Aaaannnndd.... Bookmarked!
*blushes*

Would love some feedback on these if you have the time. Some are obviously better than others (I think the puppeteer spiders might be my best demon) but it would be nice to hear what others think. What demons your favorite. what you liked, what you didn't like, if you could picture them clearly, that sort of thing.
 
*blushes*

Would love some feedback on these if you have the time. Some are obviously better than others (I think the puppeteer spiders might be my best demon) but it would be nice to hear what others think. What demons your favorite. what you liked, what you didn't like, if you could picture them clearly, that sort of thing.
Well for one thing, expand that title. What if you ever want to make Demons that aren't part of the Heretic Sky? Plan ahead! Also, who is the Heretic Sky? If he's a fanon Yozi maybe lead with some info on him.

Baroak is solid, and reminds me a bit of Aladdin really, especially that scene where he rolls in with a procession that the genie somehow conjures from nowhere. (You've also got both him AND Urom listed as the 2nd Souls of the Heretic Sky.)

The Siakagudji are far more my speed, I like them a lot. One thing that hits me though is that you mention that they have clans, but don't talk about that any further. Might be good to get some info on these, like you did for the Puppeteer Spiders?

Urom I'm getting a familiar vibe from. I don't quite know what influences you've drawn on from other media, but I'm pretty sure that they are there. I'm also getting an almost Ligier-like vibe from him.

The Vodorike are also pretty neat, although I think you should make a point of them not being able to smelt orichalcum, since an aversion to the metal would be pretty thematic.

I think the Glass Preachers need a drawback with more oomph. Maybe tie this hypothetical extra drawback into the poisonous light that they shine with?

(You have the Siakagudji twice.)

I feel Pilango would be a better fit as a Second Circle, but that's just me. His appearance is pretty neat and grotesque, getting a rather gutteral-disgust response when I try to picture it. However, he seems too overpowered - or rather, too versatile. Overall I think of the three 3rd Circles here he is the weakest, especially his drawback.

(You've got those who walk behind as Third Circles.) Other than that they're rather solid. I think they should probably have more of a downside, perhaps they mime blasphemies when you're not looking but others are?

Okay, what the hell. Apparently Denok is a Green Sun Prince? What? I am very confused. Also you have these as 3rd Circles again. Anyway the Puppeteer Spiders are excellent and I love them very very much.
 
Well for one thing, expand that title. What if you ever want to make Demons that aren't part of the Heretic Sky? Plan ahead! Also, who is the Heretic Sky? If he's a fanon Yozi maybe lead with some info on him.

Baroak is solid, and reminds me a bit of Aladdin really, especially that scene where he rolls in with a procession that the genie somehow conjures from nowhere. (You've also got both him AND Urom listed as the 2nd Souls of the Heretic Sky.)

The Siakagudji are far more my speed, I like them a lot. One thing that hits me though is that you mention that they have clans, but don't talk about that any further. Might be good to get some info on these, like you did for the Puppeteer Spiders?

Urom I'm getting a familiar vibe from. I don't quite know what influences you've drawn on from other media, but I'm pretty sure that they are there. I'm also getting an almost Ligier-like vibe from him.

The Vodorike are also pretty neat, although I think you should make a point of them not being able to smelt orichalcum, since an aversion to the metal would be pretty thematic.

I think the Glass Preachers need a drawback with more oomph. Maybe tie this hypothetical extra drawback into the poisonous light that they shine with?

(You have the Siakagudji twice.)

I feel Pilango would be a better fit as a Second Circle, but that's just me. His appearance is pretty neat and grotesque, getting a rather gutteral-disgust response when I try to picture it. However, he seems too overpowered - or rather, too versatile. Overall I think of the three 3rd Circles here he is the weakest, especially his drawback.

(You've got those who walk behind as Third Circles.) Other than that they're rather solid. I think they should probably have more of a downside, perhaps they mime blasphemies when you're not looking but others are?

Okay, what the hell. Apparently Denok is a Green Sun Prince? What? I am very confused. Also you have these as 3rd Circles again. Anyway the Puppeteer Spiders are excellent and I love them very very much.
Lol yeah, like I said in the original post, haven't had time to give it a read through yet and make sure eveything is up to snuff.

So Denok is a theoretical GSP I've made and statted out for if I ever get to actually play exalted, he would go into the ES tiger empire charms pretty heavily and these are his various souls. Will probably do a different doc if I ever branch out. This will be cleared up with an introductory write up eventually.

