Shepard Quest Mk IV, Under New Management (ME/MCU)

UberJJK · Jul 20, 2014

So I was doing some fiddling with a local copy of the finance dock, and just so happened to catch a bug I'll fix when I get home on Wednesday, and damn! I'm looking forward to Quarter 2 of next year.

That's when the Factory III comes online.

600m from HK for our Legionary + 1,750m from CHA for the Gladius (using my most recent calcs) + 7,504m from Lindsey selling our spare 29.4k of production.

Combined with our other income brings in a grand total of:

Ten Billion, Ninety Two Million, One Hundred and Fifty Thousand Credits!!!

Or for those of you who prefer it in number form: 10,092,150,000

Of course that's our gross income, Revy's net income after tax is only a bit over eight billion.

However speaking of economics I think it's time to increase the price of our Arc Reactors a bit. Right now we actually lose* 1.5k on each reactor we sell.

*Just to be clear we're not actually loosing money here but if we were to give that production to Lindsey we're get 76,500 profit compared to the Arc Reactor's 75,000 so economically speaking it's actually a disadvantage to sell Arc Reactors.

Given the insane amount of cash we'll have to spend I think everyone can agree that building a Shipyard in 2173-Q2 is a wise investment? It might not be as cost effective as the same value of factories but it opens up new areas of production and will form the heart for the Shepard Super Spectacularly Special Space Station! Totally not serious name suggestion here.

Cost per Production:

Factory I

40,000,000/300 = 133,333 credits per unit production

ROI = 47 days

Factory II

200,000,000/3,000 = 66,666 credits per unit production

ROI = 24 days

Factory III

1,000,000,000/30,000 = 33,333 credits per unit production

ROI = 12 days

Shipyard

5,000,000,000/100,000 = 50,000 credits per unit production

ROI = 18 days

Esbilon said:
@GM Questions

1)What is the maximum range of a Repulsor as a weapon? In and out of an atmosphere if it's effected by that.

2)Is it effected by the amount of available energy?

3)If the answer to 2 is yes then what sort of range would one have connected to a 150GW ISAR reactor?

4)What sort of capacitors are there available on the market?

5)Can Revy build super-capacitors?

6)How are repulsors effects by been fired down into an atmosphere compared to firing up out of one? (IE kill-sat vs. ground based anti-starship).

7)What is the average and maximum RoF for a repulsor? Does it vary with size?

8)How damaging are Micro-Missiles?

9)What is the maximum range for a Micro-Missile?

10)What is the Alliance's policy on privately own anti-ship satellites over Alliance planets. Say Mindor for instance.

11)Are QEC something Revy would be able to develop on her own or would she need an appropriate tech hero?

12)Why does, as far as I can tell, the Improved Warhead never actually show up as an option in any of the updates? Can we get a description of that like we do the other research options?

13)Can we get some price & production figures for our new tech? Right now we need details for:

Wrist Mounted Submachineguns
Micro-Missiles
Repulsors
Advanced Materials (just give the figures for a 1m by 1m plate with standard thickness)
Various Vehicles we can produce with Basic Ground Vehicles (just just the Improved Mako if that's too much work)
Basic Neural Interfaces

This is why me been stuck in a hotel with nothing but my laptop and the crappy hotel internet to entertain myself with is a bad thing. Or a good thing depending on your PoV.

But yeah orbital weapons platforms. Take an Arc Reactor, add a long range repulsor cannon (pure repulsor mode not repulsor accelerating projectile), strap some maneuvering repulsors to counteract the recoil of the primary weapon and act as backups, then cover the whole thing in a ton of armor.

Bam! Instant defense satellite with an effectively unlimited lifespan. Depending on the heat generation at full power and the thermal radiation rate of the armor we might need to attach some armored, because Revy can totally make something like thermally transparent armor, radiator fins to keep it thermally neutral but we've got a quick reliable defense system for the inevitable future attacks on our planets.

NHO · Jul 20, 2014

Meanwhile, I suggest that we also provide plans for upgraded Legionnaire v1+ to our licensees and also plans for cheap refit package for same standard. Repulsors, better armor in critical places, this kind of things.

Stroth · Jul 20, 2014

Kelenas said:
IIRC the timespan for the hadron collider reactor was "a few years" or something like that.

