It seems wrong to me when a cinematic setting demands one to bump cinematic heroes to supernatural heroes, yet for some reason allows replicating same cinematic feats through Stunts. Why the resistance to the idea of there being cinematic yet not supernatural traits, particularly if the concept already exists in Exalted?
Stunts are basically supernatural in Exalted. The reason that they're free is because they take effort on the part of the player and generally aren't constant on. Having it be constant, no cost, no effort is counter to that idea.

And what exactly do you mean by cinematic setting/heroes? The phrase doesn't seem to have a clear or specific meaning.
 
Even in 2nd Edition Husband Seducing Demon Dance could charm the pants off of people with an incompatible sexual orientation to the one using the Charm. It's just that the end result wasn't sexually charged, unlike how it usually would manifest in cases where the sexual orientation is compatible.
 
It seems wrong to me when a cinematic setting demands one to bump cinematic heroes to supernatural heroes, yet for some reason allows replicating same cinematic feats through Stunts. Why the resistance to the idea of there being cinematic yet not supernatural traits, particularly if the concept already exists in Exalted?
In brief; Exalted is to some degree a cinematic game, but is emphatically not a cinematic setting. It's actually a very gritty setting, where people die of blood loss or infection or dysentry, not improbable death traps. James Bond isn't a mortal in Exalted, he's very firmly a Solar or Sidereal. Mortal heroes are the kind of people you'd find in the Black Company. This juxtaposition is an important part of the game, since it's what creates a lot of the sense of awe and power that surrounds the Exalted; they're not just action heroes, they're heroes who get to take a realistic, gritty world and stride through it like action heroes.
 
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Because in Exalted, there isn't much difference between Cinematic and supernatural. For the exalted, the supernatural IS there way of doing things. Also, if you get the same ablitiy through 7 merit points/BP that it takes me essence 3 and half a dozen charms to achieve, then as a player I'd be pretty damned pissed. Especially since it barely stops you from using the rest of your points to also be a kickass dawn caste killing machine for deadly effect. (Especially once we get into stuff like discrete essence armor and the like).

Solars achieve the cinematic through the supernatural, because their powers barely appear or act supernatural at all (thats what you get Green Sun Princes for)

Stunts are basically supernatural in Exalted. The reason that they're free is because they take effort on the part of the player and generally aren't constant on. Having it be constant, no cost, no effort is counter to that idea.

And what exactly do you mean by cinematic setting/heroes? The phrase doesn't seem to have a clear or specific meaning.
Perhaps my terminology is indeed unclear, particularly when encountered without clarifying context. I'll try to explain.

'Supernatural' stands for something that relies on outright magical, psionic, a superpower etc. 'Cinematic' stands for over-the-top ability that is nonetheless grounded in the possible, perhaps hovering slightly above it; a typical way of achieving a cinematic phenomenon would be taking the best historical case of a realistic phenomenon, and exaggerating it slightly, and/or taking the benchmark of a best real attempt and assuming that most attempts at a task go as good as that, and/or assuming that it takes way less training and dedication than it would take in real life; that sort of thing. I'll bring contrasting examples of the supernatural and the cinematic:
The Terminator (Supernatural, from Terminator) vs. John McClane (Cinematic, from Die Hard).
A Cainite with Celerity (oWoD) vs. Lee Jun-Fan (real life, but if you slightly hype up his real feats, you'll get cinematic speed).
Professor Xavier (X-Men) vs. Dr. Lightman (Lie to Me).
Daredevil (Marvel) or a Cainite with Auspex (oWoD) vs. a mortal with Acute Senses or the first-episode Jim Ellison (the Sentinel); the latter is probably stretching it somewhat.
Chance Harper (Strange Luck) vs. Sydney and Nigel (Relic Hunter).
Reed Richards (F5) vs. Leonardo da Vinci (as depicted in Assassin's Creed and probably many other fictional sources).
I'm not sure whom to oppose from the supernatural side versus Sherlock Holmes (as per Conan Doyle, but probably some of the films too).

The military history of real-life Audie Murphy seems to be one foot in the cinematic: apparently his autobiography film had to tone down his history to avoid people disbelieving it.

You can also approximate the cinematic as 'Stuff a Heroic Mortal does with Stunts'. Scroll of Heroes gave us ways to achieve it in a less flexible but more reliable way with some Merits (that sort of stuff is actually supported through Merit-like traits in some of the other systems, so it's not exatly a new outrageous idea).

