This was changed in errata. It now requires specialized magic, of which none was ever written. So it will take a custom charm or artifact to mote away the costs.
General Exalted Thread
This was changed in errata. It now requires specialized magic, of which none was ever written. So it will take a custom charm or artifact to mote away the costs.
Then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist and that's meaningless errata.
- Location
- Singapore
Ok, so I've been looking through the corebook....
Ok, let's say a solar is newly exalted. What does he have? Excellencies? How many charms?
And what's the appopriate essence level of a solar planning to fight a third circle demon?
Ok, let's say a solar is newly exalted. What does he have? Excellencies? How many charms?
And what's the appopriate essence level of a solar planning to fight a third circle demon?
That's kinda misreading the situation. They removed the ability, baring custom magic, because they felt the default should be that you have to do the ritual stuff for Thaumaturgy. The fact that you can have specialized magic that could reintroduce the ability is basically just acknowledging that rule 0 is a thing and that each game is different, not that they feel that should be a standard ability to reach for.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Use the corebook as reference and scale down to whatever you think is narratively interesting, and singlehandedly? Presumably at least 5.
- Location
- United States
Whatever is needed for your story, man. Someone out of chargen is presumed to have had some time to figure out what they can and can't do, and i believe that this is a deliberately fuzzy amount of time that ranges between a few months to a year.
As for what level of essence is appropiate for fighting a 3rd circle? It all depends on the other stats. an essence 1 character with dex 5 melee 5 and two melee charms is a different beast than someone with essence 1 and a whole suite of combat charms devoted to the purpose of combat and survival
- Location
- Singapore
5 charms? Fine then. I can work with that. I just need him to fight off the resident chaos spawn and then drag the macguffin girl out of there.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
No, as in "fight a Third Circle Demon" is the territory of an experienced Essence 5 Exalt. They aren't the sort of thing that should be rolled out early in the game as opponents.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Yeah. The first thoughts that come to mind on third circles are, they are the kind of threat that typically needs multiple exalted to defeat. My first thought for an exalt that could handle one singlehandedly is one with an essence rating of at least 5.
- Location
- Denmark
... Which edition? because that answer changes with different editions.
- Location
- Singapore
oh wait. you misunderstand.
My first question was cause I'm having the protag go up against a resident chaos spawn as his first foe. So I want to know what charms he has, so I know how to write the fight scene.
The actual, experienced, campione, is the final boss or big bad. The kind of guy I use to wrap up the story.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Ok. Doesn't change my suggestion though. Pick your edition of choice. Scale down the capabilities of a chargen Exalt to whatever you think is narratively interesting.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
The real horror is what happens when some of the more sympathetic/well-spoken deathlords come calling. What happens when they're begged, on hands and knees, to try and breathe life into the Neverborn?
Shit, what happens if Malfeas tries to see if Ruvelia can be resurrected, and Cecelyne petitions for the revival of the White Ram, and the demon hosts of Hell plead for the restoration of lost Adrian, so that the Silent Wind's scourge may be ended?
"Bringing back" Adrian would involve effectively killing Adorjan.
And whatever that is it that sure as hell wouldn't be "resurrection".
- Location
- Singapore
What do you guys think of this snippet?
The monster screeched as the light of the dawn burned out half of its eyes and made the other half water with black tears. It halted its attack on the girl, turning to attack this new, stronger enemy.
A spike-tipped tentacle lashed out at Aaron, and he, impossibly, parried it with the branch. The branch creaked, but did not break, and he charged forward, dipping underneath another tentacle as he slipped under the monsters guard and began to attack its eyes. With two swift strikes he blinded the creature on one side, and began to use the blindspot created as an opportunity to continuously strike the creature, while it flailed about desperately trying to fend off the enemy it could not see. His blows struck like rain, parting the flesh of the monster despite the fact that it should have been able to easily with stand bullets. A few tentacles and limbs came close to hitting him, but he parried them without turning his head.
In the end, a third of the monster's tentacles were left limp, its body bleeding profusely from a dozen large gashes, multicoloured liquid seeping from the wounds. It struggled to move this time, its body moving jerkily and slowly as it tried to turn around so it could see the person tormenting it and finally fight back in full.
Aaron would gladly oblige it. Damned monster. He'll kill it, and leave its body scattered across the clearing. He will not lose to it. He felt it. The power thrummed through his body like electricity, making him feel invincible. He'll destroy this beast, before it hurt anyone else-........
OH NO.
Turning his head, he spied the girl who had fallen earlier. The pool of crimson beneath her had only expanded, and she wasn't moving.
OH NO.