Needs to be in their hands by Q1 2174. We've got a year. But yeah, in can wait for the mega-factory.

Hoyr · Jul 20, 2014

UberJJK said:
So I was doing some fiddling with a local copy of the finance dock, and just so happened to catch a bug I'll fix when I get home on Wednesday, and damn! I'm looking forward to Quarter 2 of next year.

Whats the bug? Is it a major one? I might be able to fix it.

UberJJK said:
However speaking of economics I think it's time to increase the price of our Arc Reactors a bit. Right now we actually lose* 1.5k on each reactor we sell.

*Just to be clear we're not actually loosing money here but if we were to give that production to Lindsey we're get 76,500 profit compared to the Arc Reactor's 75,000 so economically speaking it's actually a disadvantage to sell Arc Reactors.

This has sadly always been true Arc-Reactors were our lowest profit item other then flamers, omni-tools, and grenade launchers, which we didn't even really research and just copied stock items for. The best option is Pilum Reloads at 750,000 per production point. But ammo w/o launcher == no good yes? So if we sold stand-alone launchers+reloads we'd get ~471,000 per production.

While the money is nice were are to some degree more interested in setting of the revolution (and arms race) that industrial deployment of arc-reactors will bring. Remember that our long term goals involve killing lots of space robot cuttlefish, and if you think that we can d that solo even with our awesome tech, then either your have a damn amazing plan (and I want to see it) or you're on drugs.

Madfish · Jul 20, 2014

Unless it's going to be a problem with building the HCR it might be worth taking Factory I and/or II offline and upgrading them to F III's given the maintenance per unit production.

We also need some information on the System Mindoir is in, for example are there other mineable bodies in system we can use for resources?

The other think is given the truly vast money we're bringing in to the colony and the fact we prevented much of the destruction that would have occurred we should be looking at another raid coming, we've proven a hard target but such a rich one will tempt the desperate and stupid.

While on the subject of money wasn't there a mention of an election coming up? Has either candidate offered us a bribe like business tax cuts for our support as one of the biggest employers and probably the richest person on world?

UberJJK · Jul 20, 2014

Hoyr said:
Whats the bug? Is it a major one? I might be able to fix it.

Not really. I'm just referencing the wrong line in the production sheet. It still comes out to be the same as the correct version until you update it with the new CHA deal so it's no real problem.

While the money is nice were are to some degree more interested in setting of the revolution (and arms race) that industrial deployment of arc-reactors will bring. Remember that our long term goals involve killing lots of space robot cuttlefish, and if you think that we can d that solo even with our awesome tech, then either your have a damn amazing plan (and I want to see it) or you're on drugs.

Oh no I'm all interested in an Arms Race. Especially one that we'll win. I mean theoretically we could do it solo by surrounding every planet that's important to us with thousands of kill sats with Go Away Beams and top of the line Arc Reactors but that sounds more difficult.

Hoyr · Jul 20, 2014

UberJJK said:
Not really. I'm just referencing the wrong line in the production sheet. It still comes out to be the same as the correct version until you update it with the new CHA deal so it's no real problem.

Oh okay sounds minor.

UberJJK said:
Oh no I'm all interested in an Arms Race. Especially one that we'll win. I mean theoretically we could do it solo by surrounding every planet that's important to us with thousands of kill sats with Go Away Beams and top of the line Arc Reactors but that sounds more difficult.

Eh my planets that are important list includes most every major inhabited planet with a pop in the high millions/billions. Given that the Turians had 12 major (as in strong enough to try rebelling) colonies before joining the council about a thousand (I think that's right) years ago I'd guess that we'd be talking about a rather large numbers of planets. Like 100+. The citadel species (and the Terminus maybe?) have explored what 1-2% of the galaxy? Which means they've checked out about 1-8 billion stars. 1-8 fucking billion. That's a lot of stars. Consider then that the relays are placed near useful ones (like ones that have planets) and they must have quite a few wolds. The total galactic size is huge!

Stroth · Jul 20, 2014

Madfish said:
we should be looking at another raid coming, we've proven a hard target but such a rich one will tempt the desperate and stupid.