I find it weird if Exalted, of all places, is incapable of supporting the idea of playing a Heroic Mortal of the likes of Lee Jun-Fan (hyped up), Sherlock Holmes, James Bond etc. That's kinda rough as far as granularity goes.
 
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Perhaps my terminology is indeed unclear, particularly when encountered without clarifying context. I'll try to explain.
Yeah, that helps.

Charms, in Exalted, are not Supernatural as you posit it. They can do that, sometimes, but a lot of (for example) Solar Charms are the kind of Cinematic power you're talking about. Batman in Exalted is a Solar (or some kind of Exalt, at least. Batman is a pretty broad concept in some ways), not because Batman is supposed to be the peak of human physical and mental skill, but because Batman does a lot of stuff that no actual human being can really do, because of comic book logic. Meanwhile, normal humans in Exalted just... Can't do that kind of thing. They're bound by realistic human limits.

Exalted can absolutely do Lee Jun-Fan, Sherlock Holmes or James Bond, but those characters are inspiration for Exalted - there's nothing particularly sacrosanct about being able to represent them as mortal characters.

If it helps, try to remember that Exalted cleaves to a style of magic more akin to Tolkien's elves, who can sail a ship through the sky simply because they have hundreds of years of practice and experience at sailing. Magic in Exalted isn't usually "outright magical, psionic, a superpower etc" like Professor X's telepathy or a Cainite with Celerity. Exalted magic does sometimes do that kind of thing, but it usually turns up with Lunars, Infernals or Sorcerers, and is a mark of how strange and inhuman those people are. That or it's Essence 4+ territory, in which case much of the same applies.
 
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If it helps, try to remember that Exalted cleaves to a style of magic more akin to Tolkien's elves, who can sail a ship through the sky simply because they have hundreds of years of practice and experience at sailing.

This is only true for Solars, though. All the other supernatural beings (Spirits, Dragon-blooded, Lunars, Sidereals, infernals, sorcerers of all types) are
"outright magical, psionic, a superpower etc"
 
Yeah, that helps.

Charms, in Exalted, are not Supernatural as you posit it. They can do that, sometimes, but a lot of (for example) Solar Charms are the kind of Cinematic power you're talking about. Batman in Exalted is a Solar, not because Batman is supposed to be the peak of human physical and mental skill, but because Batman does a lot of stuff that no actual human being can really do, because of comic book logic. Meanwhile, normal humans in Exalted just... Can't do that kind of thing. They're bound by realistic human limits.

Exalted can absolutely do Lee Jun-Fan, Sherlock Holmes or James Bond, but those characters are inspiration for Exalted - there's nothing particularly sacrosanct about being able to represent them as mortal characters.

If it helps, try to remember that Exalted cleaves to a style of magic more akin to Tolkien's elves, who can sail a ship through the sky simply because they have hundreds of years of practice and experience at sailing. Magic in Exalted isn't usually "outright magical, psionic, a superpower etc" like Professor X's telepathy or a Cainite with Celerity. Exalted magic does sometimes do that kind of thing, but it usually turns up with Lunars, Infernals or Sorcerers, and is a mark of how strange and inhuman those people are. That or it's Essence 4+ territory, in which case much of the same applies.
Charms are nearly always powered by spending a specific number of calculable units of magical energy that the setting's scholars know about and study scientifically, they have strict rules regarding when they may or may not be used depending on what other magic was used at that point, they result in flaring magical auras, and they can usually be dispelled or prevented by various antimagical (anti-Charm) effects or artifacts. I don't see how that can be claimed to not be outright supernatural. Also I really hope that you're talking about being unable to represent the 'TV Version' of Lee Jun-Fan with a Heroic Mortal, as being unable to represent an actual realistic mortal as even a Heroic Mortal would be . . . sad . . . for a system that is all about heroism.
 
