Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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Opportunity cost obviously. We could spend those actions on other things. Like actions we know the outcome of, or a more profitable mystery box like the mansus.

Yeah I know.

I just think its a massive shame that we are too busy to be getting a sacrament and a lore to level 4 for the next two turns. Depending on the other sacrament requirements would could possibly keep doing it.

It would be nice to walk in to our next cult meeting with two sacraments along with raising lantern to level 4 and forge to level 4.
 
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And a sacrament does not help with not getting killed by the cult how?

Not seeing your reasoning here.
Because Moth 5 as opposed to Moth 4 doesn't actually defend against anything the cult would throw at us? They know where we live if we stay in Ponyville, so it's not like we'd be able to apply it to hiding. If we move, they're going to have a lot more trouble finding and/or reaching us anyway by virtue of living at a new address in a town/city with minimal to no cult influence. We already have Wrong Keys for defending against offensive rituals, and Moth 4 gets us the reroll anyway; if Moth even applies to PTN defense, it's probably Winter actually. Moth doesn't contribute to combat rolls, which would be the next big concern (i.e. getting summons thrown at us). It doesn't help reduce the cult influence at all. It doesn't help increase our influence at all.

So every threat the cult can and will be able to levy against us is either unaffected or minimally affected by getting Moth to 5 rather than leaving it at 4. And that's not even getting into the opportunity cost.

You're suggesting we spend at least 5 whole actions on getting a single, noncritical Lore to Level 5. That's literally an entire turn's worth of actions. That's five actions we wouldn't be spending on actually countering the cult or stealing the Hintchasers or bolstering our Wake power or whatever else, which actually will help us with Not Dying.

Edit: Especially since, in the worst case scenario (or at least the most plausible worst case scenario), we may only have ~12 'unhunted' actions, if we get outed at the end of T16/start of T17 because of the Twilight Situation.
 
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Moth doesn't contribute to combat rolls, which would be the next big concern (i.e. getting summons throw at us).
Not directly, but as Bird explained it could be really good for either escaping or setting up ambushes. Otherwise I agree, yeah.

Actually, I wonder what our Edge sacrament might look like? That could be a lot more useful…
 
Yeah I know.

I just think its a massive shame that we are too busy to be getting a sacrament and a lore to level 4 for the next two turns. Depending on the other sacrament requirements would could possibly keep doing it.

It would be nice to walk in to our next cult meeting with two sacraments along with raising lantern to level 4 and forge to level 4.
It would be nice truly, and maybe well be able to squeeze in the secret histories sacrament, but who knows.

And I apologize for being short with you.

So what do you guys think of doing the Baldomares expedition as a way to make friends with her?

Count it as an 1AP on social and 1AP on the sacrement and it's a pretty decent deal. Though it's also a double mystery box AND off topic.

*sigh* I just really want to get Twilight already.

Edit:
@Ericwinter I agree, as a reminder though our edge power was surprise negation, and Comet feet also has a sensory edge power.
 
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Debatable but I get the impression you've already made up your mind about Moth lore.

To be honest we don't actually know what sacraments give us so passing judgement on them is totally premature.
Please, debate it. I would really like to know how you think spending 5 actions (likely more) to get a single Lore to Level 5 and a Sacrament of unknown benefit would help more as opposed to actual anti-cult actions.
 
So what do you guys think of doing the Baldomares expedition as a way to make friends with her?
Not sure it would? It might help, I guess. But to be honest I'm really interested in Velvet's own Sacrament. It just feels more narratively satisfying for our Branded Lore, not to mention our first sacrament.

Then again, it has been noted that our book/artifact search rolls are kind of…. Not useless, but less useful? Although the actual narrative use of our History sight has been amazing.
 
So what do you guys think of doing the Baldomares expedition as a way to make friends with her?

Count it as an 1AP on social and 1AP on the sacrement and it's a pretty decent deal. Though it's also a double mystery box AND off topic.

*sigh* I just really want to get Twilight already.

Personally I'm more interested in our own sacrament for secret histories, Baldomares seems to be better for expeditions but we don't really go on those so it wouldn't be as useful to us. Besides doing our own sacrament gives us a really good reason to finally do The Incision of the Heart ritual.

