It might be, yes.
It starts out at 6 dice, which is about half a Shape Sorcery action (~3 SMs, where a dedicated combat sorcerer would roll 10+dice and get 5+SMs).
It eventually goes up to 10 dice, though obviously not for mortal sorcerers. Which is about equal to an unaugmented Shape Sorcery action.

Yes, if you make a battle group rout every turn or so that'll be rather strong. But there's other ways to do it.
Let's take some inspiration from White Reaper Style! At least, that way we also get a shaping ritual that works outside of mass combat.

Whenever the character incapacitates or crashes a non-trivial enemy or damages a battle group, she can stunt her next shape sorcery action, describing how she methodically dispatched her enemies. This grants her (stunt rating +2) sorcerous motes towards completing this spell. This benefit can only be received once per scene. However, the character can forfeit the willpower-reward (if any) from such a stunt when casting her control spell to have it not count against the once per scene limit

There, that's 3-5 SMs. For most spells, it's once per scene, and only covers part of their cost (so you still need a shape sorcery action, or a second shaping ritual). It can make control-spells much more spammable, but at the cost of willpower, so it's not too unbalanced I think.
 
It's specifically part of the Coils of the Dragon and part of the process of enlightening into Celestial Martial Arts alongside abstaining from meat and intoxicants.

Though once you've learned the Charms you don't need to do it, so if you're a retired monk go have sex all you want (in fact, have all the sex with fertile people because even Monks have their duty to the Realm).
Well, some fertile people. No one wants Outcastes with completely unknown breeding mucking up their bloodlines, which is one of the main reasons why "the razor or the coin" is a thing.
 
Hrm, I think that the Immaculate Monks being celibate would likely make the Immaculate Order a draw for those who would rather escape their social and familia obligations to reproduce.
 
Last edited:
Okay, then. Scratch that idea.

DBL doesn't let you bypass narrative restrictions. It says "that they qualify for". It does let you bypass training times though.

10m is a lot, it's true. Cheaper than Power-Awarding Prana though. I'm reluctant to reduce the cost, because being able to conjure up a new Charm is pretty powerful.

I'd feel a bit better if the cost reduction required a repurchase. Maybe a Solar who knows Celestial Reforging Technique could repurchase DBL to allow multiple Evocation purchases when using the Charm on an Artifact they built and are using at a cost of 5m/Evocation.

Would that be fair? I'm not sure.
Solar Tony Stark still gets massively overextended, in terms of committed costs, though. He's got three Artifacts to Attune to, plus 15 motes committed to be able to use them effectively.

The issue is that most Evocations aren't particularly effective mote-wise compared to native Charms anyway: DBL could work, since it lets you pull solutions out in noncombat scenarios, but if your main build involves having a large number of Artifacts that you want to use, that's a problem.


Crafters in play are extremely tricky, because they don't fit into every game in the same way that "fighty guy" or "social guy" can. In some games, crafting will allow you to solve a lot of problems and give you interesting narrative powers. In other games it just absolutely won't. The problem is that, unlike Sail or Bureaucracy, it's much harder to predict if crafting will be useful. Plus, if a player really wants an Artifact, most GMs would be willing to give it to them (possibly requiring a quest, but still) for 0 xp. Most GMs, in my experience at least, will not be nearly as willing to do the same for social or fighty problems.

My personal solution would be to make there be a really obvious Iron Man-esque crafter build that gets reasonable power, at the cost of being less mote efficient.
 
As for Autochthonian swears, several thousand years of labor-driven progress has undoubtedly placed the bulk of profanity on those perceived as not pulling their weight, consuming an unreasonable amount of resources compared to what they give back, or otherwise existing as an unwanted parasite on the efforts and goodwill of those around them. "Lazy" and "worthless" carries the same sting as impugning parentage, as it calls to question their life's work and personal skills, one of the few things the common worker can truly be proud of. Talk of resting too often, shirking work onto others and sleeping too long are also implications which can start a fight, but calling someone a Glutton or Wasteful is going to lead to some disciplinary actions on top of missing teeth. Overeating or taking more than one deserves likely gets cast using the ugliest and most disgustingly guttural terms it can find like "chugging" or "guzzling," to help emphasize the immoral and oafish qualities of such people.