Charms are nearly always powered by spending a specific number of calculable units of magical energy that the setting's scholars know about and study scientifically, they have strict rules regarding when they may or may not be used depending on what other magic was used at that point, they result in flaring magical auras, and they can usually be dispelled or prevented by various antimagical (anti-Charm) effects or artifacts. I don't see how that can be claimed to not be outright supernatural. Also I really hope that you're talking about being unable to represent the 'TV Version' of Lee Jun-Fan with a Heroic Mortal, as being unable to represent an actual realistic mortal as even a Heroic Mortal would be . . . sad . . . for a system that is all about heroism.
Yes, but these are out-of-setting abstractions. In setting, scholars of the First Age could explain to you in detail how breathing worked in strict, measurable terms of Essence exchange, how walking does, how the forging of steel involves least gods singing songs of transmutation to the iron and coal. Everything in Creation runs on explicit supernatural magic. That's the point. It's an animistic setting. Exalted are just better at it and have more magic to spend.

In some ways it's a bit like oMage there, where "convincing someone to do something" is a Mind rote and "guessing tomorrow's weather by extrapolating from past experience" is Time magic; just so universally accepted that they're not seen as magic anymore by Consensus. Exalted isn't a subjective reality, but it still shares the trait that there is no divide between "magic" and "how things normally work" - the latter is the former; the only difference is scale.

Edit: You're also wrong about the antimagic, incidentally. You can't stop a Solar using Fire and Stones Strike with an antimagic aura any more than you can stop a mortal hitting you with a sword. And those things you can stop - a Perfect social defence or anti-Poison Charm defending you against UMI or supernatural toxins - also work perfectly well against mundane, mortal arguments or venoms. In-setting, they are the same thing. The game engine is an abstraction; the map, not the territory.
 
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This is only true for Solars, though. All the other supernatural beings (Spirits, Dragon-blooded, Lunars, Sidereals, infernals, sorcerers of all types) are "outright magical, psionic, a superpower etc"
Ehhh, not so much. Sidereal Fate-trickery is often covert by its nature, and tends to represent the kind of shenanigans that Wise Old Masters get up to, and while Dragon-Blooded definitely do overt A:tLA style element-bending, there's a lot of less obvious effects that rely on metaphorical elemental associations. Spirits vary a lot like always, and even Lunars aren't all overt magic all the time, although for canon Lunars that's partly due to their widespread Silver Solar problem. Still, even TAW's don't have Obvious on all their Charms.

What is true almost solely for Solars is that they're the ones who run on straightforward "Do X, Excellently" logic for their magic. Everybody else tends to filter their magic through more esoteric lenses.
Charms are nearly always powered by spending a specific number of calculable units of magical energy that the setting's scholars know about and study scientifically, they have strict rules regarding when they may or may not be used depending on what other magic was used at that point, they result in flaring magical auras, and they can usually be dispelled or prevented by various antimagical (anti-Charm) effects or artifacts. I don't see how that can be claimed to not be outright supernatural.
I was going to answer this, but uh, Aleph did it better than me, faster than me. Just go read her post above again, she's a smart lady.

Batman in Creation is an Exalt; everything he does because of comic book logic that actual, real people can't, he does in Exalted as a Charm, and occasionally he glows while doing it.
 
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In some ways it's a bit like oMage there, where "convincing someone to do something" is a Mind rote and "guessing tomorrow's weather by extrapolating from past experience" is Time magic; just so universally accepted that they're not seen as magic anymore by Consensus. Exalted isn't a subjective reality, but it still shares the trait that there is no divide between "magic" and "how things normally work" - the latter is the former; the only difference is scale.

To expand a bit on this, in Exalted the Loom of fate takes the function that in oWOD does the consensus, AKA, to regulate the "mundane" interactions and physics. You can call magic to those processes that go beyond Fate regulates (When you use charms), but that is a deceptive distinction. The Loom of fate works manipulating (At very large scale) the same basic laws of reality that charms use to work.
 
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Yes, but these are out-of-setting abstractions. In setting, scholars of the First Age could explain to you in detail how breathing worked in strict, measurable terms of Essence exchange, how walking does, how the forging of steel involves least gods singing songs of transmutation to the iron and coal. Everything in Creation runs on explicit supernatural magic. That's the point. It's an animistic setting. Exalted are just better at it and have more magic to spend.

In some ways it's a bit like oMage there, where "convincing someone to do something" is a Mind rote and "guessing tomorrow's weather by extrapolating from past experience" is Time magic; just so universally accepted that they're not seen as magic anymore by Consensus. Exalted isn't a subjective reality, but it still shares the trait that there is no divide between "magic" and "how things normally work" - the latter is the former; the only difference is scale.

