I think the problem here is that people are talking about doing a mixed game akin to The Avengers. Why bother rolling up with Hawkeye when you could be another Vision? In real life you have to deal with cost restrictions and the fact that you're generally not going to have your Pilot carrying your Submarine Captain on his back when he goes on a bombing run.
General Exalted Thread
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
I was mostly thinking of something that might be found in Ysyr or similar.
Yes, a Sorceror that is a general that gets power from his troops or something. Dunno, it was the first thing to came to mind that wasn't 'TURN X thing from FICTION into sorcery'.
Well ok, first thing was 'Make Stormbringer an artifact' but yeah.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
No.. Its not.
Aaron, go back and read the argument.
We are discussing that Iron Man has more XP then Hawkeye and Captain America, and so they really shouldn't be found as PCs together in the same campaign. Otherwise the Archery Supernal and Melee Supernal players will be asking why the Iron Man player got two supernals and two hundred more experience at character creation.
Its not 'HAWKEYE AND IRONMAN SHOULDN'T BE ON THE SAME TEAM BECAUSE REASONS'
Its 'Iron Man shouldn't have XP discounts on his crafting charms, just because his build requires more XP/work'
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- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think I wouldn't make Stormbringer an Artifact. If I wanted to really give it the weight and narrative importance it has in the original story, I would make it an Exigent Exaltation bound into an Artifact. Likely one of the so-called 'dirty bomb' Exaltations that might end up consuming its wielder.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
I admit, that isn't a way that I considered it before.
The evocation system was originally meant to do Stormbringer style artifacts, but having the really nasty/powerful ones be their own form of exaltation is a pretty awesome idea, especially considering the narrative that comes from having said weapons theoretically being usable by everyone.
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
Dude. I meant mote discounts. Please do not strawman me.
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
*ahem*
"I am the very model of a modern Sorcerer-General,
I've information spiritual, elemental, and infernal,
I know the queens of The Realm, and I quote the fights historical
From Primordial to Usurpation, in order categorical
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters essential,
I understand the circles, from the Solar to Terrestrial
About Devonian theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news, (bothered for a rhyme)
With many cheerful facts about the Salinian School.
I'm very good at transcendent geomantic calculus;
I know the Old Realm names of beings summonablous:
In short, in matters spiritual elemental and infernal,
I am the very model of a modern Sorcerer-General.
I know our First Age history, Queen Ktulla's and Sir Onyx;
I annoy Sidereal prophecy, I've a pretty taste for paradox,
I quote in elegiacs all the souls of Sacheverell,
In mundras I discuss peculiarities of Lunar tells;
I can tell undoubted Vitaris from Kalmanka and Pelligrina,
I know the dreadful chorus that proceeds the demon Zsofika!
Then I can recall the tune because I've heard the Malfean din afore, (bothered for a rhyme)
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Erembour.
Then I can write a washing bill in Dragon King cuneiform,
And tell you ev'ry detail of Leviathan's uniform
In short, in matters spiritual, elemental and infernal,
I am the very model of a modern Sorcerer-General.
In fact, when I know what is meant by "angyalka" and "firmin",
When I can tell at sight a essence cannon from a javelin,
With such affairs as logistics and supplies I know the cost,
And when I know precisely where to find Marthesine of the Lost,
When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern firedust,
When I know more of tactics than a some threshold provost –
In short, when I've summoned an elemental host – (bothered for a rhyme)
You'll say a better Sorcerer-General has never been crossed.
For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century;
But still, in matters spiritual, elemental and infernal,
I am the very model of a modern Sorcerer-General."
Jon Chung
=][=
They elicit a negative reaction even now, because they demonstrated clearly to me that implementing crazy bullshit like "I have unlimited resources", "I cannot be defeated in combat by a group of five player characters at the end of a two year game" and "Even if I lose, fuck your planet" as game-mechanical concepts for NPC usage was a terrible idea no matter how cool the writer thinks they are, especially in a game like Exalted where you are supposed to be a powerful geopolitical-scale actor.
