Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

[X] Plan Kelenas

Strangely my biggest draw to this plan over yog's is the clean break... ever since the quest had Brian planning to join the alliance I felt we needed to cut things off.. there are simply too many problems. Frankly I believe they are not ready for a serious relationship in any case.
 
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Strangely my biggest draw to this plan over yog's is the clean break... ever since the quest had Brian planning to join the alliance I felt we needed to cut things off.. there are simply too many problems. Frankley I believe they are not ready for a serious relationship in any case.

That I can absolutely change; I have no strong feelings about that one. Are there other things you feel are wrong? I am ready to argue in support of my proposal.
 
Most seem to want Mordin, hence the focus on Biology/Medicine/Genetics, but there's also mention of AI/Computers for the possibility of getting Daro'Xen.

Why in all the world would we want her? I mean presumably there will eventually be AI research, where we will turn Cortana into full AI?

Xen is basically a crazy bigot who believes AI exist to be slaves to be used and abused by organics. Thats not really the kind of person I want helping us develop our AIs. I would prefer our AIs NOT have fully justifiable and valid reasons to hate and despire us.
 
As I argued, invisible man is important as it is a) likely a prerequisite for more advanced research and b) synergies well with advanced missiles. Stealth is very important. And it's an advanced material research. Which is important too.
Except that it isn't stealth. It's optical camoflage, which is nice against the Mk I Eyeball and the like, but it doesn't do anything against he advanced sensors that military, paramilitary, and most likely even many civilian hardsuits and vehicles will field.
Again; it's follow-up technologies are nice, but on its own, it's useless, and we're better off researching more important stuff, first.
Missiles are in no way superfluous. Our current ones were designed more than a year ago and to work against the pre-arc reactor vehicles. That just won't work. We have a claim to fame in "our missiles can one-shot any vehicle defense". This claim must be maintained for PR, political and scientific reasons. We have to show that the speed of armaments development outstrips the speed of armor / defense development.
They are. Even with us now selling Arc Reactors to the Citadel, it'll still be a while until they sufficiently proliferate for this to become an issue, and by then
As for frigates and shipyards. Yes, that's important, and I agree, but I believe that it can wait one one-and-a-half turn. Especially with Mk 2 coming in, which I really want to work on. But, as a compromise, I am prepared to swap Mk2 for frigates, though I think that it (Mk 2) is a better choice.
Yeah, no. Even if you'd do that I'd still stick with my own plan, because you're still researching things that are either useless on their own, or currently unnecessary.
For biology, I really think that a hanar researcher would be better. Mordin has too big a baggage with him. Daro'Xen is... not very sane for one, in my opinion, and a quarian to the bone for two, which is a point against her, as everything she does and gets access to will be sent to the flotilla.
We're not going to pick our research heroes by race.
Why in all the world would we want her? I mean presumably there will eventually be AI research, where we will turn Cortana into full AI?

Xen is basically a crazy bigot who believes AI exist to be slaves to be used and abused by organics. Thats not really the kind of person I want helping us develop our AIs. I would prefer our AIs NOT have fully justifiable and valid reasons to hate and despire us.
*shrug* I wouldn't want her, but someone brought it up, so I figured I'd at least mention the possibility. Personally, my preference would be towards finding a researcher for shield-technology, because shields that can block GARDIAN-fire would be another gamechanger.

Most popular seems a hero for bio-technology (ie, genetics, medicine, etc), though?
 
I'm more in favor of the energy shield research, since we really need that started before we start working on lasers heavily.

The biology stuff is nice, but the only time pressure on that was to get it while Shepard was still young enough to benefit. I don't think we should start going after curing the galaxy's medical problems until we have our tech base solid and a bunch more research dice.

I do like Yog's idea to get a presence on earth, but I'd rather get frigates done now and the missile/stealth done later.
 