Edit: You're also wrong about the antimagic, incidentally. You can't stop a Solar using Fire and Stones Strike with an antimagic aura any more than you can stop a mortal hitting you with a sword. And those things you can stop - a Perfect social defence or anti-Poison Charm defending you against UMI or supernatural toxins - also work perfectly well against mundane, mortal arguments or venoms. In-setting, they are the same thing. The game engine is an abstraction; the map, not the territory.

Yes you definitely can stop a Solar using Fire and Stones Strike. Just put a Duelling Torc or Manacles of Night onto the Solar, and s/he will suddenly get all his/her/its non-Permanent Charms dispelled, and will become unable to spend Essence. There are also Charms that do things like 'and now dispel all target Charms that do X or Y', but I'm not ready to hunt for all of them.

Your point of everything being Essence-powered is very insightful (not sarcasm), but you also miss the point that one might as well say that everything in our world is Energy-powered: there's Essence and there's Essence, just like there's Energy and there's Energy, and the different categories are not the same. The sort of Essence that grants superhuman magic when used (and that is disrupted by antimagic magic or artifacts) or is different from the living Essence of mortal biology (that is largely okay with wearing those artifacts).

I do get that 3e wants to keep the stance that Charms don't exist and everything is an abstraction in some D&D-ish 'HitPoints == Luck And Grit *And* Health too' sort of way, but I'm not talking about 3e.

On MtA: interestingly, the way I've seen it played around here, predicting the weather was possible to do in more than one way - Time would be for precognition, Mind would be for weather-pattern calculation, and Spirit would be for asking the wind-spirit about its plans for tomorrow. I'm not sure how that conforms to different editions' descriptions (it's been a long while), but that seemed to be a consensus/universally accepted reading.
 
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Charms are nearly always powered by spending a specific number of calculable units of magical energy that the setting's scholars know about and study scientifically
Motes are like calories.

The sort of Essence that grants superhuman magic when used (and that is disrupted by antimagic magic or artifacts) or is different from the living Essence of mortal biology (that is largely okay with wearing those artifacts).
The sort of Essence an Exalt uses for their charms is exactly like the Essence they use for the same things mortals do. A mortal with supernatural abilities uses the same Essence for their mystical kung fu and their breathing.
 
Yes you definitely can stop a Solar using Fire and Stones Strike. Just put a Duelling Torc or Manacles of Night onto the Solar, and s/he will suddenly get all his/her/its non-Permanent Charms dispelled, and will become unable to spend Essence. There are also Charms that do things like 'and now dispel all target Charms that do X or Y', but I'm not ready to hunt for all of them.
Yes, but Duelling Torc's and Manacles of Night are both terrible Artifacts written by people who clearly had a poor understanding of Artifacts and Exalted in general, because if Manacles of Night are a thing, how come the Wyld Hunt hasn't slapped them on every hostile Exalt to turn them into helpless mortals who can be safely locked up for a few thousand years until they die of old age?

Also they were both published in Oadenal's Codex, which seems to think that a warm coat is an artifact. It's got some good stuff in it, but as a whole the book and everything in it should be viewed with suspicion, and ignored if they seem to break the setting.

As for Charms... No, sorry, I don't believe you. There are Charms to break mental influence on others, and Abyssals have All Dreams Die to block Shaping in an area, but Charms to simply terminate another Exalt's magic? I rather doubt that.
 
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Yes you definitely can stop a Solar using Fire and Stones Strike. Just put a Duelling Torc or Manacles of Night onto the Solar, and s/he will suddenly get all his/her/its non-Permanent Charms dispelled, and will become unable to spend Essence. There are also Charms that do things like 'and now dispel all target Charms that do X or Y', but I'm not ready to hunt for all of them.
See, we're once again getting into "I think those are bad writing", and the reason for that isn't even anything to do with this; it's that they allow you to reliably imprison an Exalt. That's awful precedent. That's horrific precedent. If that is in any way reliably possible, the Primordials would have won the War, frankly, because they'd just have made things that stopped Exalts using their Charms and then locked them all in jail. The whole point of the Exaltation, the thing the setting is founded on, the reason they were made; is that you can't stop the fucking things. If you kill them, they come back. If you command them, they disobey. If you imprison them, they escape. If you challenge them, they grow stronger. They were created, as an explicit design intention, such that they were impossible to stop, or hinder, or subvert, or destroy. Which is another reason for Creation being the way it is; because nobody can turn them off now that their original purpose is long-since achieved.

