Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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bonebone said:
but if they have food , have ship ，Korne slanessh or tzeench will very happy, because nosca will have a big party . If i follow with your think , i fell give up is the best way
we not attack noscan , not mean they will not come. you know what are they. They Are all crazy
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I'm just saying fight them on the waves. Do not give them more Bloodshed than is necessary. Excess retaliation just invites further Excess in the form of perfect Chaos Warlords.
Yes, the current system of die rolling means the outcomes are subject to Change, but without too many successes, it tends to be mired in a Stagnant status quo.

So basically, don't court Khorne or Slaanesh. And don't let Tzeentch or Nurgle gain prominence over the other.

.

As a side-note, between the Bonelands Waaagh!! and the upcoming Dark Crusade of Centigor, now is not really the time for invading foreign lands.
 
Qeqre said:
I'm just saying fight them on the waves. Do not give them more Bloodshed than is necessary. Excess retaliation just invites further Excess in the form of perfect Chaos Warlords.
Yes, the current system of die rolling means the outcomes are subject to Change, but without too many successes, it tends to be mired in a Stagnant status quo.

So basically, don't court Khorne or Slaanesh. And don't let Tzeentch or Nurgle gain prominence over the other.

.

As a side-note, between the Bonelands Waaagh!! and the upcoming Dark Crusade of Centigor, now is not really the time for invading foreign lands.
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I agree with you , but we need a plan to north, after ten or twenty years, becaus norse dwarfs have a drak time . The Norse Dwarfs came under siege by the Norscan Chieftain
 
Andres110 said:
Vengeance. Not a practical goal, but that's not a bad thing. So long as it's all in-character it's a-ok. Well, except for the part where we're killing civilians. That's bad.
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Saying the Norscan have civilians is a slight misnomer, given the whole chaos worship and the constant raiding of themselves and others, plus the whole country being a snow covered wasteland where reality is thinner than most other place outside of the Chaoswastes. Can't forget the place being full of mutated monsters and beasts.

Honestly it's best to think of Norsca as less of a country and more of a fantasy deathworld in a similar vain to Avernus from EITD.

And given that the Warhammer world is already a fantasy deathworld that says something.
 
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Jack_Trade said:
Saying the Norscan have civilians is a bit of a misnomer, given the whole chaos worship and the constant raiding of themselves and others, plus the whole country being a snow covered wasteland where reality is thinner than most other place outside of the Chaoswastes. Can't forget the place being full of mutated monsters and beasts.

Honestly it's best to think of Norsca as less of a country and more of a fantasy deathworld in a similar vain to Avernus from EITD.

And given that the Warhammer world is already a fantasy deathworld that says something.
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To be fair, if I remember the lore right, the southern parts of Norsca can be fairly civilized given that they do trade with Marienburg and Kislev. The farther away from the Chaos Wastes they are, the less likely they are to be outright Chaos Worshippers, remember some Norscans actually worship Ulric and Manann.
 
bonebone said:
I agree with you , but we need a plan to north, after ten or twenty years, becaus norse dwarfs have a drak time . The Norse Dwarfs came under siege by the Norscan Chieftain
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Honestly we don't even know if that will happen at all. Besides, we would not know about it in-character, so there is no motivation for Frederick to start such a venture in the first place. Just let this go, even if we did it, some raiding would not affect anything going on at the other end of Norsca.
 
EyeOfSauron said:
To be fair, if I remember the lore right, the southern parts of Norsca can be fairly civilized given that they do trade with Marienburg and Kislev. The farther away from the Chaos Wastes they are, the less likely they are to be outright Chaos Worshippers, remember some Norscans actually worship Ulric and Manann.
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While true Southern Norsca is still Norsca and thus a monster infested shithole that probably gives the Drakwald a run for it's money.

Also I was given to understand the Norscan's worship of gods like Ulris and Manann, was either done in conjunction with their worship of the dark gods or was a lie to allow them to do trade with places like Marienburg/Kislev?
 
bonebone said:
I agree with you , but we need a plan to north, after ten or twenty years, becaus norse dwarfs have a drak time . The Norse Dwarfs came under siege by the Norscan Chieftain
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IIRC Thorgrim established contact with them some time ago.