For Twilight I'm kinda wondering if we can manage to convince the Master to hand her over. Do that whole plot I thought about earlier where we reveal that the douse the lights history has been served from the tapestry and inform the Master that to find the knowledge of the history we need to call upon the wolf, and what do you know but Twilight is in the perfect position to become an Apostate- there is no such thing as coincidences, they don't exist.
 
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Please, debate it. I would really like to know how you think spending 5 actions (likely more) to get a single Lore to Level 5 and a Sacrament of unknown benefit would help more as opposed to actual anti-cult actions.

I'd argue against any lore being described as "noncritical" but especially Moth lore. Moth is the lore we use to avoid suspicion and going to jail is a game over man. Now we don't know how likely it is that the cult would send the authorities after us is but they own a good portion of the local guards and Copper is convincing enough without the Master giving her a grail influence.

Unknown benefits of the sacrament aside lore does have narrative effects and more power is always handy.
 
Total aside, but I do wonder if our unexpected personal power is a large part of why Velvet is such a mythical figure in the Cult. Like, imagine us not having All-3, or even mostly Threes by this point. Not being at least tied for the foremost expert in a majority of Lores. Not being able to slam dunk the summons of two different Names and easily plan for a third. Our broad range might still be scary, but without the paired depth?

It says something that Comet's the only guy who's been able to challenge us for depth in even one Lore, and unless he's got a Sacrament now, that's not even the case any longer.
 
I'd argue against any lore being described as "noncritical" but especially Moth lore. Moth is the lore we use to avoid suspicion and going to jail is a game over man. Now we don't know how likely it is that the cult would send the authorities after us is but they own a good portion of the local guards and Copper is convincing enough without the Master giving her a grail influence.

Unknown benefits of the sacrament aside lore does have narrative effects and more power is always handy.
Okay fair. Describing any Lore as noncritical isn't really a fair description. I still argue that Moth 5 + Sacrament will not be beneficial enough over just Moth 4 and the results of 5+ alternative actions to justify spending that many actions on it, when we have better options available to us to counter the cult.

Grail, not Moth, is the Lore we use for lying, which is what we'd be doing if the authorities are knocking on our door. And better yet would be preventing the cult from sending the authorities from knocking on our door in the first place, which would require, say, making sure we have our own influence to pull on in the guard or Ponyville's government. And if we're really that worried about Copper, putting her into a coma is only one ritual action away.

Yes, more power is always handy. But Lore power is not the only form of power we need right now, and there is a point where the opportunity cost is not worth getting that extra bit of power right now this very minute.
 
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And if we're really that worried about Copper, putting her into a coma is only one ritual action away.

when we have better options available to us to counter the cult.

Look if your that anti cult there is the option to summon a bunch Windigo's and stick them on the cult. That's a good way to counter the cult right?

The issue is that there are a bunch of lines to burn with the cult. There's a difference between an amiable parting where we're both too dangerous to fight it out so we ignore eachother and a war to the knife.

I'd rather we gather enough power to peacefully separate with the cult rather then fight it out with them.

Less assassination and subversion and more I have much higher lore and a bunch of summons in my basement so don't make me come over there.
 
Yeah, personally I'm of the opinion that having several Names in our house would be more than enough concentration of power to convince the Master and Cult to just not bother. Hell, if we get lucky and find the path to the Malleary this turn, just one AP in the Mansus would probably be enough to actually explore it and most likely find King Crucible.

Like, I don't actually want to mess with the Cult too much. We just can't do enough damage that any significant damage will cripple them, and significant damage would start an actual war.
 
Look if your that anti cult there is the option to summon a bunch Windigo's and stick them on the cult. That's a good way to counter the cult right?
No, because the vast majority of the cult consists of civilians whose only crime is being a part of an organization headed by an amoral eldritch demigod.

You seem to be mistaking my aversion to letting the cult just grow their influence willy nilly without at least trying to set up our own buffer/defense as a desire to kill everyone in the cult.

Less assassination and subversion and more I have much higher lore and a bunch of summons in my basement so don't make me come over there.
Your plan of 'spend 5+ actions for Moth 5' doesn't even do that though. It leaves us basically exactly as we are now, with slightly more eldritch power and no mundane power.

