Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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Note the following.
Basically, we bought the tech, then promptly upgraded it to use our technology. No research dice spent whatsoever.
Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)
- Thread starter Esbilon
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Note the following.
Basically, we bought the tech, then promptly upgraded it to use our technology. No research dice spent whatsoever.
In principle it's a good idea, especially because as we saw in biotics a synchronized net of eezo nodules is a very efficient thing, more efficient, I'd wager, than a single big core.
Well yeah. We just ripped out it's power core, put some Arc Reactors in it and slapped on some hardpoints. That's barely worth noting.
Part of this comes down to the fact that vehicles that operate within an atmosphere, especially on the ground, are very different to things that operate in space.
I mean we likely could just buy the designs for a frigate, swap the reactor for a AR, the engine for repulsors and the hull plating for the Lorica but it wouldn't be much better then a comparable frigate while a completely redesigned one would be.
This is also true.
Regarding moving off world, you are free to do so whenever you'd like. However, you can only build one applied research lab at a time, and they must be built in succession, so expanding to a new world before you have a lab 3 on your current one does not benefit you.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
About the PMC - of course we can expand to another planet without one, but if we are going to be hiring that many security teams, we might as well takes things a step further.
For the Mako/Tiger thing...actually, we can say dice were needed. Think of it as the cost of their design being paid via bonus points from the write-up.
For the Mako/Tiger thing...actually, we can say dice were needed. Think of it as the cost of their design being paid via bonus points from the write-up.
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
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- Planet Earth, North America
Here's some other ridiculous shit humans have done:I actually meant in humans...
But that does remind me that humans with advanced genetic manipulation tech would really piss them off.
After all we have Einstein* level geniuses, people who can run for so long it's the lack of sleep that stops them, people who can lift over three hundred kilograms, and people who can run ten meters per second.
Just imagine how crazy all that would be in a single person and multiply that by every soldier in the Alliance military.
*Even genetic engineering couldn't reach Revy levels
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/list.html
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/high-end-human-calcs.147499/
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/physical-human-feats.285206/
Hope this helps.
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Paragon Industries ships are going to be so hax, they're going to trigger an immediate DO WANT response in everyone.
Without heat build-up from engines and reactors, they last longer in combat.
Without the need to refuel either their fuel or reaction mass, they're endurance is higher.
The greatly reduced size of the reactor (no turbines required, unlike fusion), means more space to pack payload into.
And then we go ahead and introduce CAPITAL GRADE LASERS.
Do you know what those do to the balance of power? They make it go cry in the corner.
Suddenly any ship will out-range a dreadnought. Suddenly kinetic barriers aren't helping you at all.
Lasers might not have the straight up energy levels or penetration power of kinetics, but they also out-range kinetics and bypass kinetic barriers completely.
edit: Let's put some numbers on this:
A 1 PJ laser is equivalent to 239 kilotons of firepower, that's more than six times the power of an 800 m dreadnought gun.
SB calculated that the low end mass driver firepower for a 200 m accelerator is 2.53 terrajoules. So if we mount a few 1 TJ lasers, we'll have the equivalent of a spinal gun that will out-range any kinetics by a ludicrous margin.
Not only that, but we don't even have to actually damage the enemy. We can sacrifice penetration power for a diffuse beam that will make the enemy overheat from being unable to dump heat because our laser is shining on their radiators.
Without heat build-up from engines and reactors, they last longer in combat.
Without the need to refuel either their fuel or reaction mass, they're endurance is higher.
The greatly reduced size of the reactor (no turbines required, unlike fusion), means more space to pack payload into.
And then we go ahead and introduce CAPITAL GRADE LASERS.
Do you know what those do to the balance of power? They make it go cry in the corner.
Suddenly any ship will out-range a dreadnought. Suddenly kinetic barriers aren't helping you at all.
Lasers might not have the straight up energy levels or penetration power of kinetics, but they also out-range kinetics and bypass kinetic barriers completely.
edit: Let's put some numbers on this:
A 1 PJ laser is equivalent to 239 kilotons of firepower, that's more than six times the power of an 800 m dreadnought gun.
