Yeah, the way I look at it the artifact has 3 powers as part of its main function: it shifts the timing, it changes the cost, and it allows access to specific functions of a higher circle of sorcery. I consider the cost change the primary purpose of the artifact, with the access to higher circles being a secondary function and the timing shift a pretty minor bonus. I included the timing shift mostly because @Accelerator inspired the artifact, so I'm fine with cutting that out. I wouldn't be thrilled to cut out the access to higher circles, because my personal favorite thing about the artifact is that it can go off as long as anyone dies on it at the right time and that requires that it not be locked to appropriate sorcerers, but I'm willing to if a strong argument is made that it creates an imbalance in the setting (though I'd probably drop the rating by at least one dot for that variant).

I suppose a critical question, now that i've given it some thought is ' can this be made more than once'?

That's partially the main issue with a lot of 2e artifacts, in that unless you say so directly, (and sometimes that doesn't stick), what was made Once can be made Again. Even if it's prohibitively costly, being able to make another one, then another, and so... Related to that question is 'are there any direct or indirect setting implications'; Like, this metasorcerous effect is Possible in your table-space, does that mean another is viable, etc.

I mean, I'm not raising these points frivolously, that's just the challenge of writing towards an internally consistent setting or appending to one. What setting problems or events are solved by the potential access of this artifact or others like it?

Now, I admit I dislike over-extending logical conclusions. Like, just because you CAN summon Ligier with your artifact doesn't mean he DOES get summoned at any critical, objective point that completely changes the setting timeline. It's like... asking if something is Usurpation-OK or Primordial War-OK is fun... but if you take it too far it gets in the way of actually having fun?
 
Cost discounts for demon summoning are not acceptable when one can spend motes to make it easier to bind demons.

It makes summoning high power demons too risk-free when it lets you brute-force down their resistance pool more easily and without the risk of "okay, shit, if I fuck this up I don't have enough willpower to reliably banish them or motes to fight them".
 
Cost discounts for demon summoning are not acceptable when one can spend motes to make it easier to bind demons.

It makes summoning high power demons too risk-free when it lets you brute-force down their resistance pool more easily and without the risk of "okay, shit, if I fuck this up I don't have enough willpower to reliably banish them or motes to fight them".

That is also a fair point and one I keep forgetting.,
 
Cost discounts for demon summoning are not acceptable when one can spend motes to make it easier to bind demons.

It makes summoning high power demons too risk-free when it lets you brute-force down their resistance pool more easily and without the risk of "okay, shit, if I fuck this up I don't have enough willpower to reliably banish them or motes to fight them".

Would there be any issues in changing the timing requirements?

Not changing the effective cool-downs for summoning, but de-synchronising then from standard creation timing?
 
Would there be any issues in changing the timing requirements?

Not changing the effective cool-downs for summoning, but de-synchronising then from standard creation timing?

Well, let's see. The price Infernals pay for being able to summon 3CDs at the new moon rather than just at Calibration is being categorically unable to bind them and literally having no way save banishment to stop their summoned 3CD from fucking off and doing their own thing once the scene ends.

Is that a price you want to pay?

And no, there are strong thematic reasons in-setting for why demon summoning happens at certain times - and by hard-locking them to those times, you provide counterplay against already strong summoning (like knowing that if the Adamant Circle Sorcerer wants to summon a 3CD, they have to do it in Calibration so there's a point when they're vulnerable to being murder-ganked or at the very least having their ritual interrupted). If you want to be a sorcerer, deal with the fact that you're going to miss parties because you're summoning from dusk until midnight.

Or, you know, don't devote your life to sorcery, have normal social interactions and get to go to parties, and have the other sorcerers make fun of you for being insufficiently committed.
 
