The Z Gamer

He was quite in character, as far as I'm concerned. Internal monologues don't break character as long as they're reasonable.

Considering the situation, with how his plans were shattered and he had basically nothing to strive for— he had a mental break.

Sasuke's mental breaks have been quite varied, from completely giving into hate to becoming catatonic. It's not outside the realm of possibility to begin behaving differently after yet another world shattering event.

People who disliked "hit the ground running" have no true understanding of Sasuke. All they see is "broody emo duck butt", and when I portray the guy as being actually human, the people lose their shit.

Apologies in advance for the incoherence ahead; I'll edit this tomorrow, maybe, if I remember.

Before I start on the topic, I'd like to preface this by stating that Sasuke is probably my favorite Naruto character. I also believe that there are a lot of ways to develop a character from their canon origins. Using a "mental break" to describe the direction you took his character is a cheap cop out for anyone to use - stating that a character is behaving this way rather than how they normally do due to mental trauma is always a cheap way to say "I want the character to act like someone else."

That's fine normally, except Sasuke is one of the only characters that actually has suffered a mental break before, and more or less exactly as you've described. Sasuke has - word for word - "had his plans shattered and had nothing to strive for" before.

In the past, when Sasuke has suffered major overhauls to his mindset and a complete loss of his immediate goals, he's exhibited similar behaviors each time. Generally speaking, he replaces his current goal with something else, and often has a phase where he is vulnerable to manipulation. As an individual, Sasuke is generally extremely focused and determined, although this changes depending on the exact phase of his development. One could argue that there are two major mental breaks Sasuke suffers across the series.

The first would be when he kills Itachi and he's picked up by Tobi. He learns that Itachi isn't behind the murders, suffers a period of immense self-doubt and anger, and immediately replaces it with a new goal and target. Next is when he is defeated by Naruto at the end of the series, and has his self-appointed goal taken from him - he immediately replaces it with an excuse of a nebulous Kaguya's threat after subordinating himself to Naruto, leaving his child to go wander off into nowhere after a period of doubt.

Of course, this is only my interpretation of his characterization, but there are a lot of ways to characterize how he handles mental breaks. I'd say he deals with them by immediately setting up another difficult goal or target in his mind. Some could argue he attempts escapism, immediately blaming something else for his problems or using it as a convenient focus to not think about other things. At any rate, Sasuke is literally the guy who left his unborn child to wander between dimensions for years at a time because the nebulous possibility of an unknown threat to Konoha. To think that immediately after falling in Bet with his Rinnegan intact, he wouldn't try to get back home is kind of ridiculous - failing that, develop some other great goal.

But when I was criticizing Sasuke's characterization, I actually wasn't talking about bigger picture stuff, since all of this is up to interpretation, although in my opinion I find myself having a hard time justifying how Sasuke's decisionmaking worked there. My issue was with the tone and prose around Sasuke's internal monologue.

He is not a "broody emo duck butt," no, but Sasuke is generally portrayed as stoic, confident, socially awkward, and prideful (though this fluctuates depending on the specific time, I think this more or less captures his mindset at the Kaguya fight. Is he the type to beg "Please work!" before casting a risky technique? I could buy grim acknowledgement of the odds, or perhaps even hesitation at the potential difficulty that he quickly squashes, but hoping something would work? It's little things like these that make or break the character. "Asking curiously" for the name of someone he's supposed to be just using for food and shelter?

In a first person fiction, the characterization is felt through not only the character's actions, but the prose, how things are described, the entirety of the piece. That's why most (good) readers look at first-person fanfiction and go ugh, because it's so easy for them to feel a wrongness when reading about a character to feel about. There's a reason why so few first person fanfiction are 'well-written.'

Then there are the weirder things. Sasuke learning how to act and pretend is already a little odd - yes, Orochimaru was an infiltration specialist, but Sasuke was also a power-desperate at the time, and I doubt he would be interested in infiltration that requires acting. He's never displayed acting abilities before, and even if he was learned - I doubt he'd have the patience to do so, to be frank. Not to mention that it falls under a lot of assumptions. You seem to forget that Sasuke was raised in a place where child soldiers and bleak outlooks were common. Subjecting themselves to the mercy of an unknown government without research? Assuming he'd get food and water at his age when other villages have precedent of pressing orphans to military service? The entire series of events is a little questionable.

