No, the reason he hasn't gone after the Linowans is that the westernmost part of Linowa is 1500 miles away from the easternmost reaches of the Icewalker lands, across hostile territory controlled by the Tear Eaters who are ancestor-cultist rival tribes now backed by the Lover and her Abyssals and also across two major rivers which are each wider than the English Channel.

This is exactly what I mean about the Bull of the North being map-cancer. The fact that an idiot writer wrote him getting involved in Halta and Linowa doesn't make it any less stupid. He's got more than enough issues in the Icewalker lands of the North - he doesn't need to also be jammed hard into the East as well.

(Halta is also map cancer. And Linowa would be, if the line wrote them as anything other than the designated beating sticks for Halta)

I guess they mostly just wanted to have a way to kill the Tepet's legions with for the Roseblack's story.

I guess you can just generate some Northern realm possession for that.

Edit: That would actually make more sense because it would lead to war termination right away, with the realm cutting its losses, rather than. "Well, there's an anathema warlord bearing down on one of our major allies. Do we want to do anything about that?"
 
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So! Between work and holidays, the latest bit of Autochthonia fluff I have been working on is taking longer than usual. But I managed to unearth this little fable I wrote, god, literally almost six years ago. Since I am still mildly proud of it, tossing it up here just the same.

Transcribed from the Tome of the Great Maker,
The Myth of the Engine-Heart Hero:

Back before the Age of Man, before the oceans sank back from their high crashing waves and the mountains settled to sleep in long eons, there was a woman. For Ages after some would call her Integrator, Troubleshooter, Clarity-bringer, the Architect, or the First-Of-Many. For now, we call her a Maiden. In the time preceding the rise and fall of civilizations, she had sat with the Omphalos before it dominated the horizon. She had walked the fires of Agni and in consuming herself allowed them to grow, and tended the branches of the World-tree before they spanned from heaven to earth. But the Maiden's work was unfinished, for the Sea and Sky could not meet on level grounds. A fully blown feud had blossomed between the two near-twins when they met upon the horizon, born of jealous rivalry in their equally infinite depths of broad blue expanse and endless black water. And so the Maiden walked to meet them.

On the path she found the Omphalos, standing tall among the mountains around it, and it spoke to her. It said, "You have sat with me, Maiden, and have taught me a great patience. I know of your journey to meet the Sea and Sky, and though it is no proper gift in return for company, ask me and I shall make you strong to resist the crushing might of the Sea." She laid a kindly hand on the Omphalos and thus was remade Enduring, and returned to the path she walked.

Onward she found the Bright Fires of Agni, stretching as far as the eye could see. Glowing and leaping playfully, they too spoke with her. They said, "Maiden, you have let us consume of you, and we have grown so far! Our joy is as boundless as our hunger! Please let us uplift you as thanks, so you might climb as we can into the heights of the Sky!" With a nod of her head, she was remade Unfettered and gingerly placed her feet upon the path once more.

Finally she traveled beneath the looming branches of the World-tree, for it spanned across the heavens. Bending low for her to hear, the wind tumbled through its leaves in hushed tones to her ears. It said to her, "Maiden, though you tended me in my youth, I am of allegiance to the Sky. I cannot give you blessings, but I can give you wisdom. The Sky is a vain creature and given to its wild moods, but in the black waters of the Sea are a roiling beast of many appetites. Both are not easily appeased." Bowing her gratitude to the World-tree, the Maiden walked to the distant shore, where she roared with the fires of Agni and climbed up to meet the Sky.

It did not take long, for the Sky was waiting, and it whipped at her with mighty winds. "I see all things which walk the land below, and know of your wishes to meddle in my affairs," It howled, "I will not let you deny me victory here!" With a thoughtful silence, the Maiden spoke, turning to depart. "I would not deny you O Sky, for your many beautiful colors are boundless and cannot be limited. But if you do not wish to hear my secret council on curtailing your rivalry, I will not give it." Curious and flattered the Sky instead buffered her higher, drawing itself around her. "You speak coyly, but you speak as truth. Name your terms and I shall meet them, but show me the means to stand alone as the mightiest!"

As she regarded the vast Sky, the Maiden spoke plainly. "My terms are minor, a small amount of that infinite color. If you grant me this, I promise you by morning that you will never look upon the Sea's deep depths for the rest of time." The Sky drew back in puzzlement, but finally conceded. "You shall have my colors, Maiden. But seek to betray my trust and I will crack the World-tree with a tempest that will pin it to the ground forevermore! I await your results!" Without fanfare, the Maiden pulled away from the Sky and gracefully plunged into the Sea with her prize in hand.

The Sea was brooding, and did not approve of such an intrusion. It gripped her tighter as she descended, seeking to crush the life from her. "I see the Sky's colors on you, Maiden!" It spat, swirling into itself to impede her passage. "I heard you would interfere, but not as so blatant a spy for my foe!" Buoyed but stalwart as the Omphalos against its incredible grip, she addressed the tides as a paragon of calm. "O Sea, I would not think to interfere with your conquest, and instead I bring you a cunning tribute!"