The Alliance will almost certainly have considered that. Paragon Industries is important enough to the military and in a dangerous enough area that I'd very surprised if there wasn't always at least one Alliance patrol in shouting range of Mindoir. A raiding group would be hard pressed to break atmosphere before they had a cruiser crawling up their ass.

UberJJK · Jul 20, 2014

Madfish said:
Unless it's going to be a problem with building the HCR it might be worth taking Factory I and/or II offline and upgrading them to F III's given the maintenance per unit production.

Assuming the GM will allow it that's probably a good idea. Factory I is like 6.6k per production, II 3.3k and III 1.6k.

We also need some information on the System Mindoir is in, for example are there other mineable bodies in system we can use for resources?

Yeah we know basically nothing about the system Mindoir is in. But I figure once we've got the Shipyard up and running it won't be too hard to add on a asteroid processing plant. Probably want something large enough to just take most small asteroids.

IRL there are ~21 million asteroids between 100m and 300m in diameter in our solar system so using that as a basis I figure something like a 150m in radius that we slide an asteroid into and it closes around it. At which point the Asteroid is rendered down into smaller chunks to be processed into raw materials.

While there would probably be a significant outlay of capital to build it the system would be extremely cheap since the only costs I can think of would be maintenance (and only the human cost since materials will basically be free) and and legal requirements and/or fees to claim each asteroid.

While on the subject of money wasn't there a mention of an election coming up? Has either candidate offered us a bribe like business tax cuts for our support as one of the biggest employers and probably the richest person on world?

Ha! It's almost certain that the Alliance has uniform tax laws across all it's planets. Would be waaaaaay too complex and simply impractical otherwise.

About the only chance for tax breaks we'll get will be moving to the citadel, they may have lower tax rates, or some tax haven like Noveria. Even then most governments tax resident companies for all the money they make.

For instance say your an Australian company but have an American branch. Your Aussie business makes 1000 and gets taxed at 30% so that's 300 in tax. Your American branch makes 100 and get's taxed say 15% and hence pays 15 tax. They then get taxed at the Australian rate of 30% on the full 100 for an additional 30 in tax.

However they can claim a foreign tax credit for the tax paid in America so they get 15 back. So the end result is they pay 300+15+30-15 = 330 or the same as if all the income was made within Australia. In fact foreign tax credits are limited so in reality they would likely end up paying more tax since they couldn't claim all the foreign tax back.

In short: Tax Breaks are unlikely unless we get them from the Systems Alliance itself for some reason.

Hoyr said:
Eh my planets that are important list includes most every major inhabited planet with a pop in the high millions/billions. Given that the Turians had 12 major (as in strong enough to try rebelling) colonies before joining the council about a thousand (I think that's right) years ago I'd guess that we'd be talking about a rather large numbers of planets. Like 100+. The citadel species (and the Terminus maybe?) have explored what 1-2% of the galaxy? Which means they've checked out about 1-8 billion stars. 1-8 fucking billion. That's a lot of stars. Consider then that the relays are placed near useful ones (like ones that have planets) and they must have quite a few wolds. The total galactic size is huge!

I meant planets important (personally) to Revy. But anyway as I said, and you seem to have agreed, it's not really practical anyway.

Alanek · Jul 20, 2014

Speaking of planets, we need to discuss which planet to build our expansion on, so we can start building our next set of Labs. I vote against Earth and Noveria, and I don't have anything beyond that for now.

Do we go somewhere where something bad happened in ME 1-2 in order to prevent it, or to somewhere that nothing happened on? Should we build a corporate stronghold in the Terminus?

Kelenas · Jul 20, 2014

In general, I'd say distribute our fabrication and research capabilities over various colony worlds; Terra Nova, Eden Prime, Elysium, and so on. Should help encourage their growth and also for the Alliance to protect them, to prevent a bunch of Batarian "pirates" getting their hands on the manufacturing machinery for arc reactors, for example.
Think it would be fun if we were on Elysium for the opening of a new factory/lab when the Skyllian Blitz hits it, just in time for us to show off our shiny new armor...

On Earth we could probably build a few power plants with Arc Reactors, though, but no factories or labs.

Stroth · Jul 20, 2014

Kelenas said:
Think it would be fun if we were on Elysium for the opening of a new factory/lab when the Skyllian Blitz hits it, just in time for us to show off our shiny new armor...

