The reason Saber beat him was because he was fucking around flirting instead of fighting seriously.

Changing my vote to avoid making problems for ourselves. EMIYA is not interested in winning the war, and Shirou is still the person he wants to kill.
Saber also won due to Gilgamesh not expecting her to have Avalon.

You do realize that having Kiritsugu do an affinity based summon doesn't require it to be affinity with Kiritsugu himself, right? Just have someone else stand where you would normally place a catalyst to summon based on that person's affinity.
 
Saber also won due to Gilgamesh not expecting her to have Avalon.

You do realize that having Kiritsugu do an affinity based summon doesn't require it to be affinity with Kiritsugu himself, right? Just have someone else stand where you would normally place a catalyst to summon based on that person's affinity.
That gives you just the bad part of affinity summon without the good part of a Servant that fits the master though?
 
That gives you just the bad part of affinity summon without the good part of a Servant that fits the master though?
Yes, but Kiritsugu and the wise king are not going to get along at all either.

Also, when predicting Archer's actions, keep in mind that in the Heaven's Feel route, he briefly goes out of his way to protect Illya. One of our primary goals is helping Illya, so over there our interests align. Protecting Illya was even one of the things that led to his death in that route.
 
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Yes, but Kiritsugu and the wise king are not going to get along at all either.
Why not?
Solomon did many of the things that Kiritsugu would have, the only difference is Solomon is a divinely blessed overpowered monster and Kiritsugu is an Urobuchi protagonist.

He's not a nice man.

Also, when predicting Archer's actions, keep in mind that in the Heaven's Feel route, he briefly goes out of his way to protect Illya. One of our primary goals is helping Illya, so over there our interests align. Protecting Illya was even one of the things that led to his death in that route.
He still has the main goal of killing Shirou.
 
We did a little bit actually. His distortion is only at 6/7, not maxed out. Also, Shirou's vastly different skillset (competent magus, for starters) and history will help with making Archer not feel like they're the same person.
EMIYA's basic dislike is based on Shirou's ideals betraying him in the end. Skill doesn't do anything, his dream was impossible to begin with, and becoming a Counter Guardian will still be an eternity of murder. It's different, but not in the ways that matter.
 
EMIYA's basic dislike is based on Shirou's ideals betraying him in the end. Skill doesn't do anything, his dream was impossible to begin with, and becoming a Counter Guardian will still be an eternity of murder. It's different, but not in the ways that matter.
Again, Distortion is slightly less than canon because we reduced it once. That's probably enough to make Archer think that this Shirou might be on a different path.
 
[X] Kiritsugu's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Kiritsugu's Catalyst: Seal of Solomon
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Additional changes? Use the Mid-childan style magic circle.
[X] Yuuno's Catalyst: Forgo the Catalyst
 
Again, Distortion is slightly less than canon because we reduced it once. That's probably enough to make Archer think that this Shirou might be on a different path.
Not gambling on it.

If it was Saber at least it's worth trying since even if she dislikes us she won't do anything about it.
Someone whose goal was to kill Shirou is not a good gamble when he's more or less the same person.
 
Not gambling on it.

If it was Saber at least it's worth trying since even if she dislikes us she won't do anything about it.
Someone whose goal was to kill Shirou is not a good gamble when he's more or less the same person.
If he doesn't interact much with Shirou, its impossible for that to become his goal. If Kiritsugu summons Archer, Shirou would be far more likely to be hanging around with Yuuno and Solomon than Kiritsugu and Archer, especially since Kerry and Archer would be doing underhanded tactics from the shadows the whole time.
 
Not gambling on it.

If it was Saber at least it's worth trying since even if she dislikes us she won't do anything about it.
Someone whose goal was to kill Shirou is not a good gamble when he's more or less the same person.
There is literally a zero percent chance that this Shirou will become a Counter Guardian.

Given that zero percent chance, there is no reason for EMIYA to try to kill him, since his entire motivation is to try to stop that.

Also, EMIYA is a better Gilgamesh counter than basically any other Servant. You can't say "well, it wouldn't happen because Gilgamesh didn't take Shirou seriously" because Gilgamesh doesn't take anyone seriously. If he did, he'd just pull out Ea immediately, smash Fuyuki, and grab the Grail. One-and-done. Except he's too arrogant for that. Yes, even against other Servants. If we can surprise Gilgamesh with the Unlimited Blade Works, we can team up and take him down. We might not even have to, given that this is a totally different situation from canon.

Finally. Kiritsugu and EMIYA are likely to have a good compatibility; I'm not sure about Solomon, but I'm pretty sure he'd work better with Yuuno, given that Kiritsugu has a tendency to rub people the wrong way. Thus, Kiritsugu should summon EMIYA and Yuuno should summon Solomon.
 
Still don't see EMIYA giving enough benefits to risk him existing at the same time as Shirou.