It churned around in confusion, for it was a simple creature. "Tribute?" Displaying the colors of the Sky, the Maiden nodded. "I bring you the Sky's many colors as tribute by ways of trickery! So you might wear its own face as your war-paint! Imagine its embarrassment when it realizes it has been fooled! Surely it will lower itself and bow to you alone." There was a pause as the waves surged and rippled, thinking the offer over. Finally it roared and crashed against her, wrenching at the colors and seeking its triumph. "I accept!" The Maiden gave them freely without resistance, and returned to the shore as night fell.

Morning brought the reborn Daystar, and the two puzzled rivals sat before each other with the Maiden between them. The Sky saw no Sea, and bent forward to find only itself reflected as fine as any mirror. The Maiden had spoke truthfully! It found only itself, no endless black depth! Overjoyed beyond measure, it reared back and flew to the heights of the world, where it remains to this day. Initially caught off guard by the advance of its adversary, the Sea was surprised when the Sky bent down to look upon its new war-visage, only to turn and run away! It crashed into itself mightily, naming for now and forever it would wear the face of the Sky to show its proud victory, the Maiden already forgotten.

Rising from her place along the shore, the Maiden turned to her path once again, her steel-hard steps of Omphalos ringing as the fires of Agni burned in her chest. She was the Troubleshooter, the Integrator, the Engine-Hearted Hero. And there were many things still left unfinished...


Transcribing notes: This original-issue tale has understandably mutated over the process of many thousands of years, primarily in ways that fill gaps in Autochthonian understanding. The fanciful infinite open-space of the story becomes the Far Reaches, the World-tree a vast network of conduits and cables, with confusing terms such as "horizon," "night" and the Daystar deleted entirely from the text. The biggest change of is the personification of the Skydome, now a bloated, blimp-like beast known as the Skizer, who gives up a tremendous fuel filter to divide the many blends of the oceanic Pole of Oil.

When performed in public theater the dramatic transformation of the Maiden from bare-faced actress to faceless force is given the bulk of the attention, along with the special-effects spectacle of outwitting and surmounting concepts far greater than herself filling out the rest of the stage, not the actual problem she resolves. In fact, the problem itself is seen as mildly nonsensical and baroque to modern audiences, usually changed to serve as metaphor towards something more recently topical between printed volumes of the Tome.

More daring productions add a devotional subtext, and insist nameless
Hero is blessed of Noi or Runel, as she adapts herself to fulfill the problem she sees, and in exchange walks away stronger having corrected a conflict and smoothed the operation of the greater world around her. The Engine-Heart Hero has understandably become a storytelling archetype of the quick-witted and pious, who takes on and sheds new aspects to contend with the trials of her latest adventure. The parallels between these tales and the reality of the Alchemical Exalted are not lost on the audience or the performers, and many Champions subtly incorporate touches of the Hero into public speeches and appearances to bolster that image.
 
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Make it a different Exalted warlord. No one, except the Realm- which 'cheats' by ways of their power base being in the centre of Creation- should really be able to effectively project force over multiple Directions imo.
 
I know it's map cancer, but I honestly do kind of want to do the Bull invading the East and the area around the Scavenger Lands
Across multiple mountain ranges and the sea? The logistics are insane. He'd need to actually consolidate his holdings in the north before he could even think about that.
 
Make it a different Exalted warlord. No one, except the Realm- which 'cheats' by ways of their power base being in the centre of Creation- should really be able to effectively project force over multiple Directions imo.

I guess I could, or even should, I just think the Bull is cool, and rather like the idea I had for him, which is him being jumped from three directions as his various enemies attack him first.

Across multiple mountain ranges and the sea? The logistics are insane. He'd need to actually consolidate his holdings in the north before he could even think about that.

To be honest, the logistics are not more insane than say, Alexander marching from Europe to India, or the Mongol or other step nomad world empires, and they didn't have sorcery.

He would need to consolidate the North First though.
 
I guess I could, or even should, I just think the Bull is cool, and rather like the idea I had for him, which is him being jumped from three directions as his various enemies attack him first.



To be honest, the logistics are not more insane than say, Alexander marching from Europe to India, or the Mongol or other step nomad world empires, and they didn't have sorcery.

He would need to consolidate the North First though.
OR he could be over stretching. He's so confident in his abilities that he doesn't consolidate the north or create proper supply lines, he assumes they can live off the land just like they do nirmally. This will of course bite home in the ass.
 
OR he could be over stretching. He's so confident in his abilities that he doesn't consolidate the north or create proper supply lines, he assumes they can live off the land just like they do nirmally. This will of course bite home in the ass.

I figure it would be after winning some giant battle against Lover Clad in Raiment of Tears almost certainly with the assistance of Arianna's circle, and this clears the space for him to spread forward.
 
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To be honest though, the biggest problem with the Bull is not map cancer, it's not even that they clearly don't know what to do with him now, it's that him beating the realm down makes you wonder why the lunars can't do the same. Because like, a Lunar circle could do almost everything he did, save maybe the Tiger Warrior training (do Lunars have a charm like that?)