Need to be careful or we'll start getting a reputation.

Madfish · Jul 20, 2014

UberJJK said:
For instance say your an Australian company but have an American branch. Your Aussie business makes 1000 and gets taxed at 30% so that's 300 in tax. Your American branch makes 100 and get's taxed say 15% and hence pays 15 tax. They then get taxed at the Australian rate of 30% on the full 100 for an additional 30 in tax.

However they can claim a foreign tax credit for the tax paid in America so they get 15 back. So the end result is they pay 300+15+30-15 = 330 or the same as if all the income was made within Australia. In fact foreign tax credits are limited so in reality they would likely end up paying more tax since they couldn't claim all the foreign tax back.

Unless they're called Vodaphone but I get your point. : )

To be honest the tax rate doesn't bother me as having Minoir being a truly rich system will help attract the talent we want as well as being able to reclaim a chunk of it potentially by upgrading the Guardian network (and therefore power payments) or by setting up the PMC that other's have talked about and get paid for Colony and later system defence.

I wonder how many other colonies in the verge can lay claim to planetary income like we generate? If we play our cards right, such as building discharge stations and orbital transshipping facilities we could become the SA's Illium, especially since it's close to to Illium itself.

Similarly if there's another planetary body in system we could 'colonise' it even if it required domes and set up like Noveria or Illium as a corp world.

Does anyone have any thoughts on my suggestion on topping up Liara's budget so she can do a better job on both site without having to juggle?

On a crass level it will improve her opinion of us but more importantly it says we're a generous philanthropist even when we'd benefit more from being ruthless. It's a useful reputation to have, especially for someone in the arms industry that might otherwise be seen as a warmonger or making blood money by some sectors of the populace.
Also you never know there's the slimmest of chances that Liara might find something of interest, Promethian artifacts treated as religious icons or the like or even something in their society like residues of medicines that might have benefits. Either way we can set up a museum or something with some of the finds, one we can latter expand as we declassify our tech or fund other expeditions.
Similarly has any though been given to building her a lab in case she finds something so she can do research in house for us on the finds rather than in some Asari university where we'll be blocked from the most interesting bits by politics?

Stroth said:
Need to be careful or we'll start getting a reputation.

How else will we get put forward for Spector? [g]

Transreal Cloud · Jul 20, 2014

Madfish said:
In time it's an option, much like researching the CASIE implant for him.

I think it was on the 'To Do' list when Factory III comes up.

On production though, this month if there's going to be a Arc Reactor short fall before FIII come online we should be building up a surplus of reactors for delivery (assuming any capacity is free this month).

You're crazy if you want to give Conrad a CASIE. It has so much potential to backfire.

Alanek · Jul 20, 2014

Giving in;
[x] UberJJK

Alanek · Jul 20, 2014

Kelenas said:
In general, I'd say distribute our fabrication and research capabilities over various colony worlds; Terra Nova, Eden Prime, Elysium, and so on. Should help encourage their growth and also for the Alliance to protect them, to prevent a bunch of Batarian "pirates" getting their hands on the manufacturing machinery for arc reactors, for example.
Think it would be fun if we were on Elysium for the opening of a new factory/lab when the Skyllian Blitz hits it, just in time for us to show off our shiny new armor...

On Earth we could probably build a few power plants with Arc Reactors, though, but no factories or labs.

The problem is, Currently the only way we can expand our production is to have a complete Factory III and Lab III on the most recent planet.

I vote we settle on Elysium for our second planet.

-Skylian Blitz, on a dropship approaching the planet-
10 Batarians huddle near the exit ramp
"Alright guys, I know we barely survived the raid on mindoir because of that crazy girl, but this is a different planet, far far away from there."'
*Thunk*
"Gah!"
*Thunk* *Thunk*
"... What was tha-"
*Thunk* A Metal and ceramic clad fist punches through the side, and pulls one of the Batarians out, screaming, which rapidly cuts off.
"Shitshitshit, YOU SAID SHE WAS ON MINDOIR!"

Another hand sticks back into the hole.

"Welcome To Elysium! From Mindoir, have some complimentary FIRE!"

And much screaming occurred.