Baroak was very much inspired by that scene from Alladin, was very tempted to give 53 purple peacocks. Charm wise he's primarily Malfean/Adjoran and he's twins with Urom. Them both being the second soul was deliberate:)

The Siakagudji you're right about, but I was having trouble getting it to fit in naturally. They do have a 2nd circle patron I've been calling the great grey grandmother, so I might put it in there.

Urom is malfean/cecelynian in essence and definitely draws a lot of inspiration from ligier. Charm wise he got the social aspects of malfean green fire and the worship stuff of ceclyne, so I made him a formless green light to represent that.
 
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Double posting cause it won't me edit and I accidentally posted early.

Urom in general pulls fron dystopian fiction, especially cyberpunk.

I agree about the vodirike.

You're right about the glass preachers. One thing I was thinking was giving them one health level so they shatter if hit with any real force. Like your poison idea as well.


Pillago is definitely the weakest written of the three third circles. He'll get a revision eventually. He's Oramus/SWLIHN essence wise.

Is the damage from sunlight thing not enough?
 
Is the damage from sunlight thing not enough?

Neither that nor the limit condition would really matter much as long as the summoner is not absolutely ignorant to every aspect of what he's summoned, and doesn't do the exact opposite of what you should be doing with this demon.

You've got a demon who wants to always be bound to a summoner, and a summoner that always wants to be bound to this demon. As long as you don't do anything to have a banishment spell cast at you, the only real drawback is that you look really pale, something that is a bit odd, but not to the point that it's actually likely to out or cause issues for an infernalist as long as he doesn't suddenly go from looking healthy and tanned to pale as a corpse overnight while showing that fact off to everyone around him.
 
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Neither that nor the limit condition would really matter much as long as the summoner is not absolutely ignorant to every aspect of what he's summoned, and doesn't do the exact opposite of what you should be doing with this demon.

You've got a demon who wants to always be bound to a summoner, and a summoner that always wants to be bound to this demon. As long as you don't do anything to have a banishment spell cast at you, the only real drawback is that you look really pale, something that is a bit odd, but not to the point that it's actually likely to out or cause issues for an infernalist as long as he doesn't suddenly go from looking healthy and tanned to pale as a corpse overnight while showing that fact off to everyone around him.
That's a good point. I'll add something to make it so the sorcerer can't always have it bound. Or maybe just make it happen regardless if whether its bound
 
That's a good point. I'll add something to make it so the sorcerer can't always have it bound. Or maybe just make it happen regardless if whether its bound

No, neither of those really works.

On the one side, taking damage in sunlight without some way to mitigate that means that no-one would ever use this demon without significantly more benefits to offset the cost of living like a vampire.

On the other, you should never put in a metaphysical clause that prevents you from fulfilling a demon's limit condition. Making the things they want socially unacceptable, so you have to go through a bit of a hassle to keep them happy is fine, saying that it needs something to not go crazy and rampage out of your control and then making it so you can't actually give them that isn't.
 
No, neither of those really works.

On the one side, taking damage in sunlight without some way to mitigate that means that no-one would ever use this demon without significantly more benefits to offset the cost of living like a vampire.

On the other, you should never put in a metaphysical clause that prevents you from fulfilling a demon's limit condition. Making the things they want socially unacceptable, so you have to go through a bit of a hassle to keep them happy is fine, saying that it needs something to not go crazy and rampage out of your control and then making it so you can't actually give them that isn't.
I actually meant something like a cost to the sorcerer so that being bound to long killed them slowly. Something like they couldn't eat
 
I actually meant something like a cost to the sorcerer so that being bound to long killed them slowly. Something like they couldn't eat

If the entire point of a demon is to be bound to someone as their shadow and keep them safe, adding in a condition where doing exactly what you should be with the demon instead kills you isn't good design.

Demons don't spring up from nothing to do weird things and cause havoc, they are designed from the ground up for a specific purpose, and if something goes wrong that makes them useless for that purpose, the demon lord who made them probably won't make any more of them. Demons can have quirks outside their limit condition (Blood Apes despise cats and will string up their guts in crude displays, hopping puppeteers sweat drugs and like to steal babies) but they never have an issue that makes their purpose or their limit condition self defeating.