Do you gather allies and make pacts such that your Threshold army is able to challenge the might of the Realm? It doesn't matter, Ketchup Carjack takes a minute out of his lunch break to kill your entire military force and destroy all your cities with one kick. gg no re. Do you desperately battle the hungry, hating dead in the Underworld as you claw your way to the First and Forsaken Lion's skull fortress, so that you may assassinate him and save the world from being drowned under legions of undead? He can kill all of you without effort and doesn't even need the undead army to kill the world, why did you even bother?
The sin of SMA is making you, the player, unable to effect any meaningful change upon the setting as long as you are opposed by at least one high-essence actor unless they are buried in a playpen ballpit of idiot balls or your GM wisely decides to take away all their stupid overpowered crap (by banning high-essence charms and high-essence stat inflation), and as sins rank that one is worse than "buy SSE + RST and put them in a combo or die instantly", which merely makes playing the game a terminal bore rather than invalidating its core campaign mode.
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Mote discounts are, if anything, even worse. Mote discounts result in powers which are either pathetic when in the hands of someone who doesn't get the discount, or far too strong in the hands of someone who does. They cause an immediate problem, while XP imbalances are at least a bit more subtle.
That is why the SMA sutras need to die in a fire, among other reasons.
Remember that one of the core conceits of 3ed, as well as 2.5, is that mote generators don't exist, or are heavily regulated. This caused problems in 2.5: what do you do when one of the balancing factors for Malfeas's excellency was that it had a mote generator attached? Flail around ineffectively.
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
That's a pretty neat idea.
Of course, the 3E Sorcery system is very nice for adapting stuff like that.
First, we need three shaping rituals.
One that gives motes when a battle group makes a rout check
Let's make it "roll War+Essence" and get that many motes, doubled for a control spell. Lasts until the end of the scene
One that gives motes when giving a command to a battle group.Let's make this work off the Command-action. Whenever you take one, you get two sorcerous motes. And you get four SM the first time in a scene a battle group rolls join battle. Getting SMs for the command-action allows you charge spells while commanding your troops, since you can't flurry that and a shape sorcery action together.
One that gives motes when winning a strategic warfare roll.Let's call it Essence + extra successes + appliccable Intimacy (say, towards the troops that'll be fighting or a cause that is fought for) motes, lasting for the duration of the story.
Then we make some Merits. At least three seems prudent, but more would be possible.A merit that gives back willpower whenever you engage with troops in the field (but only once per day)
One that allows you to spend willpower to have an allied battle group use your willpower in place of theirs for a rout-checkAnother one that gives prophetic dreams that can be applied to the next strategic warfare roll or command-action
A merit that allows you to give your troops might 1 when fighting enemies who themselves have might 1 or higher.And a merit that allows you to place countermagic in a flurry with a command action.
I haven't priced those yet, but that should cover a nice range from 2-5 dots or thereabouts.
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay, so I feel like an analysis-y post of my own. And I've been looking into this for a while, so you get the benefits of...
Cursing in Creation!
Profanity! We all fucking use it to some degree. So how does it work? Well, swear words tend to come from taboos. In English they mostly fall into one of three categories; sexuality, defecation or blasphemy (with most of the rest being ableist or racist slurs, etc). Two of these remain the same in Creation - you'll get people swearing by the Dragons or the Sun and Moon and Stars - but sexuality is in many places not going to be a taboo. In the Realm, for instance, there's no real gender inequality (and thus no gender-based slurs) and sex is a fact of life.
However! There are brand new taboos to fill the gap! One particularly big one will be death - and specifically the desecration of bodies (which causes hungry ghosts, which are bad). You'll get people threatening to do horrible things to your corpse, or referencing spilt blood and defiled graves as things that attract the Dead. Shadowlands might crop up as well. Raksha are similarly scary, and curses invoking them will straddle the line between "sociopath" and "simple" depending on whether they refer to the fae themselves or their dream-eaten victims.
In Hell and demon lingo, anyone who reads Kerisgame will probably recognise things like "Makers" or "Unspeakable Colour" (used by Dulmea, who is relatively polite and cultured and does not actually name it) and "blue silence" or "hush" (for Keris, who is neither of those things and is also very quick at picking up very bad words). The Incarnae are still referenced here, but as slurs - hated foes that demons associate with treachery and wrongdoing. They may reference another set of stars - the demons that Orabilis hurls up into the Malfean sky for learning things meant only for the Yozis.