At any rate, I didn't really like the piece. This one's much better, though. Less grammatical issues than your previous work, too.
 
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Of course, this is only my interpretation of his characterization.

You're right, that is your interpretation.

You labor under the assumption that Sasuke is still manipulable, completely missing the fact that even Orochimaru, the master manipulator himself, noted quite easily that Sasuke had considerably changed by the point he summoned the 4 Hokage.

Then, after a few hours of fighting alongside the Allied Shinobi Forces, as well as his previous Konoha friends, followed by titanic battles against both Obito in all of his various forms and Madara completely wrecking him, followed by receiving the Six Paths power, followed by fighting Madara again, followed by fighting Kaguya alongside his former team and seeing just how well they all meshed together, with a dash of Naruto using Sasuke's words "my body just moved on its own", and a dash of SasuSaku, as well as actually succeeding in saving the world.

By that point, his mind was already in doubt about everything, but he planned on fighting against Naruto to finally see whose viewpoint is the right one. Except... He has been thrown into the multiverse, with no idea how to get home.

Sasuke has lost the fight by default— more than that, he lost absolutely everything that was ever familiar to him. It is not a cop-out at all to see that he would react in a fashion similar, but also quite different than how he would react in previous stages of his development. He draws from his last moments in his old world, praising Kakashi, Sakura, and even that usuratonkachi of a teammate he has.

It signifies that he has given up on his old ways—or is at least in the beginning stages of doing so— and is just trying to find a new path to follow.

The only gripe I'll accept is that I developed his character a little faster than what would feel natural, but it is still a valid enough path of development, by my reckoning.

TL;DR version:

I didn't miss the mark with Sasuke's behavior— at all. I took him on a different path, and had him react in as natural of a way as possible given his newfound circumstances.

I've said all I need to say on the matter. If you disagree with my reasoning, then that's a difference of opinion.


I will no longer be answering anything on here other than questions related to "The Z Gamer". If you have questions about any of my other stories, you are welcome to message me on here or on ffnet, or add me on discord, ZeroRewind#7142

Be aware, I am not a nice person, if you irritate me enough I will likely insult you.

Thank you for the comment.
 
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Anyways, a question I have about Ten is, why the name Ten? I mean im half expecting his mother, because of dragonball naming traditions., to be an offshoot of the Briefs family that names children after pants with a name like Jean, but then that could juat be a regular name..
 
Anyways, a question I have about Ten is, why the name Ten? I mean im half expecting his mother, because of dragonball naming traditions., to be an offshoot of the Briefs family that names children after pants with a name like Jean, but then that could juat be a regular name..
It translates to heaven in Japanese, at least according to google.
 
Just idle thinking, will the humans be getting a "power-up transformation" like a lot of the other races in DB have. OR, will you be having them kind of like a mix between Jirren and "xianxia" cultivators who have limits in their body that when broken gives a permanent increase in their base power without the need to power-up? I am unsure what sort of transformation you could give to the humans without them coming off as a cheap copy of the super saiyan one. Whereas going the other path seems more likely, with Roshi having gone half-way but not being able to completely break his limit to condense his body, similar too the super saiyan and 1/2 done by Truncks against Cell, compared with super saiyan two.
 
Just idle thinking, will the humans be getting a "power-up transformation" like a lot of the other races in DB have. OR, will you be having them kind of like a mix between Jirren and "xianxia" cultivators who have limits in their body that when broken gives a permanent increase in their base power without the need to power-up? I am unsure what sort of transformation you could give to the humans without them coming off as a cheap copy of the super saiyan one. Whereas going the other path seems more likely, with Roshi having gone half-way but not being able to completely break his limit to condense his body, similar too the super saiyan and 1/2 done by Truncks against Cell, compared with super saiyan two.

Transformation? I'll be honest with you— if Toriyama hadn't been busy giving Saiyans what some in the community lovingly refer to as "the Toriyama handjob", meaning he powers up Saiyans constantly without even considering it, often at the expense of the story.

