I also like god-blooded being conceived of in a way where it's easy to make a god-blooded Exalt who still has some unique powers in addition to their Exalt charms. I complain about Divine Heritage being too expensive, but this hasn't stopped me from taking it on at least two characters.
 
Early exalted belt over backwards to make sure that firearms as such didn't and couldn't exist, to an extent that I honestly find a little embarrassing now. I understand not wanting that to be a main feature, but I've watched too many historical wuxia fantasies where someone pulls out a historically-out-of-place gatling gun to think that'd be a problem.
To me it's less weird when I think on what like, the Nerd World was like in 1998-2000 and how "Gusns should just win" stuff kind of was the vein. Note that the Japanese/anime "Guns are justs words with a fancy look" mindset didn't take hold for I think a lot of folks until the mid-00s, which is pretty much well past Exalted having decided guns were cool, but not "guns are the end of sword romance" is wanted.
 
Yeah, the way I see it, there's no real mechanical difference between a firearm and a crossbow in 3rd edition and Essence's rules, so if you like the aesthetic--go for it!

They're just not specially privileged because they're firearms. Everything is viable, but the skill and infrastructure to make one as opposed to something simple like a firewand (Which only needs you a brass tube and a stock for the most part), is so much higher for so little value that they're just not produced on a large scale.
The logic I kind of go with is "Fighting game guns" of late. Where for a lot of characters, a gun or fire arm or flamethrower or whatever, is just a particular way to make a zoning attack or even just a fancy way to punch folks in the case of characters like Noel Vermillion or Elphelt Valentine in GG Strive.

(Happy Chaos fucks this analogy up some, but that he is sitll this complicated fucker in that game kind of shows that you need to do a lot to make guns feel ike the one-hit kill buttons and you even then don't need to inflate damage or anything, just make them Another Weapon.)
 
Since it's a medal given for teamwork, and meant to celebrate what you can achieve through teamwork, how about enhancing one's ability to sacrifice self for the Kinship and letting other wearers of the medallion to take on themselves the injuries suffered by one, regardless of the distance? That could have potential for interesting situations especially when it comes to an accomplished Sworn Kinship whose members have since drifted apart. Like, if one wearer of the medallion feels that one of the others is about to suffer a fatal blow, they might take that blow instead. If the other wearers choose to do the same, the damage would be shared and no one would be in immediate mortal dangers, but what if the others choose to not take that damage on themselves? Then the one who does so might end up dying in their Sworn Kin's stead, without any assurance of the beneficiary's situation being such that they might then survive instead of just suffering a new, equally lethal attack. And how would the Dynastic society view the other wearers of such a medallion surviving unscathed when one dies? Granted, that specific situation's not really something that'd come up in-game, or at least it'd be more likely to happen to NPCs than the PCs, but it could be thematically neat.

Definitely interesting. But it feels a bit too intense for "you accomplished something great together". That's the kind of magic I'd expect to see on a wedding ring.

I think most Storytellers would agree that XP isn't particularly relevant for Chejop Kejak, as it's primarily an abstraction for player characters and occasionally* worth tracking for NPCs who are supposed to operate on their general level.

*I would argue comparing xp totals to be a misleading measure of fairness and that ultimately the best reason to treat NPCs like this is because the ST enjoys it, it can relive some of the frustrations of a forever GM and some of us just feel better following the rules even when nobody else gives a shit.

If that works for Chejop, why not say the same for the Bull?

DB Medals/Awards: Have you considered things which aren't physical medals but some other kind of panoply accent like a helmet plume or a sash? Those might have some sort of social impact, like creating an intimacy at minor intensity related to the feat it is associated with either the specific event or as a general level of accomplishment. e.g. a scarlet horsehair crest, earned for leading a unit to victory against bad odds, might mimic some of Solar/Abyssal charms that make people think you are a merchant/corrupt/etc. and make people think you are a competent military commander. (most useful for DB without social skills I suppose)

No, I hadn't considered mixing up the physical shapes of the awards. It's a good idea, though.