As for quirks and issues for Those Who Walk Behind, one idea that springs to mind for me is the connection between shadows and reflections. Maybe having your shadow cut off and replaced means your reflection goes with it, and so you either don't have a reflection, or there's a reflected demon in the mirror that isn't as good at mimicking you as the real one is at mimicking your shadow, and so something always seems a bit off or out of place.
 
If the entire point of a demon is to be bound to someone as their shadow and keep them safe, adding in a condition where doing exactly what you should be with the demon instead kills you isn't good design.

Demons don't spring up from nothing to do weird things and cause havoc, they are designed from the ground up for a specific purpose, and if something goes wrong that makes them useless for that purpose, the demon lord who made them probably won't make any more of them. Demons can have quirks outside their limit condition (Blood Apes despise cats and will string up their guts in crude displays, hopping puppeteers sweat drugs and like to steal babies) but they never have an issue that makes their purpose or their limit condition self defeating.


As for quirks and issues for Those Who Walk Behind, one idea that springs to mind for me is the connection between shadows and reflections. Maybe having your shadow cut off and replaced means your reflection goes with it, and so you either don't have a reflection, or there's a reflected demon in the mirror that isn't as good at mimicking you as the real one is at mimicking your shadow, and so something always seems a bit off or out of place.
I like that.
 
As for quirks and issues for Those Who Walk Behind, one idea that springs to mind for me is the connection between shadows and reflections. Maybe having your shadow cut off and replaced means your reflection goes with it, and so you either don't have a reflection, or there's a reflected demon in the mirror that isn't as good at mimicking you as the real one is at mimicking your shadow, and so something always seems a bit off or out of place.
My first thought was "how does this demon interact with The Spy Who Walks In Darkness, a Terrestrial Sorcery spell that lets you turn your shadow into a phantasmal minion?" After all, one of the side effects of that spell is that until your shadow returns to you, you don't cast one.
 
If the entire point of a demon is to be bound to someone as their shadow and keep them safe, adding in a condition where doing exactly what you should be with the demon instead kills you isn't good design.

Demons don't spring up from nothing to do weird things and cause havoc, they are designed from the ground up for a specific purpose, and if something goes wrong that makes them useless for that purpose, the demon lord who made them probably won't make any more of them. Demons can have
My first thought was "how does this demon interact with The Spy Who Walks In Darkness, a Terrestrial Sorcery spell that lets you turn your shadow into a phantasmal minion?" After all, one of the side effects of that spell is that until your shadow returns to you, you don't cast one.
It counts as not having a shadow, but the demon is forcibly removed and gains one limit when the spell ends and your shadow comes back
 
Welcome back everybody to Session 39 of Sunlit Sands! Thanks as always to @Aleph for running, so let's get to it!

Session 39 Log

Last Session we closed with Tatters, the unconfirmed Abyssal revealing that her master has found her. We pick up right where we left off, and Inks tries to pull some more information from her in the opening scene.

I'm of two minds about this, because Tatter's reticence and general closed-book attitude is... gameplay. I feel as though Aleph is trying to make her character a Challenge. By the same token, I was feeling a smidge frustrated because I was having trouble getting actionable information out of her to Do Stuff.

It wasn't bad by any stretch- and not all characters need to be 'Welcome to Corneria' plot devices, but there's a certain slowness this kind of characterization enforces. Fortunately later on, Pipera was very fast.

So here's the important part(s). Tatters's lord is the Aleph/ES take on the stronger Dead of Creation, it's one of their homebrew elements that since I don't have a huge investment in either way, I'm game for exploring. I have... complex feelings about these kinds of things, which I'll summarize briefly:

"I am a Participant, not a passive audience." I've seen (and produced!) homebrew content that appeals to a niche as narrow as just myself, and the reality of any kind of 'personal adaptation' of a game or setting is that it can risk alienating people. Especially when they're either interested or comfortable in the 'objective' view of the setting. I've mentioned it before like with regards to the sun-worship in the Coxati region.

Now Aleph as ST has significant credit with me, and I hope I have with her, so we usually don't have any issues with the unicorns in our shared garden. I definitely don't have a problem with a wider spread of 'Deathly Texture' to potential antagonists, but I'm always a little gunshy about over-investment.

