The Creation Ruling Mandate, it's been interpreted at different times and by different groups, in universe and out, as applying to everything from humanity in general to Merela specifically as an individual. Was it the entire Exalted Host? Just the celestials? Just the solars? Iirc it's something that we never got to actually read or see, and just have how people in universe interpreted it to go off of.

Am I missing anything in any addition? What do we actually know for certain as an objective fact on the topic?
 
The Creation Ruling Mandate, it's been interpreted at different times and by different groups, in universe and out, as applying to everything from humanity in general to Merela specifically as an individual. Was it the entire Exalted Host? Just the celestials? Just the solars? Iirc it's something that we never got to actually read or see, and just have how people in universe interpreted it to go off of.

Am I missing anything in any addition? What do we actually know for certain as an objective fact on the topic?
This is major edition difference, but the lore is currently that the Mandate was given to the Exalted Host as a whole, with Solars having had a first among equals role in the First Age. This crucially means that, while individual gods are going to differ, shit like the Solar Purge or other infighting amongst the Exalted Host on Creation isn't like, a crime as far as Heaven as a whole is concerned, because the Mandate was given to the Exalted and it's up to them to figure out how to manage that shit amongst themselves.
 
So the Games We Play is a fanfic by Ryuugi with some issues. It is also a fanfic which has one of my favorite hype moments ever, when Juane early into his career has to steal an airship (for complicated reasons) and uses his ability to read stat screens and character sheets to bluff both Ironwood and the White Fang into thinking that he is some kind of scheming villain at the head of a world spanning intelligence ageceny.

Which is a very particular story beat, but the kind I love and would love to play out in Exalted. Any suggestions for Infernal Charms (including the homebrew sets by Relvid and ES) which are really good at information gathering? I remember SWLIHN has a mind reading charm and Elloge has some tech in this area offhand.
 
So the Games We Play is a fanfic by Ryuugi with some issues. It is also a fanfic which has one of my favorite hype moments ever, when Juane early into his career has to steal an airship (for complicated reasons) and uses his ability to read stat screens and character sheets to bluff both Ironwood and the White Fang into thinking that he is some kind of scheming villain at the head of a world spanning intelligence ageceny.

Which is a very particular story beat, but the kind I love and would love to play out in Exalted. Any suggestions for Infernal Charms (including the homebrew sets by Relvid and ES) which are really good at information gathering? I remember SWLIHN has a mind reading charm and Elloge has some tech in this area offhand.

Here's a link to Revlid's Elloge charmset, which has a charm tree starting with Means to Meaning that could suit that sort of thing. Treating everything like it's a fictional game also seems in Elloge's wheelhouse.

docs.google.com

Elloge, the Sphere of Speech (Revlid)

“Had I been born not knowing that one word follows another I might have been who knows, perhaps anything. As it is, finding sequences everywhere, I cannot bear the pressure of solitude. When I cannot see words curling like rings of smoke round me I am in darkness – I am nothing. I only come into ...
 
How popular is Exalted 3e compared to earlier versions? I feel as if when I first learned about it in the mid 2010's it was much more talked about in the SB/SV sphere and the RPG.net/other rpg forum sphere. Now as I actually get into buying the books and playing it, it seems like its much smaller than it used to be. I even got Exalted Essence ordered from my Local Game Store because they thought it was the 3e Core book, according to their computer system and no one who works there knows what it is. They don't even stock WW Vampire books anymore but a couple years ago in their old store they occasionally had one or two available. Essence is the only book they can even order online while everything is POD.

I worry that 3e is literally safer but lesser than previous editions and this is just the start of Exalted becoming the equivalent of Glorantha for Millennials as a long running cult legacy game with a very well thought-out world that very few people play while the owning company sells another far more popular product.
 
RPG forums tend to lean more toward people who used to be into the 2e version of the game and still like to argue about it online, but who have fallen off of the game. 3e has a lot more active community on like, discords and shit like that.