Hoyr · Jul 20, 2014

Tabron89 said:
You might have slightly wrong, the Citadel Races don't go around activating random Mass Relays. They try to track down the 'other relay' (Mass Relays are usually paired) before switching it on so that way they avoid allowing another race similar to the Rachni appear.

This reason is also the reason why the First Contact War started in first place. The Turians have a 'shoot first, ask questions later' when coming across a fleet activating a 'strange' Mass Relay.

So, yeah. Most of those systems are probably ones that are actually 'off' the Mass Relay grid. The Citadel races, Terminus and SA as a whole have only explored 1% of the galaxy, as in actually going there and having a look around.

I was just pointing out that all the systems near mass relays would be very likely to interesting ones. One you got to by slow boating or by hitting discharge points so you could go over 15 ly away from a relay would be less guaranteed to be interesting.

Its still 1% of the galaxy that they've actually gone and visited. That's 1-4 billion stars. Considering our current rate of finding planets around stars quite a few have planets of some sort, how may of those can be colonized? I don't know, but given that ME includes space opera rules I'd say alot of them, even if quite a few of those system are too far for the relays to be major systems. Which is the core point I was getting at. Also note that the relay restriction was added after 580 years of just popping them open.

Even if ~17% had earth sized planets (what google tell me is the current guess at that percentage) and only .1% of those could be colonized enmass that still leaves around 170,000 planets. And that's ignoring a selection bias added due to mass relays.

Big galaxy is big.

Silversun17 · Jul 20, 2014

Van Ropen said:
I don't think there were survivors from Mindoir? We crippled their ship. And then shot up most of the ones on the planet.

they all died or were captured.

Kelenas · Jul 20, 2014

Van Ropen said:
I don't think there were survivors from Mindoir? We crippled their ship. And then shot up most of the ones on the planet.

The Alliance might've taken captives from the other shuttles or the ship in orbit, but given how they were, y'know, *slavers*, chances are good that they're either in some dark, dank cell someone lost the keys to, or simply had them executed - after their thorough interrogation, of course.

Stroth · Jul 20, 2014

Bolo said:
Shouldn't we get a degree in something? It would help us right?

Give it a few years and we'll have honorary degrees in everything. Could probably get one now for a large donation and a commencement speech at somewhere like MIT.

Kelenas · Jul 20, 2014

Tried to make a list of human colony-worlds we could invest into, or which are otherwise important:

- Akuze:
Will begin colonization in ~'76-'77. By that time, we could easily be a major backer of its colonization effort, and include a security team with Legionary (or better) suits that would probably make short work of the attacking Thresher Maws, assuming they appear in the first place.

- Anhur:
Human colony with a large batarian population that sees a civil war over the abolition of slavery in '76-'78. Shouldn't be too hard to provide some support to the abolitionists and then help the colony rebuild.

- Beckenstein:
Close to the Citadel, would make a good location to produce Arc Reactors and other goods for distribution into Citadel Space, though our profit-margin would probably be lower.

- Benning:
Close to Arcturus Station, provides both food for the station and starship maintenance. Shouldn't be too hard to set up a shipyard of our own there.

- Demeter:
The first human extrasolar colony, reachable from Sol via conventional FTL - no Relays. Thus, fairly secure from raids and the like.

- Eden Prime:
Very iffy. On one hand, investments here could help ensure that the Prothean Beacon and possibly even Jarvik are found early, and the Reaper-threat made known. On the other hand, it could also easily kick Canon-events off early, before we've had enough time to really develop more techs and distribute them. I think I'd rather stay away from this, for now.

- Elysium:
Pretty much one of humanity's poster-colonies, investments would probably always be welcome, and we could get some *major* publicity and goodwill here if we time it so we can help fend off the Skyllian Blitz.
Additionally, Grissom Academy is located in the system, meaning we'd have a very convenient location from where to go headhunting for some of humanity's best and brightest undergoing their education there.

- Fehl Prime:
Top producer of pharmaceuticals for the SA; we could probably join in and set up some labs for medical, genetic and/or cybernetic research here. In canon, it's one of the colonies that gets attacked by the Collectors in '85.