This is especially true in context of player/character goals and how they overlap or not with storyteller goals. Inks for example is a demonolgist and I expect demons to become an increasingly large part of Sunlit Sands as things go on. Since there's no competing 'Demon' characters, there's no reason why these Yidak-Lords can fill in the backdrop of 'Powerful Spirit Opposition/Potential Assets'.

But, hypothetically, if Aleph were to keep emphasizing Ghosts over and over, and denied me opportunities to explore/invoke Demons, (lack of screen time, lack of polish/investment, etc), I'd be more than a little upset! I haven't had this problem yet with Sunlit Sands and I don't expect to- but I've had experiences in general where an ST or an author in general has their pet element they hold above all others.

In my opinion, part of being a good ST is either being very open with the kind of game you want to play, establishing in as broad or fine strokes as you want the themes, expectations and elements you want to include. If for example you want to include Raksha as a constant presence instead of a one-off encounter, make it clear to your players that you're doing so.

Same if you want to do a Realm Civil War Game or a Scavenger Lands Sandbox or a Deathlord Big Bad- whatever you do, talk it out first.

The other angle, which I personally subscribe to more, is 'Death of the ST'. Discard your ego, focus your efforts on the players, their goals and drives, and making their experience shine beyond any plot or event you describe. If your big bad foe gets ganked? Shrug and roll with it- (and save the sheet so you can try it again later).

I'm not sure where Aleph falls between these extremes other than 'In the middle/as needed', and perhaps there's a third axis. This is still the first game Aleph has ever run, and I admit boldly that I am a prickly player at the best of times, so she's handled me with grace and decorum.

Anyway- so that tangent from Tatters is over with. The important thing here is that in practical terms, she's given Inks a new Foe to contend with- this baron Sin Eater. At the same time, at Aleph's prompting, she's reminded Inks that the Yidak of El Galabi is in some ways more powerful but less dangerous... and could in fact be taken out by this Baron and consumed for his power.

So that puts even more emphasis on taking down El Galabi, and in a very Deus Ex: HR bent, a soft timelimit (Don't dawdle at Sarif HQ...)

Now like I said, getting intel out of Tatters is something of a challenge because she's so closed-mouthed about it. I can either coax it out of her, or work other sources of intelligence, if I ever develop any.

Related to this intelligence, from other discussions with @EarthScorpion and Aleph, we've roughly codified how the Dead interact with Creation and Solars; short-verison is that sun hurts them, badly, and that Inks's anima counts as Sunlight. Secondly, ghosts are creatures of cruel ironies, so instead of relying on Day/Night and Shadowland for materialization, they can count as Material against appropriate actors/actions. A ghost slain by an invader (like the El-Galabi natives) can touch and be touched by invaders... There's more to it than that, and I can share the drafted houserules in a separate section later.

So Tatters implicitly wants this Baron to leave her alone and probably be killed-again, and judging by what Inks is hearing, she'd agree to do so. Note that I am as aplayer biased in Tatter's favor, because she's a 3-dot ally on my sheet and implicitly an asset, albeit not one I employ very often. Basically she's too Killy for Inks's goals at the moment.

Like, I'm speaking primarily as a Player in that she's hard to utilize- possibly too hard. Ideally I can start setting her up as a spy or exorcist, and assassin if need be- this sort of ties back into the whole 'Ajjim/Vahti tactical ignorance' thing; but that's less of a problem because Tatters was off-camera for 6 months.

Now, at the same time, utilizing a difficult asset is part of the 'fun' of a game- anyone who's seen the MtG card 'One With Nothing' can likely understand the impulse to go "... can I do anything with that?"

As a character, Inks is far more interested in nurturing and caring for people like Tatters, who at the moment simply looks like she is in constant anguish, both physical and emotional.

Tangential back to ghosts, sunlight and combat- Unlike Kerisgame and similar, where the assumption is that 'spirit-fighting kit' is an inherent benefit of Exaltation, Inks does not have Spirit-Cutting, Detecting-Glance or Ghost-Eating Technique. Fortunately, she doesn't need them yet, but I wanted to take a moment to talk about Aggravated Damage.

People tend to assume that Aggravated Damage is Best Damage- and it is really good, but it really has a few mechanical niches and hooks; Firstly- it's hard to heal. Agg damage is usually Magical and that means magical treatment is reqiured- if you want someone to Stay Hurt, you hit them with Agg.

