Just swing by any slum or hall of power, it'll qualify.
General Exalted Thread
Just swing by any slum or hall of power, it'll qualify.
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... she did learn it. Back with Salina, and... ah, the title got screwed up so it's not showing up on the ToC on her character sheet. Fixed.
While it has joined the Hoard and put her "Exalted Weapons" treasure trove up to two dots, I can reveal the mechanics:
EarthScorpion: And of course, she now has a Hegran blade.
Aleph: Yes.
EarthScorpion: It's got an artefact effect
EarthScorpion: of madness
Aleph: Ooooo~
Aleph: ... for people who use it, or people who get hit by it?
EarthScorpion: It's a built in spell that can be charged up to fire off a cloud of black lightning that drives people in the AoE insane.
Aleph: Sweeeeeet.
The 3rd Edition is out for backers of the Kickstarter campaign, who all received a copy of the PDF in a last, crowdsourced spellcheck attempt. The actual, final version PDFs and the physical prints will be sent some time later this month.
It's not yet available for sale.
- Location
- Spain
She knows how to summon demons.
What she can't summon are her devas, since those aren't actually mechanically real until she learns Titanic Heart Overweening. Until then, her subsouls are just interesting pieces of fluff and as such they can't actually be summoned.
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
She can summon her devas, since technically she's not fully bound by the surrender oaths and thus her First Circles are all sort of weird demon/deva hybrids that can be banished but can't be summoned or bound. What she can't summon are her souls - who are in the set of her deva, but aren't the entire set.
She is actually probably going to try summoning one of them anyway - most likely either Echo or Haneyl depending on who argues their case better - since she obviously doesn't know this to be the case. It should be an amusing little bit of RP.
As has already been mentioned, it's only out for backers right now. If you want to see a very nice preview of its mechanic, you can google "exalted combat 301". That should show you the thread on the rpg.net forums. I'd link it directly, but the site is blocked at work, so I can't.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
It's been pre-released, but it hasn't been generally released. At least one last editorial pass must happen first.
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
Any evidence of causality violations in the settings is not evidence, because it's bad writing, and it is bad writing because causality is sacred in Exalted. That's pretty circular.
Why are you discarding the idea that if the book on Sorcery, the book on Malfeas, and the book on Infernals all three contain mentions of ways of getting info and/or stuff to/from Malfeas in less than five days, then maybe the five-day minimum is a property of the path taken through Cecelyne (not of Malfeas-Creation connections in general), and causality in Exalted is not as inviolate as the cause-optimists are inclined to believe. After all, it's not like the topic of the conflict between causality-enforcing and causality-dodging factions isn't a thing in Exalted. (And the existence of predictive astrology, of the Broken Crane book, or even something as simple as being able to reliably hit a target with a bow at 900+ yards in combat all indicate that it is possible to get future info in the present somehow in Exalted.)
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
That seems to be not the first time this statement is made, and yet it seems to be 100% unfounded, since it is the Reclamation that is the central apocalyptic scenario in the canon of Exalted, not the Oblivionisation nor the Second Balorian Crusade. (In fact, I haven't heard of similarly threatening canonical scenarios in Exalted canon for Wyld Ones and the Dead Ones.)
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
This is true now, but it really only became true late in 2e's life cycle when MoEP: Infernals was published, and is widely regarded as having done terrible things to the game.
So, accepting that the 5 days rule is an integral part of making Hell look cool, anything that breaks that down is automatically bad.
But we can still use things that allow you to enter Cecelyne from anywhere just fine, right? Say, those keys that canonically open a door right into the City (and are thus bad) instead open a door into Cecelyne to start the 5 day trek. The benefit is being able to get there from anywhere rather than from a number of pre-set gates that nobody remembers.
But we can still use things that allow you to enter Cecelyne from anywhere just fine, right? Say, those keys that canonically open a door right into the City (and are thus bad) instead open a door into Cecelyne to start the 5 day trek. The benefit is being able to get there from anywhere rather than from a number of pre-set gates that nobody remembers.
The Reclamation is a very recent development in the metaplot, before that the major expected disasters were the Realm Civil War, a Second Balorean Crusade, the rise of the armies of the Death, another Great Contagion, the return of Authochtonia or a major demonic incursion. And yes, I mean 'major demonic incursion,' not 'the Yozi are escaping.'