I had a medal sketched out for secret achievements that can't be publicly recognized; perhaps it could take the form of a mask that renders the wearer magically interchangeable with everyone else who owns such a mask. America currently has 61 living Medal of Honor recipients; magic that makes it impossible to tell which of those 61 you are could be pretty handy. Especially since, in the Dynasty, those 61 are probably major figures from a dozen competing factions.

What usually ends up happening, from what I've seen, is that you come in with like, a take to the effect of "I think the 2e version of this thing is better than the 3e version", then when you get even mild pushback you act really performatively self deprecating and cringe away doing the textual equivalent of acting like someone has hit you. You even went through a phase on the Discord where if people disagreed with you in a discussion, you would go back and either delete every single individual message you made or edit them to say something like "ignore me, I'm sorry for posting".

I am willing to believe that this is born out of genuine social anxiety, but it is also like, pretty evident that some of the hostility you ascribe to the fanbase is like, significantly in your head? And your reaction to it is genuinely more disruptive and upsetting to people than anything you ever actually said. It also creates this pattern of behaviour where you'll like, keep making the same takes over and over, and not actually engage with the discussion past the point of it becoming obvious that you're pushing an unpopular opinion. Like, as an example from this post, I have seen you try to make variants on this "Exigents should be god-blooded" argument two or three times at this point, and like... Maybe if you were more willing to have that discussion instead of tossing a take into a conversation and then immediately dipping, you would realise that people disagree with that take because they think it's wrong, not because they haven't noticed you're correct about it.

It's okay if people disagree with you, and this is not the same as them being hostile. It's not very fair to others to treat them like they're attacking you.

Given that Exthalion immediately got a lecture about their perceived poor character after mentioning their opinions about Exalted and its fandom, I can see why they find the community hostile.

...I think part of the reason Exalted earned a reputation for toxicity is that we all know a bit too much about each other. We see someone, and we're immediately like "oh, that's the guy I had beef with in a forum thread eighteen months ago".
 
Definitely interesting. But it feels a bit too intense for "you accomplished something great together". That's the kind of magic I'd expect to see on a wedding ring.



If that works for Chejop, why not say the same for the Bull?



No, I hadn't considered mixing up the physical shapes of the awards. It's a good idea, though.

I had a medal sketched out for secret achievements that can't be publicly recognized; perhaps it could take the form of a mask that renders the wearer magically interchangeable with everyone else who owns such a mask. America currently has 61 living Medal of Honor recipients; magic that makes it impossible to tell which of those 61 you are could be pretty handy. Especially since, in the Dynasty, those 61 are probably major figures from a dozen competing factions.



Given that Exthalion immediately got a lecture about their perceived poor character after mentioning their opinions about Exalted and its fandom, I can see why they find the community hostile.

...I think part of the reason Exalted earned a reputation for toxicity is that we all know a bit too much about each other. We see someone, and we're immediately like "oh, that's the guy I had beef with in a forum thread eighteen months ago".
If you imply/state you regularly get attacked, "that wasn't an attack, what actually happened was X which is pretty normal for what was going on" is a valid response. That wasn't a lecture about poor character, it was an explanation about a think they'd been doing for a long time. Gaz didn't bring that up out of nowhere, it was a pretty normal response given the context.
 
If you've encountered it, the origin of the "mortals don't get to win" statement was Neph responding to a thread exploring the premise of America ending up in Creation the second of it's kind that I'm aware of and there were some very vocal people insisting that the US army would wipe the floor with the Exalted.

Edit: somewhat ninja'd.
I'm curious, was this like a versus debate where it's assumed that the conflict would take the form of a straight fight, or was it more generally "America is in Creation, what now?" Because I feel like in a world of supernatural diplomats, spies, and agents provocateurs, America is just a mass of pain points that its people and leaders wouldn't even be aware they should be defending to the degree they'd need to be until Creation's faction have well and truly sunk their claws in.
 
I mean, if it was Meruvia, from Exalted Modern, I would expect them to romp all over normal Creation because they know what they're dealing with and have their own supernatural options - as well as significant resources and the ability to mobilize them of a modern civilization. The current USA would probably not be quite as prepared to deal with the fact that the supernatural martial arts and the like are not the biggest threats.
 