Secondly- Agg ignores Natural soak- but this doesn't get as much play as I think it should, because most people who run Exalted Combats default to 'man vs man' instead of 'man vs beast' or 'man vs monster'. Creation is as a setting intended to be full of one-off beasts- not monsters like a DnD campaign, but still things you fight that don't wear metal plate. Buck Ogres, the goblin hordes of Raksha, zombies, etc.

So Agg soak shines in a campaign that understands armor being expensive, encumbering or any other number of meaningful modifiers that keep it from over saturating the campaign.

So yes, I would totally like Spirit-Cutting and Ghost-Eating Technique, but I don't need them right now- and Sunlight penalizes demons as well as ghosts, so even a Solar lacking Occult Charms still has options against their primary non-exalt supernatural foes.

======

Gonna separate these thoughts a bit by Scene... After a day's rest (and Inks enjoying her Baths~), we invite Rankar to visit Inks's place of power with her backing and assets on display (hehehehehe).

So having sent Pipera off with the mission of 'Audit Inks's holdings', we settle in for a visit wtih the Despot. Rankar is one of the most powerful mortals I have ever played alongside in a game of Exalted, and thanks to Inks's relative lack of skill compared to his, he still is actually significantly threatening in direct confrontations like this.

I have no doubt that Inks can eventually take over Gem, even with relatively soon (within Rankar's lifetime definitely). But doing so now would be risky.

Rankar is also a good study in how Aleph likes to run Principles, which she later reminded me of as the scene went on. And as always I am pleased that the sensual component of the roleplay was handled with grace and maturity- Inks is a sexy gal and I like being able to play that up.

Rankar, being Rankar, is a clever man and a Despot who has run a very politically unstable nation-state for years. He doesn't get where he gets by being incautious- but he does have his vices. To the point that the second Inks mentioned Cahzor, he started to home in on her. Now I don't consider mentioning Cahzor a mistake, or even an admission of guilt in and of itself- but I figured a half-truth would be better than a bold faced lie of 'I did not enter Moto's lands'.

Thinking about it- he led the conversation quite artfully- by first mentioning Deyha- and in practice he really did play Inks quite well; by making these half-question statements, he prompts for more information, and Inks is naturally a chatty person, eager to share her experiences and upsell successes.

But now that he caught Inks in the potential lie, I had to work around that. Inks is not a femme fatale in terms of her personality, which Aleph and I recently descried as 'Sexiness for agenda' and 'invoking vulnerability for advantage'. Inks is too confident, proud and brazen to be any of those things. Even so, I did play into Rankar's vices to bolster my chances of getting one over on him.

Some pretty good rolls followed, and thankfully I navigated that little challenge. Aleph was quite pleased that I was able to tell the technical truth "I went to Moto's lands as part of the route the wyld storm forced me through", and I was able to pull it off.

At this point during this scene, Aleph did take control from me- and while we've done it before, it did surprise me this time. I was easy-going about it, but if it had taken things too far, I would've mentioned something to the effect of 'let's try something else/ask me next time'. Today though it worked out fine, and I don't foresee any future issues either.

With this business concluded and his suspicious allayed, Rankar becomes much more free with information, and it becomes increasingly clear how far he's willing to go for Inks's presence in his life or favor. As this scene was going on, I was reminded of the somewhat dated (in writing sense) arrangement between the Perfect of Paragon and Scarlet Whisper, except y'know, not White Wolf Writing.

Mind that's what I think Rankar wants, not what Inks wants. If Rankar were to become a Better Man, to change his ways, she might be more open to him, but that's highly unlikely. As it stands, Inks finds it fun to flirt, and here it was useful to flirt.

Now Rankar was actually very useful here, which corroborated what Pipera later reveals. There's an endeavor to break Inks's economic foundation in Gem, backed by what looks like on the face of it is a Minor House- For those who don't know, Gem's economic model is this; A noble house owns a monopoly on a trade, service or similar, and anyone who wants to perform in that field must pay the license holder a fee. Otherwise they're fair game for mercenary suppression.

But, Gem has no taxes. Because Taxes are Evil.

So this House Najjar wants to buy out the 'Sewage and Tannery' license (Which apparently doesn't already exist). They've tried to raise the offer repeatedly, and Rankar stopped them each time, preferring Inks (and her body) over whatever social or economic gain they can give him.

