THRONE//FRINGE: Normal Human Mech-Girl Quest

Wait, the Margrave is the personality controlling the battle cruiser itself right? And he is able to manifest a form to interact with those inside of him? But he is also administrating over a sector in Fringe as the battlecruiser?

Sorry, which battlecruiser are you referring to? Do you mean the voidcruiser cyber-daemons that appeared at the beginning of the update? Those are defensive constructs of pure code that manifest themselves within the tapestry. It's Daemon Manifestation, a type of HOUSE//THRONES signature application which allows you to create free elements on your home territory but which cannot function outside because they are effectively reliant on your architecture to exist.

They were much more used in the Empire where everyone was functioning on the same Imperial codeset and drives.
 
Sorry, which battlecruiser are you referring to? Do you mean the voidcruiser cyber-daemons that appeared at the beginning of the update? Those are defensive constructs of pure code that manifest themselves within the tapestry. It's Daemon Manifestation, a type of HOUSE//THRONES signature application which allows you to create free elements on your home territory but which cannot function outside because they are effectively reliant on your architecture to exist.

They were much more used in the Empire where everyone was functioning on the same Imperial codeset and drives.
Oh man I'm mixing up everything.

I didn't know that the Margrave was it's own thing, I was confusing it with the Marzban of the Order of the Knights Quixote, which itself I thought was a giant battleship that was assisting Arachne against the battle with the King of Hearts.

Though is the Margrave the personality of a giant ship when they refer to its Court being inside of it?
 
Oh man I'm mixing up everything.

I didn't know that the Margrave was it's own thing, I was confusing it with the Marzban of the Order of the Knights Quixote, which itself I thought was a giant battleship that was assisting Arachne against the battle with the King of Hearts.

Though is the Margrave the personality of a giant ship when they refer to its Court being inside of it?

No worries. The Marzban is a memory ghost manifesting as a dronesuit pilot within The Last Joust scenario on Don Hidalgo's behalf. They are an attentuated interpretation of the hero Rostam from Shahnameh. Presumably since this is how the executable interprets Don Hidalgo's perk, they would appear as a voidcruiser in a realspace fight if Hidalgo activated his perk.

The Margrave is a hyperintelligence whose purpose was to maintain order inside and arbitrate disputes within THRONE//FRINGE at the time of Arachne Weaver's dream-memory, which was before the collapse. They present themselves as an eight-foot tall human to Arachne but their true form, at least as far as Arachne knows, is actually as the entire network of FTL network-connected palace rooms that make up Fringe's capital.
 
No worries. The Marzban is a memory ghost manifesting as a dronesuit pilot within The Last Joust scenario on Don Hidalgo's behalf. They are an attentuated interpretation of the hero Rostam from Shahnameh. Presumably since this is how the executable interprets Don Hidalgo's perk, they would appear as a voidcruiser in a realspace fight if Hidalgo activated his perk.

The Margrave is a hyperintelligence whose purpose was to maintain order inside and arbitrate disputes within THRONE//FRINGE at the time of Arachne Weaver's dream-memory, which was before the collapse. They present themselves as an eight-foot tall human to Arachne but their true form, at least as far as Arachne knows, is actually as the entire network of FTL network-connected palace rooms that make up Fringe's capital.
Ah alright. Is Fringe the full on Empire when it has a capital or just a sector of it?

And so we're currently viewing things through past Arachne's eyes within her dream and she caused Ishtar to not go up the ranks in Force//Quarantine through the Margrave, though this is the past. She still goes to serve under her afterwards in the present even when she didn't want to meet Ishtar in the Margrave's Court?
 
I get this feeling that the Margrave is encouraging an echo chamber full of sycophants in his court.

Can't really point to anything in particular as proof, it just... feels like it. He controls everything and everyone under him through generally subtle influence, disregards or discards anyone else. The (past) empire as a whole seems to certainly take the opinion of stamping out deviation rather than adapting to it, but the Margrave in particular feels like just that kinda guy. Pretty unsteady house of cards he's built (though not that House of Cards... probably).

The insight into the En Temporal Heresy is neat. Funny to think of the Empire made up of giant supermind reality-warping star gods flying around remaking everything, but the existential threat of the En Heresy is... one rando who sent himself back in time to bork the Empire's history, and may have exploded himself in the process. I suppose I expected something stranger and more exotic, as seems to be the norm in this story.

Time Travelers: always screwing everything up for everybody, since forever. :eyeroll:

Fucking around with hyperintelligences and acausality are risky when done right and even worse when done wrong. FORCE/QUARANTINE is so thorough and brutal on these issues because they're the exception to the general rule of if you can do it and succeed it's no big deal. Both of these have pretty catastrophic results when done without due care, and the results of that can have consequences all out of proportion with their benefit once you factor in the probability of success.