For example, Goku vs Cell could've had Goku use Kaioken at any moment in the fight, while transformed. For that matter, he could've had Cell use the technique while fighting against Gohan. That's the thing with DBZ, it's all "USSJ this, SSJ2 that".

So, you see, the problem isn't transformations, it's Toriyama. The toolkits the humans have are ridiculous.

Kikoho is many times more powerful than Kamehameha, but Toriyama nerfed it time and again despite showing its absolute power in OG DB. I mean, Roshi flipped his shit anytime the technique was brought out. Not to mention the Dodonpa, another technique Roshi stated in no uncertain terms to be at least equal to the Kamehameha.

Speaking of Roshi, why did no one think to use Mafuba against Majin Buu? Or Cell? Why did no one use Thunder Shock Surprise? Toriyama forgets he has pre-established characters.

Kienzan can cut through anything.

Taioken is a devastating counter or stalling technique— this is the only one that's used, but no one ever follows up on it.

Chaozu, Tien and Yamcha should at least know how to use the Kaioken, as they actually did train at King Kai's place— no, that is not filler. And no, saying something like "Goku's biology allows him to use Kaioken at high levels" that is more Toriyama handjob nonsense that the fans ate up— this is why the fans are now aghast at the events in Super. Races other than Saiyans are dominating.

Goku trained for almost 15 years after the defeat of Freeza to reach Super Saiyan Blue.
Meanwhile, Freeza gets resurrected, trains for a month and pretty much shits on everyone. He had to be double teamed by Goku and Vegeta, as well as get plot deviced by Whis' "turn back time" nonsense to lose his fight. That's how bad it was.

Jiren, most OP fighter. Not Saiyan.

Gohan embracing his human side and somehow strong enough to match Kefla.

TL;DR version: Saiyans will be powerful in this story, but I won't hype them up to be the epitome. Krillin can still one-shot anything without regenerative hacks. So can Tien. Yamcha and Chaozu, well they later gave up on fighting so they don't really count.
 
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He secretly has 9 other siblings that have yet to show up in the plot in any way.
"Why can't chu be more like yo brother Three!? He ain't nevah left the island, now HE became an accountant. He visits often, too! Does yo mothah hafta call up yo sistah Seven to knock some sense into yo hide??!?"

I just imagined it in a really heavy Brooklyn accent.

Before somehow it comes to light that his grandfather is named Gero...
 
Might I suggest toning down transformations in general. Maybe have people who can transform focus more on control, technique, and skill as opposed to raw power. Also, I feel that breaking through to a permanent new level of power is a solid idea, like how Gohan gets his mystic power. Which for some reason he never uses ever, even though he can theoretically keep it on forever.
 
Transformation? I'll be honest with you— if Toriyama hadn't been busy giving Saiyans what some in the community lovingly refer to as "the Toriyama handjob", meaning he powers up Saiyans constantly without even considering it, often at the expense of the story.

For example, Goku vs Cell could've had Goku use Kaioken at any moment in the fight, while transformed. For that matter, he could've had Cell use the technique while fighting against Gohan. That's the thing with DBZ, it's all "USSJ this, SSJ2 that".

So, you see, the problem isn't transformations, it's Toriyama. The toolkits the humans have are ridiculous.

Kikoho is many times more powerful than Kamehameha, but Toriyama nerfed it time and again despite showing its absolute power in OG DB. I mean, Roshi flipped his shit anytime the technique was brought out. Not to mention the Dodonpa, another technique Roshi stated in no uncertain terms to be at least equal to the Kamehameha.

Speaking of Roshi, why did no one think to use Mafuba against Majin Buu? Or Cell? Why did no one use Thunder Shock Surprise? Toriyama forgets he has pre-established characters.

Kienzan can cut through anything.

Taioken is a devastating counter or stalling technique— this is the only one that's used, but no one ever follows up on it.