Except that it isn't stealth. It's optical camoflage, which is nice against the Mk I Eyeball and the like, but it doesn't do anything against he advanced sensors that military, paramilitary, and most likely even many civilian hardsuits and vehicles will field.
Again; it's follow-up technologies are nice, but on its own, it's useless, and we're better off researching more important stuff, first.
I disagree. I'm relatively sure that, at the moment, inbuilt active--by-default sensor packages are a standard equipment for soldiers.
They are. Even with us now selling Arc Reactors to the Citadel, it'll still be a while until they sufficiently proliferate for this to become an issue, and by then
It's not Citadel I'm thinking about, it's the alliance. We are competing against alliance companies, and there our primary competitors had at least a year to work out counter-measures to the missiles. We need to maintain an overwhelming advantage of firepower over armor. Arc reactors aren't the only way to negate our basic three stage warhead. Point defense systems are viable. I expect current alliance designs to have lots of them, and probably some other tricks as well.
Yeah, no. Even if you'd do that I'd still stick with my own plan, because you're still researching things that are either useless on their own, or currently unnecessary.
My plan focuses on long-term perspectives, not sacrificing them for momentary gains (but neither truly compromising those). But ok. Still, at least add moving to Earth. It's an important step, and, if we want to get best researchers, it's the best one.
We're not going to pick our research heroes by race.
You mean species. And why? You can't make "it's racist" argument, because there are valid physical and societal differences between different species. They have different education, very different mentality, different physiology.
 
Visual cloaking and basic radar jammers, which a legionary's VI can already do, make infantry a goddamn nightmare to fight in close combat. The Geth use that trick all the time.
 
Just popping in to say that the Invisible Man is not useless. I dont charge you for useless things. Its not perfect either, of course.

Does this mean that to get the Normandy stealth systems early, we ill have to research this first?

Also....I was thinking...is it possible to swap out the lithium heat sinks for carbon ones to improve the stealth time?

Would it be possible to research a way to get cheaper carbon nano-structures?
 
Just popping in to say that the Invisible Man is not useless. I dont charge you for useless things. Its not perfect either, of course.
Question: if we develop new missiles this turn, will we be able to equip our IFV with them for the competition? Or at least demonstrate them at the competition as a possible equipment for our IFV?
 
I do like Yog's idea to get a presence on earth, but I'd rather get frigates done now and the missile/stealth done later.
No doubt we'll eventually expand to Sol/Earth, but I think it's also important that we build up infrastructure in the various colonies; that way we're more decentralized, and don't have all of our eggs in one basket, which should help when the Reapers come.
I disagree. I'm relatively sure that, at the moment, inbuilt active--by-default sensor packages are a standard equipment for soldiers.
From ME1, we know that all hardsuits have at minimum some short-range RADAR analogue, which "Invisible Man" doesn't counter. And likewise I seriously doubt that in 150+ years military hardsuits won't have additional modes of vision, such as thermal, as part of the standard package. Which Invisible Man, *again*, doesn't do anything against.
It might not be an entirely useless gimmick, but against any even halfway serious security measures or military forces I don't expect it to do much. It's main use, the way I see it, is as a stepping stone towards true Cloak and/or Normandy-style Stealth In Space, and that can wait until we have more R&D capabilities available.
It's not Citadel I'm thinking about, it's the alliance. We are competing against alliance companies, and there our primary competitors had at least a year to work out counter-measures to the missiles. We need to maintain an overwhelming advantage of firepower over armor. Arc reactors aren't the only way to negate our basic three stage warhead. Point defense systems are viable. I expect current alliance designs to have lots of them, and probably some other tricks as well.
So? Unless the Alliance suddenly intends to start a civil war, it's completely irrelevant if our competition starts fielding more point-defenses.
My plan focuses on long-term perspectives, not sacrificing them for momentary gains (but neither truly compromising those). But ok. Still, at least add moving to Earth. It's an important step, and, if we want to get best researchers, it's the best one.
As far as I see, you're doing exactly that; compromising the long-term for short-term gains.
You mean species. And why? You can't make "it's racist" argument, because there are valid physical and societal differences between different species. They have different education, very different mentality, different physiology.
Because it's silly and pointless, as I seriously doubt that Esbilon will be actually modelling any of that?
Not to mention that I'd simply rather not limit our possible options.
Just popping in to say that the Invisible Man is not useless. I dont charge you for useless things. Its not perfect either, of course.
The way I see it it's more of a stepping stone towards better stealth systems.

