I don't agree with @Jon Chung but dude, it's just a Celestial spell; there is an academy that teaches it right there in Heaven.
It's a Celestial Circle Sorcery spell. You, uh, learn it. You don't need anything besides motes.
Oh I didn't recognize the name and assumed it was a first age superweapon they would have had to gotten out of an armory.

It be a CSC spell would make it rather hard to hide your involvement though as there are only a small number of people who can cast those in the setting and odds are the list that have access to that specific spell is a lot smaller. Celestial circle sorcery is a big deal even for those exalt types with normal access such as sidreals.
 
Oh I didn't recognize the name and assumed it was a first age superweapon they would have had to gotten out of an armory.

It be a CSC spell would make it rather hard to hide your involvement though as there are only a small number of people who can cast those in the setting and odds are the list that have access to that specific spell is a lot smaller. Celestial circle sorcery is a big deal even for those exalt types with normal access such as sidreals.
If only Sidereals had some kind of thing that made people forget them... Some kind of, occulted destiny, maybe?... Hmmmm.

Oh right they do and we call it Arcane Fate; hiding in a basement, casting Cantata of Empty Voices and then disappearing (you can even use a Resplendent Destiny) isn't a very fun strategy, but it's entirely viable and very hard to beat unless you're already clued in in some way, in which case you can still guess wrong and think it's a Lunar.
 
If only Sidereals had some kind of thing that made people forget them... Some kind of, occulted destiny, maybe?... Hmmmm.

Oh right they do and we call it Arcane Fate; hiding in a basement, casting Cantata of Empty Voices and then disappearing (you can even use a Resplendent Destiny) isn't a very fun strategy, but it's entirely viable and very hard to beat unless you're already clued in in some way, in which case you can still guess wrong and think it's a Lunar.

Or another Solaroid, since literally all of them can get CCS and Solars don't have any sort of union that stops them fighting each other.
 
Yeah, but what solar has the resources and time and effort to spare to learn that?
One with Sidereal tutors, one with Lunar tutors, one that remembers it from his past life, one with a Third Circle tutor, one with a Deathlord tutor, one with a goddamned Second Circle tutor, one with a First Age instruction manual, one with another Solaroid tutor... :V
 
One with Sidereal tutors, one with Lunar tutors, one that remembers it from his past life, one with a Third Circle tutor, one with a Deathlord tutor, one with a goddamned Second Circle tutor, one with a First Age instruction manual, one with another Solaroid tutor... :V


One that's encountered the essence patterns encoding it into the world because dammit salina...
 
If only Sidereals had some kind of thing that made people forget them... Some kind of, occulted destiny, maybe?... Hmmmm.

Oh right they do and we call it Arcane Fate; hiding in a basement, casting Cantata of Empty Voices and then disappearing (you can even use a Resplendent Destiny) isn't a very fun strategy, but it's entirely viable and very hard to beat unless you're already clued in in some way, in which case you can still guess wrong and think it's a Lunar.
Don't be rude. Arcane fate doesn't work on other sidereals or members of the bureau of destiny which is exactly who would be investigating.

Or another Solaroid, since literally all of them can get CCS and Solars don't have any sort of union that stops them fighting each other.
There aren't that many solars and only a small minority* of them will have access to CCS which heaven probably has a pretty good idea of who they are and where they are in a general sense. ( especially the gold faction). An even smaller fraction will be close enough to have possibly done it (creation is huge). The same would go for lunar's.

A sidereal on the other hand have a job that requires them to be in certain areas which makes them pretty easy to track if you are above them in the chain of command and the list of Sideals who can cast that specific spell that has motive is probably less than you can count on one hand.


*1/6 of 150=30 are twilights and many of those will be dead at any given time (say 1/5), some will simply have focuses that don't include sorcery in what they do (say 1/2 sorcery is pretty good so it probably gets a good fraction of Twilights despite the high investment cost). That would only leave 12 solar CCS running around creation and odds are none of them will be withing sorcery aided transport distance of the blast. For that matter most of them probably don't know that specific spell either as blowing up cities isn't very high utility so unless they have reason the probably won't learn it in favor of summoning demons.
 