In general, the Empire cares a lot about time travel not because people might succeed, but because people almost invariably fail whenever it's time travel on large scales and the collateral damage of that failure tends to be extremely messy. If acausal time travel actually succeeded a lot, the Empire would: 1. have won, because that now means you can send energy from the future back into the past, which means you've defeated thermodynamics and entropy; 2. just built itself facilities at the beginning of the universe and set up FORCE/ONTOLOGY to keep itself in existence.

Ah alright. Is Fringe the full on Empire when it has a capital or just a sector of it?

And so we're currently viewing things through past Arachne's eyes within her dream and she caused Ishtar to not go up the ranks in Force//Quarantine through the Margrave, though this is the past. She still goes to serve under her afterwards in the present even when she didn't want to meet Ishtar in the Margrave's Court?

Fringe is a tiny chunk of the Empire. The Empire had occupied essentially the entire Milky Way as of Arachne's memories, although parts of it were still underdeveloped, had significant presences in neighboring dwarf galaxies, and was doing extragalactic expansion. The Empire's "capital" is called Central, which was literally the center of the galaxy.
There is a summary of what Central looked like written but I'll leave it up to @Cetashwayo how much he wants to share about it.
 
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Ah alright. Is Fringe the full on Empire when it has a capital or just a sector of it?

And so we're currently viewing things through past Arachne's eyes within her dream and she caused Ishtar to not go up the ranks in Force//Quarantine through the Margrave, though this is the past. She still goes to serve under her afterwards in the present even when she didn't want to meet Ishtar in the Margrave's Court?

Fringe is a sector. The Empire has many sectors: It was a galactic polity. Central was its capital, in the center of the Galaxy.

Don Hidalgo's executable is malfunctioning when it comes to Arachne because as the Celestial Nail pointed out in Alpha and Omega it functions by translating the mind of a subject to the new reality it creates (in this case, wacky gundam). Arachne's mind is a shattered mess of nested personalities, and so it broke her apart into pieces and tried to create the optimal configuration to not break the simulation and not break Arachne's psyche, including reconstituting a prior backup whose mangled and twisted remains was present deep inside the current Arachne's mind.

If Arachne Weaver (the alpha backup) had her full memories inside the simulation, even filtered, it would have dire consequences for everyone around her.

The Celestial Nail sealed those memories away from her for a reason, and the fact that this memory is leaking out now is not supposed to happen. The executable is acting like a can opener to the protected portions of Arachne's subconscious and forcing them open without her and the Celestial Nail's permission.
 
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"Center of the galaxy" huh?
If you were to describe it, would the phrase "hollowed out black hole" be involved?
 
And so we're currently viewing things through past Arachne's eyes within her dream and she caused Ishtar to not go up the ranks in Force//Quarantine through the Margrave, though this is the past. She still goes to serve under her afterwards in the present even when she didn't want to meet Ishtar in the Margrave's Court?

I think you should go back to the beginning and start reading again. It seems like you are missing a lot of the early character development that explained who Arachne is and her relationship with Ishtar. This interlude has a lot of references that are most easily understood and humorous when you have the proper context.

My understanding is that the version of Arachne we are familiar with is can be best understood as the reincarnation or child of the Arachne that is serving as the POV in this memory interlude. It seems as if the original Arachne was somehow twisted into some kind of horrific monster bent on destroying the collapsing remnants of the Empire. She (or a fragment of her) sought to take over a Weaver/Builder that had the mutilated form of an imprisoned Ishtar as a foundation. Something unknown happened (with the Celestial Nail involved) and the resulting entity that formed after a reboot was the Arachne that has been serving as the protagonist.
 
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And again if you are unsure about parts there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I'm not sure about this part" or "who is this person again", I am happy to answer. It is probably a better experience if you know what is going on rather than suffering in silent confusion :p

My understanding is that the version of Arachne we are familiar with is essentially the reincarnation / child of the Arachne that is serving as the POV in this memory interlude. It seems as if the original Arachne was somehow twisted into some kind of horrific monster bent on destroying the collapsing remnants of the Empire. She (or a fragment of her) sought to take over a Weaver/Builder that had the mutilated form of an imprisoned Ishtar as a foundation. Something unknown happened (with the Celestial Nail involved) and the resulting entity that formed after a reboot is the Arachne that has been serving as the protagonist.