Also, is an "either/or" for the scientist headhunt acceptable?
To be specific:
-[] Either look for someone with experience in Shielding/Barrier technology, in hopes that we might be able to design shields that can protect against DEWs, or search for an individual with experience in various areas of biotechnology, such as medicine, genetics, cybernetics, and so on.

Given that I'm not sure which people are more interested in.
Visual cloaking and basic radar jammers, which a legionary's VI can already do, make infantry a goddamn nightmare to fight in close combat. The Geth use that trick all the time.
Maybe, but our Legionaries are *already* a nightmare to fight, so it doesn't really add anything new. On the other hand, ships that require no fuel and carry much more cargo are a major gamechanger in economy, logistics, and so on.
 
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That I can absolutely change; I have no strong feelings about that one. Are there other things you feel are wrong? I am ready to argue in support of my proposal.

For the tech it was a lot more tricky.. frankly I can see the advantages of starting cruisers now or starting later. However in the end I would like to get the important things underway before becoming distracted with other things. and well I don't want to get stuck with ME3 gimmick end. If we want to ignore the conduit and its choices we will need ships. The sort of personal combat/stealth/spec ops approach would just get us to conduit more easily. And as I stated above, in the end I prefer starting sooner to later.
 
Yog...I don't get it. Why do you think we need the improved warhead to compete with anyone? Who has the barriers capable of withstanding our current missiles?
 
Yog...I don't get it. Why do you think we need the improved warhead to compete with anyone? Who has the barriers capable of withstanding our current missiles?
We were told IC that people would be developing countermeasure to beat our advantages they know about, since they can't improve shield or armor enough to matter ERA and Point defense are the next best possibilities.
 
Yog...I don't get it. Why do you think we need the improved warhead to compete with anyone? Who has the barriers capable of withstanding our current missiles?
In a couple of quarters, pretty much everyone in the Council races. The only advancement we made was hooking them up to an insane power supply. And now we're selling those power supplys to the Citadel.
 
Question:
Also, is an "either/or" for the scientist headhunt acceptable?
To be specific:
-[] Either look for someone with experience in Shielding/Barrier technology, in hopes that we might be able to design shields that can protect against DEWs, or search for an individual with experience in various areas of biotechnology, such as medicine, genetics, cybernetics, and so on.

Given that I'm not sure which people are more interested in.
 
@Kelenas how would you consider this, as a compromise (because I really want those missiles):

[]Peak human 30d10+40
Labs 0+I+II
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI)
10d10 + 10 (VI)
Probability of success: 86.6%, average overflow: 17 points
[] Improved Warhead (150) 20d10+50
Research Teams
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary)+ 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary)+ 10 (research lab)
Probability of success: 79.2%, average overflow: 10 points
[] Frigates (400) 60d10+120
Conrad
10d10 + 10 (VI)
Research Teams
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary)
Revy
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
Bonus
0d0+50
Probability of success: 98.9%, average overflow: 50 points
[] Mk II Suit (500) (overflow) 30d10
Revy
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
Probability of success: 0%, average overflow: - 255 point

For comparison, your plan gives us:
[] Peak Human (212/400) - 40d10
Probability of success: 96.3%, average overflow: 32 points
[] Frigates (400) - 60d10+120
Probability of success: 98.9%, average overflow: 50 points
[] Mk II Suit (500) - 40d10+40 + 50 (Reference) + (Overflow)
Probability of success: 0.08%, average overflow: - 108 points

The probabilities are higher, but 1 in about 8 chance of failure with the peak human isn't a big enough cost, in my opinion, to offset getting warheads this turn.