Exalted has fallen from its height of popularity along with all the former White Wolf properties, but it still makes quite a bit of money by the standards of TTRPGs that are not Dungeons & Dragons -- that is to say, relative pocket change, but enough to keep the enterprise afloat.
 
How popular is Exalted 3e compared to earlier versions? I feel as if when I first learned about it in the mid 2010's it was much more talked about in the SB/SV sphere and the RPG.net/other rpg forum sphere. Now as I actually get into buying the books and playing it, it seems like its much smaller than it used to be. I even got Exalted Essence ordered from my Local Game Store because they thought it was the 3e Core book, according to their computer system and no one who works there knows what it is. They don't even stock WW Vampire books anymore but a couple years ago in their old store they occasionally had one or two available. Essence is the only book they can even order online while everything is POD.

I worry that 3e is literally safer but lesser than previous editions and this is just the start of Exalted becoming the equivalent of Glorantha for Millennials as a long running cult legacy game with a very well thought-out world that very few people play while the owning company sells another far more popular product.
It's probably at least as popular, in absolute terms, but it's difficult to get hard numbers to be sure.

Two things have probably changed, though: first, the larger hobby is bigger. There's just, like... more people who are more plugged into more TTRPGs. 5% of 20 and 1% of 100 are the same absolute number, but one of them is a much larger relative slice.

Second, a lot of the earlier online discourse in 2e was kind of... second-hand. This is actually way more common than it feels like it should be. Do you know the memes about Paranoia, the TTRPG featuring Friend Computer hunting down the commie mutant traitors? I sure do. I've heard an awful lot of them. Do you know how many games of Paranoia I've played in? Zero. A lot of the old Exalted discourse when 2e was the current edition, at least as far as I saw, was people who would talk about Exalted, and hold it up as glorious or deep or cool or edgy... and talk confidently about things that were straightforwardly outright incorrect. I don't mean getting some details wrong or misreading a rule or Charm. I mean only the most tenuous connection to the material I was actually reading carefully because I ran and played a fair chunk of 2e Exalted.

This last one hasn't fully gone away. There's some people in the community who like to hold forth with imagined authority about exactly what the gameline is about and what it's like who... don't seem to have ever read the 2e corebook, the 3e corebook, or the Essence corebook. Just no firsthand knowledge at all. But modern Exalted is way easier to play, and is much more fun in actual play, so more people actually do play it as opposed to enjoying the franchise by talking about it second-hand.

Combine with a lot of talk moving to Discords and people talking about Pathfinder and Lancer and Fate and PbtA/FitD games and so on, and it can feel like it's not talked about as much, but, honestly? I think it's talked about at least as much. What we don't see as often is forums with people parroting second-hand takes that have been warped by the game of telephone that they went through.

By all means try to bring new people in to enjoy Exalted. I try, too. But the game line is doing fine unless there's something kept secret from the players, and that literally can't ever be disproven about anything.
 
It's probably at least as popular, in absolute terms, but it's difficult to get hard numbers to be sure.

Two things have probably changed, though: first, the larger hobby is bigger. There's just, like... more people who are more plugged into more TTRPGs. 5% of 20 and 1% of 100 are the same absolute number, but one of them is a much larger relative slice.

Second, a lot of the earlier online discourse in 2e was kind of... second-hand. This is actually way more common than it feels like it should be. Do you know the memes about Paranoia, the TTRPG featuring Friend Computer hunting down the commie mutant traitors? I sure do. I've heard an awful lot of them. Do you know how many games of Paranoia I've played in? Zero. A lot of the old Exalted discourse when 2e was the current edition, at least as far as I saw, was people who would talk about Exalted, and hold it up as glorious or deep or cool or edgy... and talk confidently about things that were straightforwardly outright incorrect. I don't mean getting some details wrong or misreading a rule or Charm. I mean only the most tenuous connection to the material I was actually reading carefully because I ran and played a fair chunk of 2e Exalted.

