) or something it might raise some eyebrows, but if we simply don't discourage other Myrmidia/Verena worshipers from coming to Ostland and see an uptick coming here (because of Ostland's reputation, if other provinces start putting pressure on Myrmidia/Verena worshipers, etc.) it will just be considered more Ostland/Hohenzollern weirdness in general rather than Freddy thumbing his nose at everyone. Clergy of the Conclave that would look poorly on Myrmidians going to Ostland probably already look poorly at Ostland for its differences in religion, anyway.



I'm personally of the belief that it was Wolfila's son, fathers name their sons after themselves all the time. Maybe the name Wolfila can have a dual meaning to the Ostlanders, meaning that you are either destined for greatness or for failure, just like the other two Wolfilas.

Even if there's a positive association with the name there might still be that negative one, and if there is a negative one then those that have an axe to grind with the Hohenzollerns will take advantage and whisper.
 
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Koumiss is a drink of Ungol origin, we likely won't be able to gain access to it until a decent population of Ungols move to our territory, since the majority of the Kislevites in Ostland are likely Gospodar.
Fermented horse milk is a bit of a niche interest anyway.
Bit difficult to ship around.
I'm not sure. If we actively sent out notice that we're looking for more Myrmidian clergy (more than those already in the province for the 5% of our population that are Myrmidia worshipers) or something it might raise some eyebrows, but if we simply don't discourage other Myrmidia/Verena worshipers from coming to Ostland and see an uptick coming here (because of Ostland's reputation, if other provinces start putting pressure on Myrmidia/Verena worshipers, etc.) it will just be considered more Ostland/Hohenzollern weirdness in general rather than Freddy thumbing his nose at everyone. Clergy of the Conclave that would look poorly on Myrmidians going to Ostland probably already look poorly at Ostland for its differences in religion, anyway.





Even if there's a positive association with the name there might still be that negative one, and if there is a negative one then those that have an axe to grind with the Hohenzollerns will take advantage and whisper.
Eh, as we've learned in matters of faith by now the best route is to just let things be for a few years, so it fades out of public perception and they can make a reapproachment from a less problematic angle.

On our part we do nothing. Just continue investing in the Street of Steel and Salkaten port and the community of the faith would prosper by proximity. Some of them would probably convert to Imperial gods along the way, but again, not our problem.
 
Small question. Would we need to use an action to get Oskana war ready? Like armored and battle trained? Or did the Ice bear training cover that? Secondly would Fred need to train with her as I assume fighting on a griffon is vastly different than fighting on a horse.

We might want to look into that soonish.
 
That's another one of the 'drowning in omake ideas for expansion on background/side-scene things' in my folder. It's happened, I just haven't been able to spare any writing for it. Especially with me gunning the engine on Brink quest again. I can only type so much per day, with so much energy, before the arm pains start again. And, well, writers block sometimes, ya know? She's trained, but doesn't have any armor made just yet.
 
Small question. Would we need to use an action to get Oskana war ready? Like armored and battle trained? Or did the Ice bear training cover that? Secondly would Fred need to train with her as I assume fighting on a griffon is vastly different than fighting on a horse.

We might want to look into that soonish.
Griffons tend to be pretty tough creatures in general so getting her armored hasn't been on top of list though she is trained, if not as well as big Magnus' griffon since he can afford to get an elf to help with said training. Do agree armoring her would require a personal action as either Freddy or some dwarf master makes good battle armor that protects her without weighing her down too much or getting in the way of any easy movement like flying.

It is likely unless a big military engagement seems likely to involve Ostland sometime soon it won't come up or after we finish current personal projects.
 
I'm not sure. If we actively sent out notice that we're looking for more Myrmidian clergy (more than those already in the province for the 5% of our population that are Myrmidia worshipers) or something it might raise some eyebrows, but if we simply don't discourage other Myrmidia/Verena worshipers from coming to Ostland and see an uptick coming here (because of Ostland's reputation, if other provinces start putting pressure on Myrmidia/Verena worshipers, etc.) it will just be considered more Ostland/Hohenzollern weirdness in general rather than Freddy thumbing his nose at everyone. Clergy of the Conclave that would look poorly on Myrmidians going to Ostland probably already look poorly at Ostland for its differences in religion, anyway.
We were already kind of doing the first part what with our inviting Estalians fleeing their country from marauding agents of evil. It's part of the reason why we now have the Street of Steel.