A third really big taboo that crosses most of Creation is plague, and this is one that English doesn't really have an equivalent for. Dutch, however, proves surprisingly generous in offering vocabulary to fill the gap. Keris will probably revert back to telling people to catch cholera and die or calling them plague-bearers now that she's settled in Saata and feels all at home in a big (non-demonic) city. While the relative levels of sexism rise and fall depending on the area, ableist and racist slurs are, sadly, going to be common (check with your table before using these). Keris hasn't encountered much racism due to growing up in multicultural Nexus and spending time in the relatively-diverse Shore Lands, but they're exceptions to the rule - and even the Shore Lands has it, just less pointed and hateful than in other places.
Then there are the more region-specific things. "Bastard" is a very serious accusation in the Realm, especially among Dynastic culture - like, seriously, this will get you no-shit challenged to a duel and stabbed if you say it to a Dragonblood. Misbegotten and Those Who Serve The Radiance are an uncomfortable subject for the Tengese, and in some parts of Threshold people say "Realm" to rhyme with "Nazi" (though not where Realm troops can hear, or at least not more than once).
All in all, there's a big wide wonderful world of profanity and cursing to be found in Creation! A bit of thought into local and universal taboos will get you some far more diverse insults that NPCs can throw at your characters and which your characters can throw back. Deeply ingrained linguistic reflexes can give away an infiltrator who curses in a region-specific way, or just give flavour to a new location (and provide some information on their culture to those who think about it). So have fun, and roleplay colourfully! You little shits.
Cursing in Creation!
Profanity! We all fucking use it to some degree. So how does it work? Well, swear words tend to come from taboos. In English they mostly fall into one of three categories; sexuality, defecation or blasphemy (with most of the rest being ableist or racist slurs, etc). Two of these remain the same in Creation - you'll get people swearing by the Dragons or the Sun and Moon and Stars - but sexuality is in many places not going to be a taboo. In the Realm, for instance, there's no real gender inequality (and thus no gender-based slurs) and sex is a fact of life.
However! There are brand new taboos to fill the gap! One particularly big one will be death - and specifically the desecration of bodies (which causes hungry ghosts, which are bad). You'll get people threatening to do horrible things to your corpse, or referencing spilt blood and defiled graves as things that attract the Dead. Shadowlands might crop up as well. Raksha are similarly scary, and curses invoking them will straddle the line between "sociopath" and "simple" depending on whether they refer to the fae themselves or their dream-eaten victims.
In Hell and demon lingo, anyone who reads Kerisgame will probably recognise things like "Makers" or "Unspeakable Colour" (used by Dulmea, who is relatively polite and cultured and does not actually name it) and "blue silence" or "hush" (for Keris, who is neither of those things and is also very quick at picking up very bad words). The Incarnae are still referenced here, but as slurs - hated foes that demons associate with treachery and wrongdoing. They may reference another set of stars - the demons that Orabilis hurls up into the Malfean sky for learning things meant only for the Yozis.
A third really big taboo that crosses most of Creation is plague, and this is one that English doesn't really have an equivalent for. Dutch, however, proves surprisingly generous in offering vocabulary to fill the gap. Keris will probably revert back to telling people to catch cholera and die or calling them plague-bearers now that she's settled in Saata and feels all at home in a big (non-demonic) city. While the relative levels of sexism rise and fall depending on the area, ableist and racist slurs are, sadly, going to be common (check with your table before using these). Keris hasn't encountered much racism due to growing up in multicultural Nexus and spending time in the relatively-diverse Shore Lands, but they're exceptions to the rule - and even the Shore Lands has it, just less pointed and hateful than in other places.
Then there are the more region-specific things. "Bastard" is a very serious accusation in the Realm, especially among Dynastic culture - like, seriously, this will get you no-shit challenged to a duel and stabbed if you say it to a Dragonblood. Misbegotten and Those Who Serve The Radiance are an uncomfortable subject for the Tengese, and in some parts of Threshold people say "Realm" to rhyme with "Nazi" (though not where Realm troops can hear, or at least not more than once).