This last one hasn't fully gone away. There's some people in the community who like to hold forth with imagined authority about exactly what the gameline is about and what it's like who... don't seem to have ever read the 2e corebook, the 3e corebook, or the Essence corebook. Just no firsthand knowledge at all. But modern Exalted is way easier to play, and is much more fun in actual play, so more people actually do play it as opposed to enjoying the franchise by talking about it second-hand.

Combine with a lot of talk moving to Discords and people talking about Pathfinder and Lancer and Fate and PbtA/FitD games and so on, and it can feel like it's not talked about as much, but, honestly? I think it's talked about at least as much. What we don't see as often is forums with people parroting second-hand takes that have been warped by the game of telephone that they went through.

By all means try to bring new people in to enjoy Exalted. I try, too. But the game line is doing fine unless there's something kept secret from the players, and that literally can't ever be disproven about anything.
I wouldn't really have known about Exalted without people spouting memes so I think having a level of notoriety is very useful for games and makes it easier to pitch Exalted to players. I've never played Paranoia either but people at my LGS do know what it is and there has been an in person game people played on it last year(Granted our LGS might be special because the Creator of Kids on Bikes lives nearby and actually comes in to play).

Why isn't Exalted rising or maintaining its relative percentage popularity though, TTRPGs games rose up massively and CRPGs came back but based on appearance its not grown much. CoC/Lovecraft is massively bigger and is still on RL store shelves under Pathfinder and DND and also have dozens of boardgames while Exalted hasn't had one since 2008.
 
Why isn't Exalted rising or maintaining its relative percentage popularity though, TTRPGs games rose up massively and CRPGs came back but based on appearance its not grown much. CoC/Lovecraft is massively bigger and is still on RL store shelves under Pathfinder and DND and also have dozens of boardgames while Exalted hasn't had one since 2008.

I think part of this is likely related to the fact that OPP doesn't really do physical book sales on the same scale as old White Wolf
 
I mean CoC just isn't a peer property; it is much older, it has a very deep legacy, and it is connected to HP Lovecraft, who is far more famous than just about any original RPG IP that isn't D&D. It is one of the biggest RPG properties full stop. There are a lot of foreign countries where CoC outsold D&D before White Wolf was even founded.

How does Exalted compare to like, other games either side of 2001?

Across the Eight Directions, a pure setting book released pretty recently, several books deep into 3E, and without a kickstarter, is a Platinum bestseller on DTRPG. This is the same tier as the rereleased core rulebook for Blue Rose, which came out in 2005, or the later in line setting books for the most recent edition of Legend of the Five Rings, which started back in the mid nineties.

Physical FLGS is gonna just be inevitably idiosyncratic in selection, below the absolute biggest properties, and dependent on the interests of the people who pick their inventory, in addition to Onyx Path not really prioritizing physical distributors outside of kickstarted editions.
 
Yeah, honestly, most FLGS just care about DnD, Magic the Gathering, and adjacent properties, anything beyond that comes down to "Shit that fell off the back of a truck" and "The owner's personal favorites". Warhammer can come too if the store is big enough.
 
Are physical copies that important for sales and popularity? I ask because most top sales, I feel, are digital in nature, especially with the cost of physical being so high and the fact that most games went digital due to Covid.

I know at least Paradox tried to do a massive push for V5 for physical at some point, with attempts to have the game be outside of just gaming stores like Walmart or Target, as well as ignoring Onyx Path for other companies that have in-house print for their products though I am unsure of how much it helped really helped in pushing the fifth edition line for world of darkness.

I won't deny that plenty of people would love to purchase Physical copies and would not buy anything else but a Physical book, but I feel like that's in the minority unless there's some chart I am not looking at?
 
Are physical copies that important for sales and popularity? I ask because most top sales, I feel, are digital in nature, especially with the cost of physical being so high and the fact that most games went digital due to Covid.

I know at least Paradox tried to do a massive push for V5 for physical at some point, with attempts to have the game be outside of just gaming stores like Walmart or Target, as well as ignoring Onyx Path for other companies that have in-house print for their products though I am unsure of how much it helped really helped in pushing the fifth edition line for world of darkness.