Yup, more or less correct. Here are the current puzzle pieces:

Original Arachne (Alpha Backup/Arachne Weaver)

1. There was a vote option relating to Fringana, which was Axiom Corporation's major research facility and very fun place. This appears to be the origin of Arachne. Axiom appeared to want to experiment with creating god-beings, and Arachne was a failed prototype they stuck in a Weaver/builder.
2. The current set of updates. Arachne leaving Fringana and living With Ishtar, then leaving and living inside the Margrave's Palace.
3. The very first update's opening lines, which take place before the Collapse.
4. A vote option relating to the Nail, and the Collapse.
5. At some point, this Arachne killed Ishtar's mutilated form in a Weaver/Builder. She also received the title, Deathweaver.
6. At some point in the indeterminate past, something happened, and the original Arachne ceased to exist as a conscious being.

Current Arachne (Omega Backup)

1. Current Arachne activates not having any memories whatsoever, inside a chassis that appears to belong to Ishtar. She is immediately attacked by and ejects a Dragon Talon, which is a form of infohazardous entity unique to the Dragon, effectively the most powerful living being in the setting and the attack dog of the Emperor (to simplify things massively).
2. She finds Ishtar's remaining fragment inside her.
3. She creates numerous subminds and finds lot of fun games that appear to have been there already. She finds the Celestial Nail, which is some kind of birthmark she can't get rid of and it's very ominous.
4. She resurrects Ishtar, who tells her that she was killed by Arachne, or at least a past version of her. Ishtar explains that the talon was something she took into her willingly because the Dragon was asking for volunteers.
5. Arachne trusts a guy named Don Hidalgo. This turns out to be a bad idea.
6. Arachne finds out that the inside of her mind is weird and freaky and that she needs to get to the bottom of it, because her mind is functioning like an iceberg where large portions of her existence are unknown to her.
7. She trusts Don Hidalgo again. This is less of a bad idea, but doesn't really work out the way they hoped.
8. So she trusts him one more time and this time it works out a little bit better, but now everyone's in Gundam.

The Last Joust (Both Arachnes alive simultaneously)

9. Except that Arachne Weaver is not Current Arachne, who exists at first in the Last Joust only as a voice in Arachne Weaver's head. Ix-Chel and Diana are there. They were fragment voting options from the very beginning of the quest and now exist, somehow. Also, they are lovers of Arachne Weaver. This is meant to be confusing because as it turns out executables are very powerful! Powerful enough even to reorganize a shattered mind into a new shape no one recognizes.

11. This is a problem, because Current Arachne reacts to another version of her in a typically Imperial fashion, by plotting by Highlander rules how she is going to kill the alpha backup and regain a body.

10. The Celestial Nail explains some of this to both Arachnes, revealing that they're two separate backups. She then separates them apart so Omega Arachne, space gremlin that she is, doesn't kill her past self because she's territorial. She also explains to them her own origin: She, and the other void cylinders (the weird pinging hexagons that chased around Arachne's Drones) were another god-being attempt by the Axiom. So was the Concierge, one of the polities players have met. There are two others the players have not met that she mentions as well.

11. This allows Omega Arachne to take over joint-administrator control over the simulation she was granted by Don Hidalgo, who has absolutely no idea this is going on because he is busy doing pirate hijinks and playing a gacha game with historical heroes. Arachne Weaver continues on blissfully unaware she is effectively a dead woman walking and that her wives are dead too. Omega Arachne is now watching this like it's the Truman show and she gets to decide who lives or dies.

11. The simulation continues to fuck with Arachne Weaver, the alpha backup, now accidentally cracking open an actual historical memory of hers while she's sleeping. Arachne Weaver is experiencing the entire memory as a dream, which is very confusing to her as she thinks she is a gundam pilot, while the current Arachne is watching all of this from the outside in and is also confused and also fascinated by what appears to be an authentic memory of the Empire.

12. Yes, that means that the current Arachne knows that Weaver was effectively raised by Ishtar, and then betrayed Ishtar.
 
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That is a large revelation, I was up to speed knowing everything except those portions in the Alpha Backup section that was confusing everything I had read.

A lot of back and forth between Arachne and Ishtar huh.

I can't recall if Ishtar lost her memory banks or there was something about her being confused/angry on why current Arachne was approaching her after killing her.
 
I can't recall if Ishtar lost her memory banks or there was something about her being confused/angry on why current Arachne was approaching her after killing her.

Ishtar thought current Arachne was the Arachne who killed her when she woke up so she was disgruntled and suspicious. It took some convincing, time together and player votes to get her to cool off. Imagine you're resurrected by the person who executed you but they're like oh no that was the other me. In a universe with backups it's easier to believe but it still takes some time to get them to relax.

Ishtar's own memories are clearly messed with and purposely so: Axiom seems to have spitefully fucked with her. If it is spite; as @Fourthspartan56 points out the Axiom behaves with such an inhuman quasi-sapience their motives are not always clear.