SB calculated that the low end mass driver firepower for a 200 m accelerator is 2.53 terrajoules. So if we mount a few 1 TJ lasers, we'll have the equivalent of a spinal gun that will out-range any kinetics by a ludicrous margin.
Not only that, but we don't even have to actually damage the enemy. We can sacrifice penetration power for a diffuse beam that will make the enemy overheat from being unable to dump heat because our laser is shining on their radiators.
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You know, when you put it that way... Out first ship is going to be a personal frigate, right? Something we can just go ahead and live on to avoid kidnappers? because we're never going to get any rest otherwise.
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Of course. The space version of the Stark Jet at least.
I wonder if we can use SD tech to build a mothership class vessel...
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
You know, we'll really need to come up with some anti-laser countermeasures in light of these improvements we plan to make. Indoctrination means the Reapers are going to get their hands on at least a few, after all, and we don't want to get our sh*t completely wrecked by our own tech. Would better armor be of any use? Maybe the Superalloys and Unobtainium technologies might be effective against lasers?
As for the ship, I think it'd be awesome to build ourselves a personal cruiser; more room to cram luxuries and an R&D facility on. Our own superdreadnought would be ideal, of course, but we should take it one step at a time.
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Basically, yes. Solid armor is going to be the way to go. Our superalloys and unobtanium might be best, but if we can mass manufacture diamondoid, that would work very well.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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You know, we're going to be making enough money, I wonder if we could heavily invest in our PMC to protect Alliance colonies the Alliance is overstretched to defend. Just offer our services at cost (with a very, very small profit margin) to colonies out in the Verge or Traverse. A few ShepTech frigates are going to suffice to smash anything that isn't several full-up cruisers and escorts, and a few squads of Mark 1.5's deploying from Tigers will do just fine to mop up anything that gets through them.
Yeah. We start with a frigate. Something like the SR2, in contents, not design I mean. Private quarters, small lab, wet bar (Seriously, why did the Normandy have a wet bar?) , and a security team for emergencies. Upgrade to a cruiser when we can and eventually have a flying Lab 3 complex in a dreadnought hull.
If you thought that was bad, throw the Normandy's stealth system on that.
Now you have a ship which can operate for days completely undetected. It doesn't even need a Tantalus drive since Repulsors don't emit heat or propellent so there is no glowing engine wake to detect.
That's pretty scary but now consider that lasers are invisible. While you can see a laser in atmosphere due to it scattering off the air that's not true in space.
So those giant death beams would be slicing and dicing enemy ships without revealing anything more then a general "he's to our left!" and given the ranges that's no help at all.
Invisible murder machines that can spend hours if not days as such.
Now you have a ship which can operate for days completely undetected. It doesn't even need a Tantalus drive since Repulsors don't emit heat or propellent so there is no glowing engine wake to detect.
That's pretty scary but now consider that lasers are invisible. While you can see a laser in atmosphere due to it scattering off the air that's not true in space.
So those giant death beams would be slicing and dicing enemy ships without revealing anything more then a general "he's to our left!" and given the ranges that's no help at all.
Invisible murder machines that can spend hours if not days as such.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
As I recall ordinary battleships are equipped with ablative armor that "boils away" when heated to sort of scatter the beams energy, but the Normandy SR-2 could be outfitted with Silaris heavy ship armor which... I don't remember, something about carbon nanotube sheets woven with diamond crushed by mass effect fields to make super-dense layers or something. Is that already a thing by this point in time, and how effective will that be against laser weapons?
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Actually, even our best lasers are going to have inefficiencies, and when you're putting terrajoules downrange, you'll have terrajoules in waste heat from the laser to dissipate. We're going to need to implement Succession style energy sink manifolds:
For us this would involve using ME fields to constrain radiator pellets.
A sufficiently high-powered laser would cut through your hull at light speed, meaning that you might not even know if he was to your left or your right, just that he's on that line.