Stupid, stupid, stupid! He had gotten too caught up in the moment. While he had been having fun, the girl was dying. No more. He gritted his teeth and pushed down his frustration. No more will suffer. He stuck the branch deep into the writhing mass, eliciting another scream. And then concentrating, he punched the monster, sending it flying off into the distance, smashing through the trees surrounding the clearing.
The monster was gone. But the danger was not. Aaron picked up the girl, holding her tight in his hands in a princess carry. The wound within her was deep, and he had no medicines and no bandages with him. Slamming his foot against the ground, he ran out of the forest, the bushes and trees blurring around him as he sought to put enough distance between him and the monster. Reaching the road, he pulled out his water bottle, washed the wound, and ripped off his shirt in an attempt to bind the wounds.
Snarling to himself, he saw that the wound itself was rather deep, and caked in gore and filth. It would get infected, and septic, if he did nothing. He poured water onto a strip of cloth, and patted it clean. Looking at her chest, he saw movement. Good. Still breathing. He poured the water, angling it so that most of it would splash out of the wound, washing away most of the filthy liquid. And while the water was still remaining in the wound, he bound it tight with his shirt.
The bleeding had stopped.
Now was the time to get to a hospital. It would take him several hours to get to the closest. The girl had less than 45 minutes. Unacceptable. The child shall not die. Not as long as he drew breathe.
Holding up her legs in a princess carry to make sure blood flowed to her heart and brain, the Chosen of the Unconquered Sun moved.
It was fortunate that the roads at this moment was empty, for if any driver had been in on it, they would have been startled and forced off the trail by the comet of gold running down the road at speeds more suited for a car. And if they had been able to look into the brilliance, they would have seen a young girl, cradled by a man with the sun upon his forehead.
The monster screeched as the light of the dawn burned out half of its eyes and made the other half water with black tears. It halted its attack on the girl, turning to attack this new, stronger enemy.
A spike-tipped tentacle lashed out at Aaron, and he, impossibly, parried it with the branch. The branch creaked, but did not break, and he charged forward, dipping underneath another tentacle as he slipped under the monsters guard and began to attack its eyes. With two swift strikes he blinded the creature on one side, and began to use the blindspot created as an opportunity to continuously strike the creature, while it flailed about desperately trying to fend off the enemy it could not see. His blows struck like rain, parting the flesh of the monster despite the fact that it should have been able to easily with stand bullets. A few tentacles and limbs came close to hitting him, but he parried them without turning his head.
In the end, a third of the monster's tentacles were left limp, its body bleeding profusely from a dozen large gashes, multicoloured liquid seeping from the wounds. It struggled to move this time, its body moving jerkily and slowly as it tried to turn around so it could see the person tormenting it and finally fight back in full.
Aaron would gladly oblige it. Damned monster. He'll kill it, and leave its body scattered across the clearing. He will not lose to it. He felt it. The power thrummed through his body like electricity, making him feel invincible. He'll destroy this beast, before it hurt anyone else-........
OH NO.
Turning his head, he spied the girl who had fallen earlier. The pool of crimson beneath her had only expanded, and she wasn't moving.
OH NO.
Stupid, stupid, stupid! He had gotten too caught up in the moment. While he had been having fun, the girl was dying. No more. He gritted his teeth and pushed down his frustration. No more will suffer. He stuck the branch deep into the writhing mass, eliciting another scream. And then concentrating, he punched the monster, sending it flying off into the distance, smashing through the trees surrounding the clearing.
The monster was gone. But the danger was not. Aaron picked up the girl, holding her tight in his hands in a princess carry. The wound within her was deep, and he had no medicines and no bandages with him. Slamming his foot against the ground, he ran out of the forest, the bushes and trees blurring around him as he sought to put enough distance between him and the monster. Reaching the road, he pulled out his water bottle, washed the wound, and ripped off his shirt in an attempt to bind the wounds.
Snarling to himself, he saw that the wound itself was rather deep, and caked in gore and filth. It would get infected, and septic, if he did nothing. He poured water onto a strip of cloth, and patted it clean. Looking at her chest, he saw movement. Good. Still breathing. He poured the water, angling it so that most of it would splash out of the wound, washing away most of the filthy liquid. And while the water was still remaining in the wound, he bound it tight with his shirt.
The bleeding had stopped.
Now was the time to get to a hospital. It would take him several hours to get to the closest. The girl had less than 45 minutes. Unacceptable. The child shall not die. Not as long as he drew breathe.
Holding up her legs in a princess carry to make sure blood flowed to her heart and brain, the Chosen of the Unconquered Sun moved.
It was fortunate that the roads at this moment was empty, for if any driver had been in on it, they would have been startled and forced off the trail by the comet of gold running down the road at speeds more suited for a car. And if they had been able to look into the brilliance, they would have seen a young girl, cradled by a man with the sun upon his forehead.