I won't deny that plenty of people would love to purchase Physical copies and would not buy anything else but a Physical book, but I feel like that's in the minority unless there's some chart I am not looking at?

If you will pardon an anecdote, I got into Exalted because I saw the 2E Corebook in a non-FLGS bookstore and was interested enough to pick it up. I don't think that would work now because I browse physical bookstores far less often. Many other people I play with have never had physical copies of books, Exalted and other systems.

My purely personal guess is that physical books matter less, at least among the people I generally interact with.
 
... So, I was thinking on Samurai Jack. Specifically, Aku. And the fact that, while his powerset is VERY cool and very Exalted (shapeshifting, shadow magic, 'explode things because they annoy me' and the like), what I like best from the show is his relationship to Jack. He obsesses over capturing him, schemes to bring him down, mocks him for his good heart in every way he can at every chance he gets.

Do Infernals get a charm that lets you declare someone your nemesis?

Like, you declare an enemy that has beaten you in some way your greatest foe, and automatically gain a tie of enmity or contempt for them. When the foe in question is near enough to fight, you gain defense bonuses against any and all enemies that attack you other than him based on that intimacy (and they for their negative intimacies to you). Or you might be able to spy on them from a distance. Or gain bonuses when inflicting them with despair. Or being able to find people with intimacies to him so you can recruit allies and/or hostages. That kind of thing.

Like, I've said many a time I don't see the appeal of playing Infernals. But from what I understand they dig a lot into classic villain tropes (making someone marry you, giving a monologue on your plan, leaving someone in a death trap, etc) and this seems like a fun way to do so. Just declare yourself the main villain of someone else's story and get bonuses for it.
 
Exalted was once the go-to recommendation on RPGnet for anyone looking to emulate a Final Fantasy game or a Shonen battle anime. While it's still just as capable of capturing those themes, newer and more accessible game systems have since taken its place as the preferred options.

There's a lot of frankly wild 1st and 2nd edition content where it starts openly pulling from other sources without acknowledging any kind of crossover or reference, so a character like Aizen or Sephiroth might show up without warning.
 
A lot of prominent wyld mutant tribes haven't been revisited yet because they have cultures that tend to read like imperialist propaganda and were sometimes actively used by Exalted players of previous editions to explain why the Realm having satrapies was actually good and necessary.

I tend to use them as a source of mercenaries who exploit their unusual appearance and their weird culture for purposes of intimidation.
 
Last edited:
Exalted was once the go-to recommendation on RPGnet for anyone looking to emulate a Final Fantasy game or a Shonen battle anime. While it's still just as capable of capturing those themes, newer and more accessible game systems have since taken its place as the preferred options.

There's a lot of frankly wild 1st and 2nd edition content where it starts openly pulling from other sources without acknowledging any kind of crossover or reference, so a character like Aizen or Sephiroth might show up without warning.
*shrug* I brought it up because I thought i might get the appeal more if I went with an Aku expy. Seems like that might be fun.

Otherwise, though, just not for me for many reasons.

Every time I try to bring up things I like about the Infernals im told im wrong. I like the idea of the first age Solars at their worst returning under the Yozi's banner. I like the idea of playing as a villainous demigod encouraged by their master to appeal to supervillain tropes. I like the idea that to become an Infernal you are presented with the same test as a Solar - attempt the impossible - and fail. I like the idea of a powerset that works fine on its own but is so much *more* effective when you're *evil* about it. (i get that Exalted doesnt proscribe morality, just powersets, but evil as a force of power is a fun and classic idea)

Very little of that actually applies, from what I understand, and what did is no longer the case. I don't care for being selected from rebels and rabblerousers. Nor for being a demonic rock star. The Yozis aren't even trying to escape Hell anymore from what I understand, which... I get that 3e is cutting back a lot on the Thousand Dooms thing Exalted has going on but at least the Neverborn are still trying to make Oblivion happen.