Stomping all over that precedent for the sake of a couple of artifacts that let you completely shut down a player's agency is, in my view, almost as bad as making a Spell that lets you literally delete Charms from a person's character sheet. It's setting-breaking in-universe and it's bad game design out-of-universe, because it blatantly attacks player agency by denying them access to internal, self-sufficient things that they have paid for. One of the first checks that should be done when making a game effect - especially one that sets a precedent like "it is possible to deny an Exalt the ability to use their personal Charms" - is "does this break the entire history of the setting/balance of the game over its knee?" Whoever wrote these Artifacts clearly did not make that check.

... okay Imrix, you win the race this time. Bah, humbug, etc.
 
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As for Charms... No, sorry, I don't believe you. There are Charms to break mental influence on others, and Abyssals have All Dreams Die to block Shaping in an area, but Charms to simply terminate another Exalt's magic? I rather doubt that.

Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Style, I believe.
 
See, we're once again getting into "I think those are bad writing", and the reason for that isn't even anything to do with this; it's that they allow you to reliably imprison an Exalt. That's awful precedent. That's horrific precedent. If that is in any way reliably possible, the Primordials would have won the War, frankly, because they'd just have made things that stopped Exalts using their Charms and then locked them all in jail. The whole point of the Exaltation, the thing the setting is founded on, the reason they were made; is that you can't stop the fucking things. If you kill them, they come back. If you command them, they disobey. If you imprison them, they escape. If you challenge them, they grow stronger. They were created, as an explicit design intention, such that they were impossible to stop, or hinder, or subvert, or destroy. Which is another reason for Creation being the way it is; because nobody can turn them off now that their original purpose is long-since achieved.

Stomping all over that precedent for the sake of a couple of artifacts that let you completely shut down a player's agency is, in my view, almost as bad as making a Spell that lets you literally delete Charms from a person's character sheet. It's setting-breaking in-universe and it's bad game design out-of-universe, because it blatantly attacks player agency by denying them access to internal, self-sufficient things that they have paid for. One of the first checks that should be done when making a game effect - especially one that sets a precedent like "it is possible to deny an Exalt the ability to use their personal Charms" - is "does this break the entire history of the setting/balance of the game over its knee?" Whoever wrote these Artifacts clearly did not make that check.

... okay Imrix, you win the race this time. Bah, humbug, etc.

Yes, but Duelling Torc's and Manacles of Night are both terrible Artifacts written by people who clearly had a poor understanding of Artifacts and Exalted in general, because if Manacles of Night are a thing, how come the Wyld Hunt hasn't slapped them on every hostile Exalt to turn them into helpless mortals who can be safely locked up for a few thousand years until they die of old age?

Also they were both published in Oadenal's Codex, which seems to think that a warm coat is an artifact. It's got some good stuff in it, but as a whole the book should be viewed with suspicion, and ignored if they seem to break the setting.
Regarding a safe way to imprison a Solar with those manacles being the way to sidestep the reincarnate-upon-dying zerg rush:
Actually, if you can somehow capture a Solar well enough to bind it with manacles, then you can also capture a Solar and dose it with some sort of sedative, and keep the dosage at such a level as to ensure incapacitation but not death, particularly when you have a whole division of alchemical R&D for the purpose. It's fiddly, but there are only 300ish Solars. Actually seems similar enough to the Jade Prison in concept. Really, finding ways to incapacitate immortals is kinda the first thing that people start thinking about when they hear of something like that.
I thought it was just impractical due to rescue teams legions attacking any such prisons, and transportation of such valuable prisoners is kinda fiddlier too.

Also, more on the gaming-philosophy side, I find it interesting how differently we see 'unusual precedents'. When you see something that breaks a trend (whether a real one or imagined, but let's say there are some such real trends in Exalted), you call it a bad precedent. When I see a trend-breaking phenomenon, I see it as an opportunity to be seized, an invitation to make a plot out of it, a potential way for a character to become rich and famous, a new tool for the arsenal. Einstein did not become world-famous by leering at non-Newtonian phenomena as a bad precedent to be abandoned - he seized it as an opportunity and became the enabler of progress. This actually reminds me of my discussion with my GM regarding the lack of crossbows: sure, there are probably ways to capture an intact crossbow without letting the Haslant pull the pin that dismantles it into a pile of components and then to reverse-engineer it, but that's not something to fear that the PCs will do and have badwrong fun - no, it's a story of heroic espionage and [re]invention waiting to be told.