"You had a big lunch, go take a nap" carries a simply unreal degree of culturally-specific venom when the intended message to be parsed is "you've been mooching all day and we know it, so leave us alone to do this job correctly without your half-assed assistance."

On that note, bodily functions, especially those which cause/deal with filth, are probably understandably more potent and uncouth in a world of gleaming crystal and hammered metal. Its far too easy to see organic qualities as already fouling the perfect mechanical systems of the Great Maker's body even without bringing unhygienic acts into things, so making a point to crudely reduce things down to talking about mankind's ability to produce an almost endless supply of filth is akin to colloquially farting in church. This goes double when mixed with the gluttonous or parasitic angles to drive the point home, like calling someone "walking vomit" as a one-two punch of unwanted wastefulness and filth, or pointedly confronting a slacking workman to ask if he is feeling hungry, because if so he can eat a big bucket of shit.

In more refined circles, euphemisms about breakdown and failure would likely skirt by public acceptability, like exclamations of "arcs and sparks!" as a tame form of curse, and the multifunctional use of words like bent, cracked and broken as things someone can go off and Do ("get bent"), something a subject can Be ("these reports are all cracked"), and something which can be Done to something else.
 
I dunno, I can think (and have been in a few) of a lot of games where 'social guy' is probably wasted xp also.

In the same way a ST might give away artifacts XP free, they might make everyone the party might want to win to their side, do do with no effort or just be unwilling to talk at all.
 
I dunno, I can think (and have been in a few) of a lot of games where 'social guy' is probably wasted xp also.

In the same way a ST might give away artifacts XP free, they might make everyone the party might want to win to their side, do do with no effort or just be unwilling to talk at all.
Sure, there are a few games where being the combat guy is wasted xp as well. I would argue that such things are (from my experience at least) substantially less likely than crafting being useless. Baring some D&D-esque PC behavior where they kill everything in sight, I've never had an experience where social charms have been flat-out useless.
 
*ahem*
"I am the very model of a modern Sorcerer-General,
I've information spiritual, elemental, and infernal,
I know the queens of The Realm, and I quote the fights historical
From Primordial to Usurpation, in order categorical

I got as far as this before I stopped being able to sing along. "Marathon" and "Waterloo" are both three syllables long. "Primordial" and "Usurpation" are four each.
 
Sure, there are a few games where being the combat guy is wasted xp as well. I would argue that such things are (from my experience at least) substantially less likely than crafting being useless. Baring some D&D-esque PC behavior where they kill everything in sight, I've never had an experience where social charms have been flat-out useless.
Well, it's all a matter of scope. I think in most games the ability to take on and instantly complete small projects will almost always be useful as well.

But yeah, a non-combat game (or where the only combat opponents are very easy) will tend to be much rarer than games where any other element is useless.
 
If a V'neef Wood-aspect mother carries a child to term for nine months

Fifteen.

Exalts carry the children for a full year, which in Creation is fifteen months long.

Actually, why would Immaculate Monks even be celibate?

I believe the original rational was that the Immaculates were supposed to focus on spiritual enlightenment and being a sort of mediator between other Dragonblooded and so weren't supposed to form the sort of dynasties that tend to appear when Dragonblooded are left to their own devices.

Hence why they're celibate. It's much easier to avoid having lots and lots of children if you avoid fucking like bunnies as Dragonblooded are wont to do.
 
Actually, why would Immaculate Monks even be celibate?
Temperance in their sexual behavior, sure.
But given that a good number of them are dragonblooded, and that propagating the bloodline is important, why would the order as a whole have celibate strictures?

Monk lineages seem likely to cut away at the power of the Great Houses.

Okay: now some comments about this rewrite:

About the system:
1) Now Craft seem to be a single ability, with specialities taking the place of the asinine "Hey Guys, lets return to the First edition Craft Bloat! YAYYYYYYYY!!!"

