"No promises to keep" - Final Fantasy VII Rebirth

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EarthScorpion said:
I tried playing it when it came out on Steam. I didn't get as far as the infamous Aerith stabbing, because I stopped playing because of what I like to call "Fucking Vietnam" design. Namely, crossing rooms was an exercise in tedium, where I'd walk ten paces, get jumped by a random encounter, and have to kill it before walking another ten pages, being ambushed by stationary turrets, and have to kill them and then maybe if I was lucky, I could get to the other side of the screen without another ambush by the Vietcong random encounters.
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While I very much prefer "on the map" enemy encounters, I think that Lost Odyssey did the classic styled random encounters right. You had a bunch early in an area which quickly got you up to the area's level (as people love leveling up) and then they mostly disappeared.

Bravely Default let you choose how often Charlie jumped you as well which worked out nicely as well
 
Mutton said:
Bravely Default let you choose how often Charlie jumped you as well which worked out nicely as well
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Bravely Default had random encounters down to a science. Like just everything about how encounters worked in Bravely is bona fide genius.

FFXIII-2's curious mix of random encounter + on map encounter was interesting, as well. Really kept you on your toes. That said, the genre as whole transitioned past random encounters back in the PS2 era, and even having grown up on random encounters I find it difficult to go back to them. Remember how in Xenogears there were dungeons with jumping puzzles, but random encounters would screw with your controls, so you could very easily negate your own progress through a dungeon? Great times.
 
Ford Prefect said:
Bravely Default had random encounters down to a science. Like just everything about how encounters worked in Bravely is bona fide genius.

FFXIII-2's curious mix of random encounter + on map encounter was interesting, as well. Really kept you on your toes. That said, the genre as whole transitioned past random encounters back in the PS2 era, and even having grown up on random encounters I find it difficult to go back to them. Remember how in Xenogears there were dungeons with jumping puzzles, but random encounters would screw with your controls, so you could very easily negate your own progress through a dungeon? Great times.
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On map enemies is how it should be done IMO. Xenosaga was the first game to really do it right by making the field map as much of a game as the battles themselves.

But yes, BD was 90% incredible experience, 10% dumbest shit imaginable. The encounter rate was in the former; I'd always go through a dungeon once with it at normal then turn it off to just explore or otherwise run around
 
Tsjoat said:
Hell, people knew Fallout 4 was coming out for a year now (yes, I know it was also announced six months ago and released just now, but the only reason that is is because they tried to keep it secret. We knew it was coming out since a year ago when rumors kicked up.)
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I didn't know. I missed the rumours :D
 
Mutton said:
On map enemies is how it should be done IMO. Xenosaga was the first game to really do it right by making the field map as much of a game as the battles themselves.

But yes, BD was 90% incredible experience, 10% dumbest shit imaginable. The encounter rate was in the former; I'd always go through a dungeon once with it at normal then turn it off to just explore or otherwise run around
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Funny thing is, Bravely Default was expected to just be a little something to keep the developers happy, letting them do a little mobile project on the side that felt like an old-school FF. It started out with real-time "Action" RPG combat... but after a bit of testing they found that everyone found turn based combat was more fun. The higher-ups weren't totally happy about that, as they only want action RPGs, but it was a small project that wasn't costing a lot of money, so they let it go as-is.

...and to their surprise, Bravely Default was a massive success. So they surveyed the customers to check why, and the answer was very consistent: They really liked the turn-based combat.

Fast forward a few years, and SE are spending huge amounts of effort converting FFVII's excellent turn-based combat in to real-time combat rather than just learning from BD how to improve the turn-based combat.
 
Bravely Default was a handheld release. Its system would be completely ludicrous attached to an HD high poly AAA release in 2015. Lost Odyssey didn't even really get away with it, and Lost Odyssey is getting close to ten years old.
 
Ford Prefect said:
Bravely Default was a handheld release. Its system would be completely ludicrous attached to an HD high poly AAA release in 2015. Lost Odyssey didn't even really get away with it, and Lost Odyssey is getting close to ten years old.
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By this logic, XCOM should have been terrible (a turn based, action points system from the 1980s!) and The Bureau (Third person, real time action) should be the greatest thing since sliced bread. There's this funny idea that real time = better, which in my opinion isn't correct, any more than the delusion that 15 years ago 3D = better. Some game types work well or better with a turn-based approach, and I personally feel from experience with FFXIII and Type-0 that Final Fantasy is one of them. There's evidence to support that as well, the X-HD remaster, despite being a much older game given a paint job, sold better on all platforms than the newer real-time Type-0.

I'm not someone who demands 110% authentic recreations (my nostalgia just isn't that strong), but ditching what I regard as the actual game underlying FF7 in order to "Bring it up to date" is rather missing the point in my opinion.

EDIT: In other news, Apparently some digging in the Steam database has recently revealed that X-HD and VI are both on the way to the PC in the near future, which is rather pleasant news. I think that leaves the PC missing only... IX and XII?
 
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Owen said:
By this logic, XCOM should have been terrible (a turn based, action points system from the 1980s!) and The Bureau (Third person, real time action) should be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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I don't think you understand my point. Not only do I have a ludicrous number of hours in Bravely Default, I actually bought a copy of Lost Odyssey (on launch day). I don't have an issue with the system itself, but there's a time and place for it, and not every aesthetic suits. Like the new XCOM looked like a cartoon, you know? It wasn't a hyper-detailed Squeenix five million polys per eyelash graphicspalooza.
 