Even aside from all that, I feel like the conflict between a combat monster Exalt and an American force would more closely resemble a cinematic combat stage from Metal Gear Rising than anything else, complete with parrying bullets, jumping on missiles midflight, and using tanks as improvised bludgeons.
 
There were some people trying to interact with the concept in an interesting way that helped me formulate my own ideas for Exalted in a modern setting in 2e's framework.

It was for example what made me realise that whatever problems Dragon-Blooded of that edition had they could quite trivially learn a charm that destroyed any non-magical projectile fired at them meaning that to have a serious attempt at taking out the aritocracy one would have to try and catch them off-guard before they could employ such a defence or make bullets out of magic materials like they were trying to kill a werewolf.
 
If you want my two cents then it really depends on if mortals can matter at all, if they can, then the USA drowns the Realm beneath an industrialized workforce, incomparable wealth, and more than a million soldiers that could shatter any medieval army into itty bitty pieces in an afternoon.

I'm really not sure how anyone could think the fight would go any other way, like, if mortal armies are worth anything, the realm isn't winning this.
 
Its all over for America when we get the first Solar Twitch streamer. Were making whales out of everyone 🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳 Gonna get the entire treasury as a super chat when playing fortnite.

Thanks I always strive to make the worst possible posts for VS arguments.
 
Assuming that this is surely whiteroom exercise...

Purely mortal armies won't amount to much in the face of massive sabotage, social blitzkrieg, and significant exalted opposition.

Factories and infosec can be annihilated by infiltrators, American society is ripe for exploitation and division by provocateurs, small circles of Exalted can easily circle behind enemy lines and wreak massive devastation.

An Iron Age army has no response to American military power, but American military power has less than no response to the Divine might of the Exalted.
 
If you want my two cents then it really depends on if mortals can matter at all, if they can, then the USA drowns the Realm beneath an industrialized workforce, incomparable wealth, and more than a million soldiers that could shatter any medieval army into itty bitty pieces in an afternoon.

I'm really not sure how anyone could think the fight would go any other way, like, if mortal armies are worth anything, the realm isn't winning this.
We can assume, I think, that mortals matter in Creation to some degree or there'd be no point in having them fielded in armies with Deebs as commanders. The question is whether the American mortals matter enough to make up for the fact that America would have no Exalts of its own in this conflict (at least at first; depends on how Exaltations identify humans).

For my own 2 cents: A while back I came across a group of posts online (so, ya know, grain of salt) from soldiers who fought against America talking about what it's like to face them in battle. Short answer: you can't fight America, they have ridiculous toys and overwhelming force to a degree that as I recall was compared to a storm. The Realm as a nation-state would get bodied. They'd do better than other nations on good ol' Earth, but they'd be reduced to insurgencies.

Its all over for America when we get the first Solar Twitch streamer. Were making whales out of everyone 🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳 Gonna get the entire treasury as a super chat when playing fortnite.

Thanks I always strive to make the worst possible posts for VS arguments.

It's not Creation vs America here, it's the Realm versus America.

What makes you think the Solar Twitch streamer is going to get that superchat to help the Realm?

Assuming that this is surely whiteroom exercise...

Purely mortal armies won't amount to much in the face of massive sabotage, social blitzkrieg, and significant exalted opposition.

Factories and infosec can be annihilated by infiltrators, American society is ripe for exploitation and division by provocateurs, small circles of Exalted can easily circle behind enemy lines and wreak massive devastation.

An Iron Age army has no response to American military power, but American military power has less than no response to the Divine might of the Exalted.
Pretty much.

The Realm as a nation state dies, but the Dragon-Blooded will doubtless be a thorn in America's side for years to come. We don't do well with insurgencies.