Judgment: Thats a pretty good idea.

2) Basic Projects and Major Projects are still separated, but now you don't need anymore to do Basic Projects to gain "Resources" to do Major projects.

Judgment: Thank god.

...

4) Artifacts now don't determinate the Terminus by themselves, but need external sources to do so.

Judgment: Pretty good idea, i like it.

...

2) There is a charm allowing an even saner version of the omni-craft applicability.

Judgment: Thank god. Also nice charm.

Everything else seem pretty good.

Thanks.

3) Artifacts still don't have a 1-dot artifact equivalent.

Judgment: Meh, it is easily fixable. Besides it is a fixation of mine, not something to necessarily fix

I like that change, actually. If it's minor enough to be one-dot, it probably doesn't deserve to be called an Artifact.

5) All the various craft points are gone.

Judgment: Makes things a bit more confusing about the consumption of resources, but how they were implemented before was awful. So good Riddance. Beside i am very very slowly doing my very own Craft Rewrite, so i can do whatever i want later.

Points as a measure of resources could be interesting. Silver points could be mundane raw materials, gold points could be standard magical materials, white points could be notable wondrous ingredients.

It would be very unlike the current system, but it would provide a similar resource management minigame.

About the Charmset:
1) Dice tricks are still here, but less of them.

Judgment: Meh. I can accept dice tricks in a primarly not combat ability, especially dimished in respect as the canonical clusterfuck. Wait, no. I can still see something that qualifies as clusterfuck, even if still lesser than canon.

Craft kinda needs dice tricks, unfortunately. That or non-Charm dice/successes. Unless you want to throw out the whole extended-roll-based Artifact system.

I kept the dice tricks because I'm neutral on them and negative on cap-breakers. If you have the opposite perspective, you can switch up those Charms without changing the rest of the system. Both in canon and in my rewrite.

About the Specialistic charmset:

1) Here being past 1 AM, i have exausted my abilities of reading and writing things.

Tomorrow will be the end of this.

I look forward to it.

Solar Tony Stark still gets massively overextended, in terms of committed costs, though. He's got three Artifacts to Attune to, plus 15 motes committed to be able to use them effectively.

The issue is that most Evocations aren't particularly effective mote-wise compared to native Charms anyway: DBL could work, since it lets you pull solutions out in noncombat scenarios, but if your main build involves having a large number of Artifacts that you want to use, that's a problem.

I'm gonna admit defeat here, at least for now. All the ways to make Crafters better at using their Artifacts I can think of are bad or involve yet more committed motes. And the issue predates my rewrite so I feel a bit less responsible for it, if that makes sense.

Crafters in play are extremely tricky, because they don't fit into every game in the same way that "fighty guy" or "social guy" can. In some games, crafting will allow you to solve a lot of problems and give you interesting narrative powers. In other games it just absolutely won't. The problem is that, unlike Sail or Bureaucracy, it's much harder to predict if crafting will be useful. Plus, if a player really wants an Artifact, most GMs would be willing to give it to them (possibly requiring a quest, but still) for 0 xp. Most GMs, in my experience at least, will not be nearly as willing to do the same for social or fighty problems.

My personal solution would be to make there be a really obvious Iron Man-esque crafter build that gets reasonable power, at the cost of being less mote efficient.

If you head over to the thread where I originally posted my rewrite, I talked about this problem. I think it stems from the excessive focus on Artifacts. I tried to fix it by adding Charms like The Craft of War and Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique, which are useful in more or less normal adventuring situations.

I worry, a bit, that my attack on the canon system overshadows the best part of what I've made. Because you could port a lot of these Charms into the canonical system without a problem.
 
Last edited:
If you head over to the thread where I originally posted my rewrite, I talked about this problem. I think it stems from the excessive focus on Artifacts. I tried to fix it by adding Charms like The Craft of War and Living Statue Genesis/Clockwork Menagerie Technique, which are useful in more or less normal adventuring situations.