We could try to do another "your loss, my gain" thing and spit in the Sigmarite/Ulrican push to reduce the Myrmidian influence network in the Empire by inviting them in but I can't imagine the Sigmarite and Ulrican clergy would be pleased by this.
Granted, we could probably get away with it due to Freddy being Freddy but annoying the two most powerful religions in the Empire might lower our odds of getting Arthur's order of the Garden or the Ostlander branch of the Esmereldan faith represented at future Conclaves any time soon(or increase it if the southern Cult of Morr approves of our being sympathetic to Tilean/Estalian influences in the Empire).

Also, kind of hard to tell if people are doing secret society stuff without heavy surveillance or luck. What with the existence of such a society being secret and all.
Your statement seems to be "actively recruiting might be bad but not stopping them is probably harmless."
I don't see what argument this levies against my original post of "we are already letting Myrmidians in but inviting the ones getting pressured by the Sigmarites/Ulricans might tick off the Sigmarites/Ulricans."

This might be a case where we are in agreement.
Fermented horse milk is a bit of a niche interest anyway.
Bit difficult to ship around.
Bring herd to store.
Add time before shelf life starts.
 
Guide to Ostland: Wulfenburg Temples
Guide to Ostland: Wulfenburg Temples
There is lots to see and describe within the provincial capital of Ostland but perhaps to the pious the most important is likely it's temples, and while Wulfenburg's temples may not be grand effigies of faith like seen in the south in recent years they have still been built up to degree and quality that none could gainsay them. For all that it is known the count was once quite impious and his actions questionable to many Imperials his heavy patronize to the various cults proves his faith and support for one of the pillars that make the Empire strong.

The tallest temple in Wulfenburg is no doubt the one to Sigmar and like many of it's kind possesses various tall towers, bells, and high quality architecture most likely built up by dwarf architects. While not as large or imposing as the Great Cathedral within Altdorf it is still considered the center of the Sigmarite faith within Ostland and the temple with the most foot-traffic in all of Wulfenburg on a daily basis considering most citizens of the city view Sigmar as their primary god. Most Ostlander nobles and many peasants will also make the journey to the temple at least once in their lives, it is seen as a natural visitation spot for many pilgrims, and of course has it's own cultural additions that makes it stand out compared to other temples of Sigmar across Empire. Inside the temple there can be found two large mosaics dedicated to the most significant events Sigmar had on the province before it was known as Ostland and simply the land the ancient Udoses roamed.

The first depicts Sigmar fighting alongside the last great Udosian king, Wolfila, to relieve the siege against the ancient capital that once sat on a cliff overlooking the Sea of Claws from the Norsii and driving them from their shores, an act of which earned Wolfila's eternal gratitude for saving his tribe from extinction and pledging the Udoses to Sigmar. The second is the tale of how after the Empire was formed Sigmar once more came to Ostland's aid and fought alongside Wolfila, now count, against a terrible dragon that ravaged the province and which the other electors and their armies were afraid to fight. It is these two events that priests will most often speak of to their congregation of Simgar's glory and many suspect is the reason why in northern lands surrounded by those who lean towards worship of Ulric, Taal and Rhya why in Ostland, or at least in it's capital, it is Sigmar who is worshiped with a degree of devotion not often seen in the north of Empire. Many are those who prayed before these mosaics giving thanks to Sigmar for ancient deeds, giving offerings before, and hearing tales they likely already heard countless times before.

An importance historical note is the fact that originally the temple began as an outgrowth of the Witch Hunter's original incarnation's, the Order of the Silver Hammer, makeshift temple. In time the temple would become more officious and 'modern' as the ages passed until it has become what it is today. The priests are likely to mention this fact and how the Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar came to be under their founder Wolfgart Krieger, of whom the city is named after.

After Sigmar's temple it is no surprise that the local temple of Ulric is the next largest and sees the second highest amount of visitors. Like most temples of Ulric the one in Wulfenburg is more fortress than a house of worship and arguably even more so in a place standing within what was once known as the Forest of Shadows. Large, square-walled buildings protecting a fortified inner sanctum and designed to quarter great companies of warriors and hold off sieges, and of course their own version of the Flame of Ulric no matter how poor the comparison to the original in Middenheim. Within, there is as much training and preparation for war as there is prayer. When they are not fighting, the Ulricans loudly and boisterously proclaim their god's name in their congregations and admonish those too weak or cowardly to fight the Wolf God's enemies. It is suspected that if Wulfenburg was ever invaded after the castle it is the temple of Ulric that would be the hardest to breach. From here the Ulrician faith is centered in Ostland, where the vast majority of citizens are followers, and like most temples in Ostland has been built up further in recent years due to the patronize of count despite being a Sigmarite himself. This is only right for when he was still a man Sigmar's god was Ulric and thus deserves respect.

