Nobody has any opinions on my idea of modifying Solomon's summoning circle to replace all pentagrams with hexagrams?

I suggested that because the original form of Solomon's Seal was a hexagram, but Renaissance occultism referred to a type of pentagram as "Solomon's Seal" as well. Seems like hexagrams are more likely to make the summon work correctly.
 
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Plus he could like spam Broken Phantasm Hruntings, that could break past his armor.
Reminder that Gil's armor has tanked Saber swinging at it until he got bored along with lightning speed arrows from 20km away. There's a reason that Shirou was all 'oh man that armor's gotta be his Noble Phantasm' in Fate Route.

Basically, Gil lost to Shirou in UBW because Shirou was simply that pathetic; EMIYA, by virtue of being a Servant, immediately jumps up the threat scale above scrub-tier Shirou. Meaning that Gil actually takes him more serious than Shirou, because Gil would take anymore more seriously than Shirou.

Also, Kiritsugu + EMIYA = most dirty, yet effective, tactics ever.
This is, however, an excellent reason to summon EMIYA. Sniping masters from a distance with stupid powerful NPs is a sound strategy.
 
Don't mind me, trying to make sense of some things.

- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: The Black and White Scimitars
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: The Scythe
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: The Big Black Sword
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: The Twin Spears
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: The Holy Sword
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: The Drill-Like 'Sword'
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: …You don't like the look of that Katana
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: A Simple-Looking Dagger
- [ ] Yuuno's Projected Catalyst: The Sword of the Conqueror

Black & White Scimitars - EMIYA
Scythe - Death
Big Black Sword - Demise or Ghirham
Twin Spears - ??? I would say Diarmuid but he wasn't in the fourth war, therefore Shirou couldn't have Traced those weapons unless they were in the Gates of Bablyon. (The Lancers were Kyoko and the girl so beautiful she had to hide her face.)
Holy Sword - Arthuria
Drill-Like Sword - Gilgamesh
Katana - Karasuba most likely
Dagger - ???
Sword of the Conqueror - Iskander
 
[X] Kiritsugu's Summoning Circle: Archer
[X] Kiritsugu's Catalyst: Projected Weapon
-[X] Kiritsugu's Projected Catalyst: The Black and White Scimitars
[X] Yuuno's Catalyst: Seal of Solomon
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Experiment
 
Hey, two questions:
1) can we use more than one catalist?
2) what are the chances of getting a crossovered servant?

I may have been partially serious when i was talking about Algol. Seriously, guy had two swords that hated each other, both capable of doing horrible horrible things to all the world. And then he went "Bad Swords, Bad! No dinner for both of you. Now be wielded and stop complaining about each other."
 
Irisviel's manga work continued to go well, bringing in a profit to help cover the costs of living for the year. Her prime manga of the year, an illustration of a few of the more famous Greek myths, thanks to Shirou's efforts to learn about the mythology. She decided to put a twist on her version, though, swapping genders around to make people such as a woman Hercules and a man out of Medea.
This is bound to be a hit with the Servants.
Shirou, when he wasn't spending time in the kitchen or teaching Yuuno or Taiga, took to practicing his archery again. He didn't have anywhere to practice at home, so he tried to sneak into Taiga's old Junior High. When he got thrown out due to his lack of contacts there now, he snuck into Taiga's High School and started practicing with the club there. The students there were amazed at his archery skills, and look forward to the day where he can join them officially.
Dang...
Meanwhile, Taiga and Illya spoke around their respective social circles, making social connections and simply getting along with the people around them. Though Illya seems to be developing a ruthless personality that appears when she wants something done, she keeps it under wraps… most of the time.
Looks like we got the dark Ilya in there as per Prisma Ilya.
Around Uminari, besides the constant explosions in the forest near the temple where Yuuno 'trained' with Taiga, it was mostly quiet. The TSAB kept up enforcement, the police department kept trying to keep enforcement, MBI started to set up its headquarters, and invitations to Shinobu's and Kyouya's wedding were sent out.
The poor police department.
The biggest eye-catching thing that occurred was that Nanoha tried beating some sense into Fate, before giving up and trying to take lessons from Shirou on how to do so. Eventually, to Nanoha's embarrassment, Fate started following her around like a lost puppy whenever she could, though she had to be explicitly invited to take part in things instead of just watching.
YES, Fate is saved...but using the Shirou method gained a love interest.