I worry, a bit, that my attack on the canon system overshadows the best part of what I've made. Because you could port a lot of these Charms into the canonical system without a problem.
Those charms are definitely fun and interesting, and do a good job of making craft useful in combat, but focus on, well, actually crafting in combat, as opposed to using tools–which, I supposed, raises a question of if using tools should be it's own distinct thing, some kind of meta-evocation stat. Dunno.
 
I think using the stuff you made extra-effectively is in Craft's bailiwick, but I'm really not sure how to represent it with Charms.

On the bright side, at least Evocations make it so that Solar Iron Man is better with power armour and worse with a throwing shield than Solar Captain America.
 
Question about the Games of Divinity book.

So, at one point it mentions that some major gods Soulforge minor gods into trinkets.

Since I'm like halfway sure the idea of turning gods into Starmetal came from 2e, I'm curious if this refers to Gods using Soulsteel, or just stuff like killing the god and turning his essence into an item of no particular Magical Material.
 
Question about the Games of Divinity book.
So, at one point it mentions that some major gods Soulforge minor gods into trinkets.
Since I'm like halfway sure the idea of turning gods into Starmetal came from 2e, I'm curious if this refers to Gods using Soulsteel, or just stuff like killing the god and turning his essence into an item of no particular Magical Material.
Why?
I'm pretty sure that major gods get quintessence from prayers, which they can turn into any thing/magical material they please.
Some Solar player shenanigans have centered around a circle cutting a deal with a god, proselytizing for that god and pumping its Cult rating in exchange for a cut of the prayers/Quintessence in goods and raw materials.
 
Legacy of First Edition

Exalted 1st edition gets a lot of props and a lot of hate for numerous reasons. I wanted to take the time to call out some interesting things they did with the book.

Ability Descriptions

When Exalted 1e described abilities, it did so with example situations and example difficulties. This is contrasted with how 2nd edition handled it, where a given dot-rating was used to express how good someone was at a given task.

This is all detailed on Page 134 of the 1st edition book- in that it gives you Example feats with implicit Difficulty. Standard (1), Challenging (3) or Legendary (5).

For example, a Legendary feat of Archery is ' shoot an apple off someone's head at 50 paces, with a warped arrow, at night'.

That is much more effective at communicating what a character does with Archery, than saying 'Someone with Archery 5 can shoot a mouse out of the claws of a hawk flying in high wind, without harming the mouse.

Drama and Systems

I'm not going to grab all 25 abilities here, because it's not necessary. These are just the standouts.

Wrestling
In terms of formatting, Exalted 1e has a few brilliant points and more than a few strange ones. My cursory review of the combat section offered me few gems, but then I saw the 'Wrestling' entry, which would later become 2e clinches.

The main difference, is that 'Wrestling' encompassed five separate sub-actions; Clinching, Holding, Throwing, Sweeps and Tackles. Contrast this with how 2e wedged 'sweeps and tackles' next to the Knockdown/Knockback/Stunning rules. The question here isn't which version is mechanically better, but I think the 1e version is much more readable.

Extras
I want to bring this up, because 1e handled 'extras' and antagonist statblocks in the same general section within 2 paragraphs and a handful of bulleted points. It is by no means the most elegant or robust, but it is succinct.

Endurance
Back in 1e, we didn't have 'Resistance' the ability, we had Endurance, which covered physical resilience. It covered the following actions: Withstanding Illness, Staying Awake, Enduring Fatigue, and Treading Water. 2nd edition condensed the last 3 of those into the 'Enduring Hardship' mechanic, not unreasonably!

Performance
Omitted from 2nd edition was the composing action, where one would use Performance to write a work of music as an Extended roll. An artful flourish that was lost in the changeover. Using a composed work adds a dice bonus to actual performance actions; in this we see the legacy code of 'Tool' bonuses.

Presence
Most aspects of the following actions were subsumed into 2nd edition's Social Combat system, for good or ill. Presence gave us mechanical blurbs for Seduction, Persuasion, Intimidtation and Leadership.