Also, Science vessels are a thing that should happen. You can move Revy's private lab onto a light cruiser (which is really what the Normandy SR-2 was), a Lab I onto a heavy cruiser, a Lab II onto a Dreadnaught and a Lab III onto a superdreadnaught. They still have to be built in succession.
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The short answer is rather effective.
The diamond has some of the best heats of vaporization of any known material, and the woven nanotubes will be great for distributing the kinetic energy imparted by pulsed laser strikes blowing holes in the armor.
I'm guessing that the Destiny Ascenion and the Quarian Lifeships fall under "Superdreadnoughts"?
Hm... I'm wondering if the Quarians might be willing to cut a deal; we develop some kind of treatment that removes the problems with their immune system, they give us ship-technologies.
Would something like that be possible?
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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@Esbilon I think you missed my suggestion about Eclipse Phase Medichines... http://eclipsephaserules.wikia.com/wiki/Medichines
We wouldn't need all the functions, but they're basically prosthetic immune systems in many ways. Perhaps this might significantly help Quarians?
We wouldn't need all the functions, but they're basically prosthetic immune systems in many ways. Perhaps this might significantly help Quarians?
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
The quarians would probably be really touchy about an outsider wanting the specs of their liveships. They've only got 3 of the things, and if they lost even one millions of them would starve. Offering them a fix for their immune systems would definitely get you huge goodwill from them, but they'd be pretty suspicious until you proved it worked. Plus, although the liveships are huge, they're neither well-armed nor well-armored, and aren't intended as military vessels at all, so they might not have everything we need to make actual superdreadnoughts.
I did not, I lumped them in with Kelenas's, Yog's and possibly others' suggestions for expanding the tech tree which I will look into during the weekend.
And potentially, yes, something like that could be very helpful to the Quarians.
Getting detailed (military/national secret level detailed) specs on advanced ship design from any of the major species would give research credit towards building the larger ships. Getting specs from multiple species would give partial credit on top of that.
Even if we don't get the full techs, getting data that the Quarians have on ships (and keep in mind that they have a *lot* of different vessels in their fleet, which makes for a large sample-size) should help us with our own research.
(Ninja'd by GM)
Also, don't just think in terms of military vessels, either. If you can't think of uses for huge-ass ships, you're not thinking hard enough.
For starters, there's the possibility of turning them into carriers, where their comparative lack of armor, weapons and shields isn't much of a detriment. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those things could carry thousands of fighters, for example.
For another, there's the potential that lifeships would have for colonization. Not only can they carry a *shitload* of people, with their size they can also be outfitted with hydroponic, refinery, and manufacturing sectors. So you can simply take one of these, together with a bunch of survey and asteroid/planetoid mining vehicles, then move the whole thing into a system you want to colonize, and start bootstrapping the colony's infrastructure with it.
Just some things that come to mind.
(Ninja'd by GM)
Also, don't just think in terms of military vessels, either. If you can't think of uses for huge-ass ships, you're not thinking hard enough.
For starters, there's the possibility of turning them into carriers, where their comparative lack of armor, weapons and shields isn't much of a detriment. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those things could carry thousands of fighters, for example.
For another, there's the potential that lifeships would have for colonization. Not only can they carry a *shitload* of people, with their size they can also be outfitted with hydroponic, refinery, and manufacturing sectors. So you can simply take one of these, together with a bunch of survey and asteroid/planetoid mining vehicles, then move the whole thing into a system you want to colonize, and start bootstrapping the colony's infrastructure with it.
Just some things that come to mind.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good idea or that we'd only be using them as battleships, I'm just pointing out that you'd probably have to jump through some serious hoops before the quarians even considered handing over the secrets of one of their most vital technologies.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
Incidentally, does anyone have any opinions on my idea to make a weaker, cheaper version of the Legionary armor? I figure we could market it to sell to civilian militias, military support personnel like engineers and gunners, and maybe security personnel (except for ours, of course. Paragon Industries employees only get the best stuff).