And you know what? That's a good thing. Because against all those Creation shaking threats the Exalted, even as lacking in unity as they do, can handle those threats, and you can scale them to the Circle's level without being obligated to having everyone in Creation pile in.
But the Reclamation? The Reclamation is an existential threat to Creation and cannot be dialed down. The moment that starts the entire focus of the campaign will turn to the Reclamation, and no other plot will be anywhere near as important as supporting or stopping it.
It was rightly struck from the list of possible threats during the transition to the 3rd Edition.
Or you can accept that 'instant for the character' isn't the same as 'instant for everyone else.'
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vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
I thought the hints that this was gonna happen dated pretty far back, roughly or nearly to the 2e Core.
I thought the whole point of epic-scale campaigns is that at some point you do run into an epic-scale threat that is absolutely world-shattering, rooted in the deepest history of the setting, all-encompassing, impossible to ignore, requiring the ultimate effort and unity (and probably some number of sacrifices) etc. etc. Given all the hype regarding Exalted being about high-level play, it feels natural for a setting to have a threat that is deeply integral to the setting and of enormous scale, worthy of being compared to the Primordial War in Exalted . . . or the Reaper Invasion in Mass Effect.
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Because one of the fundamental themes that Exalted was founded upon was No Takebacks. This isn't just a base element of Hell, or even of the magic, this is literally one of the foundational-level conceits that the line began with, before anything else, right down in the bedrock the rest of the game is built on. No Takebacks. Period. It was intended from Day One, Page One that this was not like DnD. If you die, there is no resurrection to bring you back. If you kill someone, there is no way to undo it. If you fuck up and your empire falls, you can't travel back in time and avert the catastrophe. If you lose everything you love, you can't set up a stable time loop so that it just appeared that way and actually your loved ones are fine.
No Takebacks. Ever. This is inherent to the line; to the backstory, the themes of usurpation and decay of the shining eras of old, the magnificence of the lost wonders of the High First Age made so because they are lost and will take thousands of years of work to rebuild.
No Takebacks.
And so anything that violates that - and anything that lets you get from Malfeas to Cecelyne in less than five days does violate that, because it lets you causally propagate messages backwards in time and lets your future self "undo" things that have happened by warning themselves five days in the past that it's going to happen - is in violation of this base-level setting fact, and should be purged. I do not hold the writers as sacred. I do not care if they put evidence of causality violations in the book, because there have been many writers and a lot of them were, bluntly, shit at their jobs - see Scroll of the Monk - and so if that evidence is there then all it means is that they didn't read Page One, Line One; No Takebacks and think hard about what that meant. It means that they saw an opportunity for a cool effect - hey, skip this annoying travel time! - and didn't put in the double-checking necessary to see that it resulted in time travel, which is banned.
It means, in essence, that they made a mistake. This is hardly news. Exalted is full of writers not thinking through the knock-on effects and implications of what they've written. That's where paranoia combat comes from. That's where lethality comes from. That's where crap like Cobra Styles and the various utterly broken stuff in Scroll of the Monk comes from.
But the fluff all the way back to the roots of the line has been very clear on No Takebacks. It's one of the most sacred parts of the setting, and what gives the actions in it such weight. There is no Resurrection spell waiting to bring you back if you screw up and die; there is no Wish that lets you undo your greatest mistake and change things so you never betrayed your brothers for a moment's greed, there is no Undo Button that can fix things after you break them. You have to build them anew, and hope nobody else breaks them once you're finished. That is why Creation is in the state it is in.
So yeah. No Takebacks. Rule One. Anything that violates it should be scoured away with fire, and causality violations that break the 5-day light cone qualify. If you want to talk about removing the 5-day light cone entirely, that's another argument, and one that @Aaron Peori has already addressed, but as long as it stands, it's absolute.
Edit: You also appear to be confusing causality violation in the sense of "Fate says one thing should happen, I say differently" with causality violation in the sense of "I can send a message back in time to my past self telling her not to go to Nexus because my family will be killed in my absence". The former is fine, because Fate - and the Broken Winged Crane, and working out where someone's going to dodge when you shoot arrows at them from 900 yards away - are predictions. Very powerful predictions that are enforced by magic in some cases, but nonetheless predictions that can be proven wrong, especially if the subject has magic on their side too. The latter, though, is actively retconning the past, and that is just a flat No; period.