Chaozu, Tien and Yamcha should at least know how to use the Kaioken, as they actually did train at King Kai's place— no, that is not filler. And no, saying something like "Goku's biology allows him to use Kaioken at high levels" that is more Toriyama handjob nonsense that the fans ate up— this is why the fans are now aghast at the events in Super. Races other than Saiyans are dominating.

Goku trained for almost 15 years after the defeat of Freeza to reach Super Saiyan Blue.
Meanwhile, Freeza gets resurrected, trains for a month and pretty much shits on everyone. He had to be double teamed by Goku and Vegeta, as well as get plot deviced by Whis' "turn back time" nonsense to lose his fight. That's how bad it was.

Jiren, most OP fighter. Not Saiyan.

Gohan embracing his human side and somehow strong enough to match Kefla.

TL;DR version: Saiyans will be powerful in this story, but I won't hype them up to be the epitome. Krillin can still one-shot anything without regenerative hacks. So can Tien. Yamcha and Chaozu, well they later gave up on fighting so they don't really count.
I mean, if I remember correctly, the kienzan doesn't have infinite cutting ability. It still didn't work on Cell, though it can cut way above PL.
At least some of those techniques I don't think Roshi ever actually taught to anyone, and the PL difference between Roshi and the relevant antagonists likely means that they would have been less than super effective.
I think Kaioken was supposed to be incompatible with the mortal SSJ forms (likely including the version Perfect Cell uses), but Toriyama didn't have to make it that way.
 
Transformation? I'll be honest with you— if Toriyama hadn't been busy giving Saiyans what some in the community lovingly refer to as "the Toriyama handjob", meaning he powers up Saiyans constantly without even considering it, often at the expense of the story.

For example, Goku vs Cell could've had Goku use Kaioken at any moment in the fight, while transformed. For that matter, he could've had Cell use the technique while fighting against Gohan. That's the thing with DBZ, it's all "USSJ this, SSJ2 that".

So, you see, the problem isn't transformations, it's Toriyama. The toolkits the humans have are ridiculous.

Kikoho is many times more powerful than Kamehameha, but Toriyama nerfed it time and again despite showing its absolute power in OG DB. I mean, Roshi flipped his shit anytime the technique was brought out. Not to mention the Dodonpa, another technique Roshi stated in no uncertain terms to be at least equal to the Kamehameha.

Speaking of Roshi, why did no one think to use Mafuba against Majin Buu? Or Cell? Why did no one use Thunder Shock Surprise? Toriyama forgets he has pre-established characters.

Kienzan can cut through anything.

Taioken is a devastating counter or stalling technique— this is the only one that's used, but no one ever follows up on it.

Chaozu, Tien and Yamcha should at least know how to use the Kaioken, as they actually did train at King Kai's place— no, that is not filler. And no, saying something like "Goku's biology allows him to use Kaioken at high levels" that is more Toriyama handjob nonsense that the fans ate up— this is why the fans are now aghast at the events in Super. Races other than Saiyans are dominating.

Goku trained for almost 15 years after the defeat of Freeza to reach Super Saiyan Blue.
Meanwhile, Freeza gets resurrected, trains for a month and pretty much shits on everyone. He had to be double teamed by Goku and Vegeta, as well as get plot deviced by Whis' "turn back time" nonsense to lose his fight. That's how bad it was.

Jiren, most OP fighter. Not Saiyan.

Gohan embracing his human side and somehow strong enough to match Kefla.

TL;DR version: Saiyans will be powerful in this story, but I won't hype them up to be the epitome. Krillin can still one-shot anything without regenerative hacks. So can Tien. Yamcha and Chaozu, well they later gave up on fighting so they don't really count.
The only reason I brought it up is to kinda narrow down what "could" happen in the future. I definitely agree with what you are saying and that's why I had the second idea of the "xianxia" style powering. I mean, if you have watched the Tournament of Power, Roshi is a badass, just like he was in the original Dragon Ball and I had actually missed that. Having a human character not just being more "powerful" than their opponents, but also being so much more FLEXIBLE in their fighting. I mean, we only ever see Picollo use his "cloths beam" Magic Materialization to give Gohan new clothes, which is a massive waste. At the very least he could constantly be "upping the amount of weights he is wearing for better training, which was definitely a wasted opportunity when he was on King Kais planed with its higher gravity.