:3

Ok, now before I vote, looking over our catalysts and summoning methods:
Seal of Solomon - Solomon the Wise
Kiritsugu Affinity - Neutral. No pros or cons either way.
Yuuno Affinity - High. As a scholar, they'd get along better, and Yuuno has no pride which might clash with a King.

Avalon - Arthuria Pendragon
Kiritsugu Affinity - Low. Super low. The most honorable king with the most dishonorable tactics.
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. She'd get along okay with Yuuno.

Black and White Scimitars - EMIYA Shirou
Kiritsugu Affinity - Low/High. Their tactics are compatible, but Shirou is distinctly on the "Hero of Justice" track and Kiritsugu is not going to work with someone who intends to break his son. Maybe they can work out something, but neither of them are any good with talking it over.
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. No pros or cons I can see.

Scythe - Rider Death
Kiritsugu Affinity - High(?). Not much higher affinity for Kiritsugu than this really.
Yuuno Affinity - High(?). Death worked with Waver. Yuuno would be fine.

Black Sword - NOPE

Twin Spears - Diarmuid(F)
Kiritsugu Affinity - None. We're more or less the kind of dishonorable thing he hates, but he's also unfailingly loyal. Useless for our purposes though.
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. Yuuno is about as inoffensive a master as possible. Ferret Swag may be involved.

Holy Sword(Caliburn) - Arthuria(Saber Lily edition)
Kiritsugu Affinity - Low. See Arthuria
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. See Arthuria

Drill Sword - Gilgamesh
Kiritsugu Affinity - None. Betrayal almost certain.
Yuuno Affinity - Low. Yuuno would have no problems working under him, but it'd still be under Gilgamesh. He's not a team player/

Katana - White haired katana battle freak girl

Simple Dagger - Unknown

Sword of the Conquerer - Iskander
Kiritsugu Affinity - Low. Simply not the type of person that the larger than life Iskander works well with.
Yuuno Affinity - High(?). It'd be like Fate/Zero Waver all over again.

Affinity summons - Kiritsugu
Probably a bad idea for the reason that anyone with an affinity to Kiritsugu simply isn't trustworthy.

Affinity summons - Yuuno
Possible to summon something out of Midchildan legend. It's also likely to produce some kind of mage or scholar, due to his interests, or deliver a Shielder.
Overall, Yuuno affinity summoning is 'safe'

Experimental
Experimental circles are our best chance of getting Solomon with Caster taken, getting him in an unusual class.

Basic
Basic circles meanwhile are best for affinity summons since we don't know what we'd be getting.


Conclusion:
Solomon can go with either Master, though slightly better with Yuuno.
Gilgamesh is off limits.
EMIYA will still want Shirou dead. Tohsaka Rin will not summon EMIYA as her catalyst has no connection with him.
Shirou may or may not acquire a late master slot and summon Arthuria by accident.
Kiritsugu is not to attempt an affinity summoning.
Yuuno is compatible with pretty much anything.
 
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Sword of the Conquerer - Iskander
Kiritsugu Affinity
- Low. Simply not the type of person that the larger than life Iskander works well with.
Yuuno Affinity - High(?). It'd be like Fate/Zero Waver all over again.
Its worth mentioning that this catalyst is a bad idea regardless due to the fact that Waver has already summoned Iskandar as a Saber.
 
[X] Kiritsugu's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Kiritsugu's Catalyst: Seal of Solomon

As all the Servants with an affinity to Kiritsugu has serious issues, I'd grab one he's nominally neutral with at least.
The Projected catalysts mostly don't go well with our plans, and some of which can actively do a lot of damage to our plans.
EMIYA especially, will not go well with Shirou.

[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Additional changes? Use the Mid-childan style magic circle.
[X] Yuuno's Catalyst: Forgo the Catalyst

Yuuno, meanwhile, is our means to Plan B a faux Caster backup if Solomon doesn't go right. Pretty much every possible Mid-childan Servant will have to be a magus, and Yuuno is nearly guaranteed to get a Servant that can cooperate. So he gets to roll the dice.
 