I wouldn't be thrilled to cut out the access to higher circles, because my personal favorite thing about the artifact is that it can go off as long as anyone dies on it at the right time and that requires that it not be locked to appropriate sorcerers, but I'm willing to if a strong argument is made that it creates an imbalance in the setting (though I'd probably drop the rating by at least one dot for that variant)
While I like you're reasoning for it being able to go off for those not strong enough to summon the Demon themselves, that they can set it off by accident, it's still incredibly overpowered to allow access to higher circles at all. What I would do is figure out the exact mechanics for what happens when using the higher rated ones to summon multiple demons of a lower rating, and make that the default option when triggering them (I'd suggest Magnitude 4 for the rating 4 one, and Magnitude 10 for the rating 5). Then, when limiting it, make it so it can't do anything the user can't potentially learn to do on their own. Anyone could become an Emerald Sorcerer and cast DotFC. But if you're not an Exalt, it won't let you bind them. Dragonblooded can bind first circles, but only one at a time, so when they trigger a second or third circle altar to summon a group or army of first circles, they then have to take an action to bind each one they call up, and the ones they haven't bound yet aren't innately restricted by the summoning. Lunars and Sidereals can use it to summon Second Circles faster and cheaper (I don't really agree that lowering the mote cost and thus having more to spend on making the binding easier is broken), but they can also use it's power to change 2nd Circle Binding to target a small group of first circles at once. If they try to use a third circle one, though, you can either have them have to bind the demons one at a time, or have to only target a number of them they could with 2nd circle binding with each action.

I am somewhat sick, so hopefully this was coherent enough to understand. I don't actually know.
 
While I like you're reasoning for it being able to go off for those not strong enough to summon the Demon themselves, that they can set it off by accident, it's still incredibly overpowered to allow access to higher circles at all.
Well... I agree, it's powerful. The idea I had in mind when designing this was actually a circle rushing to stop a mortal from summoning a 2CD or 3CD and trying to bind it to fight the circle. A mechanical way to create a mass-sacrifice ritual to summon a cult's patron. That kind of thing.
There's also the option for the PCs to use it, either for conscientious sorcerers as a binding aid or for characters with less morals in general.

What I would do is figure out the exact mechanics for what happens when using the higher rated ones to summon multiple demons of a lower rating, and make that the default option when triggering them (I'd suggest Magnitude 4 for the rating 4 one, and Magnitude 10 for the rating 5). Then, when limiting it, make it so it can't do anything the user can't potentially learn to do on their own. Anyone could become an Emerald Sorcerer and cast DotFC. But if you're not an Exalt, it won't let you bind them. Dragonblooded can bind first circles, but only one at a time, so when they trigger a second or third circle altar to summon a group or army of first circles, they then have to take an action to bind each one they call up, and the ones they haven't bound yet aren't innately restricted by the summoning.
This is roughly similar to what I was thinking for mass-summonings. However, the decision to restrict each altar to a single type of 1CD or a specific 2CD or 3CD was very much intentional.
I'd rather prevent the user from binding any demon they can't summon on their own (at which point this becomes balanced against thaumaturgy in that regard).

I'm also considering changing the conversion from mortals to motes to something like 20m per Magnitude of sacrifices.
 
Cost discounts for demon summoning are not acceptable when one can spend motes to make it easier to bind demons.

It makes summoning high power demons too risk-free when it lets you brute-force down their resistance pool more easily and without the risk of "okay, shit, if I fuck this up I don't have enough willpower to reliably banish them or motes to fight them".
This is probably the sleep-dep talking, but I suppose that - in theory - you could mathhammer it out so that using the Artifact imposes a penalty/mote surcharge on the binding roll that cancels out the discount.
 
This is probably the sleep-dep talking, but I suppose that - in theory - you could mathhammer it out so that using the Artifact imposes a penalty/mote surcharge on the binding roll that cancels out the discount.

Yes, but why discount it then? Basically the only reason you want a cheaper summoning is so you can spend more to hammer down the demon's pool - since your spell is ending at midnight and you're probably going to be taking a nap next.
 
Spell-Capturing Cord's start at Artifact ●●● and are a one-use artifact that can cast any spell. An artifact that can only summon demons is honestly not that restrictive, comparatively; Summon Demon is the most flexible and versatile power offered by sorcery. So, it would depend on what sort of restrictions you add, but I wouldn't go below Artifact ●●●. Ultimately, it depends what you want to do with such an artifact. "Summon demons" is a means, not a goal.
As has already been quoted to you, a one-time Artifact capable of this effect costs at least 3 dots.