Elloge Charm

Antagonist Insertion Method
Cost
: 10m (+4m) Min: Essence 3 Type: Simple
Keyword: Sorcerous
Duration: Scene
Prerequisite: Behind the Role

Elloge views the world as her theatre, and has refined the act of searching for new characters and stories to an art form.

During the ritual the user may identify a single word or vague phrase that identifies the nature of the story she seeks. Upon completion she is ephemerally warped to a place within (essence) miles where a dramatic event loosely matching that description is occuring. The user stumbles onto the scene in a guise that matches the event and is compelled to fulfill their role in the scene, whatever that might be (this compulsion costs 1wp to resist). By paying a cost of 4m per extra person, the infernal may choose to invite other actors along to her performance, where they are all subject to the same restrictions of role.

Upon completion of the resulting scene, any actors may choose to commit 2m to extend the length of the disguise, though the effect can be disrupted at will, through any level of countermagic, or by taking a single point of damage.

This charm is generally used with some caution as the resulting scene may not be to the user's liking, such as an Infernal seeking 'heroism' finding herself sorcerously compelled to save a yiddak from exorcism.

Nicely in-theme, but what's the benefit?
 
If you have your own cities and your enemies can depopulate cities, knowing how to depopulate cities is of paramount utility. Otherwise your cities get depopulated, because you don't have a credible reason why they shouldn't.
Like, it's basically just nuclear deterrence except the nuke is made of your soul and the silo is screaming mystical bullshit at the top of your lungs. :V
Cantata of Empty Voices control treaties are of the utmost importance is what I'm taking away from this discussion.
One of the greatest sins of the First Age, argue scholars was that the Solars didn't do a proper job of stopping Adamant proliferation; of course, most of these scholars are Dragon-Blooded and wish Adamant and Sapphire Circle hadn't been spread in the first place. :V
 
Like, it's basically just nuclear deterrence except the nuke is made of your soul and the silo is screaming mystical bullshit at the top of your lungs. :V

Yeah, basically. So, you see why I don't like it when your geopolitical opponent is a hostile intelligence service based in Heaven (definitionally beyond your reach to retaliate against with any credibility) whose "rogue operatives" are walking nuclear weapons, yeah?

At least if they had another hostile intelligence service to deal with on their home ground, this isn't quite so egregious.
 
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If you have your own cities and your enemies can depopulate cities, knowing how to depopulate cities is of paramount utility. Otherwise your cities get depopulated, because you don't have a credible reason why they shouldn't.
Yes but if you are a CSS you probably know how to summon second circle demons which are generally capable of that level of destruction already if you summon the right ones just not in one blast, and summoning demons. A sidereal would probably want to avoid that in order to prevent investigators from summoning the same demon and asking who told them to destroy the city but a solar would probably benefit from the ability to tell a demon to do it and send them on their way instead of going into enemy territory personally.

Also a lot of twilights probably don't optimize their spell list around military might or geopolitics, but demons are good for so many things that they probably learned how for some reason even if it isn't for combat reasons. Also the primary enemies of solars the immaculate faith probably would come to kill you anyway because traveling to a city to destroy it takes you away from your area of power and the city is better dead that corrupting their souls serving anathema.
 
Yeah, basically. So, you see why I don't like it when your geopolitical opponent is a hostile intelligence service based in Heaven (definitionally beyond your reach to retaliate against with any credibility) whose "rogue operatives" are walking nuclear weapons, yeah?

At least if they had another hostile intelligence service to deal with on their home ground, this isn't quite so egregious.
I mean, it's fairly simple really. If you can retaliate against Yu-Shan it's too risky because it just gets the Sidereals together against you, if you can't retaliate, you're fucked, so if they had to deal with their own hostile intelligence service who are Also Walking Nucler Weapons By The Way, they would have to consider whether it's a good idea to actually nuke that Solar or not because to do so would make their co-workers who are Also Walking Nucler Weapons By The Way, which they would presumably not like to happen.
Also a lot of twilights probably don't optimize their spell list around military might or geopolitics.
:Citation Needed:
 
What is Magitech?

I don't think anyone has a satisfactory answer- or their answers are all highly personal and based on their impressions and preferences. This isn't a bad thing, but I feel like we should recognize our inherent biases. This is not a post for people to shout "Magitech is stupid/I removed it for this reason." We've seen that before.