Kislev stands stronger than it has in a long time and Karak Ungor has been reclaimed. The Norse Dwarves are probably less isolated than they were in Canon.

Gradual de-Chaosiffication should probably come in the form of Ulrican/Shallyan missionaries. And/or in trying to keep our part of the world squeaky clean while waiting for the Elves to finish their Waystone project.
EyeOfSauron said:
To be fair, if I remember the lore right, the southern parts of Norsca can be fairly civilized given that they do trade with Marienburg and Kislev. The farther away from the Chaos Wastes they are, the less likely they are to be outright Chaos Worshippers, remember some Norscans actually worship Ulric and Manann.
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The Southern tribes still raid though. And during Chaos Incursions, they still band together with the other Norscan tribes because refusing the call to arms is grounds for annihilation.

Also, one of Norsca's exports are slaves captured during raids. These are sold to anybody willing to buy them, usually in exchange for weapons.
 
ShyPerson said:
Honestly we don't even know if that will happen at all. Besides, we would not know about it in-character, so there is no motivation for Frederick to start such a venture in the first place. Just let this go, even if we did it, some raiding would not affect anything going on at the other end of Norsca.
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it will, beacause torror answered me.
Qeqre said:
IIRC Thorgrim established contact with them some time ago.

Kislev stands stronger than it has in a long time and Karak Ungor has been reclaimed. The Norse Dwarves are probably less isolated than they were in Canon.

Gradual de-Chaosiffication should probably come in the form of Ulrican/Shallyan missionaries. And/or in trying to keep our part of the world squeaky clean while waiting for the Elves to finish their Waystone project.

The Southern tribes still raid though. And during Chaos Incursions, they still band together with the other Norscan tribes because refusing the call to arms is grounds for annihilation.

Also, one of Norsca's exports are slaves captured during raids. These are sold to anybody willing to buy them, usually in exchange for weapons.
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For kiselv and kark ungor, I agree with you , but have a problem you maybe not found.
Both the Great War Against Chaos and the Battle of Icicle Pass took place in 2302 IC. It appears unlikely that Kraka Drak managed to send an army to help save Kislev and then go on to reestablish ties with the rest of the Karaz Ankor[4a][4b] while being under a decades-long underground siege by Valmir Aesling.[2a][3a] This could be a mistake by Games Workshop.
I dont know what is plan of torror, but i think dwarfs and kislev they dont know it , because i never see any message for norse dwarfs on the Rumor mill. If we know norse dwarf , it must have some news, but no! Nothing , even in the karak ungor , I not found a norse dwarf(maybe i lost it , i hope im wrong)

if dwarfs or kiselv never know norse dwarfs. They (norse dwars) will no any help. That is why I say need a plan for survey the north , let we know what happen on the norse dwarfs .
 
Crazy thought but how possible are sea mines with current tech level? We have already land made mines after all.

Would further make raiding us very hard for raiders.
 
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Massgamer said:
Crazy thought but how possible are sea mines with current tech level? We have already land made mines after all.

Would further make raiding us very hard for raiders.
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Probably not possible at our current tech level, land mines have existed in one form or another since the invention of gun powder. The main hurdles to making sea mines with our current tech, is making a container that won't rust and is water tight enough to keep the gun powder/fuses, a trigger mechanism that also won't rust in uselessness and way to stop it from being dragged away by the tide and fuck massive sea monsters.

Further more planting sea mine creates the risk of us accidentally sink a non-target ship (merchant, allied, our own ships, ect ect), which would give us political problem we really don't want.
 
bonebone said:
For kiselv and kark ungor, I agree with you , but have a problem you maybe not found.
Both the Great War Against Chaos and the Battle of Icicle Pass took place in 2302 IC. It appears unlikely that Kraka Drak managed to send an army to help save Kislev and then go on to reestablish ties with the rest of the Karaz Ankor[4a][4b] while being under a decades-long underground siege by Valmir Aesling.[2a][3a] This could be a mistake by Games Workshop.