I would seriously advise not attempting to make an Artifact that repeatably shortens or outright abrogates summoning times without some severe limitations and/or drawbacks.
Looking over Sorcery-Capturing Cord's text it doesn't seem to be a one-time artifact? The artifact is the cord itself, the sorcerer just ties the cord into a knot to capture the spell and then unties the cord when they want to release it. Or did you mean one-time in the sense that you'd have to create a new knot each time?
 
Looking over Sorcery-Capturing Cord's text it doesn't seem to be a one-time artifact? The artifact is the cord itself, the sorcerer just ties the cord into a knot to capture the spell and then unties the cord when they want to release it. Or did you mean one-time in the sense that you'd have to create a new knot each time?
One use in the sense that if you want to use a given spell you have to capture it. Which limits it usefulness.
 
A couple of ideas inspired by the sidebar on First Age wondrous infrastructure in Arms:

The Coiled Forge

The Cinder Isles are known for their volcanoes, and the Exalted of the First Age did not hesitate to find uses for them. The Coiled Forge was carved out of one that had gone dormant, into the shape of a serpentine dragon coiled around itself, its head raised over its body and its maw wide open. Great shards of obsidian were mined and placed along it as scales, four massive spikes of red jade made its fangs, and when the geomancy was complete the volcano was dormant no more. Ferrous lava continuously dribbled from its mouth, tracing a path down the curve of its coiled body. As it reached the plain, men and magma-beasts toiled at a great ironworks that both separated the iron ore from the lava and then used the remaining heat to smelt it. Further down the plain, it would be beaten into blackened sheets, then rolled on cylinders of cooled igneous stone to the ocean. Here, finally, they would be lapped and riveted into warships as deadly as they were ugly. Spheres of pumice, with their centers bound to never quite forget the heat of their origin, would be loaded into the holds of these ships and launched from deck-catapults. It was a fleet of these worships that shattered the shining towers of Chiaroscuro during the Usurpation.

Now, the forge lies buried under its own cooled lava-stone, the geomancy mercifully disrupted and the volcano dormant once more. It could be excavated and repaired, but if the volcano became active before everything were cleared, the entire mountain could explode.

The Great Current

In the Age of Sorrows the Great Current is a rapid, unceasing current cycling around the Blessed Isle. Maintained by the storm and ocean spirits according to the Ten Thousand Oaths, it is readily visible to any sailor by the lighter-hued color of its water. It is an integral part of the Realm's infrastructure, but it is a poor shadow of its lost namesake.

In the First Age, ships were hardly necessary for carrying most goods. If you wanted to transport bales of Eastern spider-silk from Deheleshen to Randan, you simply packed them into watertight barrels, leaving enough air in so that they could float. You then hired a scribe to prepare a document describing the contents of the barrels, with apologies, praises, prayers, tolls, bribes etc. to the appropriate spirits, and - dumped the barrels in the ocean. Within a few weeks or months your goods would arrive at their destination, none the worse for wear.

Because of this convenience, much of the ancient knowledge of sailors was effectively lost, and had to be rediscovered anew in these lesser, fallen ages.

Broken scraps of this system still exist, and stories of fishermen's daughters finding love letters written to one of their ancestors fifty generations past are, on occasion, true.
 
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What's the difference between artifact 1 or 2?

If, say, i had a suppressor that couls fit on a gun, that silenced all gunshot sound amd muzzle flash.

What is the rating?
 
What's the difference between artifact 1 or 2?

If, say, i had a suppressor that couls fit on a gun, that silenced all gunshot sound amd muzzle flash.

What is the rating?
The difference between Artifact 1 and 2 is the amount of XP (BP) they cost to purchase, and implicitly their rarity and level of power.
 
What's the difference between artifact 1 or 2?

If, say, i had a suppressor that couls fit on a gun, that silenced all gunshot sound amd muzzle flash.

What is the rating?

Balance them against Solar Charms. If you want cool ideas for Artifact guns, borrow cool designs for unique or named guns out of sci-fi* or videogames. The difference between a modern gun and something like that is more or less the level of difference between a normal sword an a daiklave.

It could just be a thing that exists, y'know? A cool black ops gadget that doesn't have to be an actual Artifact.

*If you're feeling completely uninspired, look up some WH40K artificer gear and that should get you started.
 