Our evidence of Magitech is scattershot at best. As portrayed in the books, it has complicated moving parts. It can use consumable fuels and reagents. It uses exotic materials beyond that of less complex magical crafts. It requires power sources outside that of committed Essence. It also tends to be the home of automata or similar 'self-driven' devices.

You could even argue that the definition of 'Magitech' is that 'you must craft it with Magitech Ability' instead of the elemental crafts or whatever edition-appropriate equivilent you like. This is a fairly arbitrary definition and hardly a useful one. It's equivilent to 'you wield weapons with Melee' or similar. Functional, but it makes no statement and conveys no meaning.

Beyond that, Magitech is an attempt to codify and balance a certain tier of equipment or asset. You must have this much logistical back-end to make it work. That the self-limiting aspect of Magitech and the statement it makes on the setting is how much it costs to maintain. This is actually a feature, and one that's fairly well respected, I feel.

So having said that, I asked myself that question, and came to what I feel is a useful conclusion.

Magitech, as far as I believe was intended, is meant to be anything that you can't easily build or repair in the Second Age. It sounds obvious on the face of it, but the intent as I see it is to be this sort of 'space' in which wonders beyond that of the fallen eras rest. Not so far gone as to be out of the player's hands, but not something they're entitled to either.

Consider this- is it any less a science or technology, creating a Daiklave? I don't mean science/technology in the sense of hyper-rationalist behavior or obnoxious, dare I say pretentious injection of 'reality'.

I should point out that I do not have anything against 'realism' or 'believability' or even using things from the real world in Exalted/Creation. It's also difficult to balance 'good research' with 'enjoyable game content'.

Right now, a potentially useful definition of Magitech is 'magical workings that cannot be casually made or maintained in the Second Age'. This is not a mechaically useful definition- more a thematic one. You could easily argue the same of Sorcerous Workings in whatever system you prefer- sorcery is not widespread in the Second Age, afterall, absent the various magical academies of the past.
 
I mean, it's fairly simple really. If you can retaliate against Yu-Shan it's too risky because it just gets the Sidereals together against you, if you can't retaliate, you're fucked, so if they had to deal with their own hostile intelligence service who are Also Walking Nucler Weapons By The Way, they would have to consider whether it's a good idea to actually nuke that Solar or not because to do so would make their co-workers who are Also Walking Nucler Weapons By The Way, which they would presumably not like to happen.

Yep. Therefore, I think Bronze vs Gold is better as active hostility. Yu-Shan should not be "safe".
 
What is Magitech?

I don't think anyone has a satisfactory answer- or their answers are all highly personal and based on their impressions and preferences. This isn't a bad thing, but I feel like we should recognize our inherent biases. This is not a post for people to shout "Magitech is stupid/I removed it for this reason." We've seen that before.

Our evidence of Magitech is scattershot at best. As portrayed in the books, it has complicated moving parts. It can use consumable fuels and reagents. It uses exotic materials beyond that of less complex magical crafts. It requires power sources outside that of committed Essence. It also tends to be the home of automata or similar 'self-driven' devices.

You could even argue that the definition of 'Magitech' is that 'you must craft it with Magitech Ability' instead of the elemental crafts or whatever edition-appropriate equivilent you like. This is a fairly arbitrary definition and hardly a useful one. It's equivilent to 'you wield weapons with Melee' or similar. Functional, but it makes no statement and conveys no meaning.

Beyond that, Magitech is an attempt to codify and balance a certain tier of equipment or asset. You must have this much logistical back-end to make it work. That the self-limiting aspect of Magitech and the statement it makes on the setting is how much it costs to maintain. This is actually a feature, and one that's fairly well respected, I feel.

So having said that, I asked myself that question, and came to what I feel is a useful conclusion.

Magitech, as far as I believe was intended, is meant to be anything that you can't easily build or repair in the Second Age. It sounds obvious on the face of it, but the intent as I see it is to be this sort of 'space' in which wonders beyond that of the fallen eras rest. Not so far gone as to be out of the player's hands, but not something they're entitled to either.

Consider this- is it any less a science or technology, creating a Daiklave? I don't mean science/technology in the sense of hyper-rationalist behavior or obnoxious, dare I say pretentious injection of 'reality'.