Ford Prefect said:
I don't think you understand my point. Not only do I have a ludicrous number of hours in Bravely Default, I actually bought a copy of Lost Odyssey (on launch day). I don't have an issue with the system itself, but there's a time and place for it, and not every aesthetic suits. Like the new XCOM looked like a cartoon, you know? It wasn't a hyper-detailed Squeenix five million polys per eyelash graphicspalooza.
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But why is it out of place? At the time FFVIII was regarded as an astonishingly pretty, high poly game, and no-one went "Hey, our game is really pretty, let's ditch the turn based stuff". Same for X.

Given that the old turn-based FF games seem to be more popular than the new real time ones, it suggests the time and the place for it is in a Final Fantasy game. :) Heck, I could argue that turn based is actually better for showing off those detailed character models and animations, because I can look at them without constantly dodging attacks and the massive obscuring particle effects of whatever attack I'm launching.
 
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Owen said:
Fast forward a few years, and SE are spending huge amounts of effort converting FFVII's excellent turn-based combat in to real-time combat rather than just learning from BD how to improve the turn-based combat.
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Which makes me wonder if SE has found a way to turn what should be a licence to print money into a money pit.
 
They've spent several tie-in movies and games presenting a more 'action-y' look at the FFVII 'universe' about as long as it's been since the original game itself. Hell, the models in that trailer almost look like they literally ripped them from Advent Children and modded them a bit. Plus IIRC Kindom Hearts was pretty popular and the gameplay in that trailer looks like KH to a T, and KH is Cloud's most recent showing to boot.

Also FFXV is ARPG-y so the switch was probably so they could recycle the engine and shit. Bonding the money-pit to the money-printer to try and equalize the two.

EDIT: WAIT NEVERMIND CLOUD WAS IN SMASH I BET THE REMAKE IS A SMASH CLONE
 
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ZerbanDaGreat said:
Also FFXV is ARPG-y so the switch was probably so they could recycle the engine and shit. Bonding the money-pit to the money-printer to try and equalize the two.
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I could see that. But on the other hand, I personally have little interested in an ARPG Final Fantasy game. This is disappointing to me because I'd been holding out for a version of FFVII without the very awkward early PS1 3D graphics.
 
I'm interested to know what they mean by 'bigger', because the original was by no means a small game, but it was also largely largely due to a large amount of padding and grinding. If the 'bigger' sense means they're giving it more, actual meaningful content and story, then that would definitley pique my interest.
 
The_Reptile_ said:
I'm interested to know what they mean by 'bigger', because the original was by no means a small game, but it was also largely largely due to a large amount of padding and grinding. If the 'bigger' sense means they're giving it more, actual meaningful content and story, then that would definitley pique my interest.
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What?

You didn't have to grind in FFVII AT ALL. It was deliberately balanced around a fairly steady rate of random encounters which would get you up to an acceptable level to beat bosses. Unless you just ran away all the time like a coward.

It was also a GIGANTIC game. Even if you removed the battle system entirely there's still so much to do it'd still end up longer than most games.
 
Episodic? Seriously? Come save me 4.99 USD Steam sales.

Already ditching Luminous Studio also?
 
Owen said:
But why is it out of place? At the time FFVIII was regarded as an astonishingly pretty, high poly game, and no-one went "Hey, our game is really pretty, let's ditch the turn based stuff". Same for X.
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Yes, and at the time it was the 90s. Our understanding of video games at the time was pretty whack.

Like at the end of the day a turn based game looks goofy. Everyone politely waits their turn to act. That was fine fifteen or twenty years ago, and it's fine in a game stylised game where the character models have heads a quarter the size of their bodies, but it will look extremely bizarre attached to a game with similar fidelity to FFXV.
 
Faith dropping to zero with the latest batch of news. The Mrs. is still going to buy it, regardless.
And I already have to put up with her saying "Aerith".
 
Tsjoat said:
Well, I just they don't change the story.

If they add some content, that would be awesome, but just don't change the storyline.
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Given how the whole reason Cloud was mopey in the original Cut of Advent Children prior to the complete edition retconning it to be a side effect of Geostigma was due to fan perception of him......yeah be very afraid
 
Ford Prefect said:
Yes, and at the time it was the 90s. Our understanding of video games at the time was pretty whack.

Like at the end of the day a turn based game looks goofy. Everyone politely waits their turn to act. That was fine fifteen or twenty years ago, and it's fine in a game stylised game where the character models have heads a quarter the size of their bodies, but it will look extremely bizarre attached to a game with similar fidelity to FFXV.
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Yes, all those goofy looking things from the 90's really must go, no matter how much they're part of the game. So of course they're going to get rid of that ridiculous foot wide sword of Cloud's and the preposterous infinite ammo gatling gun on Barret's arm, right? I mean RPGs just don't have such things any more because they look so silly. :)

Seriously, where is the line between "goofy" and "not goofy"? Taking turns is silly and unacceptable, but Cloud sliding 20 feet across the floor with no means of propulsion, characters spontaneously enveloping themselves in flames, enemies staying on their feet after being hit by oversize weapons and Cloud running through massed automatic gunfire without slowing down is somehow less "bizarre"?

It's a game. I'm used to breaks from reality. I'd much rather have a bit less realism and a more fun game than the visually superior but unsatisfying mess I found Type-0's real time combat to be.
 
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Ford Prefect said:
Yes, and at the time it was the 90s. Our understanding of video games at the time was pretty whack.

Like at the end of the day a turn based game looks goofy. Everyone politely waits their turn to act. That was fine fifteen or twenty years ago, and it's fine in a game stylised game where the character models have heads a quarter the size of their bodies, but it will look extremely bizarre attached to a game with similar fidelity to FFXV.
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I don't CARE that it looks goofy, it's an amazingly fun way to play RPG's. I go back and play FFX all the time even though I fucking hate every character but Auron and think the whole story is stupid as fuck, just because the battle system is so viscerally satisfying to play.
 
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