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Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

Van Ropen said:
If we want AI, there is a very clear path to follow. Secure public support so we cannot be attacked from that angle, secure political goodwill from the Council governments, and become the fifth certified researcher. Knock the ball out of the park, leverage the massive public goodwill we have from our biotech advances to push for a shift in the view on AI while we start putting them to work.
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Public support, and the implied public campaigning, is not how you get a research grant; that's how you change public policy or get a favored politician elected. We're not doing any of that. All we need is the political goodwill and, more importantly, the willingness and ability to comply with the same restrictions and regulations that the other four companies abide by. The "AI License Prep" research target should get us in compliance with whatever regs we aren't already in compliance with (I assume a decent security setup is the biggest prereq, and we're pretty good there).

As for political goodwill, we already have a proven track record of successful, revolutionary research in Citadel space with our Arc Reactor patent. Really, becoming lucky number five on the list of AI research companies should not require the sorts of investments you are insisting we have; it's not like starting a research project is anything like putting out an illegal product for mass distribution, like what Sirta is doing with medi-gel, or creating, distributing, and failing to control a synthetic slave race, like the Quarians did illegally with the Geth.

In the end that's what got the Quarians in trouble: massive, uncontrolled planetwide distribution of an emergent intelligence, which they then decided to try to destroy rather than reason with or negotiate. Our research isn't going anywhere near the distribution side, not now and maybe not ever. We might not even get to looking at commercial applications for this tech at all. I don't actually want to have an AI servant class: we already have VIs for that, which don't dreg up morality questions about subjugating a sentient race.
 
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TheEyes said:
Public support, and the implied public campaigning, is not how you get a research grant; that's how you change public policy or get a favored politician elected. We're not doing any of that. All we need is the political goodwill and, more importantly, the willingness and ability to comply with the same restrictions and regulations that the other four companies abide by. The "AI License Prep" research target should get us in compliance with whatever regs we aren't already in compliance with (I assume a decent security setup is the biggest prereq, and we're pretty good there).

As for political goodwill, we already have a proven track record of successful, revolutionary research in Citadel space with our Arc Reactor patent. Really, becoming lucky number five on the list of AI research companies should not require the sorts of investments you are insisting we have; it's not like starting a research project is anything like putting out an illegal product for mass distribution, like what Sirta is doing with medi-gel or trying to create a massive slave race, like the Quarians did with the Geth. In the end that's what got them in trouble: massive, uncontrolled planetwide distribution. Our research isn't going anywhere near the massive distribution side, not now and maybe not ever. I don't actually want to have an AI servant class: we already have VIs for that, which don't dreg up morality questions about subjugating a sentient race.
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Yeah, and completing the AI License Prep doesn't actually get us the permission to do research. That is a purely political thing - you honestly think the Council gives a single fuck about our potential for revolutionary research? If anything, that will work against us.


I don't think you understand just how hot-button an issue AI tech is in the ME universe, nor the political climate that existed at this time in the canon OTL (to say nothing of how it has changed as a result of our actions). It absolutely will require these investments, you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
 
tenchifew said:
...and we can get rid of _a lot_ of red tape in one simple move - by buying Synthetic Insights wholesale.
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There's an idea. Might take a while to scrape together the money to buy one of the four AI research companies (or at least their AI research division), but maybe something to look into.

Van Ropen said:
Yeah, and completing the AI License Prep doesn't actually get us the permission to do research. That is a purely political thing - you honestly think the Council gives a single fuck about our potential for revolutionary research? If anything, that will work against us.
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If revolutionary research is irrelevant or a hindrance to political goodwill, then why do you think flooding the market with more revolutionary research is going to gain us goodwill? You're acting like releasing Peak Alien and Human Immortality are prerequisites for us being taken seriously enough as researchers to be allowed near AI research. Obviously that isn't the case because there are four companies doing AI research already, and nobody has been made immortal yet.