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Balance them against Solar Charms. If you want cool ideas for Artifact guns, copy things out of sci-fi.

It could just be a thing that exists, y'know? A cool black ops gadget that doesn't have to be an actual Artifact.
Actually, no. I'm quite sure that movie style silencers do not work.

Which is why I'm confused.

You see, is this artifact 1 or 2? 1, cause its basically just an artifact that is a better silencer. Or 2, cause its an artifact that can let you release a full clip of ammo into a person and not be worried about stuff like stealth?

Combine it with a ring that grants invisilbility, an artifact that destroys light sources and night-vision goggles, you got one hell of an assasin....
 
Actually, no. I'm quite sure that movie style silencers do not work.

I'm well aware. I'm also aware engineers aren't omnicompetent supergeniuses like Q. Since you replied before my edit, I'll repeat my suggestion for cool guns here.

*If you're feeling completely uninspired, look up some WH40K artificer gear and that should get you started.

Or just borrow from the Technocracy's arsenal of toys and Wonders. But something that only functions as a really good silencer doesn't really seem Artifact space to me, though I welcome corrections on this.
 
I'm well aware. I'm also aware engineers aren't omnicompetent supergeniuses like Q. Since you replied before my edit, I'll repeat my suggestion for cool guns here.



Or just borrow from the Technocracy's arsenal of toys and Wonders. But something that only functions as a really good silencer doesn't really seem Artifact space to me, though I welcome corrections on this.
Oh my.

Then what about a really good silencer that has been boosted by thaumaturgy?

Also, if I wished to find out about the technocracy's arsenal, what should I buy?
 
Ok, looking at the rules of artifacts…

Ok, let's say a sorcerer summons several Heranhal into a pre-prepared master's workshop with available exotic components and neomah playmates.

Master's workshop: no penalty. No bonus either.

Summons up some Naneke to plan out the stuff. Now the plan is done.

The Heranhal get to work.


They have intelligence, perception, and dexterity all at 3. The silencer is metal. It's made via crafts.

Total dicepool of Heranhal is 7. Add in the excellency? It's a 14. I think.

Extra Heranhal. 2 automatic successes.


7 successes on average. Add in 2. Nine.

Difficulty is 3. 6 successes.

You need 10 to make an artifact. Each roll is 1 per season. So basically, you need half a year, a master's workshop, and resources 2 of ingredients. Just to make 1 silencer that works like in the movies.

I feel… difficulty.

A/N: Did I do anything wrong in the calculations?
 
Or you could up your ambitions and make an Artifact gun that is THE spy movie gun and has the silencer effect as part of it. Maybe it's made of moonsilver and can meld into the user's skin to sneak it into places. And it's got some starmetal tracery that ensures that you never miss against extras. And a magazine that never runs out until the appropriate dramatic moment. The silencer is just a part of the package here.

Tl;dr, think bigger when you're doing Artifacts. Little effects should be thaum.
 
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Ok, looking at the rules of artifacts…

Ok, let's say a sorcerer summons several Heranhal into a pre-prepared master's workshop with available exotic components and neomah playmates.

Master's workshop: no penalty. No bonus either.

Summons up some Naneke to plan out the stuff. Now the plan is done.

The Heranhal get to work.


They have intelligence, perception, and dexterity all at 3. The silencer is metal. It's made via crafts.

Total dicepool of Heranhal is 7. Add in the excellency? It's a 14. I think.

Extra Heranhal. 2 automatic successes.


7 successes on average. Add in 2. Nine.

Difficulty is 3. 6 successes.

You need 10 to make an artifact. Each roll is 1 per season. So basically, you need half a year, a master's workshop, and resources 2 of ingredients. Just to make 1 silencer that works like in the movies.

I feel… difficulty.

A/N: Did I do anything wrong in the calculations?
Maybe what they make isn't a silencer, instead they make a Malfean Lead ring that prevents any sound from escaping the bearer. Or a wand of Liger's light that you tap a gun with that makes it act like a movie silenced gun for the next five days.
 
So um. I read Arms of the Chosen recently, and have been inspired to try my hand at a warstrider.

Is it okay to post it here for comment and critique? Last time I came here I got a distinct sense of hostility towards 3e.
 
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