It is here that the local White Wolves chapterhouse is located when not hunting down enemies of the Empire and where many pilgrims and many regular citizens will stop by once in their lives.

Visitors should be aware that due to the short distance between the two temples it is quite common to hear shouting matches between the cults in their never-ending rivalry of who is the better god between Sigmar and Ulric, and even a few small brawls break out from time to time. Patrolling guards long used to this state of affairs have grown quite adept at breaking up these fights and to the average citizen has just become another part of everyday life like the near constant explosions coming from the Gunnery and Engineering School.

Alongside Sigmar and Ulric the god with the biggest presence in Wulfenburg is without a doubt Morr. Near the main wall surrounding the city, similar to Kislev City, an entire section of the city has been sectioned off to hold the largest Garden of Morr in all the Empire and just outside of it is the first official temple of Morr in the Empire as well. It is here that the worship of Morr within Ostland is centered, arguably the wider Empire as well, and where the Order of the Garden was born under the leadership of the son of the count, Arthur von Hohenzollern. From tragedy caused by the Ostland Vampire War was the province quite eager to bring in followers of Morr to help defend their homes and has become so apart of everyday life Morr is naturally honored alongside whatever god one favors with equal respect. From their temple citizens from all walks of life visit to hear the priests' sermons, give over their passed loved ones so that proper rituals might take place, and where the dreams and nightmares of countless can hopefully be read.

One thing many will notice when they visit the black-stoned temple is the large number of ravens that have taken roost atop it alongside the stone ones built there. Whether this is simply due to the intentional design of temple being attractive to the nesting birds or a sign of Morr's favor none can say for sure.

Outside of the city itself and in the nearby forest itself one can find a grove dedicated to Taal and Rhya that has not seen proper use till recently with the victory over the former master of the Forest of Shadows. Here and in similar holy sites across the province the Lord of the Wilds and his wife are shown due respect, though the Hierarchs of both can usually be found in one close to Wulfenburg. While few of the city visit the site many rural citizens visit to honor both gods and despite having no official temple, for no made-man structure could be a better temple than the wilds itself, the cult of Taal and Rhya have still received support from the count and in recent times have had a number of ogre followers seeking to learn more of the married gods. Despite the still great deal of danger within Ostland's forest the cults are working hard to take back what has been for too long a haven for the enemies of man one tree at a time.

Similar to Morr there is another god in Ostland that is almost universally praised and within Wulfenburg holds the greatest and first temple of it's kind in the world. The Grand Kitchen of Ostland and the god of Hearth and Home Esmeralda, for while most of her existence she has been mainly the chief deity of the halflings of the Moot in recent times man and ogre have come to welcome her and her tenants into their lives. More restaurant than place of worship the Grand Kitchen is still no doubt a temple for those within praise Esmeralda in the best way they can, the serving and eating of food in a safe comfortable setting. It is here one can find man, ogre, halfling, and dwarf in greatest number intermingling in peace while partaking of the cooking of the various chefs who act as the building's priests. It is here that the Esmeraldan faith is centered, the lesser Great Kitchens are based off of, and where main pious Esmeraldans wrote the Liber Esmeralda and their High Priestess was chosen. Despite it being a very young cult compared to most in the Empire it is a fast rising one and many suspect in a few generations time it will come to spread outside of Ostland's borders.

Located centrally in Wulfenburg is the temple of Shallya which acts as place of worship, sanitarium, and hospice all in one where the followers of the Goddess of Mercy and Healing seek to ease the suffering of all they can. Thanks to support of the count in providing a great deal of funds, the close relationship with the growing cult of Esmeralda and Order of the Garden, and their own tireless work you would be hard-pressed to find a person in Wulfenburg who has not benefited directly due to the Shallyans work. The Shallyans have even set up several smaller satellite temples spread throughout the city, as funded by the count over time. This allows them to better serve more people rather than demand they all come to one place. Within these halls sermons are second to their duties, for all they preform many, with countless coming to them to tend to illness or injury, assist in childbirth, caring for those who can no longer do so themselves, bringing what peace they can to those suffering from madness, and various other noteworthy causes. Thanks to their close relationship with the current High Priestess of Esmeralda the cult enjoys a great deal of healthy foods to give those under their care, the poor and homeless, and any in need of a good meal to ease their pains. Naturally the Shallyans work closely with the cult of Morr, for Morr is the father of Shallya, with the former providing peace to the living and the latter taking over when they pass into Morr's Realm. Though due to the rise of the Order of the Garden it is not odd to see priests of both cults being found in the other's respective temples providing their own skills in serving the various citizens of Ostland.