I don't think you understand just how hot-button an issue AI tech is in the ME universe, nor the political climate that existed at this time in the canon OTL (to say nothing of how it has changed as a result of our actions). It absolutely will require these investments, you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
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And I think you're over-estimating how hot-button the issue is to most of the galaxy, especially since this is pre-2183 and before the Geth invaded the Citadel with their, "experimental dreadnought," Sovereign. Again, there are four companies doing exactly what we want to be doing, legally. It should not require releasing impossibly advanced technology to the public to be company number five, since I have real doubts that companies one through four have done what you're insisting we do.
 
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TheEyes said:
If revolutionary research is irrelevant or a hindrance to political goodwill, then why do you think flooding the market with more revolutionary research is going to gain us goodwill? You're acting like releasing Peak Alien and Human Immortality are prerequisites for us being taken seriously enough as researchers to be allowed near AI research. Obviously that isn't the case because there are four companies doing AI research already, and nobody has been made immortal yet.
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Because the revolutionary research being proposed is something no politician can argue against without looking like a retard. I NEVER suggested they are prerequisites for being taken seriously as a researcher, they are necessary to be taken seriously from a political standpoint.

And I think you're over-estimating how hot-button the issue is to most of the galaxy, especially since this is pre-2183 and before the Geth invaded the Citadel with their, "experimental dreadnought," Sovereign. Again, there are four companies doing exactly what we want to be doing, legally. It should not require releasing impossibly advanced technology to the public to be company number five, since I have real doubts that companies one through four have done what you're insisting we do.
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No. Anti-AI sentiment is strong even Pre-Geth...remember that in light of the rebellion, the Council had all AI in Citadel Space destroyed (though that does raise interesting questions about what is out in Terminus Space...). That was only 300 years ago, there are no doubt plenty of Asari politicians still in power now that were in power then. Turian-Human relations are likewise still much frostier now than they will be in a decade, to say nothing of what the recent increase in Alliance strength has caused.

Why are you making this about science? It was never about science, it was about politics. Remember - we're that uppity human little bitch who is dangerously unbalancing the status quo, possibly through the abuse of a hidden Prothean cache. Until we come at them from a position of relative strength, they aren't going to give us anything.

Offering them tech which greatly strengthens their race and earns us massive public goodwill is the way around that issue.
 
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Here's an idea, why don't we work around some of those issues. Synthetic Insights works on high-end VI considering our recent advances with said technology why don't we at least set up a side project for a more advanced VI before releasing that and get permission from the councillors to set up a similar platform to SI especially if we show how much VI has allowed us to make the stuff they want we could possibly set out a decent enough case for it...
 
We have already advanced our VI tech such that it would make us tons of cash. In fact, we have researched all possible computer tech on the tree as of now save Optical Computing, which is a project scheduled to be completed ASAP.


We decided not to release it in order to retain a competitive edge in terms of electronic security.


You're right, it might be a solid bargaining tool when the time comes to go for the AI...but that's not exactly the problem. We don't need to prove our capabilities to the Council, those should be damn obvious (though it may help by at least making our case look better to any public scrutiny). Nothing is worked around, the political situation remains unchanged - that situation is what we need to address.
 
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Perhaps making contact with the Geth? If we can convince them that people are far more likely to leave them alone if they move to a star system off of the relay network then broker a treaty between them and the Quarians for return of Rannoch in return for some mining techniques to help them build their Dyson sphere. Judging by the Geth in ME3 the main problems would be the Quarians and chatting up Zaal'Koris before the others on the board and have some dialogue between the two races would make it significantly easier.

It's not like they can die so they can be patient enough to go to a star system say 50 light years away? I think citadel races only colonise within 20 light years of a relay so they would not be disturbed, and they only lose what 300 years of progress (yes I know that is a lot but compared the many millennia the Geth could live it's not actually that much) and the galaxy is arming up quite quickly so it would be in their interest to move.
 
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Sure. But we would need an IC reason to contact the Geth.


Keep in mind they aren't total victims here - they slaughter anything that crosses the Perseus Veil for any reason and don't respond to any signals sent to them.

Bioware beating the dead horse turned them into total woobies (along with the rest of what amounts to nothing more than character assassination, fucking ME3)...we'll have to see what Esbilon does with them.
 