It's interesting that most of the social mechanics of the day were handled as extended actions, instead of the transitory 'Against MDV' model we see in 2e.

Intimidation gives us a lot of interesting texture and 'knobs' to arbitrate the nuances of the action.

Leadership, meanwhile, clearly states that most non-physical Attribute + Presence roll can be useful in context of leading people. It's not at all a fully realized set of rules for arbitrating a kingdom, but it is somewhat descriptive.

Survival
Omitted from 2nd edition was a specific action focused on animal-taming- also an Extended roll. Young animals had a lower per-roll difficulty to train, while exotic animals had a longer cumulative success.

Craft
Hooboy. This is not Oadenol's Codex, or even 2e corebook crafting. Craft is focused on creating Unique, Impressive Objects, not necessarily artifacts, but that is involved. It's divided into three stages- Planning, Assessment, and Construction.

Interestingly, the idea here is that you are allowed to plan as long as you want, with a gradually lengthening interval. The rules meander on this point, but the intent is to generate a surplus of 'planning' successes as a means to identify useful materials or adventure hooks for later.

Assessment is essentially taking the 'best of' the planning stage and locking down what you have and want to use to make the best thing possible. It's a kind of 'gut check' to prevent your character from making a great thing out of crap material- but it does allow you to play to a material's strengths, even unorthodox ones.

Construction is the final step, and it requires you to earn [Int + Craft] successes with another extended roll.. The best planning and extra materials can add +3 dice to this roll. I find it interesting that your project's final difficulty actually rises as your skill does.

Now, notably, Craft in 1e tried very hard to get across that you were working on month or year timescales, even more than the [seasons per roll] mechanic Oadenol's stated.

Investigation
1e had four actions set aside for this ability, which in 2e were condensed or otherwise refit elsewhere. Interestingly, the opening blurb of the ability points out that the ST should give players evidence, not conclusions.

The four actions are Searching for Something, Searching for Anything, Concealing a Search, and Reconstructing an Event.

Occult
A great deal of what was described here became part of Thaumaturgy. Sensing Magic, Geomancy, sensing Spirits, and Astrology. It's interesting that you were apparently intended to be able to notice dematerialized beings without specialized magic.

Athletics
Likely as a throwback to DnD, Exalted did infact have Encumbrance rules, and they were more or less dropped in the transition to 2nd edition. Amusingly, these rules are succinct, barely a paragraph, and surprisingly elegant.

Larceny
Picking Locks, Picking Pockets, Blending into the Underworld, Casing a Target and Disguise were all actions that were clearly defined in 1st edition. I want to specifically call attention to Blending- it communicates very quickly that this is a thing that can be done, and helps the storyteller flesh out the world very fast by dint of how it's worded.

Bureaucracy
Ahh, the much maligned, red-headed step child of 2nd edition. Bureaucracy offers us rules on Evaluating Goods, Buying and Selling, Bribery and Bureaucratic Maneuvering.

Take a gander, if you will at these rules,and you will see the legacy code for a smattering of 2nd edition Charms we now take as given. Maneuvering, for example, is the mundane version of Speed the Wheels.

Linguistics
Like Performance, you can 'compose' with Linguistics, using the same basic rules. More interestingly, Linguistics governs translation of lost or hidden languages, codes and cryptography.

Ride
The art of keeping your rear in the saddle; Ride has a handful of lost Actions as well. Evaluating a mount; it's quality. Training Mounts, Riding Under Stress, and Pushing Horses. Most of this was absorbed by Charms or the Travel Chapter in 2nd edition.

Sail
Navigation and Shipboard Movement are both Sail actions as per 1st Edition. The former is a mutli-stage affair of several rolls, while the latter is essentially an athletics/balance hazard. The unsteady footing rules of 2e replaced this handily.

Socialize
Ahh, the last ability of note. In 2nd edition, Socialize is, outside of Charms, rolled Twice: optionally as part of Reading Motivation, and for establishing a social surprise attack. Otherwise it is used as a 'throttle' for Mass Social Combat.