As for Charms... No, sorry, I don't believe you. There are Charms to break mental influence on others, and Abyssals have All Dreams Die to block Shaping in an area, but Charms to simply terminate another Exalt's magic? I rather doubt that.
As a newbie, I kinda feel uncomfortable in this situation, but okay, here goes:
Armour-Shattering Strike said:
Should the attack also actually inflict damage, the Solar may pay an extra 1m to immediately cancel all Charms, spells and astrological powers with a duration greater than Instant but less than Permanent which provide the target with increased soak or hardness. This nullification is a Shaping effect.
 
Actually, if you can somehow capture a Solar well enough to bind it with manacles, then you can also capture a Solar and dose it with some sort of sedative, and keep the dosage at such a level as to ensure incapacitation but not death, particularly when you have a whole division of alchemical R&D for the purpose. It's fiddly, but there are only 300ish Solars. Actually seems similar enough to the Jade Prison in concept. Really, finding ways to incapacitate immortals is kinda the first thing that people start thinking about when they hear of something like that.

This doesn't actually work.

After a while, the Solar would develop inmunity to everything technique and shrug the drug away.
 
Still not qualitatively comparable to Merits and Flaws.
Backgrunds/Specialties/Motivations/Intimacies don't affect who will be you're character's enemy throughout the campaign, only whom your character will treat as an enemy.

What kind of terrible grasp of the setting do you have that your Backgrounds, Motivation and Intimacies do not create enemies?

Remember Resources doesn't respresent literal Jade Talents you carry in your backpack like some D&Desque murderhobo. They are stuff like titles and deeds and investment. Every source of income creates enemies from those who want your money. Your Motivation creates enemies out of everyone who opposes it. Your Intimacies create enemies out of everyone who threatens them.

And as for seducing the wrong gender? Specialty "Seducing People Not Interested In My Gender" is a valid specialty.
 
This doesn't actually work.

After a while, the Solar would develop inmunity to everything technique and shrug the drug away.
I thought training to do Charms requires actual training, as opposed to just lying Incapacitated while a situation comes up where having been trained in a charm would be useful in retrospect. You know, the differene between undergoing a schedule of gradual cold-weather conditioning, and just being thrown out of a house in the Northern Winter.
 
I thought training to do Charms requires actual training, as opposed to just lying Incapacitated while a situation comes up where having been trained in a charm would be useful in retrospect. You know, the differene between undergoing a schedule of gradual cold-weather conditioning, and just being thrown out of a house in the Northern Winter.
I would consider "Constantly having to make Stamina + Resistance rolls because I'm being drugged" a valid training time for a Resistance Charm.
 
Actually, if you can somehow capture a Solar well enough to bind it with manacles, then you can also capture a Solar and dose it with some sort of sedative, and keep the dosage at such a level as to ensure incapacitation but not death, particularly when you have a whole division of alchemical R&D for the purpose. It's fiddly, but there are only 300ish Solars. Actually seems similar enough to the Jade Prison in concept. Really, finding ways to incapacitate immortals is kinda the first thing that people start thinking about when they hear of something like that.
Any time an Exalt spends imprisoned is training time to break out. The Jade Prison worked because the Exaltations were captured while outside Exalts (though it still didn't work on the Lunars).

You know, the differene between undergoing a schedule of gradual cold-weather conditioning, and just being thrown out of a house in the Northern Winter.
One part of the training for Fire Dragon Style involves being set on fire.
When Exalts get hard-core about training, they get hard-core. Sitting naked on the peak of the mountain nearest the Pole of Air during Rising Air (winter) would, in fact, count as very high-level training for Resistance and general environmental hazard charms.
 