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
And even then they'll have their work cut out if it's a combat focused one, like That Which Wears Down Mountains
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Well...
Going by 2E, the moderately early-ish fact of life is: Countermagic is overpowered.
1. Ease of gain. An Exalt, especially a Solar, can gain Emerald Countermagic at Occult 3 (general professional) Essence 3 (2 charms worth of EXP, no wait time). Comparatively, a mortal mage would get access to Sorcery only at Occult 5 (omnidisciplinarian talent), and gain Essence 3 at much, much greater effort and time spent. For comparison, a thaumaturge can learn by rote a specific Thaumaturgic Procedure of Master Degree, at Occult 3, and learn the Master Degree, at Occult 5. The difference between a "monkey see - monkey do" approach and "can teach and design entirely new things within this specialty" degree of skill and understanding. Except Solars get it easy.
2. Extreme usefulness. Emerald Countermagic immediately nullifies any kind of thaumaturgic working, no matter how well-designed and complex. Wards, curses, blessings, good luck charms - it stops everything, immediately. It is also enough to negate, though with mild after-effects, any kind of Sorcery a mortal might use. The one thing it can't negate is Necromancy, though.
3. Greater Potential. And Solars and other Celestial Exalted also gain access to Sapphire Countermagic - this one negates everything a mortal might make. No exceptions. And it's still easier to gain than a Master Degree of Thaumaturgic Art.
Therefore, the first option an Exalt in a crossover with plentiful magic should gain, is countermagic - for functional lolnope of just about any freeform magic aimed at them. It has limited utility against artifacts (it may shut the more common ones made by magic - charms and wards - but won't do much of anything against things made from inherently magical materials like Jade, Moonsilver, Orichalcum, Soulsteel and Starmetal). And it does jack shit against the more robust methods of leyline use (aka creation of manses, buildings that tap into leylines as a matter of course - and use of hearthstones, that allow one to benefit from those tapped leylines at a distance).
- Location
- Singapore
This would be far more useful if it wasn't for the fact that campioneverse magic is frustratingly vague.
They have their own version of infallible messenger and uses magic that lets them store things in elsewhere.
They definitely have barrier spells, and healing magic and potions. They have some manner of mass destruction. Spellbooks for beginners are a thing.
But..... just how large is the scale? I mean, emerald countermagic smashes mortals. Sapphire for divine ancestors and adamant for gods.
Mages can use leylines. But how? How powerful are the songs of golgatha, the one spell that hurts gods?
Then there's the problem of how magic resistance should factor to a solar exalted. As an exalted, should he be resistant?
They have their own version of infallible messenger and uses magic that lets them store things in elsewhere.
They definitely have barrier spells, and healing magic and potions. They have some manner of mass destruction. Spellbooks for beginners are a thing.
But..... just how large is the scale? I mean, emerald countermagic smashes mortals. Sapphire for divine ancestors and adamant for gods.
Mages can use leylines. But how? How powerful are the songs of golgatha, the one spell that hurts gods?
Then there's the problem of how magic resistance should factor to a solar exalted. As an exalted, should he be resistant?
There are rules for this:
2e: page 81 of core, at the bottom of the Grim and Gritty: Playing Humans sidebar.
3e: page 125 at the end of the Everyday Heroes, Playing Mortals sidebar.
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- Location
- Singapore
Huh. 10 charms.
Are there any.... alternative dawns? I, like don't need war and thrown.
Wait. The thrown charms all focus on stealth kills. But why give to dawns and not nights?
Salty
Shadow Cabal Assumptor Supreme
- Location
- Sun, Moon, Talia
- Pronouns
- I/Me
Rule 3 Violation: There's no need for this.
Do we look like the 2e devs to you?
When are you going to get it through your leaden skull that we do not exist to answer every inane thought that passes through the vast airless space between your ears?
You have 5 caste abilities and then 5 non-caste favored abilities, so there's some choice, and it isn't necessary to be good at all of your caste abilities. That said, the castes having unbalanced abilities is well known, and dawns had one of the biggest issues (too much overlap and issues fulfilling concepts with limited choices). There's some thematic sense for all of the direct combat abilities and War to be grouped into one caste, but it does cause mechanical issues. Third edition took one route to solve this: it allowed you to chose your caste abilities from a small list, adding a bit more choice to the process. The Dawn's list is Archery, Awareness, Brawl/MA, Dodge, Melee, Resistance, Thrown, War (choose 5). The other big route was just combining abilities in general.
But this is something that's mainly for the game. For a story you really don't need to keep so close to the mechanics.
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