Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Kaelor said:
PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
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(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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Honestly, I'm just sort of indignant over how the Master is not only screwing us over right now, but doing so incompetently. They disappear off the face of the planet for a few months, perform a false flag attack against us, spring this on us now of all times and still just assume that we're totally cool with them and don't have any plans of our own? Really, they deserve to get Wolfed just for how sloppy this plan was.

The fact that we are in a position to Wolf them at all and that they really don't see it coming just says to me that we've been overestimating how clever they are.
 
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Alchemist767676 said:
we've been overestimating how clever they are.
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Well, the Master doesn't think we are hostile because Eldritch Viewpoint, and why would a non hostile being suddenly Wolf them (and other than that the Master has nothing to fear from Velvet)?

As for cleverness, they used 1AP to propel themselves in a much better position, and perhaps even have the Master's mini Victory Condition fall into their lap if Velvet agrees like the Master thinks she will?
 
lurker9875 said:
Counterpoint: Moth Level 7 can fake or hide this stuff trivially, and we know that the Master is prone to acting in ways not compatible with Pony morality all the time?
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First of all, we don't know exactly how the transfer works. Master needing Marinette implies to me, with the way Marinette's Second Birth works (sacrificing health for breaking bindings) that the process will weaken Master at least a little. And honestly, even if it doesn't, faking being Harmony-aligned isn't really bad? Like good deeds/words done with insincerity are still a net good.

Secondly, in regards to not acting with conventional morality, I don't think that has anything to do with the conversation here, really. Master will be a foal for a good chunk of time, and we know he's adept at making perfect masks. Obviously acting like an unhinged madman makes a bad disguise. And even if not by the time any of this even happens Velvet as won, or died. That's the main thing, really. Unless we win we'll never see the consequences and if we die it's irrelevant. With the Wolf we'll be dealing with the aftermath the entire quest.
 
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Lykantos said:
And honestly, even if it doesn't, faking being Harmony-aligned isn't really bad? Like good deeds/words done with insincerity are still a net good.
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Well, if we assume that Moth 7 is the level of an Hour's proficiency (given how a Level 7 Book is the last remnant of an Hour's power), then we can also further assume that "Cadance's firstborn son" can hide from Hour!Velvet with some effort. And since we also know that the Master likes the Old Ways of things and wants to bring it back...

Besides, an Hour!Velvet that is willing to allow such things to happen or worse is/becomes ok with it isn't exactly great either?
(Just like an Hour!Velvet that is willing to do more RAs tbf, but then as an Hour there will be no need for RAs anymore anyway)

Lykantos said:
With the Wolf we'll be dealing with the aftermath the entire quest.
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Yep.
But is "I can't hear your words over your actions" and Velvet being able to remain Cadance's best friend even after this not also count as aftermath?

(At the end of the day we are arguing between two very bad options, it's just that I think that Accept is worse even after considering everything mentioned so far, because of implications for Velvet's character and potential Epilogue problems)

permeakra said:
Also, it pollutes your perspective anyway, without your conscious input, urging you to do that treacherous rationalization thing.
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If that is inevitably true (which I doubt - impartiality can be maintained with some effort once you are aware of your own biases), then isn't the only solution for the QM not to post in their own thread or clarify options at all beyond updates, which has plenty of other problems?
 
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I stand by my opinion we should choose to kill the Master. None of these are good choices. Honestly, if people are really concerned about the morality of it all, I personally feel they should choose Show your true colors. Yes it kills Shining, but it's taking a stand against what they represent. I'm skeptical Velvet can win and I think that's also worse for the world, but I'll fight the good fight. Fundamentally though I think people are to caught up on the effect Velvet has on the world. Yes, the outcome of Regrettable Actions are terrible. They're a nuclear option with all that entails, but they're arguably the worst thing Velvet can inflict on the world. I also understand that we view them through the mechanical lense of picking too many causes the Wolf ending. That's just it though, as we've clearly seen in this update, other characters have agency and Velvet is not the biggest fish in the sea. Sure she's invoking the Wolf, and he's up there, but I think it's wrong to assume the Master can't influence the world just as negatively, I suppose accept just punts the issue down the line and maybe we can mitigate it, but making them an Alicorn doesn't seem like the best idea even if it won't be covered in the scope of this quest. Personally, considering what it's doing to Cadence, it's not a decision I'm willing to make right now. Maybe if we were on our final stain I could justify it, but not now.
 
Solace2117 said:
Yes it kills Shining, but it's taking a stand against what they represent.
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Honestly, the problem with that option is that it's probably just taking a stand for the sake of taking a stand, because killing Shining also drops Cadance and Equestria's morale into the pits (I'd argue it's worse than a RA if we are only talking about Morale and not actual effects, and can be somewhat compared to the Catastrophobe) - ponies will forever remember that a day before the Alicorn wedding that was unprecedented in history her husband-to-be just dies straight up out of nowhere one day before?
 
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lurker9875 said:
If that is inevitably true (which I doubt - impartiality can be maintained with some effort once you are aware of your own biases), then isn't the only solution for the QM not to post in their own thread or clarify options at all beyond updates, which has plenty of other problems?
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It is one of approaches to the problem. It is an extreme one, though. A generality I subscribe to is that extremes are easy to find, but are usually worse than a hard to find good compromise. And a sign of a good compromise is that nobody is happy about it.
 
