The American Experiment (Riot Quest)

Voting is open
[X][nation] Write-in: North American Commonwealth
[X][capital] Chicago
[X][name] Rename Washington D.C. to Anacostia Commune.
-[X] As an advisory vote subject to ratification by residents of same
[X][name] Support local renaming initiatives away from reactionary figures, but otherwise leave commune naming to the individual communes.
 
Let's think about this.

A lot of this is just naming so it's whatever. More of a symptom of our politics than anything likely to influence them back.

The one vote with real consequences here is going to be the capital. And the main priority in my mind is putting it where the proletariat is most likely to force the government to answer to it, in the same logic that kept revolutionary France's capital at the heart of the Paris mob.

That kinda rules out all options except Chicago and New York. Both have their advantages. But I think Chicago has a stronger claim due to its role in the revolution.

[X][capital] Chicago

The other voters are just cosmetic.

[X][nation] Write-in: North American Commonwealth

I think it's on brand for American socialists to want some local and english flavour rather than a generic name.

[X][name] Rename Washington D.C. to Douglass Commune.
-[X] Subject to ratification by residents of same

I like not changing the acronym.
 
What we should do is de-northify the republic by placing its new capital in the South. I propose New Orleans.
 
What we should do is de-northify the republic by placing its new capital in the South. I propose New Orleans.
The old capital was in the South, albeit the Upper South rather than the Deep South. It didn't much help matters.

I still think the correct choice is to put the capital somewhere without shell-craters (or, in more Nyvisian terms, with a proletariat that has not been subjected to the physical and spiritual trauma, and organizational disruption, of enemy bombardment and/or occupation; thus more able to readily assert itself). Of the important UF centres, that means Chicago, San Francisco, and Baltimore, the latter two of which aren't in the running.
 
The old capital was in the South, albeit the Upper South rather than the Deep South. It didn't much help matters.

I still think the correct choice is to put the capital somewhere without shell-craters (or, in more Nyvisian terms, with a proletariat that has not been subjected to the physical and spiritual trauma, and organizational disruption, of enemy bombardment and/or occupation; thus more able to readily assert itself). Of the important UF centres, that means Chicago, San Francisco, and Baltimore, the latter two of which aren't in the running.

Agreed. The south has no industrial centers with a proletariat up to the task of outnumbering the bureaucracy that will immediately flock to the new capital.
 
At QM's request, flag concept I've been kicking around. In my head I've been tentatively calling it "New Glory," by contrast to "Old Glory."

 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by Physici on May 31, 2024 at 10:09 PM, finished with 54 posts and 28 votes.
 
Constituent Assembly Part 7: Congressional Supremacy and Ballot Access
AN: Discuss Zimmerwald's flag some? If there aren't alternate proposals I'll probably just make it canon.


It was a fierce debate, but eventually a majority of Congress united around naming the country the North American Commonwealth. A commonwealth was originally a noun meaning public welfare, then expanding its definition to mean a republic with supreme power vested in the people. It was therefore a rather apt descriptor for the goals of the new country. The name also reflected the unitary nature of the state, not being a federation or union of states. It also was specifically a geographical descriptor, avoiding nationalism.

Chicago was kept as the capital. A hub of transportation and industry, having existing government infrastructure, and having a developed proletariat nearby, allowing them to keep the government to task.

Finally, concurrently to the constituent assembly session, Congress had a short discussion on renaming cities. Eventually it was decided to be a pointless diversion and up to the cities to rename away from reactionary figures, though they did make an advisory vote to rename Washington D.C. to the Anacostia Commune, which was shortly adapted by that city.


The first topic of discussion was a proposal that the national Congress be able to dissolve the government of a province or commune should it act illegally. As provinces would be much weaker than states were, it was far more likely that one would step past its legal authority, and this would be a tool to stop it from doing so. On the other hand, many believed this was a horrible breach of national power, and could be used in a partisan manner to force control over a local area.


Next was on the strength of this constitution itself. Previously the Supreme Court had the power to declare a law unconstitutional, but this was given to themselves by themselves, not by the constitution. Here there was a proposal to formalize this, allowing the judicial system to judge laws, except with a more democratic process—however they would choose the judicial system to be structured, permanently appointed judges would not be happening.

But many opposed this due to the previous Supreme Court's consistently reactionary rulings, especially minority groups that had been hurt by it. Thus an alternative proposal was made: instead of reviewing laws afterwards, a Congressional committee would be required to review laws before they were passed to ensure they did not violate the constitution. They would have the power to modify legislation to ensure compliance, making it a powerful group.