With such close cooperation between the cults of the Father and the Daughter many wonder when the Mother will be seen as openly as well...

Located by the southern docks by the river stands a temple of Manann which while not the equal of the one built in Salkaten is still worthy of a temple built in a provincial capital. With river trade being the lifeblood of the Empire as a whole and Wulfenburg itself split in two by the Wolf's Run it is no surprise most river sailors stop by the temple of the god of oceans and rivers to pay their respects and hopefully stave off his wrath, though the latter is less often seen in said rivers. The temple itself is unique in that it is a large converted trading barge that floats in the middle of the Wolf's Run to be closer to Manann and one must reach by boat from the docks. Inside stands a large statue of the King of the waves in all his glory and priests go about speaking sermons to his faithful. Rumor has it before it docked itself permanently in Wulfeburg the temple sailed freely up and down the rivers of the Empire, and still could if the priests wished it to be. Considering the importance of both the sea and rivers in Ostland Manann naturally has a large following among those who make their living with both.

While not as common or as widely worshiped as Imperial gods the gods of Kislev can still be seen in Ostland due to the large number of Kislevite migrants and descendants, and of course the close relationship between two countries due to marriage of Ostland's count to the Tarzinas' sister. Within places with the highest number of said citizens such as Wulfenburg, Salkalten, and Schonfeld one can find a small temple to the Widow and by proxy the rest of the Kislevite pantheon due to being her children. While many Imperials may dislike foreign gods and priests within the Empire as long as they keep the peace and are no friend to Ruinous Powers they are tolerated, mostly.

Throughout the city even the minor gods unique to the province can be seen in small ways. In the main market place there is a small shrine to Skalor that has become tradition for traders to pray before and give small offerings. Guvaur's imagery as commonplace as Ostland's flag, for they are practically one in the same. One can find at least one shrine to the various Ostland minor gods and even a few from outside the province somewhere within the city.

Possibly the least represented and widely worshiped gods in Ostland are Verena and Myrmidia. Verena due to lack of interest in most of northern Empire and Myrmidia the same but even more so recently due to suspicion of the cult in recent years. The temple of Verena in Wulfenburg is a small thing but still acts as a public library to all those honestly seeking knowledge and even courthouse to settle matters of justice, though usually only minor cases of the latter. The temple of Myrmidia is also on the small size but due to the actions of the Knights of Magritta it is also understaffed with very few priests, most not much more than senior acolytes, and it's lecturing theatres remain quiet most days. If not for a number of Estalian citizens within Wulfenburg many suspected the temple would be abandoned in due time due to lack of a congregation, also this large number of Estalian attendees has lead to the Estalian version of the cult to become dominant within Wulfenburg. Whether this state of affairs will change in the future if the count ever turns his patronize to these two cults as well most cannot say, however given their lower status compared to other cults it is likely said cults are praying that is the case.

Given the rise and success of Ostland since Magnus the Pious' rise to Emperor and uniting the Empire once more it is good to see that they have given thanks to the gods in turn for that success granted to them through their favored champion. As Ostland continues to grow strong and it's people rich one day it might construct temples equal to those in the southern Empire, for all that Ostlanders are a frugal and pragmatic people they fully recognize the wisdom in honoring those that assist them in the face of all that would see them destroyed. For faith is one of the pillars of the Empire and should be nurtured whenever possible.
 
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Hey look! More cool art from @Aleadrex! How cool is that!? I've spoilered it for size reasons, but don't you want to take a look inside....? It's really neat!


:wtf: ?

Wait.....

*scrutinizes face and holding the picture very close to my eyes*

...that ear though...

@torroar Why is our buddy Freddy looks like one of those Elgi bastards? He got those knife-ear like those pish-posh nobles from bloody Ulthuan!
 
Man that is an awesome picture! Also glad it involves Freddy mid-drink since at this point it would be weird to see him not drinking.:p
 
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