In fact, put my money on 'Realm gets annihilated, Dragon-blooded with birth citizenship gets elected president, dissolves the constitution and puts in a new monarchy'
 
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i contend that, in any realm-vs-america scenario, the real winner would be the silver pact, who would undoubtedly subvert most of the united states' it infrastructure through all the furries that work in it :V
 
Factories and infosec can be annihilated by infiltrators, American society is ripe for exploitation and division by provocateurs, small circles of Exalted can easily circle behind enemy lines and wreak massive devastation.

An Iron Age army has no response to American military power, but American military power has less than no response to the Divine might of the Exalted.
It's not like the USA doesn't have a mountain of ways to do that sort of thing right back, for example, do you know how expensive clothes were before the Industrial Revolution? An industrialized society with trade all over the world is going to be richer than the realm by a massive amount and the realm also has a whole lot of internal divisions to pull on.

Like, yeah, the USA is certainly manipulable, but their standard strategy of bribery and playing sides against each other assumes you've got stuff to offer them, and any sort of, for example, social media campaign, is going to be stepping into an entirely unfamiliar environment with very few of the tools we use today and a lot less understanding of how they work. Not to mention that most segments of America who hate each other will also hate the realm.

As for assassinations and stuff… come on, this is America, there's a camera in every phone and you need an ID to do almost anything, we've got a lot of tools mortals in exalted don't. I'm not saying they couldn't pull anything off, especially on their home terf, but it's hardly going to be a cakewalk.
 
It's not like the USA doesn't have a mountain of ways to do that sort of thing right back, for example, do you know how expensive clothes were before the Industrial Revolution? An industrialized society with trade all over the world is going to be richer than the realm by a massive amount and the realm also has a whole lot of internal divisions to pull on.

Like, yeah, the USA is certainly manipulable, but their standard strategy of bribery and playing sides against each other assumes you've got stuff to offer them, and any sort of, for example, social media campaign, is going to be stepping into an entirely unfamiliar environment with very few of the tools we use today and a lot less understanding of how they work. Not to mention that most segments of America who hate each other will also hate the realm.

As for assassinations and stuff… come on, this is America, there's a camera in every phone and you need an ID to do almost anything, we've got a lot of tools mortals in exalted don't. I'm not saying they couldn't pull anything off, especially on their home terf, but it's hardly going to be a cakewalk.
I'm on America's side here but I think you're overselling how hard it's going to be for deebs to get into American society. Remember that Exalted can learn how to do new things in their area of specialization in a matter of days. Weeks, if they're working in completely unfamiliar territory.

Like yeah, they're gonna have to adapt, but even if you treat Social Media as a separate skill that nobody's caste or favored in, you'll have Dragon Blooded overcoming even the vtuber trend in a matter of months. Deebs with good lore/socialize will find out about our current massive cultural strife in a matter of weeks, tops.

There's an argument to be made that America would be influencing them right back, of course, but we don't have Exalted of our own (at least not yet), so it's going to be slower.
 
I don't usually like these discussions, as they uncomfortably remind me of the discussions about firearms in 2E. But to add something, I don't think the realm would immediately go to war. They might recognize them as a threat that, even if defeated, would weaken them against worse enemies (like the Silver Pact), so they would try a more diplomatic approach, combined with perhaps one or two assassins.
 
I don't usually like these discussions, as they uncomfortably remind me of the discussions about firearms in 2E. But to add something, I don't think the realm would immediately go to war. They might recognize them as a threat that, even if defeated, would weaken them against worse enemies (like the Silver Pact), so they would try a more diplomatic approach, combined with perhaps one or two assassins.
Maybe. Depends on what info they learn about America at first contact. No exalts but massive resources might be worth the risk of pissing off. Lack of magical materials, otoh, might turn them off completely and decide it ain't worth the trouble.

A 'who would win' match tends to assume hostility.
 
It also assumes that the DBs can't just... steal the USA's superior weapons, especially a peacetime USA who needs to ramp up and call back troops. WWII Britain would probably be more dangerous in this respect!
 
It's also assuming America is just fine appearing in a different world one day.
Or that the physics of Creation vs Earth are relatively comparable. Or alternatively that the Realm is fine suddenly dropping into the Pacific Ocean.

There's a LOT of assumptions here. Versus debates are like that.
 
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