I don't know if I am misremenbering something but didn't the grail had a safety feature that made it impossible to summon servants who were already summoned ?
 
I don't know if I am misremenbering something but didn't the grail had a safety feature that made it impossible to summon servants who were already summoned ?
I... think so? But it's often rather hard to tell what qualifies as "already summoned". If Gilles de Rais was summoned as Saber, he would be totally different that Zero Caster; does that qualify as a different Servant? What about Saber and Saber Alter? Different versions of EMIYA? Normal Gilgamesh and Proto-Gilgamesh? The Throne is outside of time and space, so it's impossible to know if it can be done without succeeding.
 
I don't know if I am misremenbering something but didn't the grail had a safety feature that made it impossible to summon servants who were already summoned ?
In theory, but this is Nasuverse and we're intensely AU here already. As ALL Servants are simply imitations of the true Heroic Spirits, it's possible if you have grailhax.

Pretty much all we can count on is that things won't go as planned, so at least, avoiding Servants who might want you or your family dead is the only measure we can take.
 
I... think so? But it's often rather hard to tell what qualifies as "already summoned". If Gilles de Rais was summoned as Saber, he would be totally different that Zero Caster; does that qualify as a different Servant? What about Saber and Saber Alter? Different versions of EMIYA? Normal Gilgamesh and Proto-Gilgamesh? The Throne is outside of time and space, so it's impossible to know if it can be done without succeeding.
Actually, as far i remember(The wiki seem to not say anything about it, so i may have read it elsewhere/i may be misremembering) Zero's caster was a badly summoned abomination: Gilles didn't have in his legend any magical ability to allow qualification as caster. He probably got glued some bits of francesco prelati to make it fit.

So weird things could happen.
 
[X] Kiritsugu's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Kiritsugu's Catalyst: Seal of Solomon
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Additional changes? Use the Mid-childan style magic circle.
[X] Yuuno's Catalyst: Forgo the Catalyst
 
Uhh, any particular reason you're trying to make Kiritsugu summon Solomon despite the fact that Yuuno is far more likely to have good compatibility with him?
 
Actually, as far i remember(The wiki seem to not say anything about it, so i may have read it elsewhere/i may be misremembering) Zero's caster was a badly summoned abomination: Gilles didn't have in his legend any magical ability to allow qualification as caster. He probably got glued some bits of francesco prelati to make it fit.

So weird things could happen.

Right, I don't even know what's Avenger's fault or what's the Einzbern's design flaws/lack of maintenance anymore. It's still the latter's fault either way though.
 
Ghirahim, the evil Saber summoned by Kiritsugu in the previous war, can transform into a large, black sword, which then gets wielded by his creator, Demise, the Legend of Zelda equivalent of Satan.

Well, that's a definite do not touch catalyst. By the way, where do you guys get your info about the previous grail war?
 
This is bound to be a hit with the Servants.

Dang...

Looks like we got the dark Ilya in there as per Prisma Ilya.

The poor police department.

YES, Fate is saved...but using the Shirou method gained a love interest.

:3

Ok, now before I vote, looking over our catalysts and summoning methods:
Seal of Solomon - Solomon the Wise
Kiritsugu Affinity
- Neutral. No pros or cons either way.
Yuuno Affinity - High. As a scholar, they'd get along better, and Yuuno has no pride which might clash with a King.

Avalon - Arthuria Pendragon
Kiritsugu Affinity
- Low. Super low. The most honorable king with the most dishonorable tactics.
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. She'd get along okay with Yuuno.

Black and White Scimitars - EMIYA Shirou
Kiritsugu Affinity
- Low/High. Their tactics are compatible, but Shirou is distinctly on the "Hero of Justice" track and Kiritsugu is not going to work with someone who intends to break his son. Maybe they can work out something, but neither of them are any good with talking it over.
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. No pros or cons I can see.

Scythe - Rider Death
Kiritsugu Affinity
- High(?). Not much higher affinity for Kiritsugu than this really.
Yuuno Affinity - High(?). Death worked with Waver. Yuuno would be fine.

Black Sword - NOPE

Twin Spears - Diarmuid(F)
Kiritsugu Affinity
- None. We're more or less the kind of dishonorable thing he hates, but he's also unfailingly loyal. Useless for our purposes though.
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. Yuuno is about as inoffensive a master as possible. Ferret Swag may be involved.