Actually, if you can somehow capture a Solar well enough to bind it with manacles, then you can also capture a Solar and dose it with some sort of sedative, and keep the dosage at such a level as to ensure incapacitation but not death, particularly when you have a whole division of alchemical R&D for the purpose.
Yes... But a; a Solar would treat that as training time to develop Charms like Immunity to Everything Technique for reasons already stated by Walker above, and b; that's both more effort-intensive and less certain. "Similar enough to the Jade Prison" is not a good thing; the Jade Prison is kind of intentionally something that runs counter to the usual themes of Exalted, as a mark of how mighty an undertaking the Usurpation was, and as a necessary measure for the history to work. It's not something that should be replicated.
Also, more on the gaming-philosophy side, I find it interesting how differently we see 'unusual precedents'. When you see something that breaks a trend (whether a real one or imagined, but let's say there are some such real trends in Exalted), you call it a bad precedent. When I see a trend-breaking phenomenon, I see it as an opportunity to be seized, an invitation to make a plot out of it, a potential way for a character to become rich and famous, a new tool for the arsenal.
Sure, but the problem with that is that we're talking about a setting populated by demigods with Lore/Craft/Intelligence/Whatever Excellencies, so if you introduce a potential way for a character to become rich and famous, you immediately have to think about how people have already tried/are trying to use it to become rich and famous.
Revlid said:
... In your standard D&D setting, a Canteen of Endless Water might be picked up in a tomb somewhere by a ragtag band of adventurers, an ancient relic that is used to ease the burden of supplies, and maybe sold later on for a +1 Sword of Cutting. In Exalted, an entire city might be built around these few surviving Canteens of Endless Water, used to power watermills, produce infinite clean drinking water, and (with a little engineering) create an artificial river stemming from the center of the city. Scholars will dedicate their lives to figuring out how these canteens work, priests will build religions around them (and gods will take credit for them), elite sage-artisans will labour and tinker to produce even a single copy of one. Wars will break out over these canteens in times of drought, and the economic edge that this artifact (considered trivial in D&D thanks to its limited personal use) will lead the city to independent dominance of the region. Provided, of course, that the guys next door didn't unearth an Essence-cannon rather than a canteen.

People react to stuff, and sometimes they do so in stupid ways (because people are people), but not consistently (because people continue to survive). If something exists in Creation, someone, somewhere, is exploiting it or thinking up a new way to exploit it. If they're not, their rivals will, and then they get edged out of the market/ideological war/technology race/literal war.
I mean it's notable that you take crossbows as your example, because quite a few people tend to take the view that crossbows being some wonder of lost technology in Creation is bloody stupid. Crossbows are a fairly simple weapon that have been developed in parallel across the length and breadth of our world as early as the 6th Century B.C.E. There's a section of the Art of War devoted to their use; the greeks were using them not long after. The idea that it takes First Age knowledge to design and construct them just makes everybody in the Age of Sorrows look like idiots.
As a newbie, I kinda feel uncomfortable in this situation, but okay, here goes:
Sigh. I'm not sure whether to groan 'Ink Monkeys' or 'Shaping' as I pinch my nose over that.
 
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What kind of terrible grasp of the setting do you have that your Backgrounds, Motivation and Intimacies do not create enemies?

Remember Resources doesn't respresent literal Jade Talents you carry in your backpack like some D&Desque murderhobo. They are stuff like titles and deeds and investment. Every source of income creates enemies from those who want your money. Your Motivation creates enemies out of everyone who opposes it. Your Intimacies create enemies out of everyone who threatens them.

And as for seducing the wrong gender? Specialty "Seducing People Not Interested In My Gender" is a valid specialty.
You seem to be talking of possible ways of screwing up one's agenda in such a way as to make enemies, e.g. rising to power through intimidation, backstabbery and stepping on someone else's toes as opposed to by charming everyone else to the point of convincing them to just step down willingly. That's the stuff that happens in the campaign depending on in-campaign actions.
I'm talking about enemies as a drawback you start with (and possibly retain in spite of your best effort to eliminate or befriend them) as a drawback of a character, in exchange for having an extra point or two to spend elsewhere. (I'm also not talking about the Designated Enemy that happens to become the enemy of the whole Circle because a plot hinges on it.)
I'm talking about Flaws/Drawbacks/Disadvantages of the same sort as starting a game with one eye/hand/leg, of perpetually having bad luck, being in debt, having a restrictive code of honour etc. Are we having a game-system-paradigm/-philosophy incompatibility?

Also, not necessarily the wrong sex, but rather anything incompatible for orientational reasons. Robosexual Autochtonian Populat? Check. Asexual former soldier ("War changes everyone in a different way . . .")? Check. Lithosexual mountain-spirit? Check. The sort of mythic beauty that transcends boundaries. Again, Asari are probably the best example: they're not particularly pretty (okay, maybe a little), but their allure is definitely Applicable against pretty much anything worth using it on.
 
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