If, for the sake of argument, we wanted to lean solely on eldritch power for whatever reason, taking lessons from the Master is incredibly inefficient at it. It consists of just 1 scrap for 1 AP, then however many actions needed for Sacrament, and only for one Lore. The same number of actions would give us (at least) 10 exploration actions in the Mansus, which not only gives us scraps for multiple Lores, letting us work toward All-4, it also gives additional goodies such as:

Influences
Summons, of both the lesser spirits and Name varieties.
Reagents? (unconfirmed, but likely)

Edit:
Like, I don't actually want to mess with the Cult too much. We just can't do enough damage that any significant damage will cripple them, and significant damage would start an actual war.
Even if we can't cripple them, we can still take actions to protect ourselves against their mundane reach on top of also being the Terrifying Loremaster; they're hardly mutually exclusive courses of action. If we stay in Ponyville, obviously.
 
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from the story-that-wasn't with Apprentice Soft Sweep it seems that, at least in this quest, it might just not be an omni-effective secret, but simply a very specific one.

In our case, it would have been that we KNEW about the changelings, and never warned the government, which means we could have prevented her family's death.

Even worse, they died because WE pushed the master to attack the changelings immediately, and we gave them the means to do so, starting the whole chain of events that would end in Canterlot's tragedy

It makes me wonder if just anyone could learn it.

The Lionsmith, Edge Ascendant, and Soft Sweeps all are betrayed in a pretty similar manner. Their mentor in the lore destroying what they most cared about and using them to their own gain.

Upon learning this each turns against their master and seeks/gains ascension.

I don't think I have the words to express what I'm trying to get at. There is a sort of duality in each. You have been manipulated to another's gain. Betrayed in trust but your rebellion is empowered for it.

I don't recall there be any hints that any Hours but The Lionsmith know The Secret itself. Know of surely, but I think that they don't understand it as such. They're not the type of people who could.
 
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Bird has both given us the task of weakening the cults influence, and the task of not pissing the cult off so much that the master simply decides to *snip* us.

This confuses me. As we must remove the cult for our safety and also not destroy them for our own safety.

I am forestalling deciding how much damage I actually want to do until we get (good enough) awnsers about what damaging the cult will actually... do.

This is kind of a nebulous thing though, and not really a priority.
 
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Again I advocate for not raising the cult just for sabotage sake. We take what we need and what benefits ourselves but leave as much alone as we can to avoid heavy handed reprisal.

To say nothing of the various occult nonsense it the cult wanted to sabotage us in full all they'd need is to out us as a member to the authorities, thus kneecapping us. Of course we can do the same back to the cult but I think our best case scenario is a MAD situation with the cult where both sides are scared to escalate. And if we do grand sabotage the cult may just cut their losses and out us consequences be dammed.
 
Again I advocate for not raising the cult just for sabotage sake. We take what we need and what benefits ourselves but leave as much alone as we can to avoid heavy handed reprisal.

To say nothing of the various occult nonsense it the cult wanted to sabotage us in full all they'd need is to out us as a member to the authorities, thus kneecapping us. Of course we can do the same back to the cult but I think our best case scenario is a MAD situation with the cult where both sides are scared to escalate. And if we do grand sabotage the cult may just cut their losses and out us consequences be dammed.
This is a true, wise and excellent point. And this stance has also been endorsed by bird as such.

Weakening them for when they do inevitably decide to take a swing at us is also true, wise, and an excellent point. And a stance that has been endorsed by bird as such.

@_@

Dis why I'm not making any plans until we know more.
 
We tried. We broke into the Princesses private rooms with Twilight trying to prove it. But then Luna was Luna and when we saw Princess Cadance the next day she didn't even acknowledge what had happened.
I've been meaning to address this for a while.

Unless I am sorely mistaken, you have not yet talked to Cadance ever since you met the False!Luna on Canterlot. I'm pretty sure you talked to her before invading the Royal Wing with Twilight, but not after. So it didn't happen that "she didn't even acknowledge what had happened".

And in fact, she did acknowledge it, subtly. The update with several Histories comes after that, and in one of the possibilities Cadance still assigns her guards to you, which you took as a sign of support, if nothing else.

But you have not yet personally met any alicorns, ever since that reputational fiasco.