And also I do not like demons so theres no way im going to enjoy being a prince in hell.

The phrase "Grand Theft Yeddim" otoh lives in my head rent-free despite having never read the book it comes from.
 
Do Infernals get a charm that lets you declare someone your nemesis?

Like, you declare an enemy that has beaten you in some way your greatest foe, and automatically gain a tie of enmity or contempt for them. When the foe in question is near enough to fight, you gain defense bonuses against any and all enemies that attack you other than him based on that intimacy (and they for their negative intimacies to you). Or you might be able to spy on them from a distance. Or gain bonuses when inflicting them with despair. Or being able to find people with intimacies to him so you can recruit allies and/or hostages. That kind of thing.

@EarthScorpion old Szoreny charmset had a few charms of that sort. (Envious Heart and it's upgrades).

ENVIOUS HEART

Cost: 0m; Mins: Essence 1; Type: Simple
Keywords: Accumulation, Combo-OK, Emotion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None

When you travel to Malfeas, do not gaze too long at the inverted Silver Forest lest you draw his invidious attention.

The warlock can only activate this charm upon observing some way that another character exceeds them. He gains an enchanted envious intimacy of his choice towards that character or the trait or relationship that he observed (such as their skill with the blade or the fact that they have many friends). The Infernal may have no more than (Wits) enchanted intimacies at once.

Any stunt which furthers such an Intimacy adds one to its rating as though it resonated with the Exalt's Motivation. He adds his (Essence) in automatic successes to observe, study, or Join Battle against the subject of his envy. This also applies to actions taken against traits and relationships within the context of the envy - for example, it would apply to rolls against the many friends of the envied character, as long as the Infernal intends to deprive their rival of the friendship or use them against him.

At the end of any scene when the Infernal has defeated or exceeded the target of their envy in a meaningful way, they remove one dose of heartsap from their system and gain one willpower as their silvery heart transmutes mercury to glory. Should they fulfil the Intimacy against meaningful opposition - for example, by killing the once-superior swordsman in a duel or alienating the gregarious socialite from all their friends - they remove all doses of heartsap from their system and gain points of willpower equal to the doses purged. Should this take them above their Permanent Willpower, excess points instead remove points of Limit.


(2e but adapting it to 3e should be relatively straightforward).
 
Last edited:
*shrug* I brought it up because I thought i might get the appeal more if I went with an Aku expy. Seems like that might be fun.

Otherwise, though, just not for me for many reasons.

Every time I try to bring up things I like about the Infernals im told im wrong. I like the idea of the first age Solars at their worst returning under the Yozi's banner. I like the idea of playing as a villainous demigod encouraged by their master to appeal to supervillain tropes. I like the idea that to become an Infernal you are presented with the same test as a Solar - attempt the impossible - and fail. I like the idea of a powerset that works fine on its own but is so much *more* effective when you're *evil* about it. (i get that Exalted doesnt proscribe morality, just powersets, but evil as a force of power is a fun and classic idea)

Very little of that actually applies, from what I understand, and what did is no longer the case. I don't care for being selected from rebels and rabblerousers. Nor for being a demonic rock star. The Yozis aren't even trying to escape Hell anymore from what I understand, which... I get that 3e is cutting back a lot on the Thousand Dooms thing Exalted has going on but at least the Neverborn are still trying to make Oblivion happen.

And also I do not like demons so theres no way im going to enjoy being a prince in hell.

The phrase "Grand Theft Yeddim" otoh lives in my head rent-free despite having never read the book it comes from.
I was responding more to the conversation upthread but not any one person in paticular.
You probably want Nemesis Self Imagined Anew that for the duration changed your character's Motivation to the opposite of the person they were targeting and gave them an intimacy of "spiteful hated" towards them. It had a potentially amusing interplay with Freedom Lets Go where you could hate someone with every fiber of your being fuck them over and then instantly forget that you did anything or that the person in question ever existed.
 
Back
Top