In 1st edition, Socialize gave us rules for Sensing Social Situations, Making Friends and Poisoning the Waters.

More meaningfully, Sensing Social Situations is a specialized 'notice detail' action. Making friends is actually funny, because it's arbitrated as a contextual extended roll- often an asymmetrical one. Exalted 1e had affection points, with friendship governed by a 0-100 point scale via an extended roll. This is actually very nice, because it tells you quite clearly that 10 successes is 'acquaintance', and 80-100 is 'Friend for life and into the next'.

Poisoning the Waters, meanwhile, is the fine art of mudslinging and rumormongering, including frameups! The Solar Charm 'Venomous Whispers Technique' is the magical version of this same basic mechanic.
 
Why?
I'm pretty sure that major gods get quintessence from prayers, which they can turn into any thing/magical material they please.
Some Solar player shenanigans have centered around a circle cutting a deal with a god, proselytizing for that god and pumping its Cult rating in exchange for a cut of the prayers/Quintessence in goods and raw materials.
Not entirely true. All gods get Quintessence from prayers, which they can turn into anything mundane, or made of Jade. The only gods who can use it to do anything with other magical materials are the Incarna, who can make the material aspected to them.
 
Speaking of prayers, who all is capable of praying?

I know humans can, but can demons? Gods? If the uncountable swarms of FCDs can generate prayer, why was humanity created in the first place? Is there some quality to human prayer that makes it more desirable?
 
Humans have an unusual Soul design. Instead of a single soul, they have a Hun and a Po. The hun is responsible for rational thought (think the superego), while the po is responsible for desires and power (think the id). This design makes for good prayer cattle that do not require motes/attention to create, and they can't really grow in power to become anything but prayer cattle (which is where Exaltation comes into play).

Also, I'm pretty sure anyone can grant motes via praying except demons, but the only reason they can't is part of the surrender oaths.

EDIT: Thank you Kiriel.
 
Last edited:
Infernals get free dots in Cult, wouldn't that be indicative of demons worshiping the GSPs? I suppose you could dedicate 6 or so human priests to each GSP. That wouldn't be a whole lot. Only ~250 priests and congregations within the limited amount of human Yozi worshipers.

I was under the understanding that humanity's unique soul structure gave 'better' prayer, and with the points the @Dynamesmouse raised about how humans didn't actually require a whole lot of commitment from the Primordials/Incarnae in terms of motes or miracles, and they were never designed to grow all that powerful.

Prayer must've existed before the creation of humanity. Or was a ridiculously 'happy' discovery, when the humans prayed to the Primordials/Incarnae/gods the first time and something happened in Yu-Shan. Or Yu-shan got retrofitted.

I prefer to go with everything can pray and grant cult bonuses (if sentient/sapient/whatever term that means properly self aware), just humans are prayer cattle, that don't require a lot of maintenance or care. At least they didn't when all the other Primordial races were running around and in charge.
 
Infernals get free dots in Cult, wouldn't that be indicative of demons worshiping the GSPs? I suppose you could dedicate 6 or so human priests to each GSP. That wouldn't be a whole lot. Only ~250 priests and congregations within the limited amount of human Yozi worshipers.
That comes from the Yozi tithing a portion of the prayers of their mortal cults towards the Yozi, and said portion is also split by 50 Exalted, how many Akuma and their sub-souls. That's the Watsion perspective, the Doyalist is that a large portion of the Cecelyne charm tree needs a certain degree of Cult dots to work.
 
Speaking of prayers, who all is capable of praying?

I know humans can, but can demons? Gods? If the uncountable swarms of FCDs can generate prayer, why was humanity created in the first place? Is there some quality to human prayer that makes it more desirable?

Demonic prayer can not empower the Yozis. That is a specific condition of the Surrender Oaths and not an innate condition. Spirits can (and do) provide prayer they're just worth less than humans and generally don't bother.

For example, the ghosts of the Underworld pray to the Dual Monarchy to keep the Calender of Setesh moving.
 
Back
Top