All in all, there's a big wide wonderful world of profanity and cursing to be found in Creation! A bit of thought into local and universal taboos will get you some far more diverse insults that NPCs can throw at your characters and which your characters can throw back. Deeply ingrained linguistic reflexes can give away an infiltrator who curses in a region-specific way, or just give flavour to a new location (and provide some information on their culture to those who think about it). So have fun, and roleplay colourfully! You little shits.
- Location
- Gladstone, OR
Hah, nicely done @Aleph!
On a related note, it's worth reminding everyone that the Realm is pragmatically matrilineal as far as I can tell. Historic earth culture made a big deal about tracking who the father is, but the Realm decides, generally, that the mother is more important in this kind of thing, mostly because it's pretty goddamn obvious who the mother is, and much easier to track.
On a related note, it's worth reminding everyone that the Realm is pragmatically matrilineal as far as I can tell. Historic earth culture made a big deal about tracking who the father is, but the Realm decides, generally, that the mother is more important in this kind of thing, mostly because it's pretty goddamn obvious who the mother is, and much easier to track.
Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
Also, the mother probably has more influence over the final purity of the bloodline, since Terrestrial expression isn't purely genetic - we know that the Realm cultivates special elemental manses to increase the chances of a portentous conception, for example (which must be result in each successive generation replacing the bed in that place, because very few people want to fuck on the sheets they were conceived in). If a V'neef Wood-aspect mother carries a child to term for nine months, it stands to reason - whether that's literally true or just the Realm's outlook - that she'll have more influence over the resulting bloodline than a Ledaal Air-aspect father who lay with her only a few nights before pregnancy was confirmed.
Similarly, if I were running with Half-Castes, I'd allow female Exalts to turn them out at a lower Essence than male ones, because a child that gestated inside a nuclear reactor has rather more chance of being born as a mutant freak than one whose dad happened to have radioactive sperm. Ditto that weird "hierarchy" system the Scroll of Exalts set up where Solar sperm beats Lunar eggs beats Dragon-blooded sperm or whatever the fuck it was. Mother determines the final outcome, father has some spiritual influence re golden hair or goat horns or whatever.
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- Location
- Virginia
I'm pretty sure in the Realm they still call folks from mountainous rural areas "goat-fuckers"
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm pretty sure in the Realm they still call folks from mountainous rural areas "goat-fuckers"
Plus of course, if anything the matrilineal nature of the Realm would, I assume, make Mother-fucker an even worse insult, because of the relatively greater importance of that side of the lineage, though that's just a guess.
Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
Presumably it takes on a different tenor in areas near Ma-Ha-Suchi's influence.I'm pretty sure in the Realm they still call folks from mountainous rural areas "goat-fuckers"
More like "dirty Commie" than "filthy deviant".
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Fair, but things like "slut" or "cocksucker" aren't really going to show up in Realm culture, because sexuality - especially female and lgbt sexuality - isn't looked down on. It's bastard children screwing with the DB breeding lines and bestiality that are the taboos, not the act of sex itself.I'm pretty sure in the Realm they still call folks from mountainous rural areas "goat-fuckers"
(of course, if you're a dirty Cynis, even those might not apply)
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
Speaking of taboo-based swearwords, should that make it so that anything related to drawn pictures is profane?
Longevity might be also something that is non-flattering when applied to mortals (contrary to usual historical attitudes) because it carries an implication of secretly using illegal longevity drugs.
Longevity might be also something that is non-flattering when applied to mortals (contrary to usual historical attitudes) because it carries an implication of secretly using illegal longevity drugs.