I mean contacting the Geth after reviewing them as they are the big "rogue AI" and that would probably turn up this phrase
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Aliens:_Non-Council_Races#Geth said:
When the geth showed signs of self-evolution, the quarians attempted to exterminate them.
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it's in the codex so quite unlikely to get missed and then you have a good reason to make a good PR coup especially since you are trying to get licensed for AI research.
 
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What PR coup? Everybody knows the Quarians fucked up, that doesn't mean the Geth don't refuse communication and kill everything that crosses the Veil.
 
The PR coup would be essentially getting the Geth to return Rannoch to the Quarians, and generally not being evil AI so the public and political sentiment against AI is reduced letting you have an easier time about getting you AI research license
 
Alright, it looks like the initial voting frenzy has died down and people have moved on to other topics of discussion. In the hope of moving things along somewhat speedily, I'm hereby calling the vote in 7 hours, at 20:00 CET.
 
Amberion said:
That's great, right up to the point where our ships get shot down when they try to enter the Veil.
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Why would you want to waste expensive ships? Just send an old drone (pre-morning war spec) through the relay with a constant broadcast to parley. After they find out what is in the completely unarmed drone's memory banks (a request for the beth to allow a single small diplomatic envoy and ask them to respond with a post on a common message board with a specific code for affirmative within a time frame). It would inexpensive and hopefully (luck roll here) effective.
 
JhonCollins said:
Why would you want to waste expensive ships? Just send an old drone (pre-morning war spec) through the relay with a constant broadcast to parley. After they find out what is in the completely unarmed drone's memory banks (a request for the beth to allow a single small diplomatic envoy and ask them to respond with a post on a common message board with a specific code for affirmative within a time frame). It would inexpensive and hopefully (luck roll here) effective.
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This (and sending actual diplomats) was tried before. Geth didn't listen and shot everything down.
 
Datakim said:
Wonder why they do that? The non-heretic geth don't seem massively hostile.
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Dunno, I'm hoping that we are lucky enough that the Geth recognise the completely unarmed message drone and decide against shooting it down or possibly just take a peek into it's memory and discover the message (pretty likely) so they may consider a parley, possibly on a private message board and hopefully they will actually think of listening to us. I'm kinda banking on the Geth being worried about the sudden rise in the galactic tech libel due to PI.
 
So we tell them that moving out of the system that close to the relay stops anyone from bothering them and they don't have the threat of the Quarians hanging over their head.
 
There is an old DS9 quote. "When Jem'hadar are involved, you die". If they wanted to be left alone. Then leave them the hell alone. Unless they want to talk to us. If one thing that geth shares with humanity, is that everyone hates Jehovah witnesses. They annoyed you until you shut them up or join them. The geth choose the extreme option and it works.
 
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JhonCollins said:
Why would you want to waste expensive ships? Just send an old drone (pre-morning war spec) through the relay with a constant broadcast to parley. After they find out what is in the completely unarmed drone's memory banks (a request for the beth to allow a single small diplomatic envoy and ask them to respond with a post on a common message board with a specific code for affirmative within a time frame). It would inexpensive and hopefully (luck roll here) effective.
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As has been said - nothing has survived crossing the Veil.


Why? Philosophy. Honestly, there was an opportunity for some interesting tension there...but as we all know, Bioware cannot into subtlety.
 
I wonder if the Citadel has any signals that the ship is a diplomatic ship, Again banking on the rising threat level and the derived fear in the Geth I don't see why they wouldn't at least take a look in the memory banks.
 
JhonCollins said:
I wonder if the Citadel has any signals that the ship is a diplomatic ship, Again banking on the rising threat level and the derived fear in the Geth I don't see why they wouldn't at least take a look in the memory banks.
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Well in the desire for a coherent universe, we have to assume people aren't too stupid to breathe and thus they outfit their diplomatic vessel as a diplomatic vessel.

Dude, why is this so complicated? I am sure the Geth did look in the memory banks, they just don't fucking care. They shoot everything that crosses the Veil as a part of their isolationist agenda, which to organics speaks of hostile intent.
 
Huh. I just had a thought...

What if Esbilon is balancing ME for us by tossing out much of the story lore from ME2&3, to leave the enemies more mysterious and powerful? (Though not the tech, or fleet numbers.)
 
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