I should point out that I do not have anything against 'realism' or 'believability' or even using things from the real world in Exalted/Creation. It's also difficult to balance 'good research' with 'enjoyable game content'.

Right now, a potentially useful definition of Magitech is 'magical workings that cannot be casually made or maintained in the Second Age'. This is not a mechaically useful definition- more a thematic one. You could easily argue the same of Sorcerous Workings in whatever system you prefer- sorcery is not widespread in the Second Age, afterall, absent the various magical academies of the past.
Would this work as a incredibly barebones blurb for magitech? "There is no available knowledge on how to make this or exactly how it functions, it's construction or functioning may require something unavailable or highly limited in the current age"
 
Would this work as a incredibly barebones blurb for magitech? "There is no available knowledge on how to make this or exactly how it functions, it's construction or functioning may require something unavailable or highly limited in the current age"

It's possible, but I don't think it's satisfying. Part of why I posted it was to prompt discussion. Most people think Magitech is where the Science Fiction Aesthetics live, which is a reasonable first-pass, but not actually... accurate or even long-term useful or healthy?
 
Nicely in-theme, but what's the benefit?
-Instant random encounter.
-Simultaneous escape and disguise.
-Semi-randomised travel. Use this outside the gates of a barred city with a well-picked keyword, and you'll find yourself inside and with a good disguise.
-One of the few disguise abilities that can cover a group.
-Offensive technique. You can use this on enemies after all. Imagine the ruler of a city stepping out for a minute and then his corpse is found an hour later with 20 witnesses saying they saw him trying to fight a belligerent drunk and dying for it.
-It lets an Infernal play with people's sense of reality. Just imagine a TED-favouring Infernal using this as a twisted seduction attempt to convince someone they'd make a perfect husband/bride, or a Malefactor showing a potential cultist the wonders of worshipping the Yozi.

That said, it is definitely the case that the random element is a detraction. I wanted to give the storyteller some veto rights to stop it from being too OP, but I had hoped that the whole 'descriptive keyword' struck the right balance for control. Does anyone think I overdid it?
 
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A Bronze Sidereal dropping Cantata of Empty Voices in your Solar kingdom's capital city, for example, is trivially easy for them to do (use a resplendent destiny to gain access and find a basement to hide in, cast spell to depopulate city, avoidance kata out, go back to heaven), impossible to prevent unless you never leave said city and impossible to retaliate against, since doing so would require invading Yu-Shan.
Wouldn't dropping that kind of firepower on a city like that get you hit with serve heavenly censure? IRRC wasn't there a Sidereal that did the same exact thing against a city that supported the Bull and got executed for it?
 
Most people think Magitech is where the Science Fiction Aesthetics live, which is a reasonable first-pass, but not actually... accurate or even long-term useful or healthy?
I think a problem is people see first age(and in some cases shogunite) tech as one homogenous blob made of equally hypertech items rather than millions of distinct items that have different levels of sophistication which are themselves composed of other items of generally less sophistication.

take for example a steam engine something which is seen as primitive by many people today and something of the industrial era yet is part of things as modern as nuclear power plants. or the fact that even in modern times we use simple shovels and other hand tools which haven't really changed much in hundreds of years beyond materials.

slightly off topic but i believe someone floated the idea a while ago that wonders of the first age should have been about components salvaged from inoperable ancient machines rather than immaculately preserved items that can be found an Solar Tombs and Vaults.
 
It's possible, but I don't think it's satisfying. Part of why I posted it was to prompt discussion. Most people think Magitech is where the Science Fiction Aesthetics live, which is a reasonable first-pass, but not actually... accurate or even long-term useful or healthy?

I like to think about magitech as 'the glories of infrastructure'. Rather then the unique masterwork crafted by a single genius craftsmen with whatever resources he could get his hands on, Magitech requires constant maintence and upkeep, but is well suited for standardisation and mass production...

If only the civilisation needed to train the technicians and gather the rare materials from the four elemental poles still existed. Of course magitech could come in many forms, not just the Sci-fi high Tech or Autocthon steampunk looks.

Dragon King floral power armor for example could be magi tech, with maintence requiring it to be fed wood element fertiliser and carefully pruned of dead growth that might threaten the structural integrity.
 
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