- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
No thank you.
Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)
- Thread starter Esbilon
- Start date
This was brought up a few pages ago, in the form of employees spinning up new consumer application departments. I don't know if Esbilon ever posted a decision about it, but all the consumer applications are going to basically be hand waved as "happening, but not important". Not sure if we'll start seeing income from those, or need to invest in them.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
That doesn't require any new techs, we have already taken VIs to a new level.
Hell, canon could have been there too, he component techs were just never put together properly.
Well if we have the tech we may think about building something like that because robots would be great against Reaper ground forces since the whole terror tactic is useless against them. And even without that threat the military should love loyal, untiring soldiers that will follow their orders to the letter.
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
The problem is Reapers are Giant Ai's that love to hack into things, Including massive numbers of Geth.
Geth? Reaper needed hard connection and the Geth *letting them in* via accepting the 'upgrades'. And unless we leave open ports to outside for the Reapers to hack into Reapers arent going to hack into them unless they run around inside a Reaper ship or something. Make the drones be controlled by voice command or something if we are so paranoid.
Amberion
Mighty #9
The Reapers corrupted the heretic Geth in ME1. While they didn't assume direct control, they did coopt them.
a) The Geth were never designed with large scale cyberwarfar in mind, they were a interconnected system that reached sentience. Even so Sovereign "tricked"/convinced them in ME1/ they only choose the Reapers when faced with their destruction.
Our VI/AI however are designed for war by the smartest mind in history. It was the reason why I took the Star Wars robots and their limited sentience as an example for what I wanted. At best we would et something with localized networking and strong individuality.
b) Eclipse. In the fluff it said that its robots will be of great use and that means than the Reaper hacking capabilities are clearly limited.
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There wasn't any hacking there. Sovereign just convinced them that they should join the Reapers. Didn't take anything but talking.
Amberion
Mighty #9
The Geth only followed the reapers in ME1 due to what Legion called a 'math error', a subtle reference to the Pentium math error. The Reapers introduced this math error to make the Geth accept the reapers as gods. The majority of the Geth who were not coopted by this corruption(virus?) rejected the reapers and chose their own fate.
Any source that the Reapers introduced this into the Geth or is it your conjecture?
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Drones and mechs are used extensively - we just only ever see LOKIs, which are explicitly noted as a cheap (and thus widespread) model. Pretty sure most people agree with releasing better versions, we talked about this during the IFV design process.
...actually that reminds me, @Esbilon, we have 5 meter mechs and up, does that tech include a Floater/FENRIS/LOKI analogue in addition to a better YMIR? If not, we can make that a branch...though it probably should.
...actually that reminds me, @Esbilon, we have 5 meter mechs and up, does that tech include a Floater/FENRIS/LOKI analogue in addition to a better YMIR? If not, we can make that a branch...though it probably should.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
No, that virus was developed with the heretics over the course of ME2.
Amberion
Mighty #9
Legion talks about this in ME2. I'm searching for a quote.
The direct quote has Legion referring to the Heretic Weapon in ME2. So no, there is no direct evidence that Sovereign introduced a virus to coopt the Geth. It is, however, entirely believable when you consider the Reapers' MO of indoctrinating their subjects. This math error is simply the synthetic version of indoctrination, subtly altering their thoughts to make them do things they otherwise would not.
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Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Legion describes the split as the difference between saying (i forget exactly which numbers were used) "three is greater than two" and saying "four is greater than three", specifically stating that both are correct. No "error" was involved, just a difference.
The heritics later create a virus to force the rest of the Geth to follow their logic (i believe this is where the mathmatical error shows up. It's used to force the choice.) Which you can ignore (i think? Legion's loyalty mission), reprogram and turn on them, or destroy.
The heritics later create a virus to force the rest of the Geth to follow their logic (i believe this is where the mathmatical error shows up. It's used to force the choice.) Which you can ignore (i think? Legion's loyalty mission), reprogram and turn on them, or destroy.