With Ten being a much more "dedicated" martial artist, as well as, having the constant mission of the universe potentially being destroyed, even with his less frantic training right now, he would get a ton of use out of the technique. It would also be interesting to see him make or refine his own versions of techniques, instead of constantly have in massive beam struggles. I mean, a condensed beam would cut through a normal one anytime, it's also weird that the dodon Ray is more of a concussive blast than a piercing one like Frieza's death beam. Anyway, loving the story, can't wait for the next chapter.
 
I mean, if I remember correctly, the kienzan doesn't have infinite cutting ability. It still didn't work on Cell, though it can cut way above PL.
At least some of those techniques I don't think Roshi ever actually taught to anyone, and the PL difference between Roshi and the relevant antagonists likely means that they would have been less than super effective.
I think Kaioken was supposed to be incompatible with the mortal SSJ forms (likely including the version Perfect Cell uses), but Toriyama didn't have to make it that way.

Krillin using Kienzan on Cell is filler.

I will repeat.

KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER.

I will repeat once again!

KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER.

ANOTHER COLOR!

KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!

We clear? We clear.

If Kaioken isn't compatible with mortal SSJ, then it's not compatible with normal mortal saiyan form either.


What's this? BONUS ROUND!?!


KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
 
Might I suggest toning down transformations in general. Maybe have people who can transform focus more on control, technique, and skill as opposed to raw power. Also, I feel that breaking through to a permanent new level of power is a solid idea, like how Gohan gets his mystic power. Which for some reason he never uses ever, even though he can theoretically keep it on forever.

Well it's not really "mystic", it's just his potential fully unleashed.

Also, I highly suggest you read the DBSuper Manga, in which he uses it when he gains his fighting sense back— and it comes out of nowhere.
 
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I mean, if you have watched the Tournament of Power, Roshi is a badass, just like he was in the original Dragon Ball and I had actually missed that.

I read the DBSuper Manga, I don't bother with the anime.

With Ten being a much more "dedicated" martial artist, as well as, having the constant mission of the universe potentially being destroyed, even with his less frantic training right now, he would get a ton of use out of the technique.

Yes.
 
Well it's not really "mystic", it's just his potential fully unleashed.

Also, I highly suggest you read the DBSuper Manga, in which he uses it when he gains his fighting sense back— and it comes out of nowhere.
The mods dun like double posting, and can get fussy about that.

I mean, we only ever see Picollo use his "cloths beam" Magic Materialization to give Gohan new clothes, which is a massive waste. At the very least he could constantly be "upping the amount of weights he is wearing for better training, which was definitely a wasted opportunity when he was on King Kais planed with its higher gravity.
Or, you know, since most baddies seem to just walk through energy blasts they think won't scratch them, how about a clothes beam with some saiyan grade cuffs?

What the hell was it that Shin summoned? 'Klangtite'? Stupid friggin name, but imagine if you shot a beam at someone, and it coalesced into an unbreakable suit of restraints? Sure, you still have the Vegito=Candy problem. Just because you restrain their limbs, doesn't mean they can't reposition themselves with flight to better aim their subsequent energy balls of death towards your face.

But still. There's utility there, above and beyond just 'Poof, now am wearings different cloths'

I read the DBSuper Manga, I don't bother with the anime.

Yes.
They REAAAAALLY dun like triple posting, even if it is your own thread.
 
What the hell was it that Shin summoned? 'Klangtite'? Stupid friggin name, but imagine if you shot a beam at someone, and it coalesced into an unbreakable suit of restraints? Sure, you still have the Vegito=Candy problem. Just because you restrain their limbs, doesn't mean they can't reposition themselves with flight to better aim their subsequent energy balls of death towards your face.

They REAAAAALLY dun like triple posting, even if it is your own thread.

Katchin steel is the name of the strongest metal.

I don't care if some random mod disables my thread over some arbitrary rule, I still post on ffnet.
 
Krillin using Kienzan on Cell is filler.

I will repeat.

KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER.

I will repeat once again!

KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER.

ANOTHER COLOR!

KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!

We clear? We clear.

If Kaioken isn't compatible with mortal SSJ, then it's not compatible with normal mortal saiyan form either.


What's this? BONUS ROUND!?!


KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
KRILLIN USING KIENZAN ON CELL IS FILLER!
Filler is optionally canon...
Why do you say that? It's a major physical and spiritual transformation, so I don't really see anything wrong with having different effects between the forms.
 
Filler is optionally canon...
Why do you say that? It's a major physical and spiritual transformation, so I don't really see anything wrong with having different effects between the forms.

Canon is the source material. The source material for the story is the Dragonball Manga. The manga has no scene in which Krillin uses Kienzan on Cell, thus maintaining the idea that Kienzan can cut through anything.

The anime directly goes against this— and so, that scene becomes worthless for theorycrafting purposes, as it was just added in to hype up Cell's new strength at the expense of the story's combat system.


As for the Kaioken argument, everyone loves to say that SSJ has a strain on the body and Kaioken would add too much to it. However, I seem to remember there was this training that Goku and Gohan did to eliminate all strain Super Saiyan added to the body, thereby leaving them to be just as receptive to Kaioken as in their normal state.

The real reason Toriyama didn't add in Kaioken in that fight was because it doesn't fit with his job's requirements. He had to be churning out further and further cool things every week, just winging it the whole time.
Why use Kaioken when you have a cool, new and flashy electric transformation?

Thank you for your comment. :)
 
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Canon is the source material. The source material for the story is the Dragonball Manga. The manga has no scene in which Krillin uses Kienzan on Cell, thus maintaining the idea that Kienzan can cut through anything.

The anime directly goes against this— and so, that scene becomes worthless for theorycrafting purposes, as it was just added in to hype up Cell's new strength at the expense of the story's combat system.


As for the Kaioken argument, everyone loves to say that SSJ has a strain on the body and Kaioken would add too much to it. However, I seem to remember there was this training that Goku and Gohan did to eliminate all strain Super Saiyan added to the body, thereby leaving them to be just as receptive to Kaioken as in their normal state.

The real reason Toriyama didn't add in Kaioken in that fight was because it doesn't fit with his job's requirements. He had to be churning out further and further cool things every week, just winging it the whole time.
Why use Kaioken when you have a cool, new and flashy electric transformation?

Thank you for your comment. :)
It could be incompatible for reasons other than the strain for the record. It could be that FPSSJ is the limit of the 'strain power' (without using a bulky form) of him at the time. It could be a random physiological quirk related to the operation of s-cells or whatever that interferes with the kaioken process.
I agree about the OOC reasons though.
I mean, as far as the source material comment goes... maybe? I tend to treat differences like that as just being alternate universes with the same basic ideas, with slightly varying events than 'one overrides the other'.
 
It could be incompatible for reasons other than the strain for the record. It could be that FPSSJ is the limit of the 'strain power' (without using a bulky form) of him at the time. It could be a random physiological quirk related to the operation of s-cells or whatever that interferes with the kaioken process.
I agree about the OOC reasons though.
I mean, as far as the source material comment goes... maybe? I tend to treat differences like that as just being alternate universes with the same basic ideas, with slightly varying events than 'one overrides the other'.

I am generally am drawing from the manga.

From the anime, I will draw anything that doesn't seem to contradict the manga. For example, Dragonball Minus and Bardock: The Father of Goku do contradict each other when Bardock is seeing Goku's initial PL vs Bardock throwing him in a pod and saying goodbye, but that's fixed by discounting the special's scene.

As for the Kaioken argument, Goku was willing to risk destroying his body in the fight against Vegeta, going to a 3x Kaioken followed by a 4x Kaioken— I don't think it'd be a stretch to even try Kaioken x2 while in FPSSJ. Hell, I wouldn't be upset if it failed, I just wanted him to try it, but he never did, it was never mentioned in the manga that he even thought of it.

I understand your reasoning, though.
 
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Now that I think about it, what exactly is stopping Piccolo from shooting a clothes beam at Goku, and just encasing him in a completely sealed 15foot radius orb of concrete or steel?
 
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