I dont know what is plan of torror, but i think dwarfs and kislev they dont know it , because i never see any message for norse dwarfs on the Rumor mill. If we know norse dwarf , it must have some news, but no! Nothing , even in the karak ungor , I not found a norse dwarf(maybe i lost it , i hope im wrong)

if dwarfs or kiselv never know norse dwarfs. They (norse dwars) will no any help. That is why I say need a plan for survey the north , let we know what happen on the norse dwarfs .
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That part of the wiki article is wrong. 2302 is when Valmir Aesling mustered his second host after the first one was completely rebuffed.
Warriors of Chaos(7th edition) mention that The Norse Dwarves used cannons to bury his army beneath the ice, killing Valmir Aesling alongside most of his army, with the few elites who survived the avalanche spending decades(8th ed Warriors of Chaos gives a timeline of 2302 through 2390) fighting the Norse Dwarves in the tunnels.
By 2302, there was no "decades long siege" yet. There was this rando Norscan dude who mustered an army of a hundred thousand angry vikings that started their attack in the summer of 2302 and got massacred(bar a few really angry Chaos Warriors who survived).

Stone and Steel mentions the Norse Dwarves sent support through Ungruvalk in 2302, which it describes as an underground link from the Draksfjord to the river Dypvann with warded entrances on both sides(completed 2292).
Stone and Steel also mentions that Norse Dwarf forces sailed through to the Sea of Claws, harassed the forces of Chaos and made contact with the other Dwarves in 2302.

Given that the survivors of Valmir Aesling's army had barely even started to fight their way through the tunnels of Kraka Drak by 2302, it's not unrealistic for the Dwarves of Kraka Drak to have sent a few reinforcements to harass Asavar Kul's Chaos Incursion.
So no, there really is no canon conflict there beyond the personal skepticism of some wiki editor who needs to brush up on his/her critical reading skills.

Also, the article's [4a] reference doesn't mention the Norse Dwarves at all. And [4b] only mentions Thorgrim exchanging rings of Kinship with them rather than the other way around.
 
Qeqre said:
That part of the wiki article is wrong. 2302 is when Valmir Aesling mustered his second host after the first one was completely rebuffed.
Warriors of Chaos(7th edition) mention that The Norse Dwarves used cannons to bury his army beneath the ice, killing Valmir Aesling alongside most of his army, with the few elites who survived the avalanche spending decades(8th ed Warriors of Chaos gives a timeline of 2302 through 2390) fighting the Norse Dwarves in the tunnels.
By 2302, there was no "decades long siege" yet. There was this rando Norscan dude who mustered an army of a hundred thousand angry vikings that started their attack in the summer of 2302 and got massacred(bar a few really angry Chaos Warriors who survived).

Stone and Steel mentions the Norse Dwarves sent support through Ungruvalk in 2302, which it describes as an underground link from the Draksfjord to the river Dypvann with warded entrances on both sides(completed 2292).
Stone and Steel also mentions that Norse Dwarf forces sailed through to the Sea of Claws, harassed the forces of Chaos and made contact with the other Dwarves in 2302.

Given that the survivors of Valmir Aesling's army had barely even started to fight their way through the tunnels of Kraka Drak by 2302, it's not unrealistic for the Dwarves of Kraka Drak to have sent a few reinforcements to harass Asavar Kul's Chaos Incursion.
So no, there really is no canon conflict there beyond the personal skepticism of some wiki editor who needs to brush up on his/her critical reading skills.

Also, the article's [4a] reference doesn't mention the Norse Dwarves at all. And [4b] only mentions Thorgrim exchanging rings of Kinship with them rather than the other way around.
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thanks for your answer
|•'-'•)و✧
but we still no any news from norse dwarfs(っ◞‸◟c)
so I keep my part idea
make a plan , creat a small adventure group go to norse， help norse drwafs make a defence deal with kislev. I hope it will_:)τ」∠)_
 
Massgamer said:
Crazy thought but how possible are sea mines with current tech level? We have already land made mines after all.

Would further make raiding us very hard for raiders.
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I think the dwarfs would either have a good laugh at a very good joke, or they'd sit you down like the beardling they know you to be for suggesting something so so outrageously silly and explain it to you in the patient tones of one who has lived a thousand years and has devoted every second to being the best that there is at what he does.
 
China had RIVER mines(there was a variety of fusing options, mostly timed ones), but sea mines require such ridiculous coverage that its impossible to both build and deploy them on a practical level.
 
So ran across this piece of artwork, apparently based on some old White Dwarf art showing a massive Empire cannon manned by giants or something like that.