The other ongonig challenge is Elmei Piercing Sun- and to restate, he is General Iroh without the trauma of losing a son in a year long siege. Warhawkish, jingoistic and so on. He's a useful ally, but not an easy one to get along with!

Since Inks brought up El Galabi, Rankar is much more serious about it, and demands to be kept in the loop- but apparently liked the idea enough to offer more backing than Inks was even thinking of asking for.

Having successfuly navigated the challenge that is Rankar VII, we move on!

=======

The last scene is the recap with Pipera- having asked her to give a full report of what's going on, I was given a wealth of information to react to.

A further elaboration of the House Najjar situation implies that one of the Great Houses is backing a client house in trying to push Inks out- and while I don't think they'll succeed as I move against them, I have enough backing in other regions that if I have to leave Gem, I won't have that much of a setback- and Rankar is still firmly in my corner.

We had to do some OOC discussion about the demon industries, and in this way a low key but understandable consequence of letting them run took root. Civil and not-so-civil protest, manpower issues at the orphanage (thankfully we solved the constant population growth problem). Basically Inks's revenue streams are threatened, but not wholly depleted.

In the meantime though, the 'cost' of keeping the demon factories open was in reputation and good-will. To the point that shutting them down was the best thing I could think of until revising my practices. Waay back before the Coxati Arc, one of Aleph's suggestions was to reformat the factories to use human overseers and labor when possible in addition to the demons- to avoid making mysterious 'black boxes' full of strange noises and smokes.

So while I lost two backgrounds (Influence 4 and Resources 3) from shutting down Hepatizon production and the neomah bordello, I'm sure that in the long run I can recoup- and bluntly, demon laber is effectively free.

But, lastly and most pleasantly, Pipera delivers the good news that Inks's reputation is on an upward swing with a great deal of momentum. Rankar did a clever thing here- he basically announced that Inks was going to re-negotiate with Coxati, and in the same breath mentioned a reduction in the water tax (a big deal in Gem). So people being what they are, likely conflated the two (as Rankar intended).

Having overall gotten everything sorted out, Inks takes a moment to reward Pipera for hard work- the version of Private Plaza we're using in this game is very powerful, able to shield against mundane senses as well as scrying- so Inks warded the Baths for Pipera's private use. Alas we did not see an on-camera reaction, but I earned 2 Pipera Points!

And that concludes Session 39- next week, we meet up with Bidaha and her daughter, maybe look at Hinna's lab, and chat with Piercing Sun. An updated Resources mechanic may be in the works as well.
 
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Well for one thing, expand that title. What if you ever want to make Demons that aren't part of the Heretic Sky? Plan ahead! Also, who is the Heretic Sky? If he's a fanon Yozi maybe lead with some info on him.

Baroak is solid, and reminds me a bit of Aladdin really, especially that scene where he rolls in with a procession that the genie somehow conjures from nowhere. (You've also got both him AND Urom listed as the 2nd Souls of the Heretic Sky.)

The Siakagudji are far more my speed, I like them a lot. One thing that hits me though is that you mention that they have clans, but don't talk about that any further. Might be good to get some info on these, like you did for the Puppeteer Spiders?

Urom I'm getting a familiar vibe from. I don't quite know what influences you've drawn on from other media, but I'm pretty sure that they are there. I'm also getting an almost Ligier-like vibe from him.

The Vodorike are also pretty neat, although I think you should make a point of them not being able to smelt orichalcum, since an aversion to the metal would be pretty thematic.

I think the Glass Preachers need a drawback with more oomph. Maybe tie this hypothetical extra drawback into the poisonous light that they shine with?

(You have the Siakagudji twice.)

I feel Pilango would be a better fit as a Second Circle, but that's just me. His appearance is pretty neat and grotesque, getting a rather gutteral-disgust response when I try to picture it. However, he seems too overpowered - or rather, too versatile. Overall I think of the three 3rd Circles here he is the weakest, especially his drawback.

(You've got those who walk behind as Third Circles.) Other than that they're rather solid. I think they should probably have more of a downside, perhaps they mime blasphemies when you're not looking but others are?

Okay, what the hell. Apparently Denok is a Green Sun Prince? What? I am very confused. Also you have these as 3rd Circles again. Anyway the Puppeteer Spiders are excellent and I love them very very much.
added a drawback to pilango, something I've been putting off. Mind checking it out and telling me what you think?

Also gave Those Who Walk Behind a better drawback
 
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