Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

Argh, I'm too lazy to make a drawing (it's more than 30C where I am, and no air conditioning), so, have a simple diagram:

______SPACE_________
______SC1___________
___Interlayer space____
___very thing layer____

___Hull SC2__________
___Inner Hull________


SC1>>1
A>SC2>>1

SC - scaling coefficient introduced by mass effect field. A a scaling coefficient at which enough light given off the by the hull would shift into high enough portions of the spectrum so as to pose danger to the inner layer of the ships by either creating radiation damage in the inner hull or pass through the hull entirely and posing danger to the crew and equipment inside.

The system works on the total internal reflection effect. Light passes from outer space into the sheet of mass lightening field SC1. Because it's mass lightening n1<1; this means that only light waves entering at the angle of less than arcsin(1/n1) will pass instead of being reflected. n1 can be as high as 43680 at least (and that's assuming that ships cruise at 10% internal lightspeed while in FTL). All other light gets reflected.

From the inner side it works on the same principle, only here it serves the purpose of trapping excess heat and preventing it from returning back into the ship. An outer layer of the hull (the one containing the radiators and probably a network of liquid cooling system tubes) is placed into a mass-lowering ME field. This serves two purposes. First, it lowers the amount of radiated energy, despite shifting the spectrum into the higher frequencies (as I have shown previously). Second, it prevent the light from coming back in to further heat the radiators based, again, on the total internal reflection. The light, after being emitted by the hull, is scattered by a very thin layer on top of it, and then bounces back from the outer layer SC1. It then gets trapped between two layers of mass effect fields.

There are of course weaknesses, such as light passing if it's perfectly perpendicular(well, with the angle of incidence smaller than 0.001 degree) to the field. But such would require miracle shots and would be countered by having several layers of non-parallel fields stacked one atop another.


So, yay for perfect stealth in space and DEW-blocking fields.
 
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re: Floating Ground.

As I understand it (and I'm not an electrician), It's actually not all that hard to deal with static electricity even if you don't have a planet to use as a ground, and Mass Effect's canon FTL limit as stated is kinda nonsense. Most of the time fics handwave that and either say there's something special about the static from eezo drives, or they just pretend that no one ever figured it out.

Consider that electron guns are a thing (we used them for vacuum tubes and CRT displays), it should be easy to just shoot excess electrons out into space where they won't bother anyone.
 
Yog, I have only two problems with this.
1. It can't be scaled down to infantry size.
2. You just made laser research useless. T.T
 
Just exploiting basic physics. Note that I haven't tried to produce this from basic principles - it's quite possible that, when you take variable C and start from the very beginning, you get strange effects,

Yog, I have only two problems with this.
1. It can't be scaled down to infantry size.
Well, it can, in principle. You can have the same thing around a person as you have around the ship, if miniaturization is good enough (would require ultracompact FTL drives, though, and probably some extra on top of that). It would render them completely blind, though. Which is a problem, yes.
2. You just made laser research useless. T.T
For military purposes, on the ship-to-ship scale, quite possibly yes. On the other hand, near perfect stealth in space. And strong requirement to work out some sort of non-EM sensor. Like long range dark energy / gravitational ones.
 
There are of course weaknesses, such as light passing if it's perfectly parallel (well, with the angle of incidence smaller than 0.001 degree) to the field. But such would require miracle shots and would be countered by having several layers of non-parallel fields stacked one atop another.

Wouldn't non parallel layers just mean that anything that gets through the first layer will bounce around until it gets through one or the other layer?

Besides, this is basically talking about having multiple mass effect fields overlapping eachother, and maneuvering the entire assembly of shields. If we can do overlaps like that reliably, it'd be good for stations. I suspect ships wouldn't be able to run this full time tho.
 
Wouldn't non parallel layers just mean that anything that gets through the first layer will bounce around until it gets through one or the other layer?
Damn, ment perpendicular - corrected. And no. The effect occurs when light passes from the area with higher n (lower c) to the area with lower n (higher c). If the light passes the first layer and bounces off the second, it can exit freely.