Also Shirou is currently almost full steam to Counter Guardian.
 
Ultimately, we don't know how EMIYA will react to a full Emiya family. If we even have a full Emiya family by the end of the summoning, since all signs to point to someone trying to interrupt it. :V

After all, EMIYA is pretty good at deception.
 
There is literally a zero percent chance that this Shirou will become a Counter Guardian.

Given that zero percent chance, there is no reason for EMIYA to try to kill him, since his entire motivation is to try to stop that.

Also, EMIYA is a better Gilgamesh counter than basically any other Servant. You can't say "well, it wouldn't happen because Gilgamesh didn't take Shirou seriously" because Gilgamesh doesn't take anyone seriously. If he did, he'd just pull out Ea immediately, smash Fuyuki, and grab the Grail. One-and-done. Except he's too arrogant for that. Yes, even against other Servants. If we can surprise Gilgamesh with the Unlimited Blade Works, we can team up and take him down. We might not even have to, given that this is a totally different situation from canon.

Finally. Kiritsugu and EMIYA are likely to have a good compatibility; I'm not sure about Solomon, but I'm pretty sure he'd work better with Yuuno, given that Kiritsugu has a tendency to rub people the wrong way. Thus, Kiritsugu should summon EMIYA and Yuuno should summon Solomon.
There's exactly two people whom Gilgamesh will take completely seriously, although one of them might not apply in this timeline. Iskandar and Enkidu.

Also, I agree with you on compatibility.
Still don't see EMIYA giving enough benefits to risk him existing at the same time as Shirou.

Also Shirou is currently almost full steam to Counter Guardian.
No he's not. The only reason Shirou would ever make a contract with the World is if he's both fully distorted, doesn't have enough friends and family to hold him back, and isn't strong enough to be a hero.

He's not fully distorted (only mostly), he's got far more friends and family, many of which would never let him do something that suicidal, and he's well on his way to being powerful enough to be a hero without the World's help. Improving two of those things is one of the reasons why I've been trying to progress Hayate Route on the side.
 
Also, before we get into any further EMIYA debates, I'm pretty the only reason he wants to kill Shirou is to time paradox himself out of being a Counter Guardian. Therefore, he shouldn't want to kill Shirou since the timeline is FUBAR enough to be unrecognizable to him.
 
Out of curiosity, what happens if we teleport A servant while they are in their reality marble with the occupants inside? I mean use command seal come over here. Do the other occupants get taken with the reality marble to where we are, or are they ejected and only the caster of the reality marble comes over.
 
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Also, before we get into any further EMIYA debates, I'm pretty the only reason he wants to kill Shirou is to time paradox himself out of being a Counter Guardian. Therefore, he shouldn't want to kill Shirou since the timeline is FUBAR enough to be unrecognizable to him.
If Shirou does not become a Counter Guardian he can't be summoned because he can't exist. So if he can be summoned he will want to kill Shirou unless the universe is broken and he's moving on to the kill everything stage of a counter guardian.
 
If Shirou does not become a Counter Guardian he can't be summoned because he can't exist. So if he can be summoned he will want to kill Shirou unless the universe is broken and he's moving on to the kill everything stage of a counter guardian.
... What? No, that's totally incorrect. The Throne of Heroes and the Root exist outside of time and space; this has been stated repeatedly in this thread. Word of Nasu has it that even if EMIYA were to succeed in killing Shirou, it wouldn't accomplish anything, and he knows it; he just wants to hold onto hope. Word of Nasu also says that none of the three canon routes would lead to Shirou becoming EMIYA, so EMIYA can, in fact, be summoned into this timeline.
 
If Shirou does not become a Counter Guardian he can't be summoned because he can't exist. So if he can be summoned he will want to kill Shirou unless the universe is broken and he's moving on to the kill everything stage of a counter guardian.
No. The Throne of Heroes exists outside the multiverse. Its even possible for multiple versions of the same Heroic Spirit to exist.

Hell, due to the infinite nature of the multiverse, the Throne could even contain an actual Heroic Spirit EMIYA who isn't a Counter Guardian.
 
[X] Kiritsugu's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Kiritsugu's Catalyst: Seal of Solomon
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Additional changes? Use the Mid-childan style magic circle.
[X] Yuuno's Catalyst: Forgo the Catalyst

Watch Yuuno summon Counter Guardian TAKAMACHI.
 
[X] Kiritsugu's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Kiritsugu's Catalyst: Seal of Solomon
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Experiment (Non-Standard Class)
[X] Yuuno's Summoning Circle: Additional changes? Use the Mid-childan style magic circle.
[X] Yuuno's Catalyst: Forgo the Catalyst

Watch Yuuno summon Counter Guardian TAKAMACHI.
Dang it, people! We just explained why Kiritsugu will have a better compatibility with EMIYA than Solomon! And Yuuno will definitely have a better compatibility with Solomon than Kiritsugu!
 
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