They removed her face in such a way that even in the Last Joust she doesn't have one, by hardcoding it into her soul. She can't manifest one in any form; if she turned into a virtual dove, she would be missing a face. If she was a lion, she would be missing a face. Any form that requires a face, she can't make it.

This appears to be an Axiom thing because at the beginning of the first That Memory Called Empire update Arachne has to put her own face back on before she leaves the Axiom. Why didn't she have a face? What happened there? That's meant not to be told because it is all hints towards the first memory choice players chose not to do in update IV, the Green Sun.

They also removed her memories of her own lover and soul-pair Tammuz, which was Ishtar's entire reason for fighting Axiom Corporation. Why, and how, and what on earth Axiom even really is, is meant to be mysterious. They probably removed many of her other memories, too, strategically.

how did the Emperor feel about Ton-618?

Likely deep feelings of hyperintelligent lust and appreciation for its filthy girth.
 
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I was rereading the story and noticed in the chapter where Ishtar has her first conversation Protagonist!Arachne that the mocking phrases the Evil!Arachne used when killing her seem be referencing their shared past and the mildly abusive training she gave to the Original!Arachne. As Ishtar didn't catch on to this we can assume that Axiom also erased her memory of Arachne. This would make sense if Original!Arachne was a powerful figure in the court of the Margrave and they wanted to eliminate a potential connection she could possible draw on to seek rescue or request revenge. It also implies that the attack was motivated by more than a desire to strike against a target of opportunity.

There is probably a really tragic story explaining why Original!Arachne did nothing to help Ishtar when she prosecuted her doomed campaign against Axiom and was forcibly turned into a mutilated slave.
 
At least it is not being used for mining bitcoin.
...Unless the Emperor is bitcoin, in which case, that possibly explain the dysfunctionality of the empire.

The Emperor was definitely not bitcoin (what They were once is unclear but They were definitely a self-willed, self-aware entity or entities in their original incarnation).

Also, talking about trying to "explain the dysfunctionality of the empire" bugs me a lot because the Empire was intended to be weird and alien and uncomfortable but not to project dysfunctionality, and when people say things like this it makes me wonder what part of the worldbuilding I fucked up.
 
Also, talking about trying to "explain the dysfunctionality of the empire" bugs me a lot because the Empire was intended to be weird and alien and uncomfortable but not to project dysfunctionality, and when people say things like this it makes me wonder what part of the worldbuilding I fucked up.
I'm not sure there is anything specifically wrong with the worldbuilding, but I think two aspects are at play here.
1: Anything that people find alien and uncomfortable is hard to imagine as hyperfunctional. People generally just can't picture how an unfamiliar society functions.
2: Post apocalyptic settings tend to show more of the 'collapse' than the society before it collapsed. Case in point, the dossiers we can buy from the Concierge.
 
Also, talking about trying to "explain the dysfunctionality of the empire" bugs me a lot because the Empire was intended to be weird and alien and uncomfortable but not to project dysfunctionality, and when people say things like this it makes me wonder what part of the worldbuilding I fucked up.

To add on what @HousePet said I do not meant that the Empire as a polity is dysfunctional. It exist for who know how long and seem to be pretty fine until it final moment. I actually love how it has been portrayed as a sort of fundamentally a god-like civilisation that would be at home in high fantasy setting. It just that ,well, at a personal level, I feel it just all wrong. Like how they certainly can clean Ix-Chel's homeworld of radiation fallout and save who know how many people... They just, don't, because it would hurt a profit. I can't help but feel society that operate like that is fundamentally broken.

I mean, that is just a real world, but I would say a real world very much is dysfunctional.
 
This is a quest that extensively examines the total collapse of Imperial civilization, so questers are more likely to focus on the elements that presage that collapse than ones that do not.

I take a documentary historical approach to worldbuilding where I mostly prefer to lay out the scenery good bad and ugly and let questers draw their own interpretations. You are all outsiders looking in, after all, current Arachne included. I don't think 'the Empire functioned wrong, even at its height', is a bad conclusion.

It is also colored by what came after, in which every atavistic tendency was magnified to the point of omnicidal desolation. Ultimately, loyalty to the Empire is not a precondition for this quest, because this is not and has never been an Imperial quest. Current Arachne is a cosmic child running off fragmented wikipedia pages and random newsletters from a suspicious hotelier as well as a questionably sane map-intelligence to advise her on what the Empire was like, and it is dead.

What comes next is what's really important.
 
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So a thought just hit me. Since this dream is presumably a real memory of Arachne alpha does this mean we now know what Ishtar's face looks like? And can thus restore it to her later?
 
I've been doing some thinking, and I think that the Vex from Destiny would slot super well into this setting. I just think they really match the aesthetic. Especially the lore for the Vault of Glass.
 
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