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- Location
- Spain
Sometimes. But having a completely un-ignorable threat pre-written is bad, bad metaploting. It devours all other possible stories. The Return of the Solars and the fight against the Realm is the true heart of Exalted, not the Reclamation.
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sure, that's fine. Hell, you can go one further and have them let you travel down sand-strewn corridors for 5 days, negating the need for navigation and the possibility of being hit by a molten glassstorm or attracting the attention of a giant sandworm behemoth and having your entire army killed by environmental hazards or eaten. Or even make it so that you don't experience the time there, as @Hazard says. But the travel time still occurs.
- Location
- Quezon City, Philippines
Clarification on some things. Cecylene surround Malfeas. Does that mean she also surrounds Kimbery, and that there is no way for a sailboat to travel Malfeas? Or can I just say that sailboats have to traverse a Dead Sea before reaching Malfeas proper or am I stuck to what Captain Jack Sparrow did in Pirates of the Caribbean?
Also, since I threw out the stupid Scarlet Empress being married to TED plotline, I need a new act of villainy. Is a version Chronic Backstabbing Disorder (name pending), where you betray someone for the lulz, an acceptable alternative to Exquisite Bride Obsession?
Also, since I threw out the stupid Scarlet Empress being married to TED plotline, I need a new act of villainy. Is a version Chronic Backstabbing Disorder (name pending), where you betray someone for the lulz, an acceptable alternative to Exquisite Bride Obsession?
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vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
Hmmm. I can understand a stance against metaplots, period. I also get the idea that the Reclamation plot should only become both known to the PCs and an actual imminent threat only late in a campaign. But I don't get why the fight against the Realm being the big overshadowing heart of Exalted is okay, but fighting against the Reclamation isn't. (I'd be mildly annoyed if our current plots in the campaign I play in were interrupted/overshadowed by the Realm showing up en masse and starting a war already.)
- Location
- Spain
I will quote Aleph for this. This is from her guide to writing Plot-hooks:
Basically, the Realm being hostile to the returning Solars, or Autochton dying, are setting conceits, and as such, they can be allowed to be un-ignorable parts of the narrative.
The reclamation is a Plot-hook, not a setting central point. Something that GM's can ignore if they want. But since you can hardly ignore a world-ending threat, it warps the setting and takes a central place that doesn't belong to a mere plot-hook.
Be possible to ignore if you don't want to use them. This? This is the biggest thing that separates a plot point from a setting conceit. It should not be possible to ignore the Wyld Hunt - or at least the potential threat they pose - if you are in the inner Threshold or the Blessed Isle. They are a setting conceit; the Dragonblooded are opposed to you, and you are a hero alone in a setting that largely hates and fears you, on a quest to reclaim your place in it. But a plot point, you should not be forced to deal with or else. The Deathlords, who will destroy Creation yesterday if you don't drop everything to stop them. The Bull of the North, whose six-person circle of Solars craps over any other stories told in the North [1], because you have to deal with them before you can do anything else there. The Ebon Dragon breaking out of Malfeas by marrying the Scarlet Empress, the Unconquered Sun who everything in the bloody setting revolves around... these are not plot hooks, these are railroads that characters are forced to deal with or they annihilate the setting. This is not good storytelling. This is boring and aggravating, and after a while it starts to feel more like a chore than anything fun. I don't think anything in the setting is on the level where being forced to deal with it is a setting conceit, and so this sort of framing of supposed plot hooks needs to stop.
[..]
The difference between a plot hook and a setting conceit fundamentally comes down to how vital it is to the basic precepts of the game. The theme of the Celestial Exalted being outcastes in the Age of Sorrows is one of the most basic parts about their characterisation, and pretty much can't be ignored. Likewise, the theme of "no takebacks" is crucial to the very backbone of the game; you shouldn't be able to ignore things like "no resurrection" without houseruling.