Besides, this is basically talking about having multiple mass effect fields overlapping eachother, and maneuvering the entire assembly of shields. If we can do overlaps like that reliably, it'd be good for stations. I suspect ships wouldn't be able to run this full time tho.
Arc reactors for power, advanced computers for modeling. Though, yeah, it's not a simple task, obviously.
 
And strong requirement to work out some sort of non-EM sensor. Like long range dark energy / gravitational ones.
I've seen fiction with gravitic sensors before. And they're even mroe feasible here than elsewhere, as the mass effect fields used by ships would probably show a constant fluctuation. unless they, stopped shifting their fields/ went in a straight line without changing acceleration... And then we'd hit them.
 
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I've seen fiction with gravitic sensors before. And they're even mroe feasible here than elsewhere, as the mass effect fields used by ships would probably show a constant fluctuation. unless they, stopped shifting their fields/ went in a straight line without changing acceleration... And then we'd hit them.
Mass effect is relatively realistic as far as sensors go. They have some sort of "dark energy" detector, though. Which will probably get lots of upgrades if this gets developed.

Also, it wouldn't work as stealth near celestial bodies or anywhere where active scans are possible. It turns the ship into a perfect mirror. It's a perfectly cold mirror, yes, but it's a mirror. So, active scanners of some sort would detect it no problem. So, near planets it wouldn't really be feasible, but, then again, near planets you need completely different stealth techniques anyway.
 
Damn, ment perpendicular - corrected. And no. The effect occurs when light passes from the area with higher n (lower c) to the area with lower n (higher c). If the light passes the first layer and bounces off the second, it can exit freely.
So... it is not in fact stealth then, since it does nothing to stop emissions from leaving the ship?
 
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So... it is not in fact stealth then, since it does nothing to stop emissions from leaving the ship?
No it is. That's what the interlayer space is for. It goes like this:

OUTER SPACE
SC1>>1
SPACE
HULL WITH SC2>>1
INNER HULL

The third layer from the top, "SPACE" has higher n (lower c) than either the hull or the outer layer. Light emitted by the hull gets trapped between it and the outer field.

I explained it here:
From the inner side it works on the same principle, only here it serves the purpose of trapping excess heat and preventing it from returning back into the ship. An outer layer of the hull (the one containing the radiators and probably a network of liquid cooling system tubes) is placed into a mass-lowering ME field. This serves two purposes. First, it lowers the amount of radiated energy, despite shifting the spectrum into the higher frequencies (as I have shown previously). Second, it prevent the light from coming back in to further heat the radiators based, again, on the total internal reflection. The light, after being emitted by the hull, is scattered by a very thin layer on top of it, and then bounces back from the outer layer SC1. It then gets trapped between two layers of mass effect fields.
 
No it is. That's what the interlayer space is for. It goes like this:

OUTER SPACE
SC1>>1
SPACE
HULL WITH SC2>>1
INNER HULL

The third layer from the top, "SPACE" has higher n (lower c) than either the hull or the outer layer. Light emitted by the hull gets trapped between it and the outer field.

I explained it here:
And the fact that surrounding the ship with a perfectly reflective surface would greatly increase its radar profile? Because "I don't know what that is, but I know I'm gonna shoot it" is valid military strategy against people that like stealth technology too much.
 
And the fact that surrounding the ship with a perfectly reflective surface would greatly increase its radar profile? Because "I don't know what that is, but I know I'm gonna shoot it" is valid military strategy against people that like stealth technology too much.
Radar isn't really viable at long distances in space. Otherwise Normandy's "heat hiding" thing would have been useless. This technique completely hides any and all emissions a ship has. That's a lot. And I said that it's for deep space.
 
And the fact that surrounding the ship with a perfectly reflective surface would greatly increase its radar profile? Because "I don't know what that is, but I know I'm gonna shoot it" is valid military strategy against people that like stealth technology too much.

remember, you can detect some else using active sensors at twice the range the sensors are effective so this is a risky prospect.
 