I just realized Master is the first confirmed Level 7 anything we've encountered the entire Quest. The Wolf doesn't count because I don't think we really know it's Levels? That's very impressive and actually a bit surprising because every other Name has only a maximum of Level 6 so far. And we know the difference between levels only gets wider.
 
The unchained part implies Master was imprisoned like Marinette, but even she isn't a Level 7. So I guess it lends some credence to the theory that Master is a remnant of the Moth itself? So far all the Names we know are ascended mortals so having a 'higher' starting point might be the difference, but then that begs the question of who or what could seal such a creature.

Do we know Chrysalis' levels? She was a direct descendant of another Hour, right? More distant though, so maybe not quite the same.
 
Lykantos said:
The unchained part implies Master was imprisoned like Marinette, but even she isn't a Level 7. So I guess it lends some credence to the theory that Master is a remnant of the Moth itself?
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It more ties to the idea that, because of the Cult type that was voted on at the beginning of the quest, one of the many possible Masters became that Master, and the rest were rendered (retroactively) unable or unwilling to pursue a cult of their own.
BirdBodhisattva said:
Patience, Grave Digger. Anyhow, the thing that you need to know is that the Master picking was basically choosing "who would take action". I won't say if they picked the most or the least interesting one, even though I know the answer, but by choosing that they made it so that other actors didn't decide to actively interfere in the Wake.
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So when we chose the Moth cult (I say we, there were like a dozen votes back then?), we chose that the Master (Moth-master) would be the one 'unchained', choosing and able to take action.

(Mareinette 'unchained' could have been an option. I'm sure that would have been fun.)
 
Solace2117 said:
They're a nuclear option with all that entails, but they're arguably the worst thing Velvet can inflict on the world. I also understand that we view them through the mechanical lense of picking too many causes the Wolf ending. That's just it though, as we've clearly seen in this update, other characters have agency and Velvet is not the biggest fish in the sea. Sure she's invoking the Wolf, and he's up there, but I think it's wrong to assume the Master can't influence the world just as negatively
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Regrettable Actions are the worst thing Velvet can inflict upon the world, can being the key word here.

There's no specification that it has to be some kind of "only worse than what you could do with your own two hooves" thing, otherwise we would never have managed the broad-scale suffering Paranoia inflicts; no other action we could have taken in those moments was remotely on that scale.

If Velvet can in this moment decide to give the Master a child-alicorn body, then a Regrettable alternative will by its very nature be more evil than that choice could possibly be.
 
spiderhellian said:
It more ties to the idea that, because of the Cult type that was voted on at the beginning of the quest, one of the many possible Masters became that Master, and the rest were rendered (retroactively) unable or unwilling to pursue a cult of their own.

So when we chose the Moth cult (I say we, there were like a dozen votes back then?), we chose that the Master (Moth-master) would be the one 'unchained', choosing and able to take action.

(Mareinette 'unchained' could have been an option. I'm sure that would have been fun.)
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That makes sense, but it still means there was something that prevented the Master from acting and then that something was bypassed/broken, which is useful knowledge in itself. Also, if Marinette was an option, that means the possible Masters were not equal in Lore levels, since again, Master is the only one we've met with a Level 7. That's pretty interesting imo.
 
Lykantos said:
Also, if Marinette was an option, that means the possible Masters were not equal in Lore levels, since again, Master is the only one we've met with a Level 7. That's pretty interesting imo.
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Have to remember that these entities have been shaped by that choice of Cult. I'm pretty sure that if Mareinette had been the Master, she would have had a Level 7 lore. Ditto for Baldomare. Ditto for Axe. And in those Histories, when we met the Moth-Name of the Woods, he would be only Moth 6.
 
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lurker9875 said:
Honestly, the problem with that option is that it's probably just taking a stand for the sake of taking a stand, because killing Shining also drops Cadance and Equestria's morale into the pits (I'd argue it's worse than a RA if we are only talking about Morale and not actual effects, and can be somewhat compared to the Catastrophobe) - ponies will forever remember that a day before the Alicorn wedding that was unprecedented in history her husband-to-be just dies straight up out of nowhere one day before?
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Eh, I don't disagree necessarily, and I'm speaking more in the taking a stand for morality, though it's all subjective to an extent.
jason1stlegion said:
Regrettable Actions are the worst thing Velvet can inflict upon the world, can being the key word here.

There's no specification that it has to be some kind of "only worse than what you could do with your own two hooves" thing, otherwise we would never have managed the broad-scale suffering Paranoia inflicts; no other action we could have taken in those moments was remotely on that scale.

If Velvet can in this moment decide to give the Master a child-alicorn body, then a Regrettable alternative will by its very nature be more evil than that choice could possibly be.
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I mean in the scope of the quest sure and if that's all you care about fine. Assuming the Master wouldn't use those powers to commit greater evil. My point was other characters have agency and more power than Velvet. I think it's wrong to assume they aren't more willing to commit acts on the same scale or worse.
 
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