Yeah, but… we don't have a very specific thing to do? Unless we just… spend socialization actions on her. Can we do that?
About that. Them being summons places them in a similar circumstance to Confidants, where you "can't" socialize with them because they are already (in the Names case, literally) living with you.

When it comes to the Mansus and its dwellers, actions matter, not words.

What other cities are there beyond Manehattan and Canterlot?
The "big name" cities are definitely those two, and Ponyville of course. If more cities are needed for mechanical reasons, I'll let the thread know. If not, they are just background cities for narrative reasons (like the one you went with your husband when you made up after Selene's arrival).

That might happen soon, but not yet, so don't worry about it.

@BirdBodhisattva

The Winter and Edge sacrament is missing from the sacrament thread mark.

Also two of the summons are missing from the ritual list.
Oh, you only learn what Sacraments are "possible" once you reach level 4. So you can (if you want) do Sacrament preparations in parallel to your efforts of acquiring the "4/4" scraps of Lore if they are required.

So you don't know about the Winter and Edge sacraments yet, if those will be offered by the Wolf.

For example, the Master can give you a Moth sacrament, but you will only learn the prerequisites one you reach level 4 on that. And Baldomare (for her Lantern Sacrament) basically told you to "come back later", while she was more upfront for the Secret Histories one.

So patience, that will be added soon, hopefully. (I also gotta add your Knock personal sacrament option there).

And about the summons, nothing wrong so far. You can't summon the Wolf-Divided himself (although you did learn Windigo summoning from him, indirectly) and you don't yet know how to summon the Master. Yes, even though you literally were the main ritualist who summoned him once. Bit confusing, innit? I blame Moth.

Mmm. New Avatar, same as the old Avatar.
And they learned the joys of prowling in wolf-form, through the ways that led neither to the Old Form of the Carapace nor to the New Form of the Skinless.

Huzzah!

Are we sure this is canon? It's in the threadmarks, yeah, but it's also very meta. It sounds more like @BirdBodhisattva giving us advice and behind-the-curtain peeks in a memey way than an actual hint that Pinkie Pie is an Hour of all things.
I'll address this shortly! Towards the end of this post.

Just found this thread a few days ago, and now caught up.
Wellcome! I am glad that you have joined us, and I hope we can all have fun!


Now, I can not remember if Bird ever made an actual WoG, but there's a lot of evidence that you actually have to be on the edge of Level Five.
Correct. Some sacraments (like your personal SH option) can be done before reaching 4/4. They usually are the ones that involve researches, or more overt action. Other sacraments are more akin to "crossing a threshold", in the sense that you reach 4/4, reaches a point that "you are now ready" and then do a single act that solidifies your decision and sacraments you.

The sacraments will always specify if you need 4/4 before acting or not. Please let me know if there are any confusions otherwise, since that involves your plan-voting considerations.

Also, please remind me to add a "Sacrament options" tab on the next Turn Vote. I didn't do it before because only Personal SH would be there (being the only one you can work on, that is already available to make some progress). But your Personal KNOCK will also be like that, in a sense.



Right! Finally, back here and doing things, yay!

First of all, as always, I hope you are all doing fine. And thank you for your patience! This finals period took a chunk out of me, and I only regained enough sanity to deem myself alright not long ago, cue the latest update.

But now, finally, I should have more free time. Which means, I hope, more opportunities to write! I really am sorry that turn 14 has been going on for longer than the whole dang school semester, but I am doing my best, and hopefully I'll be able to finish it in not a long period of time!

Oh, and in regards to the last, meta-ish update:
-It was definitely not canon. At least in the sense that you should worry about it.
-Pinkie Pie is definitely not the Twins. The Twins are gone, and Pinkie took up her task in uniting the group of gossiping friends.
-Pinkie Pie is definitely a mortal pony, and you should not treat her (or expect to treat her) in any different way that you would the Pinkie Pie we know and love from the show.
-Elagabalus was definitely a mortal man, and you should not treat him (or expect to treat him) in any different way than you would a Roman Emperor of the third century.
-But that was really just a celebratory pause, and the true story is meant to be read by skipping it!

And, as per a long lost tradition, this is indeed a smoke screen! Now let me edit the next update to post...
 
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