Finally, the anarchists championed Congressional superiority, that the will of the people must not be challenged, and the people of the future must not be chained to the past. This would make the constitution have no enforcement power, and a single Congress could do anything they want. Constitutionalists decried this as dangerous and the other more radical delegates were divided between supporting immediate democracy and wanting to ensure staying power of their own constitution.

The third topic was guaranteeing ballot access to candidates. The SLP had oft had trouble getting ballot access, relying on write-ins on their first few attempts at winning a state, which often made them lose areas they had substantial support in. On the other hand, as the largest party, keeping it difficult to start a new party could prevent split-offs.

A recognized party would be able to nominate candidates for any position, automatically getting on the ballot. A candidate not part of a recognized party (either as an independent or a minor party) also must have a way to grt ballot access, the current support being a guarantee of ballot access based on number of signatures in a district.

There were several proposed requirements for a party to be recognized, any party needing to fit all of them. One was requiring that they have candidates who have won elections before, requiring they have gotten 10% of the vote in a province, and/or requiring that they had gotten 5% of the vote nationally before. These would make the process for creating a party to be running candidates through filing them individually one year, and then if they do well being able to skip that process as they'd be a recognized party. Or, to not require running in an election first, requiring that the party have 20,000 eligible voters.

Another was worries about stagnant party structures controlling things too much. Solutions to this were requirements of holding a mass meeting or convention (already common practice), or furthermore requirements that this be a democratic process within the entire party membership, such as through a primary election.

Another requirement for ensuring democratic parties could be that party officers be elected from party membership in a democratic manner. This would conflict with the SLP itself, which currently has a more complicated method of many party officer positions being chosen by/party decisions made by the Executive Committee of the United Front which is in turn elected by the organizations of the United Front. As said organizations all nominally support the SLP (and indeed membership in a UF organization and registration in the SLP almost entirely overlap), the SLP considers this democratic, but it would have to change should this become a requirement, making the SLP more independent from the United Front.

The last proposed requirement was that during filing, the party must have at least 1% of eligible voters in any province as signatures.

Most likely they would decide on only a few requirements, but which ones were hotly debated.

An alternate proposal was rejecting recognizing political parties at all, putting all candidates on an equal slate at all times. This would ensure the weakest control of the party leadership, but would add an additional hurtle to running candidates in general, as each individual one of the tens of thousands per election would have to get on the ballot.


[][dissolve] The national Congress has the full right to dissolve a provincial or commune government if it decides it acted illegally.

Unitary +3, state-federal -3, commune-federal -3

X0.93 voting modifier

[][dissolve] The national Congress does not have the right to dissolve a provincial or commune government if it decides it acted illegally.

State-federal +3, commune-federal +3, unitary -3

X1.07 voting modifier


[][review] The court system can decide if a law is unconstitutional.

Constitutionalist +3, minority -2, anarchist -3

X0.68 voting modifier

[][review] A Congressional committee reviews laws before they are passed to ensure they are constitutional.

Constitutionalist +2, anarchist -2

X0.98 voting modifier

[][review] Congressional supremacy, there are no checks or balances on the will of the people.

Anarchist +3, constitutionalist -3

X1.03 voting modifier


[][party] The following requirements are needed to be a recognized political party.
-[] They need to have candidates who have won elections before (i.e. through the individual ballot access process).
-[] They need to have gotten at least 10% of the vote in a province last year.
-[] They need to have gotten at least 5% of the vote nationally last year.
-[] The party must have at least 20,000 eligible voters.
-[] The party must hold a mass meeting or convention to decide on candidates.
-[] The party's convention for candidates must have candidates democratically chosen, such as through a primary election, with all party members eligible to vote.
-[] Party officers must be elected from party membership in a democratic manner.
-[] The party must have signatures from at least 1% of eligible voters in a province when filing for recognition.
-[] Write-in requirement.

Choose as many or as few requirements as you want. Votes must be exactly like each other to count as the same, i.e. this is a plan vote. Note the SLP, LLRP, CS, Populists, Republicans, and Democrats are all grandfathered in due to being in the Provisional Congress, but certain requirements (such as requiring a percent of the vote in a province last year) can make them lose recognition status in the future.

[][party] Have no recognized political parties, all candidates must individually get ballot access.