No doubt we'll eventually expand to Sol/Earth, but I think it's also important that we build up infrastructure in the various colonies; that way we're more decentralized, and don't have all of our eggs in one basket, which should help when the Reapers come.
I am not arguing that we shouldn't also build in colonies. I am arguning that we should first build at Sol, as it would give us biggest payoffs.
From ME1, we know that all hardsuits have at minimum some short-range RADAR analogue, which "Invisible Man" doesn't counter.
You forget radar jamming. Which is a thing.
And likewise I seriously doubt that in 150+ years military hardsuits won't have additional modes of vision, such as thermal, as part of the standard package. Which Invisible Man, *again*, doesn't do anything against.
Thermal in combat is almost useless because of all the flashes of heat from, you know, weaponry being fired all around. Too much noise.
It might not be an entirely useless gimmick, but against any even halfway serious security measures or military forces I don't expect it to do much. It's main use, the way I see it, is as a stepping stone towards true Cloak and/or Normandy-style Stealth In Space, and that can wait until we have more R&D capabilities available.
I strongly disagree. In combat it's a serious force multiplier forcing enemy to rely of failable equipment with serious drawbacks that can be countered. Outside of combat it's, again, a serious force multiplier.
So? Unless the Alliance suddenly intends to start a civil war, it's completely irrelevant if our competition starts fielding more point-defenses.
No, it's not. What is our long-term goal? To defeat Reapers. We need our competitors to develop things too - we can't and shouldn't do everything by ourselves. By showing them that offense can be developed faster than classical defense, we'll be forcing them to look for alternatives simply to stay afloat. This means that they'll be developing other means of countering our technology. Which is good.

Because it's silly and pointless, as I seriously doubt that Esbilon will be actually modelling any of that?
We could ask him, you know. @Esbilon , will you take into account race differences when considering different research heroes? Such as Drell having photographic memories and interest in bio research to cure Kolpar (spelling?) syndrome, Hanar having inhuman thought patterns, advanced 3d thinking, and religious tone their knowledge of genetics would have, etc?
Not to mention that I'd simply rather not limit our possible options.
It's not limiting, it's stating preferences / focusing our search.

Maybe, but our Legionaries are *already* a nightmare to fight, so it doesn't really add anything new. On the other hand, ships that require no fuel and carry much more cargo are a major gamechanger in economy, logistics, and so on.
It's a force multiplier, and it can be applied to more than a Legionary.
Ok. Shame, and it does lower the usefulness of getting it this turn, but, still, I think it's worth it in general.
 
We were told IC that people would be developing countermeasure to beat our advantages they know about, since they can't improve shield or armor enough to matter ERA and Point defense are the next best possibilities.
In a couple of quarters, pretty much everyone in the Council races. The only advancement we made was hooking them up to an insane power supply. And now we're selling those power supplys to the Citadel.
That's not really how it works. At least, not for the economic competition. Even if other companies outfit their equipment with better point-defenses, it won't change the fact that people will keep buying the Pilum, because it's still the best missile out there.
 
That's not really how it works. At least, not for the economic competition. Even if other companies outfit their equipment with better point-defenses, it won't change the fact that people will keep buying the Pilum, because it's still the best missile out there.
It's not about economics. It's about vectors of technological development. If point defense systems are effective, they'll be developed and advanced. If they are not, something else will be considered.
 
That's not really how it works. At least, not for the economic competition. Even if other companies outfit their equipment with better point-defenses, it won't change the fact that people will keep buying the Pilum, because it's still the best missile out there.
If point defenses get good enough to deal with small scale missiles demand for ALL small scale missiles will decrease, that we'll still have the largest slice of the pie is small consolation if the pie is shrinking.
 
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