Holy Sword(Caliburn) - Arthuria(Saber Lily edition)
Kiritsugu Affinity - Low. See Arthuria
Yuuno Affinity - Neutral. See Arthuria

Drill Sword - Gilgamesh
Kiritsugu Affinity - None. Betrayal almost certain.
Yuuno Affinity - Low. Yuuno would have no problems working under him, but it'd still be under Gilgamesh. He's not a team player/

Katana - White haired katana battle freak girl

Simple Dagger - Unknown

Sword of the Conquerer - Iskander
Kiritsugu Affinity
- Low. Simply not the type of person that the larger than life Iskander works well with.
Yuuno Affinity - High(?). It'd be like Fate/Zero Waver all over again.

Affinity summons - Kiritsugu
Probably a bad idea for the reason that anyone with an affinity to Kiritsugu simply isn't trustworthy.

Affinity summons - Yuuno
Possible to summon something out of Midchildan legend. It's also likely to produce some kind of mage or scholar, due to his interests, or deliver a Shielder.
Overall, Yuuno affinity summoning is 'safe'

Experimental
Experimental circles are our best chance of getting Solomon with Caster taken, getting him in an unusual class.

Basic
Basic circles meanwhile are best for affinity summons since we don't know what we'd be getting.


Conclusion:
Solomon can go with either Master, though slightly better with Yuuno.
Gilgamesh is off limits.
EMIYA will still want Shirou dead. Tohsaka Rin will not summon EMIYA as her catalyst has no connection with him.
Shirou may or may not acquire a late master slot and summon Arthuria by accident.
Kiritsugu is not to attempt an affinity summoning.
Yuuno is compatible with pretty much anything.

I do like your analysis, but another thing to consider is that eventually we have to beat Gilgamesh, unless we want to evacuate the planet.

Pretty much either Arthur or EMIYA have the best chance we know of to shut Gil down. EMIYA UBW allows him neuter GOB offensive capabilities setting up Solomon for a super laser beam kill, and Arthur's Avalon is probably the only defense against EA which allows her to close the distance and land a lethal blow on Gilgamesh.

I am not sure we can beat Gil with Solomon, and whatever Yuuno summons. I mean I could be wrong since who knows how rediculous Solomon and whatever Yuuno summons is.

I do think summoning Solomon is necessary as his ring allows us to straight up neutralize Zokeun's shadow (I am pretty certain that shadow counts as a demon) by binding and sealing it preventing one of the main factors in this war. Also he gives the best shot at curing our kids of their ailments.

We also should consider how the combo matches up the Heracles as the Eizenbern's plan probably involve murdering our family and nothing good. I am not too worried about Solomon+Yuuno's Servant vs Herc as the 72 demons provide more than enough ways to kill him 12 times.
 
I'm honestly highly doubtful that Kiritsugu and Solomon would get along at all.

Having good compatibility with Solomon is far more important to me than making sure we get two really powerful Servants. Remember that our priority is healing Illya, Shirou, Hayate, and maybe Rin. Our chances of pulling that off are almost zero if Solomon dislikes us.
 
Is Solomon hard to get along with?
Pretty much either Arthur or EMIYA have the best chance we know of to shut Gil down. EMIYA UBW allows him neuter GOB offensive capabilities setting up Solomon for a super laser beam kill, and Arthur's Avalon is probably the only defense against EA which allows her to close the distance and land a lethal blow on Gilgamesh.
UBW doesn't even nearly begin to neuter GoB if Gilgamesh is taking it at all seriously. They are both using the same type of ability, except Gilgamesh has defense NPs as well as offense, and Gilgamesh has more power in every single category. If you want to beat Gilgamesh in a straight fight, you summon Gilgamesh.

The reason Shirou beat him was because he was fucking around with a mere mortal.
The reason Saber beat him was because he was fucking around flirting instead of fighting seriously.

Changing my vote to avoid making problems for ourselves. EMIYA is not interested in winning the war, and Shirou is still the person he wants to kill.

[X] Kiritsugu's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Kiritsugu's Catalyst: Seal of Solomon
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Additional changes? Use the Mid-childan style magic circle.
[X] Yuuno's Catalyst: Forgo the Catalyst
 
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