[][ballot] An individual gets ballot access with 3% of eligible voters in a district as signatures.

With a district size of 12, this is around half the number of votes they need to actually win the election.

[][ballot] An individual gets ballot access with 1% of eligible voters in a district as signatures.

Easy to get on, this could cause an excessive number of candidates in smaller districts.


Interest GroupsFactions# of delegates
Anarcho-Syndicalists⅔ SLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Anarchist, Industrial Unionism124
Anarcho-Collectivists½ SLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Anarchist, Commune-Federal372
Anarcho-CommunistsRevolutionary Socialist, Anarchist, Commune-Federal24
Appalachians⅓ SLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Anarchist, Commune-Federal, Local-Autonomy132
Various MarxistsSLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Statist, Industrial Unionism, Unitary, Marxist259
Marxist-VoightistsSLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Statist, Unitary, Minority, Marxist704
Other statist socialistsSLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Statist, Unitary, Minority20
PossibilistsSLP, Social Democrat, Constitutionalist, Statist104
Technocrats⅓ SLP, Social Democrat, Constitutionalist, Statist50
Indigenous Rights½ SLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Local-Autonomy, Minority18
LLRPConstitutionalist, Statist, State-Federal64
Urbanist LeftistsSLP, Minority, Revolutionary Socialist, Unitary53
Agrarian SocialistsSLP, Minority, Revolutionary Socialist, Commune-Federal, Agrarianism169
JeffersoniansSLP, Minority, Constitutionalist, Statist, Unitary, Agrarianism49
Religious Socialists½ SLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Anarchist, Commune-Federal62
SoldiersSLP, Revolutionary Socialist, Statist16
Christian Socialists of AmericaConstitutionalist, Social Democrat, Statist, State-Federal28
Progressive RepublicansConstitutionalist, Statist, State-Federal, Pro-Business53
Democratic-PopulistsConstitutionalist, Statist, State-Federal, Agrarianism, Pro-Business274
Left-PopulistsConstitutionalist, Statist, State-Federal, Agrarianism44
Total2619



Vote by line, not plan, representing the difficulties of getting a >2500 group to discuss agree on something. The vote will run until a clear majority, and then I will start the normal supporters gather vote.

You may suggest a write-in for an option and I'll assign a voting modifier for it.
 
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[][dissolve] The national Congress does not have the right to dissolve a provincial or commune government if it decides it acted illegally.
[][review] A Congressional committee reviews laws before they are passed to ensure they are constitutional.
[][party] Have no recognized political parties, all candidates must individually get ballot access.
[][ballot] An individual gets ballot access with 1% of eligible voters in a district as signatures.
 
[][dissolve] The national Congress has the full right to dissolve a provincial or commune government if it decides it acted illegally.
-[] On a three-fifths majority rather than a simple majority
[][review] Congressional supremacy, there are no checks or balances on the will of the people.
[][party] Have no recognized political parties, all candidates must individually get ballot access.
[][ballot] An individual gets ballot access with 1% of eligible voters in a district as signatures.

Congress must be supreme, for purposes of both [dissolve] and [review] -- but some safeguards for communes' self-government get built into [dissolve]. To the extent Congress thinks it can make use of a committee to review the code of statutes for consistency, it can avail itself of one; but no outside body (or worse, a minority of the Congress, however constituted) should be able to forestall Congress's deliberations or decisions. State regulation of party bylaws, and state establishment of some parties but not others, both offend freedom of association and freedom of conscience in the same way as state regulation and establishment of religion, and must be rejected. Further, I would not have the SLP in particular turned into a creature of the state as opposed to the instrument of its members and of the UF affiliates. To ensure ballot access to a wide array of candidates in the absence of a recognition system, I would set the threshold for candidacy as low as possible.

EDIT: also, in what I'm sure is a surprise, I think my flag is good. And that the Republic of China should adopt one very much like it ;)
 
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I'm definitely with Zimmerwald on the courts. In universe the opinion would be even lower than here because the courts have only ever been a reactionary institution.
 