Warhammer - Giant Cannon
I have always been interested in high Fantasy Medieval environments - and particularly wanted to create a large scale outlandish piece. The original idea came from a old illustration I saw in a copy of White Dwarf from the early 90s - which depicted battlements and cannons being manned and reloaded by Giants working in service of the Empire.
The sheer number of assets required for such a scene also pushed my limits as an artist. I had a particular camera angle in mind for this image, and due to the position of the camera the foreground objects were created in a higher poly format with higher resolution textures than that of background objects.
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Now I know we are probably never going to make something that rediculously big, but I sort of wonder if we can't do a smaller version manned by Ogres at our major ports and Capital. Would certainly dissuade attackers.
 
Sinsystems said:
So ran across this piece of artwork, apparently based on some old White Dwarf art showing a massive Empire cannon manned by giants or something like that.




Now I know we are probably never going to make something that rediculously big, but I sort of wonder if we can't do a smaller version manned by Ogres at our major ports and Capital. Would certainly dissuade attackers.
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I think the illustration that the image is based on was of a giant cannon in Middenheim. Don't quote me on that though.
 
ShyPerson said:
I think the illustration that the image is based on was of a giant cannon in Middenheim. Don't quote me on that though.
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Well regardless of where it is, we can all agree that despite being a giant unwieldy gun that probably takes forever to reload that thing would be enough to make most enemy armies go "Yeah no lets not risk it" since it must have instance range.
 
Sinsystems said:
Now I know we are probably never going to make something that rediculously big, but I sort of wonder if we can't do a smaller version manned by Ogres at our major ports and Capital. Would certainly dissuade attackers.
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Well, there's the Ironblaster, which treats regular cannonballs as grapeshot and can fit an adult Dwarf with room to spare so we're probably talking about something on the level of the Great Turkish Bombard. If probably with a longer barrel length given that they used to be handguns made by(and for) Giants.

Our Titan Cannons might serve the function you're thinking about.
 
No, that is indeed a cannon from the Storm of Chaos Ulric-based booklet. Hang on, I've got that old thing around somewhere, lemme go look.

EDIT: Found it! Here we go:

Storm of Chaos Supplement said:
"We will make them pay in blood for every foot of ground they take. And do not forget, my lord, as well as the strength of men we have Ulric's Thunder."

Count Todbringer nodded, leaning out over the parapet to look down at the enormous wolf-mouthed cannon mounted upon the monstrous turntable on the level below. Sweating teams of dray horses strained in their harnesses as they dragged the gargantuan bronze behemoth around into a firing position. The weapon's hulking loader, a giant creature, fully eight times the height of a tall man, heftd one of the enormous siege gun's iron cannonballs, itself larger than a small cottage into the barrel as soot-stained gunners struggled with a multitude of powder bags. Great wooden ramps were constructed behind the gun to allow it to roll back into position after firing, and Count Todbringer, who had heard the weapon's mighty roar, knew to be somewhere else when it fired for fear of losing his hearing for days again.
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And here's the original art, scoured from a few seconds of googling so quality not assured.

 
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Qeqre said:
Well, there's the Ironblaster, which treats regular cannonballs as grapeshot and can fit an adult Dwarf with room to spare so we're probably talking about something on the level of the Great Turkish Bombard. If probably with a longer barrel length given that they used to be handguns made by(and for) Giants.

Our Titan Cannons might serve the function you're thinking about.
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Well I am thinking some kind of fixed artillery emplacement which would allow for something a bit bigger than the titan cannons. The main reason I would want something like that is because I would like for as much heavy long ranged firepower that is able to completely out range our enemies to the point that the enemy loses their biggest stuff before they even get in range of our other guns.
 
Sinsystems said:
Well I am thinking some kind of fixed artillery emplacement which would allow for something a bit bigger than the titan cannons. The main reason I would want something like that is because I would like for as much heavy long ranged firepower that is able to completely out range our enemies to the point that the enemy loses their biggest stuff before they even get in range of our other guns.
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And what I am saying is that the Titan Cannon/Ironblaster seems like it shares a weight class with these:

At which point range is more a matter of technological refinement(and possibly smaller ammo) than it is about making a larger cannon.
 
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