I think the best idea for this is to assume that the Tepets force was smaller, and that they kind of thought they were fighting Lunars and you need a different set of tricks for Solars.
 
Um, no?

The version of Ma-Ha-Suchi I'm referring to doesn't muck around breeding up armies of goat-men who march under his banner. He instead finds existing civilizations and slowly bends them so that they will come into conflict with other, larger civilizations. Instead of building a society which will serve his needs, he wanders from one to the next, warping them, setting them on a course, and then letting them go to their doom as he moves on to the next. Ma-Ha-Suchi is the 3E Lunar everyone talked about a while back, supporting a revolutionary to unite local tribes in resistance against Realm expansion - knowing full well that they will fail, and die, and their children will suffer, but not caring, because in the course of doing so they will damage the Realm, while he himself will lose nothing.

Feral hordes of purpose-bred mutants are the opposite of what he does. The Wolf at Creation's Door hides in the shadows of history, appearing to men in whatever form and nature will most easily allow him to manipulate them. He has neither pride nor dignity unless the moment demands it, and rules nothing beyond his own flesh and Essence. The glory of the world has passed, the rulers of Creation have fallen. All that is left for Ma-Ha-Suchi is to torment and destroy the crude mostly-mortals who dare claim inheritance of what remains, turn the savages upon themselves until the last two people (aside from himself) die choking the life from one another.
 
Considering the number of Solars the Gold Sids have, you'd think they've would've have done at least something as impressive as the Bull has done.
 
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I sit corrected.

That said, on consideration, I feel like just trying to destroy everything left in the world is like, an abyssal motivation, not a lunar one.

Trying to repopulate the world with superior beings seems a lot more lunar to me.
 
I sit corrected.

That said, on consideration, I feel like just trying to destroy everything left in the world is like, an abyssal motivation, not a lunar one.

Trying to repopulate the world with superior beings seems a lot more lunar to me.
He's a First Age Elder. It wasn't his original motivation.
 
He's a First Age Elder. It wasn't his original motivation.

It just seems pretty lame if one of the greatest lunars in the world has a motivation that's basically "the Abyssals, but actually worse."

Especially given the Lunars have got the short end of the stick for editions in how much they've affected the settings, I don't really like it. It basically chops off one of the few things that Lunars have actually done in order to turn one of the most powerful of them from "Rebuild the world we should always have had" to "Just end everything. Fuck replacement."
 
I sit corrected.

That said, on consideration, I feel like just trying to destroy everything left in the world is like, an abyssal motivation, not a lunar one.

Trying to repopulate the world with superior beings seems a lot more lunar to me.
TAW Lunars aren't Stewards, they're Witches. They are Mad Outsider assassins who murdered anything that threatened the safety of those they cared about. They are the silent silver scalpel cutting the throats of the Primordial host in the darkness, as a counterpoint to the shining sword and sledgehammer of the solars and dragonbloods.

So yeah, TAW MHS actually fits their core rather well, it's just that he's convinced that the Shogunate and the Sidereals, along with all of their successors, are directly responsible for everything wrong with the world, and that the best way to fix things is to murder the problem and sort things out later once he's no longer opposed by peer opponents and their armies of followers.

Whether he actually will sort things out, or if he's just completely insane and wants to do to others as was done to him... Well, that's up to any given ST to sort out for themselves.
 
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To be honest though, the biggest problem with the Bull is not map cancer, it's not even that they clearly don't know what to do with him now, it's that him beating the realm down makes you wonder why the lunars can't do the same. Because like, a Lunar circle could do almost everything he did, save maybe the Tiger Warrior training (do Lunars have a charm like that?)

I think the best idea for this is to assume that the Tepets force was smaller, and that they kind of thought they were fighting Lunars and you need a different set of tricks for Solars.

How about...

Shortly after his great victory, the Bull was slain alongside most of his Circle in a daring commando raid by a small group of young Dragonbloods who survived the battle. Said Dragonbloods are now great heroes, renowned throughout the Realm.

Or so the story goes. Some people suspect it's false, though. The Cantata of Empty Voices was heard on the day the Bull died, and the last survivor of the Bull's Circle claims that the "heroes" were backed by Second Circle Demons and mysterious martial artists of impossible skill.

Of course, accusing your enemies of consorting with demon lords is the oldest trick in the book.
 
It just seems pretty lame if one of the greatest lunars in the world has a motivation that's basically "the Abyssals, but actually worse."

Especially given the Lunars have got the short end of the stick for editions in how much they've affected the settings, I don't really like it. It basically chops off one of the few things that Lunars have actually done in order to turn one of the most powerful of them from "Rebuild the world we should always have had" to "Just end everything. Fuck replacement."
Then you clearly haven't read enough of TAW to make authoritative statements about it - and frankly, this implies you haven't read enough of Exalted, period, because Ma Ha Suchi is not (in TAW) and arguably never was (in canon) 'one of the greatest Lunars in the world'.
 
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