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Radar isn't really viable at long distances in space. Otherwise Normandy's "heat hiding" thing would have been useless. This technique completely hides any and all emissions a ship has. That's a lot. And I said that it's for deep space.
Wrote a rant, checked the wiki for something in the rant, realized I'm ranting about the wrong thing. The Right thing to rant about is: Why would a mass effect field change the refractive index of vacuum? Because vacuum doesn't have a reflective index.

edit:No wait, reread the proposal, you're using hull material, okay. Firstly, that would result in the outermost layer getting burned off until you're trying to alter vacuum, so there's that problem again. Secondly: Why would a mass effect field chance the refractive index of anything?
 
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Wrote a rant, checked the wiki for something in the rant, realized I'm ranting about the wrong thing. The Right thing to rant about is: Why would a mass effect field change the refractive index of vacuum? Because vacuum doesn't have a reflective index.
Vacuum has refractive index of 1. That's before ME fields come into play.
edit:No wait, reread the proposal, you're using hull material, okay. Firstly, that would result in the outermost layer getting burned off until you're trying to alter vacuum, so there's that problem again. Secondly: Why would a mass effect field chance the refractive index of anything?
Because that's how it works - it changes the value of C (yes, mass effect field actually changes speed of light in vacuum in a given area) which changes refractive index. We have gone over this several times in this and other threads already. Hereare the quotes:
Light travels slower through glass than it does through open air; light also moves slower in conventional space than it does in a high-speed mass effect field. This causes refraction: any light entering a mass effect field will change in angle and be separated into a spectrum. Objects outside the affected ship will appear refracted. The greater the difference between the objective (exterior) and subjective (interior) speeds of light, the greater the refraction.

As the subjective speed of light is raised within the field, objects outside will appear to redshift, eventually becoming visible only to radio telescope antennas. High-energy electromagnetic sources normally hidden to the eye become visible on the spectrum. As the speed of light continues to rise, x-ray, gamma ray, and eventfully cosmic ray sources become visible. Stars will be replaced by pulsars, the accretion discs of black holes, quasars, and gamma ray bursts.

To an outside observer, a ship within a mass effect drive envelope appears to have blue-shifted. If within a field that allows travel at twice the speed of light, any radiation it emits has twice the energy as normal. If the ship is in a field of about 200 times lightspeed, it radiates visible light as x-rays and gamma rays, and the infrared heat from the hull is blue-shifted up into the visible spectrum or higher.

Ships moving at FTL are visible at great distances, though their signature will only propagate at the speed of light. According to Engineer Adams, the SSV Normandy's stealth system does not work at FTL speeds because that blue-shifts the ship's emissions into frequencies too high to capture in the hull sinks.
It's a quote from the wiki which lifted it from the codex. It's a real effect in the game lore.

So, yes, mass effect can change the refractive index of vacuum. I placed the inner layer inside the hull only so it can freely emit light / radiate heat.
 
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Perfect laser shielding..great..
..I think we need to invest into true particle beams and Repulsor inspired plasma weapons.
 
Though we have moved on, I'd like to point out -

Yes, I always said that it is entirely possible the Skylian Blitz won't happen. But we haven't done anything such that such a change would occur this soon.

The Blitz was a response to human pressure in the Verge - all we have done is increased that human pressure. The various pirates banded together out of anger, backed by the Batarian govt fearful of growing human influence...if anything, that should happen sooner as the Alliance is more successful in this setting thanks to us. Elysium was chosen for its location, reputed safety, and the fact that it's the richest colony in the region - none of that has changed either.
 
Vacuum has refractive index of 1.
Okay, so you're trying to get a solid object to have a refractive index of less than 1. Even laying aside that I'm pretty sure this would require a perfectly monochromatic laser of infinite length, you're still trying to make a solid object have less effect on light than nothing. Mass effect fields can do just about anything, but you're pushing a bit to far there.
 
Okay, so you're trying to get a solid object to have a refractive index of less than 1. Even laying aside that I'm pretty sure this would require a perfectly monochromatic laser of infinite length, you're still trying to make a solid object have less effect on light than nothing. Mass effect fields can do just about anything, but you're pushing a bit to far there.
I gave you a direct quote.
Light travels slower through glass than it does through open air; light also moves slower in conventional space than it does in a high-speed mass effect field. This causes refraction: any light entering a mass effect field will change in angle and be separated into a spectrum. Objects outside the affected ship will appear refracted. The greater the difference between the objective (exterior) and subjective (interior) speeds of light, the greater the refraction.