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Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
Some other things to note about sexuality and taboo in Creation:
First, while the Realm has no inherent sexism and treats sexuality as matter-of-fact it also still treats certain types of sex acts as worthy of condemnation. This is why House Cynis has a reputation for debauchery and spending magical materials a marital aids is considered wasteful. Nobody in the Realm is going to bat an eye if your Dragonblooded Princeling has a dozen boytoys on the side; however if he fails to perform his duty to the Realm in propagating the bloodline he's going to get a lot of familial and cultural pressure applied to him. So accusations of being promiscuous won't be curse, but accusations of being celibate will be (unless you are a Monk); as will accusations of being impotent and excessively masturbatory. Calling a Dragonblooded impotent or barren will probably start a blood feud and being accused of excessively wasteful sexuality will result in social censure to a certain degree (which is why what happens at Cynis parties stay at Cynis parties). As mentioned, bestiality is going to be really looked down on especially because it is associated with Lunar anathema.
Second; the Realm is remarkably egalitarian about sex but a lot of Creation is not. The West and the South both have Issues with sex, while still being fairly transgender friendly. Though much like racial slurs, this is the kind of thing that you shouldn't bring up at your table unless everyone is okay with it.
First, while the Realm has no inherent sexism and treats sexuality as matter-of-fact it also still treats certain types of sex acts as worthy of condemnation. This is why House Cynis has a reputation for debauchery and spending magical materials a marital aids is considered wasteful. Nobody in the Realm is going to bat an eye if your Dragonblooded Princeling has a dozen boytoys on the side; however if he fails to perform his duty to the Realm in propagating the bloodline he's going to get a lot of familial and cultural pressure applied to him. So accusations of being promiscuous won't be curse, but accusations of being celibate will be (unless you are a Monk); as will accusations of being impotent and excessively masturbatory. Calling a Dragonblooded impotent or barren will probably start a blood feud and being accused of excessively wasteful sexuality will result in social censure to a certain degree (which is why what happens at Cynis parties stay at Cynis parties). As mentioned, bestiality is going to be really looked down on especially because it is associated with Lunar anathema.
Second; the Realm is remarkably egalitarian about sex but a lot of Creation is not. The West and the South both have Issues with sex, while still being fairly transgender friendly. Though much like racial slurs, this is the kind of thing that you shouldn't bring up at your table unless everyone is okay with it.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Not really.
For both.
Longevity drugs aren't illegal in most places, just expensive and incredibly hard to get a regular supply of. For the common man, the illegal thing isn't their possession, but what you likely did to get your hands on them or entreat your supplier to do business with you. Plus there would no doubt be a brisk trade in all kinds of talismans, potions, creams and other such objects that traveling alchemists would claim to have all kinds of beneficial properties.
As for drawn pictures, even that wouldn't be profane. After all, in many places drawn pictures and hand held carved statues would be the closest thing they had to pornography!
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
Actually, why would Immaculate Monks even be celibate?
Temperance in their sexual behavior, sure.
But given that a good number of them are dragonblooded, and that propagating the bloodline is important, why would the order as a whole have celibate strictures?
And you can't really say "abstain from physical activities" there, since all those martial and athletic practices are very worldly either.
Maybe abstaining from pleasure - but in that case, I just see the immaculate philosophy turning sex into something to perfect, not for the pleasure, but for the sake of perfection. You practice to do it just right without getting distracted by the pleasure, which would turn Immaculate Monks into very very good lovers.
Temperance in their sexual behavior, sure.
But given that a good number of them are dragonblooded, and that propagating the bloodline is important, why would the order as a whole have celibate strictures?
And you can't really say "abstain from physical activities" there, since all those martial and athletic practices are very worldly either.
Maybe abstaining from pleasure - but in that case, I just see the immaculate philosophy turning sex into something to perfect, not for the pleasure, but for the sake of perfection. You practice to do it just right without getting distracted by the pleasure, which would turn Immaculate Monks into very very good lovers.
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
I meant in the Realm, because that's where these things are seen as unacceptable.
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
It's specifically part of the Coils of the Dragon and part of the process of enlightening into Celestial Martial Arts alongside abstaining from meat and intoxicants.
Though once you've learned the Charms you don't need to do it, so if you're a retired monk go have sex all you want (in fact, have all the sex with fertile people because even Monks have their duty to the Realm).
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
This seems highly abusable when combo'd with DoOB or other army killers. Especially if it is repeatable within a scene.