Most things, however, are not on this level. The Deathlords should be antagonistic on the broad scale, yes, but they need not be a vast and immediate threat in the short term [3]. The Yozis should definitely be pushed back into the background and made setting fluff rather than plot hooks, and Lunar elders (who have the exact same problems as the Deathlords, though not quite as bad) shouldn't be one-dimensional monsters who you murder out of common sense [4]. Plot hooks, as a general thing, should be set up such that you can get both candy or grenades if you decide to yank on them this way or that. But they should notbe set up to fire a nuke at your face if you do neither. Being able to take a plot hook or leave it is the most important thing about one, and writers trying to force their pet hooks into the metaplot by sensationalising them with "this is the most important thing of all the things, and it will destroy the whole of the West if YOU don't stop it now!" are a major cause of the toxic scale inflation currently ailing the setting as a whole.
[..]
The difference between a plot hook and a setting conceit fundamentally comes down to how vital it is to the basic precepts of the game. The theme of the Celestial Exalted being outcastes in the Age of Sorrows is one of the most basic parts about their characterisation, and pretty much can't be ignored. Likewise, the theme of "no takebacks" is crucial to the very backbone of the game; you shouldn't be able to ignore things like "no resurrection" without houseruling.
Most things, however, are not on this level. The Deathlords should be antagonistic on the broad scale, yes, but they need not be a vast and immediate threat in the short term [3]. The Yozis should definitely be pushed back into the background and made setting fluff rather than plot hooks, and Lunar elders (who have the exact same problems as the Deathlords, though not quite as bad) shouldn't be one-dimensional monsters who you murder out of common sense [4]. Plot hooks, as a general thing, should be set up such that you can get both candy or grenades if you decide to yank on them this way or that. But they should notbe set up to fire a nuke at your face if you do neither. Being able to take a plot hook or leave it is the most important thing about one, and writers trying to force their pet hooks into the metaplot by sensationalising them with "this is the most important thing of all the things, and it will destroy the whole of the West if YOU don't stop it now!" are a major cause of the toxic scale inflation currently ailing the setting as a whole.
Basically, the Realm being hostile to the returning Solars, or Autochton dying, are setting conceits, and as such, they can be allowed to be un-ignorable parts of the narrative.
The reclamation is a Plot-hook, not a setting central point. Something that GM's can ignore if they want. But since you can hardly ignore a world-ending threat, it warps the setting and takes a central place that doesn't belong to a mere plot-hook.
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The Realm isn't really a coundown to disaster like the deathlords and the Reclemation. Indeed, in the canon setting, the Realm is falling apart and if players fuck off to do something else for a while, it is more likely to weaken in the mean time, than to become an unignorable threat.
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
People who have expressed interest in my proposed 3E game so far, as well as their character concepts:
@Sucal : "social character"
@Hazard No caste/focus chosen yet, but sent in quite a bit of backstory.
@shepsquared "Night Caste"
@Anasurimbor
@Bursting Eagerness Soul : Sail-Master Eclipse
@TheLastOne : Brawl-based Twilight (?)
So three of those six people, plus potentially one of my friends on this forum, if I can interest any of them. Looking good so far. Looking forward to character sheets and backstories.
I hope I didn't leave anyone out. If I did, this post isn't mean to exclude anyone, applying is still possible etc.
@Sucal : "social character"
@Hazard No caste/focus chosen yet, but sent in quite a bit of backstory.
@shepsquared "Night Caste"
@Anasurimbor
@Bursting Eagerness Soul : Sail-Master Eclipse
@TheLastOne : Brawl-based Twilight (?)
So three of those six people, plus potentially one of my friends on this forum, if I can interest any of them. Looking good so far. Looking forward to character sheets and backstories.
I hope I didn't leave anyone out. If I did, this post isn't mean to exclude anyone, applying is still possible etc.
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To me that section seemed more like the Solars learned stuff by looking at the summon thing. Not that they somehow incorporated exactly what's going on their into artifacts.
The Realm in canon is likely to weaken during a civil war, and then become significantly stronger and more vigorous as it seeks to reastablish its dominance over areas that yried to break away while it was occupied. The period of weakness is meant to be temporary, basically so that players don't have to face a strong almost hegemon from the start.
Spend 5 days crossing a threshold?
Relativity is fun!
I've read in places (can't remember so don't quote me) that all waters run into Kimbery, so you can reach Malfeas by sailing through water and into Kimbery much like how you can walk into a desert and end up in Cecelyne. But it still takes 5 days of sailing.
To repeat my question, are you intending to run recruitment in this thread, or will it be moved to another thread?