Foreign Affairs rolls
Rolls
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: CWF Militantness: Total: 61
14 14 8 8 8 8 18 18 13 13
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: CWF Strength Total: 52
1 1 9 9 11 11 17 17 14 14
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: General Assembly Militantness: Total: 59
11 11 10 10 13 13 12 12 13 13
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: General Assembly Strength Total: 51
2 2 11 11 5 5 16 16 17 17
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Russian Radicalism Total: 54
14 14 9 9 16 16 13 13 2 2
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Japan attack Total: 62
8 8 19 19 5 5 12 12 18 18
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: China defend Total: 61
11 11 17 17 2 2 18 18 13 13
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Japanese Negotiations Total: 54
5 5 19 19 20 20 6 6 4 4
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Chinese Negotiations Total: 61
5 5 12 12 19 19 13 13 12 12
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Tibet Skirmishing Total: 70
10 10 9 9 20 20 15 15 16 16
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: China Skirmishing Total: 48
2 2 11 11 14 14 1 1 20 20
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: French radicalness Total: 45
11 11 5 5 11 11 4 4 14 14
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: French crackdown Total: 26
6 6 2 2 7 7 4 4 7 7
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Veterans and protesters Total: 57
18 18 3 3 15 15 11 11 10 10
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: General Rius Rivera Total: 77
19 19 6 6 19 19 20 20 13 13
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: CWF rally army Total: 39
5 5 3 3 16 16 12 12 3 3
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Rivera rally army Total: 88
14 14 20 20 17 17 20 20 17 17
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: CLA-assembly Total: 58
19 19 18 18 6 6 11 11 4 4
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: CLA-council Total: 50
8 8 1 1 19 19 20 20 2 2
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Union radicalism Total: 46
17 17 10 10 2 2 9 9 8 8
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Union strength Total: 56
8 8 18 18 12 12 2 2 16 16
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Government radicalism Total: 53
13 13 13 13 11 11 12 12 4 4
Physici threw 5 20-faced dice. Reason: Government strength Total: 55
14 14 11 11 20 20 3 3 7 7
 
This would make the constitution have no enforcement power, and a single Congress could do anything they want.
...The idea behind the US constitution is to serve as a sort of bedrock for the system, establishing lines that shouldn't be crossed. Which is part of why the US Constitution is rather unique IRL, being designed to be an unchanging document other than tacked on amendments while most other nations rewrite it every so often to keep up with the times.

As far as no checks on congress...
It can be all too easy for demagogies to manipulate people into acting against their own interest. After all, a favored tactic of any oppressive govt is always to control the narrative, hence why the USA both had something to protect the freedom of the press, and violated that same thing quite a bit. Which may be a very real problem that should be considered. I mean, shouldn't we at least have a 'bill of unalienable rights' of sorts to at least have something?
 
The Supreme Court has never actually functioned to check a populist leader, not unless the rest of the government is already on their side. See the case of Worcester v. Georgia which established the doctrine of tribal sovereignty and in a attempt to reverse their previous decisions consequences on the tribes. That did absolutely nothing to help protect the Cherokee nation from being forced to sign a removal treaty with the courts complete inability to enforce its ruling on Georgia and Andrew Jacksons government pursuing the removal treaty at the same time. (It also happens to show the constant trend of the South threatening succession every time they don't get what they want exactly how they want it.)
 
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Constitution shall not be a shackle to the past, to be worshiped, but a living, changing thing.

[][review] Congressional supremacy, there are no checks or balances on the will of the people
 
[][dissolve] The national Congress does not have the right to dissolve a provincial or commune government if it decides it acted illegally.
[][review] Congressional supremacy, there are no checks or balances on the will of the people.
[][party] Have no recognized political parties, all candidates must individually get ballot access.
[][ballot] An individual gets ballot access with 1% of eligible voters in a district as signatures.

Each of these options feels like they should be a no-brainer for any self-professed anarchist.
 
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[][dissolve] The national Congress has the full right to dissolve a provincial or commune government if it decides it acted illegally.
-[] On a three-fifths majority rather than a simple majority
[][review] Congressional supremacy, there are no checks or balances on the will of the people.
[][party] Have no recognized political parties, all candidates must individually get ballot access.
[][ballot] An individual gets ballot access with 1% of eligible voters in a district as signatures.

A higher bar to dissolving a provincial or commune government should ensure that it requires doing something patently fucked.

Also, near-unalterable-constitutions were, even in the 18th century, considered a tool of reactionary power, and were intended as such at the time.
 
[][dissolve] The national Congress does not have the right to dissolve a provincial or commune government if it decides it acted illegally.
[][review] Congressional supremacy, there are no checks or balances on the will of the people.
[][party] Have no recognized political parties, all candidates must individually get ballot access.
[][ballot] An individual gets ballot access with 1% of eligible voters in a district as signatures.

Long live Mother Anarchy!
 
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