Mass Effect has this effect. The stronger the mass lightening field, the faster the lightspeed, the closer to zero the refractive coefficient is. It's in the codex, it's what's happening in the universe.

Also, from the wiki:
A widespread misconception is that since, according to the theory of relativity, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in vacuum, the refractive index cannot be lower than 1. This is erroneous since the refractive index measures the phase velocity of light, which does not carry information. The phase velocity is the speed at which the crests of the wave move and can be faster than the speed of light in vacuum, and thereby give a refractive index below 1. This can occur close to resonance frequencies, for absorbing media, in plasmas, and for x-rays. In the x-ray regime the refractive indices are lower than but very close to 1 (exceptions close to some resonance frequencies).[13] As an example, water has a refractive index of 0.99999974 = 1 − 2.6×10−7​ for x-ray radiation at a photon energy of 30 keV (0.04 nm wavelength).[13]
For plasmas it's natural to have a refractive index lower than one.

in real life, however, this isn't because of the change in C, so we don't see the "really strange" effect. But refractive indexes of less than one are perfectly real, even without mass effect.


So, yeah, I'm not pushing it at all. Mass effect can be used like that, it's in the codex.
 
I gave you a direct quote.

Mass Effect has this effect. The stronger the mass lightening field, the faster the lightspeed, the closer to zero the refractive coefficient is. It's in the codex, it's what's happening in the universe.
Okay, so why isn't every mass lightening field a perfect mirror? Because they don't work that way. Either the codex is oversimplifying, which is probably true since according to the FTL codex, mass effect does not actually change the speed of light, but rather does something akin to creating negative mass. Or total internal reflection simply does not happen under mass effect physics.
 
Okay, so why isn't every mass lightening field a perfect mirror?
Have we ever seen FTL grade mass lightening fields in the game? I mean, actually seen it?
Because they don't work that way.
They do. It says so right there in the quote.
Either the codex is oversimplifying, which is probably true since according to the FTL codex, mass effect does not actually change the speed of light, but rather does something akin to creating negative mass.
Umm, no, codex says that mass effect changes the speed of light. It's right there:
light also moves slower in conventional space than it does in a high-speed mass effect field.
See? Light moves slower in normal space = light moves faster in mass effect affected space = speed of light is faster
Or total internal reflection simply does not happen under mass effect physics.
Why wouldn't it?
 
Have we ever seen FTL grade mass lightening fields in the game? I mean, actually seen it?
Yes. Quite often:
Also:
Umm, no, codex says that mass effect changes the speed of light. It's right there:

Ahem:
Codex FTL said:
It reduces the mass of an object, such as a starship, to a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible. With a mass effect drive, roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in the course of a day's cruise without bending space-time and causing time dilation.
 
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You realize that it's from the point of view within ME field, don't you? Or an artistic rendition. Because the ship is visible. And blue shift would have meant that it would appear to be X-ray colored.

No, I can only call it an artistic rendition, nothing else makes sense at all. Like, completely.

Yes, exactly. Without bending space-time. Nowhere does it say that it warps space or anything like that. In fact, we know that the lowest it can go is zero mass - mass relays are without a doubt greatest applications of ME, and they create "corridors of massless space".

Mass effect lowers mass, and, simultaneously, increases C. That's how it works, the index is quite consistent on that. FTL page just doesn't add "and increases the speed of light" to "lowers mass"
 
You realize that it's from the point of view within ME field, don't you?
No, it isn't. you can see the edges of the field.
nothing else makes sense at all. Like, completely.
Or your interpretation is wrong. edit: No, wait. apparently it's blueshifted thermal emissions.
Yes, exactly. Without bending space-time.
The value of c is a physical consent. Changing it requires bending, or outright breaking, spacetime. That's what physical constant means.
 
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