- Horizon:
Might be interesting in that it could become a foothold for us into the Terminus Systems, though the anti-Alliance leanings might also make things a bit difficult. Also heavy canon-impact, in that it gets attacked by the Collectors in '85, then serves as a Cerberus research facility and recruitment/processing center in '86, both which should (hopefully) be more difficult with our presence.

- Mindoir:
Shouldn't really require much explanation; we "only" have a single lab and factory complex here. Adding a shipyard, and possibly additional factories in its other two cities, should be very easy and a popular move. Workers and security guards hired from here should also be particularly loyal.

- Terra Nova:
Platinum deposits are discovered here in the ~'70s, massively increasing the pace of development, from which we can profit, as it's likely to bring large amounts of people who initially start out as prospectors or miners and the like, but then fall back on different jobs, possibly providing us with a sizable pool of workers for our factories. Alternatively, our investments here might trigger the early discovery of the deposits, and the accompanying growth. Additionally, with our Repulsors it shouldn't be too hard to see about kicking off the project to transfer X57 into Terra Nova orbit as an artifical satellite, due to being much cheaper than with fusion torches, possibly avoiding the whole "Bring Down the Sky" event, and allowing us to set up a shipyard cheaper than usual.

- Watson:
Is also located in the Terminus Systems, and thus could provide an alternative foothold in the region if our attempts on Horizon fail, or we otherwise decide against going there. It's being colonized by three Earth-powers at once - the Chinese, the North Americans, and the Europeans - which probably translates into a fairly sizable population growth, and lots of economic opportunities.

In my opinion, we should continue to invest in Mindoir, naturally, but for our first expansion onto new planets, I think Terra Nova would be a very good choice.

Stroth · Jul 20, 2014

Kelenas said:
- Beckenstein:
Close to the Citadel, would make a good location to produce Arc Reactors and other goods for distribution into Citadel Space, though our profit-margin would probably be lower.

Pros: Old established colony (old and established for a human colony anyway), large industrial base that's mostly focused on luxury goods exported to Citadel space, short flight from the Citadel.

Cons: Legal and social structure that make Illium go "These people have the right idea!"

Good choice for a corporate branch office if we don't want to be directly on the Citadel for some reason, but I don't think we should be manufacturing there.

Alanek · Jul 20, 2014

Eh, Terra nova is only of note because of platinum deposits, which will decrease in value as we make Asteroid mining profitable. Plus it doesn't sound that nice to live on.

I want to go Elysium first, as It'll give us time to build up the defenses on it, and we should be able to then expand on/invest in Akuze as the colony is started up - Letting us deal with the thresher maws.

We can, so long as prices remain stable and there are no hidden costs, expand to a new planet every 1.5 years, letting us have a presence (and defenses) on 7 planets past Mindoir by the end of 2183. (with us being ready to start a new planet at the end of 2183, as we'll have full rank III facilities on each one by then.)

Given the ludicrous amount of research we could have by then, I'm assuming that our new labs will start to have penalties after we build 1-2 more.

Madfish · Jul 20, 2014

Kelenas said:
In my opinion, we should continue to invest in Mindoir, naturally, but for our first expansion onto new planets, I think Terra Nova would be a very good choice.

I think we should look into the legalities of some other options first. In particularly orbital facilities, 'colonised' planetoids and where planetary judicial limits are. For example if we largely automate our factories it might be more profitable to place them in an asteroid or planetoid we're mining out.

Given the effects of gravity on chemical processes we might want to look at setting up an Orbital lab for materials research. Or once we have a ship yard either attaching it to that or building one with engines so they can do research on the effects of stellar phenomena and radiation on chemical processes.

Either way when it comes to building orbital facilities we might do well to look for a Quarien with an engineering background on pilgrimage. They're likely to know a heck of a lot more than anyone else about robust and maintainable ship component designs which would be a boon.

Silversun17 · Jul 20, 2014

I've been on a Tenchi Muyo kick recently and thought that this song fits this quest

Van Ropen said:
I think there was discussion earlier in the thread on how exactly we could convert an asteroid cost-effectively, since the major limiting factor to doing so was power, which isn't a concern for us given an ISAR.

the Arc reactors will let us build a homeworld PDA.

Shepard Quest Mk IV, Under New Management (ME/MCU)

Dumb is a state of existence