Amberion
Mighty #9
(Normandy conversation regarding the heretic virus)
Legion: This heretic weapon introduces a subtle operating error in our most basic runtimes. The equivalent of your nervous system. An equation with a result of 1.33382 returns as 1.33381. This changes the results of all higher processes. We will reach different conclusions.
Shepard: So the reason they worship the Reapers is... a math error?
Legion: It is difficult to express. Your brain exists as chemistry, electricity. Like AIs, you are shaped by both hardware and software. Geth are purely software. Mathematics. The heretics' conclusion is valid for them. Our conclusion is valid for us. Neither result is an error. An analogy. Heretics say one is less than two. Geth say two is less than three.
By this analogy, indoctrinated people aren't wrong either...
Legion: This heretic weapon introduces a subtle operating error in our most basic runtimes. The equivalent of your nervous system. An equation with a result of 1.33382 returns as 1.33381. This changes the results of all higher processes. We will reach different conclusions.
Shepard: So the reason they worship the Reapers is... a math error?
Legion: It is difficult to express. Your brain exists as chemistry, electricity. Like AIs, you are shaped by both hardware and software. Geth are purely software. Mathematics. The heretics' conclusion is valid for them. Our conclusion is valid for us. Neither result is an error. An analogy. Heretics say one is less than two. Geth say two is less than three.
By this analogy, indoctrinated people aren't wrong either...
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Problem is, the heretics left the true Geth long before the development of the weapon.
But that does sound exactly like what Reaper indoctrination of synthetics would do - and it makes sense from a certain viewpoint...they indoctrinated the Rachni when they needed shock troops, they indoctrinated the Geth next time they did.
Why make a virus to accomplish the same thing then? Maybe because no Reapers were actually present to indoctrinate the true Geth, so it had to be initiated artificially? Dunno.
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Amberion
Mighty #9
I agree. It's all conjecture on my part but it makes a certain amount of sense. Geth share data. They literally can't NOT share data. If all Geth have access to all the combined data of the geth, they SHOULD reach the same conclusion. So how is it possible for the schism to even have happened? And another question; if Sovereign could grab so many of the Geth, why didn't he grab them all?
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Time constraints maybe? Something must have forced his hand - this discovery of a fully functional beacon? We know that subtle indoctrination takes a long time, probably even more so on that scale. Maybe the original intention was to finish all the Geth, but he was interrupted by the discovery of the beacon and had to move with what he had.
As for why some would be converted faster than others...all Geth share data, but they have different perspectives not just because of different experiences between sharing sessions, but by virtue of being different programs. Maybe certain combinations of programs were more easily swayed/more susceptible to the corruption than others.
As for why some would be converted faster than others...all Geth share data, but they have different perspectives not just because of different experiences between sharing sessions, but by virtue of being different programs. Maybe certain combinations of programs were more easily swayed/more susceptible to the corruption than others.
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Edited it in so the research now show:
This turn? Nil. That's what overflow is for.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
So if all the dice get their maximum value Mk II won't be finished?
Or the Geth have the minute differences in their programming by *design*. If all the programs were the same, every single bit, then the consensus based decision making wouldn't work since all of them would reach the same idea if they all have access to the same data. Thus, the Geth VIs has to have minute differences so that they will look at things from different positions.
And so, the Geth were *already* ripe for a split, but there was no impetus for it to happen as there only seemed to be one path forward. The Dyson Sphere plan of the main Geth. Getting a Reaper body or making their own 'body' via Dyson Sphere both have the same end point, having all Geth VI connected in the same platform. The main Geth wanted to forge their own path, the Heretics wanted to take the short cut that Nazara presented.
The Reapers aren't hacking geniuses. Sure, they've got the monkey model indoctrination from the Leviathans, but all in all, their ability to truly hack into other AI (or networked VI like the Geth) seems to be limited.
The difference in the Heretic/Main Geth split was already present, Nazara just showed the alternative.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
You realize that isn't going to happen, right? It's 140 dice.
The Mk. II just isn't going to be finished this turn, and optical computing/advanced mass effect theory/advanced neural interface all outweigh it in terms of priority for next turn. It can be done in two more quarters though.